Covid-19 4.0

[dinglefritz]

You are pathetic. People like you are the real problem, and are far more reprehensible than Trump. Grow the hell up.

And why would it be violence to all Asians when he said “Chinese?” You do realize that not all “Asians” are Chinese, don’t you? Someone as “woke” as you would never make such a generalizing and insensitive statement about Chinese people. Would you?

I wouldn't go so far as to say pathetic. I would say indoctrinated by the media. My college aged Ivy League kid cops the same attitude. It's sad. People need to get upset about things that really matter. IF I knew a Chinese American with a business in town who needed help right now I would be the first one to their door to help. They guy I talked about in another thread where I said I was going to go buy a bunch of gift cards to help him out is Hispanic. He's a legal Mexican immigrant who came here as a child but I'm told it's dehumanizing to call him a Mexican American.

 

[dinglefritz]

From what I can tell, we are getting most or all of the reagent from Qiagen, a German company with one of its manufacturing plants in Maryland. They say that they have ramped up production with 24/7 shifts at all three plants.
https://corporate.qiagen.com/newsroom/press-releases/2020/20200317_capacity_increase

It's interesting that Germany has seemed to not have any shortage of reagents now isn't it?

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Wrong. This is the most recent Chinese Corona virus. Just like the Spanish Flu took off in Spain. We have the Chinese and their filthy "wet markets" and habit of slaughtering bats and snakes for food to blame for this apparently. Anybody who wants to take issue with this being called the Chinese Flu or the Kung Flu needs to get a reality check.

Dont you need to have a pig,or a cross animal infection? Then humans can get it?

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

It's interesting that Germany has seemed to not have any shortage of reagents now isn't it?

Tribalism, its time the rest of our tribe enter the huts and sit down.

 

[dinglefritz]

Dont you need to have a pig,or a cross animal infection? Then humans can get it?

I don't think so. One theory is that it came from the slaughter of bats in the wet market. Personally I still haven't ruled out that this accidentally came out of that biological weapons facility in Wuhan. I know our government has discounted that and called it a conspiracy theory but I don't trust the Chinese.

 

[dinglefritz]

Tribalism, its time the rest of our tribe enter the huts and sit down.

It's what happens when you lose control of your supply chain of critical items. IF we were to have a war with China, we would be screwed.

 

[mwulf]

Wrong. This is the most recent Chinese Corona virus. Just like the Spanish Flu took off in Spain. We have the Chinese and their filthy "wet markets" and habit of slaughtering bats and snakes for food to blame for this apparently. Anybody who wants to take issue with this being called the Chinese Flu or the Kung Flu needs to get a reality check.

Spanish flu was traced back to Kansas

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I don't think so. One theory is that it came from the slaughter of bats in the wet market. Personally I still haven't ruled out that this accidentally came out of that biological weapons facility in Wuhan. I know our government has discounted that and called it a conspiracy theory but I don't trust the Chinese.

I understood to cross from animal to human, you need certain animals of the same charateristics?
In other words, where a pig has duo characteristics, some like man, some like animals, a pig could get it from another animal,and we could get it from the pig.

Must have misunderstood.

Now, the theory, see, this is only a theory,not science fact, in theory, those working at the Wuhan chem lab sold the dead animals from it to certain folks at the market.
Maybe they were more misunderstanding than myself?

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Spanish flu was traced back to Kansas

Too late, its already labeled and we now can't stop hating the Spaniards. Doomed to hate them, all because of a label that means nothing other than where they actually reported it during the war, where the other countries hid it from the enemy.

Spain was one of only a few major European countries to remain neutral during World War I. Unlike in the Allied and Central Powers nations, where wartime censors suppressed news of the flu to avoid affecting morale, the Spanish media was free to report on it in gory detail.

 

[dinglefritz]

Spanish flu was traced back to Kansas

F'n Jayhawks. I knew I didn't like them. I was waiting for somebody to try to pin it on the U.S. ACTUALLY it likely didn't come from the U.S. It was first DIAGNOSED in a service member at a military base in Kansas but many believe it started in Spain, China, or Britain and was brought back to the U.S. Wikipedia says that it was named the Spanish flu because Spain didn't participate in WWI and didn't have media censorship. Boy if I was Spain I would really be pissed.

 

[dinglefritz]

I understood to cross from animal to human, you need certain animals of the same charateristics?
In other words, where a pig has duo characteristics, some like man, some like animals, a pig could get it from another animal,and we could get it from the pig.

Must have misunderstood.

Now, the theory, see, this is only a theory,not science fact, in theory, those working at the Wuhan chem lab sold the dead animals from it to certain folks at the market.
Maybe they were more misunderstanding than myself?

A pig is a warm blooded mammal. A human is a warm blooded mammal. A bat is a warm blooded mammal. We're all animals. A pig is no more closely related to a human than a bat is.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

A pig is a warm blooded mammal. A human is a warm blooded mammal. A bat is a warm blooded mammal. We're all animals. A pig is no more closely related to a human than a bat is.

I believe it has something to do with why certain diseases we get from pigs, but not other animals.
I'll cut n paste
Here @dinglefritz
Mutations are going to happen. There are a lot of factors in play here. The influenza virus (orthomyxoviruses) is made up of 8 segments of RNA. When an infection occurs where multiple strains of influenza are around there is the possibility of segment swapping, this leads to wholesale changes taking place. This is a major reason for the pandemic potential of the flu. This is a pretty neat thing to happen. Birds have one version of the influenza, Humans have another. Pretty hard for the mixtures of segments to occur. However, pigs have both versions. So in the event the bird flu and human flu are active in the same region and with swine confinement facilities you have the perfect storm and the potential for these large changes. This is referred to as "genetic shift"

 

[Lincoln100]

I wouldn't go so far as to say pathetic. I would say indoctrinated by the media. My college aged Ivy League kid cops the same attitude. It's sad. People need to get upset about things that really matter. IF I knew a Chinese American with a business in town who needed help right now I would be the first one to their door to help. They guy I talked about in another thread where I said I was going to go buy a bunch of gift cards to help him out is Hispanic. He's a legal Mexican immigrant who came here as a child but I'm told it's dehumanizing to call him a Mexican American.

I would, and did. I'll say it again, it's pathetic. And to stereotype the Chinese as Asian, or vice versa, shows just how xenophobic, hateful, and insensitive Jib is. What a complete clown.

 

[RedMyMind]

I would, and did. I'll say it again, it's pathetic. And to stereotype the Chinese as Asian, or vice versa, shows just how xenophobic, hateful, and insensitive Jib is. What a complete clown.

East Asia is very xenophobic

 

[Lincoln100]

East Asia is very xenophobic

No chance. Only Trump . . . and Jib.

 

[RedMyMind]

No chance. Only Trump . . . and Jib.

It's pretty obvious that Trump hates the Chinese government, and for good reason. Anything more is a stretch.

 

[huskerfan66]

I don't think so. One theory is that it came from the slaughter of bats in the wet market. Personally I still haven't ruled out that this accidentally came out of that biological weapons facility in Wuhan. I know our government has discounted that and called it a conspiracy theory but I don't trust the Chinese.

I tend to agree with this. Read between the lines I think that's why Cheetos refers to it as the China virus. Also why they tried to blame the US military

 

[huskerfan66]

I believe it has something to do with why certain diseases we get from pigs, but not other animals.
I'll cut n paste
Here @dinglefritz
Mutations are going to happen. There are a lot of factors in play here. The influenza virus (orthomyxoviruses) is made up of 8 segments of RNA. When an infection occurs where multiple strains of influenza are around there is the possibility of segment swapping, this leads to wholesale changes taking place. This is a major reason for the pandemic potential of the flu. This is a pretty neat thing to happen. Birds have one version of the influenza, Humans have another. Pretty hard for the mixtures of segments to occur. However, pigs have both versions. So in the event the bird flu and human flu are active in the same region and with swine confinement facilities you have the perfect storm and the potential for these large changes. This is referred to as "genetic shift"

Don't buy anything from Smithfield. Chinese company

 

[Charlie Marlow]

So world leaders trading childish barbs in midst of a global crisis? good times.

 

[jlb321]

I would, and did. I'll say it again, it's pathetic. And to stereotype the Chinese as Asian, or vice versa, shows just how xenophobic, hateful, and insensitive Jib is. What a complete clown.

You do realize China is on the continent of Asia. Inhabitants of Asia are often referred to as Asian.

Ethiopia is on the continent of Africa. Inhabitants of Africa are often referred to as African.

Queensland is in Australia. Inhabitants of Australia are referred to as Australian,

Germany is in Europe. Inhabitants of Europe are called European.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

You do realize China is on the continent of Asia. Inhabitants of Asia are often referred to as Asian.

Ethiopia is on the continent of Africa. Inhabitants of Africa are often referred to as African.

Queensland is in Australia. Inhabitants of Australia are referred to as Australian,

Germany is in Europe. Inhabitants of Europe are called European.

So, it was the european flu? Or the african virus?
Or, the american tick disease?

Granularity in meaning distorts common usage and understanding. You prefer to use a quickly made up name, after a name was already given, so dont offend those who were there first.

 

[Lincoln100]

You do realize China is on the continent of Asia. Inhabitants of Asia are often referred to as Asian.

Ethiopia is on the continent of Africa. Inhabitants of Africa are often referred to as African.

Queensland is in Australia. Inhabitants of Australia are referred to as Australian,

Germany is in Europe. Inhabitants of Europe are called European.

That was a fairly weak effort - what you did here does nothing to explain why a reference to "Chinese" would incite violence against "Asians." Take your time.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

You do realize China is on the continent of Asia. Inhabitants of Asia are often referred to as Asian.

Ethiopia is on the continent of Africa. Inhabitants of Africa are often referred to as African.

Queensland is in Australia. Inhabitants of Australia are referred to as Australian,

Germany is in Europe. Inhabitants of Europe are called European.

Do you use the term mers when speaking of that virus?

 

[dinglefritz]

I believe it has something to do with why certain diseases we get from pigs, but not other animals.
I'll cut n paste
Here @dinglefritz
Mutations are going to happen. There are a lot of factors in play here. The influenza virus (orthomyxoviruses) is made up of 8 segments of RNA. When an infection occurs where multiple strains of influenza are around there is the possibility of segment swapping, this leads to wholesale changes taking place. This is a major reason for the pandemic potential of the flu. This is a pretty neat thing to happen. Birds have one version of the influenza, Humans have another. Pretty hard for the mixtures of segments to occur. However, pigs have both versions. So in the event the bird flu and human flu are active in the same region and with swine confinement facilities you have the perfect storm and the potential for these large changes. This is referred to as "genetic shift"

Um no. That's not exactly correct. One virus will infect humans and most cloven hooved animals but not pigs and horses. Another will infect pigs but not other cloven hooved animals. One will infect only pigs and horses and humans. Another will infect birds, pigs and whatever but not humans. It is on a virus by virus deal. Bats carry supposedly over a thousand different bat Corona viruses which potentially could jump to humans and I have never read in any scientific journal that it requires an intermediate host such as the pig. Pigs do tend to be susceptible to several zoonotic diseases and humans do work in close proximity to them often (my wife says she lives with a pig) so the chance that a pig could pass something to humans is there. That doesn't mean that the pig was required as an intermediate host. Your science sounds like that something that came out of a PETA article.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Um no. That's not exactly correct. One virus will infect humans and most cloven hooved animals but not pigs and horses. Another will infect pigs but not other cloven hooved animals. One will infect only pigs and horses and humans. Another will infect birds, pigs and whatever but not humans. It is on a virus by virus deal. Bats carry supposedly over a thousand different bat Corona viruses which potentially could jump to humans and I have never read in any scientific journal that it requires an intermediate host such as the pig. Pigs do tend to be susceptible to several zoonotic diseases and humans do work in close proximity to them often (my wife says she lives with a pig) so the chance that a pig could pass something to humans is there. That doesn't mean that the pig was required as an intermediate host. Your science sounds like that something that came out of a PETA article.

Thats not what this is saying though. At all.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/change.htm

One way influenza viruses change is called “antigenic drift.” These are small changes (or mutations) in the genes of influenza viruses that can lead to changes in the surface proteins of the virus: HA (hemagglutinin) and NA (neuraminidase). The HA and NA surface proteins of influenza viruses are “antigens,” which means they are recognized by the immune system and are capable of triggering an immune response, including production of antibodies that can block infection. The changes associated with antigenic drift happen continually over time as the virus replicates. Most flu shots are designed to target an influenza virus’ HA surface proteins/antigens. The nasal spray flu vaccine (LAIV) targets both the HA and NA of an influenza virus.
Looks like this one Below

Antigenic Shift
The other type of change is called “antigenic shift.” Antigenic shift is an abrupt, major change in an influenza A virus, resulting in new HA and/or new HA and NA proteins in influenza viruses that infect humans. Shift can result in a new influenza A subtype in humans. One way shift can happen is when an influenza virus from an animal population gains the ability to infect humans. Such animal-origin viruses can contain an HA or HA/NA combination that is so different from the same subtype in humans that most people do not have immunity to the new (e.g., novel) virus. Such a “shift” occurred in the spring of 2009, when an H1N1 virus with genes from North American Swine, Eurasian Swine, humans and birds emerged to infect people and quickly spread, causing a pandemic. When shift happens, most people have little or no immunity against the new virus.

 

[jrhuskerdad]

I don't think so. One theory is that it came from the slaughter of bats in the wet market. Personally I still haven't ruled out that this accidentally came out of that biological weapons facility in Wuhan. I know our government has discounted that and called it a conspiracy theory but I don't trust the Chinese.

I think we can rule out an accidental escape: The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2

"SARS-CoV-2 is the seventh coronavirus known to infect humans; SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 can cause severe disease, whereas HKU1, NL63, OC43 and 229E are associated with mild symptoms6. Here we review what can be deduced about the origin of SARS-CoV-2 from comparative analysis of genomic data. We offer a perspective on the notable features of the SARS-CoV-2 genome and discuss scenarios by which they could have arisen. Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus."

This is from scientists at reputable institutions in the US and UK.

 

[huskerfan66]

You do realize China is on the continent of Asia. Inhabitants of Asia are often referred to as Asian.

Ethiopia is on the continent of Africa. Inhabitants of Africa are often referred to as African.

Queensland is in Australia. Inhabitants of Australia are referred to as Australian,

Germany is in Europe. Inhabitants of Europe are called European.

Well we can't use Asian flu because it's already been used

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I think we can rule out an accidental escape: The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2

"SARS-CoV-2 is the seventh coronavirus known to infect humans; SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 can cause severe disease, whereas HKU1, NL63, OC43 and 229E are associated with mild symptoms6. Here we review what can be deduced about the origin of SARS-CoV-2 from comparative analysis of genomic data. We offer a perspective on the notable features of the SARS-CoV-2 genome and discuss scenarios by which they could have arisen. Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus."

This is from scientists at reputable institutions in the US and UK.

Still could be true.
The full story went, bats were collected that had the virus, and were sold at market. By someone from the lab.
Or, a naturally occuring one, but kept for studies.

Unless you're a spelunker and had come across these particular bats, everyone was safe, or, so the story goes.

 

[jrhuskerdad]

Still could be true.
The full story went, bats were collected that had the virus, and were sold at market. By someone from the lab.
Or, a naturally occuring one, but kept for studies.

Unless you're a spelunker and had come across these particular bats, everyone was safe, or, so the story goes.

Or maybe aliens planted it

 

[huskerfan66]

Or maybe aliens planted it

Crap. A theory that I never considered.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Or maybe aliens planted it

Point is, they were right, way ahead of knowing it was natually occuring, and that it came from animals, was novel and likely pandemic.
I heard this before any other country had one case, so, very early on.

I would rack it up under one hecka coinkydink, but if some think aliens, I wont stop them from doing so.

 

[jrhuskerdad]

Crap. A theory that I never considered.

 

[dinglefritz]

Thats not what this is saying though. At all.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/change.htm

One way influenza viruses change is called “antigenic drift.” These are small changes (or mutations) in the genes of influenza viruses that can lead to changes in the surface proteins of the virus: HA (hemagglutinin) and NA (neuraminidase). The HA and NA surface proteins of influenza viruses are “antigens,” which means they are recognized by the immune system and are capable of triggering an immune response, including production of antibodies that can block infection. The changes associated with antigenic drift happen continually over time as the virus replicates. Most flu shots are designed to target an influenza virus’ HA surface proteins/antigens. The nasal spray flu vaccine (LAIV) targets both the HA and NA of an influenza virus.
Looks like this one Below

Antigenic Shift
The other type of change is called “antigenic shift.” Antigenic shift is an abrupt, major change in an influenza A virus, resulting in new HA and/or new HA and NA proteins in influenza viruses that infect humans. Shift can result in a new influenza A subtype in humans. One way shift can happen is when an influenza virus from an animal population gains the ability to infect humans. Such animal-origin viruses can contain an HA or HA/NA combination that is so different from the same subtype in humans that most people do not have immunity to the new (e.g., novel) virus. Such a “shift” occurred in the spring of 2009, when an H1N1 virus with genes from North American Swine, Eurasian Swine, humans and birds emerged to infect people and quickly spread, causing a pandemic. When shift happens, most people have little or no immunity against the new virus.

That is obviously a correct statement from the CDC but that statement does not support the your original premise that pigs were somehow a necessary intermediate host. Trust me. I understand antigenic shift and drift. I've dealt with it for 35 years. No doubt a virus that occurred in bats (assuming it's correct that that is where it came from) changed in some form to allow it to infect humans. Apparently capsular proteins mutated allowing it to attach to and replicate in human cells. I haven't read anywhere that pigs had anything to do with that.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Middle row,second from right

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Your

That is obviously a correct statement from the CDC but that statement does not support the your original premise that pigs were somehow a necessary intermediate host. Trust me. I understand antigenic shift and drift. I've dealt with it for 35 years. No doubt a virus that occurred in bats (assuming it's correct that that is where it came from) changed in some form to allow it to infect humans. Apparently capsular proteins mutated allowing it to attach to and replicate in human cells. I haven't read anywhere that pigs had anything to do with that.

But a novel happens your way? The way both were explained, it was a combination that allowed for it.

So, your saying this could just mutate by itself in a bat to this level?
This wouldnt make it novel though, would it?

 

[dinglefritz]

I think we can rule out an accidental escape: The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2

"SARS-CoV-2 is the seventh coronavirus known to infect humans; SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 can cause severe disease, whereas HKU1, NL63, OC43 and 229E are associated with mild symptoms6. Here we review what can be deduced about the origin of SARS-CoV-2 from comparative analysis of genomic data. We offer a perspective on the notable features of the SARS-CoV-2 genome and discuss scenarios by which they could have arisen. Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus."

This is from scientists at reputable institutions in the US and UK.

As I said, I don't trust China. I have to agree that it is most likely this was a mutation of a wild virus which normally infects bats. That said, their statement says that they are "offering scenarios by which it could have arisen". No doubt it "could" arise by a random mutation in the wild. I don't buy that they irrefutably could tell a random mutation from one developed in a lab. They're obviously more qualified than me to speak on the subject unless they receive research dollars from a Chinese corporation.

 

[dinglefritz]

But a novel happens your way? The way both were explained, it was a combination that allowed for it.

So, your saying this could just mutate by itself in a bat to this level?
This wouldnt make it novel though, would it?

Novel just means new or different. Yes it could mutate in a bat and jump straight to humans or in a rat or snake or pig for that matter. Hell bovine, feline or canine corona viruses could theoretically mutate and jump to humans. It would be very very very rare and would be very novel. There are vaccines in all of those species for their own specific viruses. It could in fact mutate in a bat and become virulent in both pigs and humans at the same time.

 

[Mack In Motion]

As I said, I don't trust China. I have to agree that it is most likely this was a mutation of a wild virus which normally infects bats. That said, their statement says that they are "offering scenarios by which it could have arisen". No doubt it "could" arise by a random mutation in the wild. I don't buy that they irrefutably could tell a random mutation from one developed in a lab. They're obviously more qualified than me to speak on the subject unless they receive research dollars from a Chinese corporation.

The Chinese seem to think the source was engineered via the military (Someone else's military, of course) and not originating in a bat:

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian:

"It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan."

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Novel just means new or different. Yes it could mutate in a bat and jump straight to humans or in a rat or snake or pig for that matter. Hell bovine, feline or canine corona viruses could theoretically mutate and jump to humans. It would be very very very rare and would be very novel. There are vaccines in all of those species for their own specific viruses. It could in fact mutate in a bat and become virulent in both pigs and humans at the same time.

Ok
But new is better than old. Old virus' dont start pandemics, so new is new to our immune systems, I got that part, and meant it that way.
The cdc article I pointed to referred to pandemic with novel,or new with no or rare immunities.
So, the rna thing is just bunk then? As it wouldnt need another animals virus to create a novel one?
But within the current virus in a given animal, it can self mutate and cross species? No other virus needed?
Maybe thats a better question.

 

[dinglefritz]

Ok
But new is better than old. Old virus' dont start pandemics, so new is new to our immune systems, I got that part, and meant it that way.
The cdc article I pointed to referred to pandemic with novel,or new with no or rare immunities.
So, the rna thing is just bunk then? As it wouldnt need another animals virus to create a novel one?
But within the current virus in a given animal, it can self mutate and cross species? No other virus needed?
Maybe thats a better question.

Sure. Mutations happen in nature all the time. Basic genetics. When you have a thousand viruses present in millions of bats in China a change in a capsular protein of one of those viruses occurring randomly could make it virulent to a human. It's seems like it would be awfully coincidental that this has happened in China now a couple of times. Corona virus vaccines in animals seem to remain pretty effective for many years without much antigenic drift. What does tend to happen is a new virus maybe from a new source will mutate and cause a new syndrome in an animal species which has a vaccine for an older CV.