Covid-19 4.0

[jrhuskerdad]

Those people (the ones inciting violence against against those in red hats) are equally reprehensible.

Not sure why one shitty act should be used to justify another.

It has a name, actually: "tu quoque" ("whataboutism"). It's a logical fallacy. Regardless of whether the original accuser is also guilty of the said offense has no bearing on the truth value of the original accusation.

It's a tactic perfected by communists...

"The association of whataboutism with the Soviet Union began during the Cold War. As the regimes of Josef Stalin and his successors were criticized by the West for human rights atrocities, the Soviet propaganda machine would be ready with a comeback alleging atrocities of equal reprehensibility for which the West was guilty."

Merriam-Webster

 

[jrhuskerdad]

By all means let's just pretend CNN and liberals weren't calling it "the wuhan virus" and "China's coronavirus" around the clock for months...

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Well spotted, comrade.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

By all means let's just pretend CNN and liberals weren't calling it "the wuhan virus" and "China's coronavirus" around the clock for months...

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OMG.

 

[jlb321]

By all means let's just pretend CNN and liberals weren't calling it "the wuhan virus" and "China's coronavirus" around the clock for months...

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May I ask where I ever stated that CNN or the “liberals”didn’t use that term .. please link. I said that type of language, in today’s environment, carries the risk of emboldening irrational people and caution should be used.

people are understandably supercharged right now .... we have been told to avoid wearing hospital scrubs out the hospital as there has been violence because some believe the medical community is responsible for this lockdown situation

 

[dinglefritz]

When looking at S Korea and china and "active cases" its looking like after the numbers go past 500 it takes around 30 days for the virus to peak, level out, and start trending down. If it hold true Italy should start trending down in the next 7 days or so. Which looking at their numbers seems hard to believe. The US around April 8th.

I really don't think it will peak that quickly here. I've been saying for several weeks that we'll know more by May 1. IMO we've slowed it down and that delays your peak number of cases several weeks at least. That's what happened in St.Louis versus Phillie back in 1918. S. Korea was ABLE to be much more aggressive with their approach than we have been.

 

[dinglefritz]

Already happening. Sprint to see who gets there first

The problem isn't in making the vaccine. We're there. The problem is in getting the FDA to approve it for emergency use without mind numbing ridiculous trials that take a year or more.

 

[ThereIsNoPlace]

It has a name, actually: "tu quoque" ("whataboutism"). It's a logical fallacy. Regardless of whether the original accuser is also guilty of the said offense has no bearing on the truth value of the original accusation.

It's a tactic perfected by communists...

"The association of whataboutism with the Soviet Union began during the Cold War. As the regimes of Josef Stalin and his successors were criticized by the West for human rights atrocities, the Soviet propaganda machine would be ready with a comeback alleging atrocities of equal reprehensibility for which the West was guilty."

Merriam-Webster

You just think you it all, don't ya peter fonda?

 

[headcard]

The problem isn't in making the vaccine. We're there. The problem is in getting the FDA to approve it for emergency use without mind numbing ridiculous trials that take a year or more.

Absolutely

 

[ThereIsNoPlace]

We just received a shipment of beef jerky at the front door. I kicked it into the foyer, sprayed it with Lysol on all 4 sides. Now, the real challenge is letting it sit there for 24-48 hours before consuming. I'll probably spray the inside bags too. Crap, this sucks.

 

[HuskerHusaria]

May I ask where I ever stated that CNN or the “liberals”didn’t use that term .. please link. I said that type of language, in today’s environment, carries the risk of emboldening irrational people and caution should be used.

people are understandably supercharged right now .... we have been told to avoid wearing hospital scrubs out the hospital as there has been violence because some the medical community is responsible for this lockdown situation

Link to me where I accused you personally of it? I'm going after your comments accusing the president of reprehensible behavior and implying that he is inciting racial violence.

My point is that liberals have been calling it the Chinese virus 24/7 for months. Now, Trump comes out and say it once and suddenly liberals act like they are white knights. Whom did the most damage to the Asian community thus far, hmm?

Racial violence against asians has been happening before Trump ever said it.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

May I ask where I ever stated that CNN or the “liberals”didn’t use that term .. please link. I said that type of language, in today’s environment, carries the risk of emboldening irrational people and caution should be used.

people are understandably supercharged right now .... we have been told to avoid wearing hospital scrubs out the hospital as there has been violence because some believe the medical community is responsible for this lockdown situation

Irrational people who act on that irrational thought need to be punished,period. No bullies here, in action, or thought. I refuse to raise them,slap them in jail,period.
They need safe places, fine, just not in sight.
They don't like certain words,fine,they can plug their ears.

They need to grow the hell up,period.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

The problem isn't in making the vaccine. We're there. The problem is in getting the FDA to approve it for emergency use without mind numbing ridiculous trials that take a year or more.

New attitudes create new approaches. No ones going to sit on this.

 

[Lincoln100]

May I ask where I ever stated that CNN or the “liberals”didn’t use that term .. please link. I said that type of language, in today’s environment, carries the risk of emboldening irrational people and caution should be used.

people are understandably supercharged right now .... we have been told to avoid wearing hospital scrubs out the hospital as there has been violence because some believe the medical community is responsible for this lockdown situation

How shriveled up is your nut sack? Does the sight of your shadow scare the holy hell out of you? As sad as it is that you think the way you do, what is even more astonishing is your willingness to post your thoughts. How scared are you, every day of your life? I feel really bad for you.

 

[Reditus]

Here is something that is interesting that I think research folks should pursue to figure the origins of the virus.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200221-coronavirus-the-harmful-hunt-for-covid-19s-patient-zero

So in the article above they say that this patient was incapable of visiting the market however, I have read in other articles that he had suffered a stroke.

Well it turns out that a traditional chinese medicine remedy involves pangolin scales for treating stroke patients. It has been speculated that the pangolins are the bridge mammal between infected bats and people. https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-pangolins-intermediary-host-2020-2?op=1

This is the remedy.
http://www.chineseherbshealing.com/pangolin-chuan-shan-jia/
Chen Tong Gao
Chen Tong Gao comes from San Yin Fang (Three Causes Formulas). This formula treats a lack of sensation or movement in one or both hands or feet in stroke. The herbs include Chuan Shan Jia (Chinese pangolin scale), Hong Hai Ge (Red Sea Clams), and Chuan Wu (Radix Aconiti Carmichaeli).

They need to find out if this remedy was used for this person. The folks that made the remedy or brought it to him probably had the virus. It's speculation but it makes sense.

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

Damn libruls.

 

[dinglefritz]

New attitudes create new approaches. No ones going to sit on this.

The problem is that the message we're getting from the CDC and FDA is the same tired crap about being sure the vaccine is safe and effective. Who gives a sh## anymore if it's safe and effective if the virus has already run all the way through the country. I have ZERO doubt that a subunit CV vaccine is safe. NONE. We've been doing this in animals for decades. and no matter what the antigen is we'll have more adverse reactions to the adjuvant used in the vaccine than we will the antigen. IF we give the vaccine to thousands of healthcare workers and it was only 50% effective at keeping them from getting sick what did we lose? Meanwhile you can be doing your studies with actual wild virus challenges going on and keep trying to improve on the vaccine.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

The problem is that the message we're getting from the CDC and FDA is the same tired crap about being sure the vaccine is safe and effective. Who gives a sh## anymore if it's safe and effective if the virus has already run all the way through the country. I have ZERO doubt that a subunit CV vaccine is safe. NONE. We've been doing this in animals for decades. and no matter what the antigen is we'll have more adverse reactions to the adjuvant used in the vaccine than we will the antigen. IF we give the vaccine to thousands of healthcare workers and it was only 50% effective at keeping them from getting sick what did we lose? Meanwhile you can be doing your studies with actual wild virus challenges going on and keep trying to improve on the vaccine.

In my mind, it's a political stance, making others push them off the peak, cya and everything. I haven't seen anything by them where they may try to hedge, and maybe I've missed this, but if they are full steam ahead and destroy the planets economy, they don't deserve to sit on any peak.

You simply can't stick to do no harm, when doind no harm might be the most harmful thing done, or seperate their ideals as being pure, the rest politics, where they seperate themselves, holding themselves to that supposed higher ideal.

 

[dinglefritz]

HOLY SCHNIKES. Abbott Labs is shipping 150,000 test kits out to existing customers in 18 states after getting emergency federal approval for their test and will ramp up their production to a million test kits per week by the end of march.

 

[jrhuskerdad]

HOLY SCHNIKES. Abbott Labs is shipping 150,000 test kits out to existing customers in 18 states after getting emergency federal approval for their test and will ramp up their production to a million test kits per week by the end of march.

So in 330 weeks everyone can get a test.

 

[dinglefritz]

So in 330 weeks everyone can get a test.

Well considering that my state was completely out of test reagents until yesterday everything helps. That's even considering you have to be symptomatic and have a fever to get a test. Their immediate shipping of 150 thousand tests is going to help the hot spots dramatically. I don't think Abbott is the only company working on getting test kits and reagents out either so it will end up being a lot more than a million/week is my guess.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

HOLY SCHNIKES. Abbott Labs is shipping 150,000 test kits out to existing customers in 18 states after getting emergency federal approval for their test and will ramp up their production to a million test kits per week by the end of march.

Nice!! I'd heard of this, some things are being fast tracked!

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Well considering that my state was completely out of test reagents until yesterday everything helps. That's even considering you have to be symptomatic and have a fever to get a test. Their immediate shipping of 150 thousand tests is going to help the hot spots dramatically.

Is there a possibility say Abbott can use different reagents, or, is the test kits using the same approach on the front end, making the back end,needing those reagents necessary, just trying to think outside the box.

Or, it wouldn't make a difference where or how a test gets its samples?

 

[jrhuskerdad]

Well considering that my state was completely out of test reagents until yesterday everything helps. That's even considering you have to be symptomatic and have a fever to get a test. Their immediate shipping of 150 thousand tests is going to help the hot spots dramatically.

My cynicism is outweighing my enthusiasm right now. Happy to see this level of production but it’s not near what we will need. We will need a lot of testing to achieve the surveillance we need.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

My cynicism is outweighing my enthusiasm right now. Happy to see this level of production but it’s not near what we will need. We will need a lot of testing to achieve the surveillance we need.

Abbott labs are but one producer, if memory serves, this is all new to the numbers from other manus already approved, I may be wrong.

 

[jrhuskerdad]

Abbott labs are but one producer, if memory serves, this is all new to the numbers from other manus already approved, I may be wrong.

Is this producing and analyzing or just producing reagents?

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Is this producing and analyzing or just producing reagents?

No reagents, just collecting afaik
Thats why I asked, if this included reagents and ready to go.

 

[dinglefritz]

Is there a possibility say Abbott can use different reagents, or, is the test kits using the same approach on the front end, making the back end,needing those reagents necessary, just trying to think outside the box.

Or, it wouldn't make a difference where or how a test gets its samples?

Their test uses their own proprietary lab system. I don't remember what the name is. I'm sure they have their own set of specific reagents which would probably be different from another company's test.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Their test uses their own proprietary lab system. I don't remember what the name is. I'm sure they have their own set of specific reagents which would probably be different from another company's test.

Now theres some good news. If supplies are good, Abbott can ramp up production. You dont want to make millions only to be shut down.

 

[jrhuskerdad]

Now theres some good news. If supplies are good, Abbott can ramp up production. You dont want to make millions only to be shut down.

Yeah, these all appear to be based on qPCR analyses which create huge bottlenecks to how fast samples are processed.

 

[dinglefritz]

Yeah, these all appear to be based on qPCR analyses which create huge bottlenecks to how fast samples are processed.

Every veterinary diagnostic lab in he country has the ability to run PCR testing. It would seem logical to get them involved in testing samples. That said, there's apparently way more going on with making tests available than just the Abbott announcement. As I've been saying for a 2 weeks, the CDC has been the problem starting with them first insisting on following their protocol which required them to design the test. Then after a week it was obvious that their test was faulty. Apparently that is what led to the false positive result from a Crofton NE kid who had attended the girl's state tournament.

 

[dinglefritz]

Yeah, these all appear to be based on qPCR analyses which create huge bottlenecks to how fast samples are processed.

Abbott's m2000 RealTime system literature says that "it is capable of running high volume of tests" thus helping to solve the test shortage problem.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Here's a list of some regs that are gone now

Suspended federal rules and regulations:

FDA allows state leeway in virus testing

"The FDA will allow states to take responsibility for tests developed and used by laboratories within their borders. The labs will not have to pursue Emergency Use Authorization from the agency, an emergency clearance that is normally required." - STAT News (3/16/20)

FDA loosens regulations on distribution of newly developed tests

"Under certain circumstances, the agency will not object to any manufacturers that distribute newly developed tests before the FDA grants emergency clearance, and a similar stance will be taken toward labs that use these new tests." - STAT News (3/16/20)

DOT provides hours-of-service regulatory relief to commercial vehicle drivers transporting emergency relief

"This deregulatory action will allow greater flexibility for truck drivers transporting goods such as necessary medical supplies, testing equipment, hand sanitizer, disinfectants and food required for emergency restocking of stores." - Americans for Tax Reform (3/16/20)

Not all test kits required to be sent to a CDC lab

"The administration removed a regulation that required all test kits to be sent to a CDC lab to be confirmed by federal authorities, a process that extended the wait times for patients to be notified about their results." - Washington Examiner (3/13/20)

Allowance of licensed health care professionals to work in a different state from which they are licensed

The "requirements that physicians or other health care professionals hold licenses in the State in which they provide services, if they have an equivalent license from another State (and are not affirmatively barred from practice in that State or any State a part of which is included in the emergency area)" are being waived. - U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (3/13/20)

TSA allowing hand sanitizer containers up to 12 ounces

"TSA is allowing passengers to bring liquid hand sanitizer containers up to 12 ounces in carry-on bags until further notice. Passengers can expect that these containers larger than the standard allowance of 3.4 ounces of liquids permitted through a checkpoint will need to be screened separately..." - Transportation Security Administration (3/13/20)

Allowing patients to have access and control over their medical data by loosening HIPAA requirements

"In order to allow patients to more easily communicate with their providers, the Administration loosened the HIPAA requirements surrounding telemedicine. This important change allows doctors to see patients via commonly used apps like Facetime and Skype that were previously non-HIPAA compliant." - Americans for Tax Reform (3/17/20)

Allowing out-of-state doctors to treat patients through telehealth

"HHS Secretary Alex Azar waive certain laws to expand the use of telehealth, which public health experts say can help reduce risk of transmission. The new order appears to let Azar waive federal licensing requirements so out-of-state doctors can treat patients virtually in states with the greatest need." - Politico (3/13/20)

Easing restrictions on online courses at colleges and universities

The Department of Education has moved to ease rules on colleges and universities who are shifting their classes online. There are a collection of rules being eased, not enforced. - Office of Postsecondary Education (3/5/20)

Allowing distilled spirits permittees (DSPs) to produce hand sanitizer

"Due to the Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, the Acting Administrator of the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) has found that it is necessary or desirable to waive provisions of internal revenue law with regard to distilled spirits, and therefore is providing certain exemptions and authorizations to distilled spirits permittees who wish to produce ethanol-based hand sanitizers to address the demand for such products during this emergency." - Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (3/18/20)
https://www.atr.org/rules

There's much more to do, and there's a seperate list of state regs that are changed or squashed.
Let's hope this thing we've built doesn't smother us before we can take it apart, and put it back together in a much more useful way.

 

[Mack In Motion]

The problem is that the message we're getting from the CDC and FDA is the same tired crap about being sure the vaccine is safe and effective. Who gives a sh## anymore if it's safe and effective if the virus has already run all the way through the country. I have ZERO doubt that a subunit CV vaccine is safe. NONE. We've been doing this in animals for decades. and no matter what the antigen is we'll have more adverse reactions to the adjuvant used in the vaccine than we will the antigen. IF we give the vaccine to thousands of healthcare workers and it was only 50% effective at keeping them from getting sick what did we lose? Meanwhile you can be doing your studies with actual wild virus challenges going on and keep trying to improve on the vaccine.

There is a small but extraordinarily loud contingent of anti-vaxxers who already deny vaccine effectiveness. They assert that vaccines are really a vehicle to deliver (insert your favorite conspiracy theory here). Vaccines that have, today, been fully vetted, proven effective, and have been part of eradication efforts in countries across the globe.

Can you imagine implementing a vaccine that hasn't gone through that rigorous process for this virus? That group will literally have people setting themselves on fire and jumping off buildings in protest.

 

[husker2612]

The problem isn't in making the vaccine. We're there. The problem is in getting the FDA to approve it for emergency use without mind numbing ridiculous trials that take a year or more.

Meds and drugs still cause issues, side effects, & cancers and this is after years and years and years of testing. Could you imagine the issues after fast tracking this thing? Yes it may protect you from the virus but long term the virus would probably be safer. And no Im not one of those anti vaccine people.

 

[jrhuskerdad]

New study published in Nature from cases in Wuhan suggest a 1.4% mortality rate overall. If you're over 60, you're about 5x more likely to die than someone between the ages of 30-59. If you're under 30, you have about half the chance of dying as someone aged 30-59.

"Using public and published information, we estimate that the overall symptomatic case fatality risk (the probability of dying after developing symptoms) of COVID-19 in Wuhan was 1.4% (0.9–2.1%), which is substantially lower than both the corresponding crude or naïve confirmed case fatality risk (2,169/48,557 = 4.5%) and the approximator1 of deaths/deaths + recoveries (2,169/2,169 + 17,572 = 11%) as of 29 February 2020. Compared to those aged 30–59 years, those aged below 30 and above 59 years were 0.6 (0.3–1.1) and 5.1 (4.2–6.1) times more likely to die after developing symptoms. The risk of symptomatic infection increased with age (for example, at ~4% per year among adults aged 30–60 years)."

Estimating clinical severity of COVID-19 from the transmission dynamics in Wuhan, China

 

[mwulf]

In retrospect, shouldn't have chosen a businessman who's main claim to fame is inheriting a ton of wealth from his dad and then repeatedly going bankrupt.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

In retrospect, shouldn't have chosen a businessman who's main claim to fame is inheriting a ton of wealth from his dad and then repeatedly going bankrupt.

Just couldn't help yourself could you?

 

[NikkiSixx]

Should prob change the title to "Chinese Virus", "Wuhan 'Kung' Flu" or similar since that is where it is from.

 

[RedMyMind]

In retrospect, shouldn't have chosen a businessman who's main claim to fame is inheriting a ton of wealth from his dad and then repeatedly going bankrupt.

shouldn't have had politicians playing the impeachment and identity politics game

 

[Harry Caray]

In retrospect, shouldn't have chosen a businessman who's main claim to fame is inheriting a ton of wealth from his dad and then repeatedly going bankrupt.

Yeah we should have chosen someone who called the Chinese travel ban "xenophobic" and kept those flights coming in. We should have chosen the politicians that sold out this country to China in the first place.