Tom Brady is the GOAT

Herbert Husker

Redshirt Freshman
Jan 26, 2018
780
1,349
93
Can you post a link where you found this? I'd be interested to know the number of playoff games for each and factor how it really shakes out. Yes Brady's is higher, but he has been in a shitload more playoff games as well. Just would be interesting. By the way I am a Green Bay guy and don't love Brady, but some of these stats are insane that he has.
I got it from someone I follow on Twitter. Regrettably, I do not have a link other than to his tweet.

Brady has played in 43 playoff games. So he’s starting 1.6 possessions per game in opponent’s territory.

The other three have combined for 65 games. That shakes out to 0.9 possessions per game (each of them averages 0.9 per game, so it’s not like one is insanely low and dragging down their combined average).

Brady gets nearly an extra possession per playoff game in opponent’s territory. When games are decided by a possession, that’s a huge factor.

Not to mention the insane kicking luck Brady has had. Not only were Vinatieri and Gostkowski great, opposing kickers have missed at a high rate against his teams.
 

TampaBaySkers

Senior
Oct 30, 2010
2,338
3,360
113
I got it from someone I follow on Twitter. Regrettably, I do not have a link other than to his tweet.

Brady has played in 43 playoff games. So he’s starting 1.6 possessions per game in opponent’s territory.

The other three have combined for 65 games. That shakes out to 0.9 possessions per game (each of them averages 0.9 per game, so it’s not like one is insanely low and dragging down their combined average).

Brady gets nearly an extra possession per playoff game in opponent’s territory. When games are decided by a possession, that’s a huge factor.

Not to mention the insane kicking luck Brady has had. Not only were Vinatieri and Gostkowski great, opposing kickers have missed at a high rate against his teams.
Luck has to exist. How else do we explain the success of our enemies.
 

bigboxes

College Football Hall of Fame
Sep 4, 2004
23,513
9,028
113
Arlington, TX
I still consider him one of the best QBs of all time. Most of my critiques are hyperbole. I just think there are others in this era who would've had just as much or more success if they were in that system in that division paired with those Belichick defenses, as well as quite a bit of good fortune.

I usually use Rodgers as my example because I think he's the best. And I think if Brady were in Rodgers' shoes with McCarthy as HC and defenses that gave up five TDs in big playoff games, he'd be lucky to have a ring.
You keep talking of the AFC East as some doormat division. I'd say that you could make the same argument for the NFC North.
 

Herbert Husker

Redshirt Freshman
Jan 26, 2018
780
1,349
93
You keep talking of the AFC East as some doormat division. I'd say that you could make the same argument for the NFC North.
Since Rodgers became a starter, the Vikings, Bears, and Lions have combined for 11 10-win seasons. That's in only 12 years.

During Brady's time in New England, the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins combined for 10 10-win seasons. That's in 19 years.

Of course, one can argue that the reason the AFC East had fewer 10-win teams is because Brady beat them to make sure that didn't happen. But we can remove the games against the Packers and Patriots to eliminate that effect:
  • In nine of Rodgers' 12 seasons (75%), an NFC North foe won 10+ games out of the 14 that weren't against the Packers. Two of those nine teams went 11-3.
  • In seven of Brady's 19 seasons (37%), an AFC East foe won 10 games out of the 14 that weren't against the Patriots. None of them went 11-3.
So despite Brady having an extra seven seasons on Rodgers, he still had to deal with fewer quality division rivals. There's no way around it... Brady has had a much easier division over his career.
 
Nov 14, 2020
40
34
18
Since Rodgers became a starter, the Vikings, Bears, and Lions have combined for 11 10-win seasons. That's in only 12 years.

During Brady's time in New England, the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins combined for 10 10-win seasons. That's in 19 years.

Of course, one can argue that the reason the AFC East had fewer 10-win teams is because Brady beat them to make sure that didn't happen. But we can remove the games against the Packers and Patriots to eliminate that effect:
  • In nine of Rodgers' 12 seasons (75%), an NFC North foe won 10+ games out of the 14 that weren't against the Packers. Two of those nine teams went 11-3.
  • In seven of Brady's 19 seasons (37%), an AFC East foe won 10 games out of the 14 that weren't against the Patriots. None of them went 11-3.
So despite Brady having an extra seven seasons on Rodgers, he still had to deal with fewer quality division rivals. There's no way around it... Brady has had a much easier division over his career.
Who won today?
 

Herbert Husker

Redshirt Freshman
Jan 26, 2018
780
1,349
93
Who won today?
My entire argument is that winning is a function of the whole team, and that Brady has benefitted from better teams surrounding him.

What’s notable is that you didn’t say, “Hey look, Brady outplayed Rodgers,” because he didn’t. Rodgers was better despite having less time before the pocket collapsed.

If they switched teams and played the game again, who wins?
 
Nov 14, 2020
40
34
18
My entire argument is that winning is a function of the whole team, and that Brady has benefitted from better teams surrounding him.

What’s notable is that you didn’t say, “Hey look, Brady outplayed Rodgers,” because he didn’t. Rodgers was better despite having less time before the pocket collapsed.

If they switched teams and played the game again, who wins?
No my point is, winners win, pouty bitch face losers pout.
 

BuckysBoys1

Redshirt Freshman
Mar 28, 2019
885
622
93
If Aaron Rodgers played in the AFC East when the Dolphins, Jets, and Bills were terrible for two decades and had the same rosters that Brady had, he would’ve earned home field advantage every year, made it to a dozen Super Bowls, and won more than half of them.

If Brady’s defenses gave up 26 ppg in the playoffs like Rodgers’ have he wouldn’t have even won three rings.
That’s a lot of if’s!
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrighteRed24

Redinwashington

Graduate Assistant
Feb 2, 2013
5,884
5,453
113
66
(Red Acres) Grapeview, WA
My entire argument is that winning is a function of the whole team, and that Brady has benefitted from better teams surrounding him.

What’s notable is that you didn’t say, “Hey look, Brady outplayed Rodgers,” because he didn’t. Rodgers was better despite having less time before the pocket collapsed.

If they switched teams and played the game again, who wins?
Brady wins . He has the incredible ability to inspire those around him to play at a level above the competition. That being said he’s not invincible and I think the Chiefs knock him off in two weeks.
 
Mar 4, 2009
1,122
1,151
113
Since Rodgers became a starter, the Vikings, Bears, and Lions have combined for 11 10-win seasons. That's in only 12 years.

During Brady's time in New England, the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins combined for 10 10-win seasons. That's in 19 years.

Of course, one can argue that the reason the AFC East had fewer 10-win teams is because Brady beat them to make sure that didn't happen. But we can remove the games against the Packers and Patriots to eliminate that effect:
  • In nine of Rodgers' 12 seasons (75%), an NFC North foe won 10+ games out of the 14 that weren't against the Packers. Two of those nine teams went 11-3.
  • In seven of Brady's 19 seasons (37%), an AFC East foe won 10 games out of the 14 that weren't against the Patriots. None of them went 11-3.
So despite Brady having an extra seven seasons on Rodgers, he still had to deal with fewer quality division rivals. There's no way around it... Brady has had a much easier division over his career.
This is fuzzy math. The Jets made it to back to back AFC title games. I think in Rodgers’ career, Chicago and Minnesota have both made one NFC title game. So the division rivals have each made a conference title game twice. Jets, Lions, Bears, Bills, Dolphins, Vikings. They’ve all been pretty bad over the last ten years or so. I get that Brady’s division was bad but pointing to the NFC North as some killer division does not help your argument.
 

buckknowsall

All-American
Gold Member
Oct 25, 2004
4,035
736
113
Tom Brady’s playoff stats from his first three Super Bowl runs:

217 passing yards per game
1.2 passing TDs per game
Defense allowed 17 ppg

From that point on the narrative was set. He could do no wrong. Never gets blamed when they lose. Always gets credit when they win.
come now...that's really the story you're going to tell? If you cherry pick stats, you can find any that supports any narrative you want.
 

SomedayHusker

Redshirt Freshman
Oct 26, 2019
517
466
63
Omaha
Even as a Packers fan I bet on the Bucs and chiefs yesterday morning. Funny how opposing QBs (even super stars) seem to lay down and suck vs. Brady, regardless of the defense he has. I think the script is in this year for him to beat the Chiefs. And no it’s not because Tom Brady is a better QB.
 

Capdanjou

Redshirt Freshman
Sep 14, 2020
844
675
93
Brady is a great QB, and he is a winner. But the GOAT? When I think about great players there is always an individual play, or many, that stand out. I can hardly think of one from Brady. He wins, but very little about his individual play stands out as spectacular. Consistency might be his best attribute.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herbert Husker

redfanusa

First Team All-Big Ten
Feb 6, 2009
3,927
2,554
113
I was one of those "Tom Brady is just a product of the Belichick system at New England" guys, but after this season, it is clear Brady is one of the best to play the game. After Vince Ferragamo, of course.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigboxes

TampaBaySkers

Senior
Oct 30, 2010
2,338
3,360
113
Brady is a great QB, and he is a winner. But the GOAT? When I think about great players there is always an individual play, or many, that stand out. I can hardly think of one from Brady. He wins, but very little about his individual play stands out as spectacular. Consistency might be his best attribute.
Why would you define a goat by one play? Beyond idiotic.
 

Capdanjou

Redshirt Freshman
Sep 14, 2020
844
675
93
Why would you define a goat by one play? Beyond idiotic.
I didn't say that I define the GOAT by one play. You really are a turd. What I'm saying is that great players usually make great individual plays that fans recall when speaking to their greatness. If this were a conversation about Crouch, for example, you might recall the 95 yard run against Missouri or the reverse pass against Oklahoma. I can hardly think of the quintessential Tom Brady play. That is not to say he isn't a great player. I recognized his greatness. And his level of consistency is nearly unparalleled, which is arguably the thing that makes him such a great QB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herbert Husker
Nov 23, 2003
1,507
301
83
I didn't say that I define the GOAT by one play. You really are a turd. What I'm saying is that great players usually make great individual plays that fans recall when speaking to their greatness. If this were a conversation about Crouch, for example, you might recall the 95 yard run against Missouri or the reverse pass against Oklahoma. I can hardly think of the quintessential Tom Brady play. That is not to say he isn't a great player. I recognized his greatness. And his level of consistency is nearly unparalleled, which is arguably the thing that makes him such a great QB.
The quintessential Tom Brady play is something WE as fans dont notice, thats what makes him great. Take yesterday for example. The play they scored on at the end of the half was a play Brady wanted to run. Arians said that TB liked how the Packers were lining up against that formation and thought that they could exploit it. And they did. Its the game within a game that Brady is great at.
 

EriktheRed

Graduate Assistant
Gold Member
Jul 1, 2001
5,205
3,463
113
Brady is a great QB, and he is a winner. But the GOAT? When I think about great players there is always an individual play, or many, that stand out. I can hardly think of one from Brady. He wins, but very little about his individual play stands out as spectacular. Consistency might be his best attribute.
LOL is this for real?

Most passing TD's of all time

Second in passing yards of all time

Second in completions all time

4 time Super Bowl MVP

Nothing really stands out here RollingLaugh
 

drubendall

Senior
Apr 18, 2004
2,522
3,626
113
Hey that's a great question...hadn't thought about that. Is Rogers an unrestricted FA this year??
They could work something out. You don't draft a QB in the first round to let him languish on the bench. A-aron has great trade value. That said, I'd try for one more year with him at the helm. If they can add a couple of players on defense and get their line healthy, they could be back in the NFC championship game next year. The NFC is just sad. All of the current good teams desperately need a QB.
 

HBK4life

Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
Jan 24, 2004
18,590
17,655
113
North of Lincoln South of Heaven
They could work something out. You don't draft a QB in the first round to let him languish on the bench. A-aron has great trade value. That said, I'd try for one more year with him at the helm. If they can add a couple of players on defense and get their line healthy, they could be back in the NFC championship game next year. The NFC is just sad. All of the current good teams desperately need a QB.
All up to him. He still has a few years playing at a high level. I'd be pissed they drafted my replacement when you're one game away from a SB two years in a row. Love was MWC honorable mention. You think he is gonna fill A Rods shoes?? He's following Favre and Rodgers HOF careers. No pressure there. Lol. FYI. Aaron sat for 3 years behind Favre.
 

John_J_Rambo

All-American
Jan 10, 2020
4,824
8,535
113
LOL is this for real?

Most passing TD's of all time

Second in passing yards of all time

Second in completions all time

4 time Super Bowl MVP

Nothing really stands out here RollingLaugh
I'll add:

more than double the playoff wins than the next QB, too.

appeared in conf title game 14 of 19 seasons

authored largest comeback (25 points) in super bowl history
 
  • Like
Reactions: EriktheRed

drubendall

Senior
Apr 18, 2004
2,522
3,626
113
It's going to be a fun offseason. Matt Stafford is going to end up with NO or SF likely. Watson will go somewhere, maybe Darnold. Alex Smith? Who goes to NE? Denver is probably in play for a QB. Colts are a good QB away from a strong run to the SB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John_J_Rambo