OT- DC commercial plane and Blackhawk collide

[dinglefritz]

So you are not only disputing the former groups explanation, you are disputing the current groups confirmation as well? Hilarious.

Nope. Never said that. I’m saying that anybody who didn’t consider foreign spying via drones was being a fool. I had no doubt that most if not all of those NJ drones were either private or our own military. I didn’t promote the mother ship idea. That said when you look at the size of some of the pleasure craft on the Potomac for instance, launching a terror attack on the Whitehouse from one of those boats isn’t inconceivable

There’s a large museum a few blocks from my hotel dedicated solely to spying and spy equipment. The good news is not everybody trusts the Chinese, Russians and Iranians. I guarantee you that the CIA and Department of Defense are actively aware of the threat drones present.

 

[Bruce1981]

That is what Google is for. I am sure there is a youtube video with a step by step guide for diagnosing disease and baby delivery.

Can you read a sectional chart?

 

[10Trvln]

7 seconds. That’s a fairly long time. So in your opinion IF the controller’s attention had been focused on one station instead of two, could they have prevented this accident by directing the chopper to change elevation? Multiple former pilots are absolving the plane’s pilot but questioning the controller’s instruction even though it appears obvious the chopper wasn’t where it should have been.

People are questioning why we fly missions along that river. After walking around the Whitehouse perimeter yesterday and then to the Capitol building yesterday, I can see why we keep air assets in close proximity and patrol that river with them. That river especially at high tide, provides rapid access to the Whitehouse and multiple key buildings for a drone that could take off from a pleasure craft. Flight time from the Potomac to the White House would be a few seconds.

Have you ever flown? Not as a passenger. Actually flew the plane? It’s pretty easy to say 7 seconds is a fairly long time. There’s a lot of stuff going on on takeoff and landing and when you’re in the airport environment. 7 seconds isn’t even a blink.

I held off making comments, because as someone who has flown it’s pretty F’d up when people that think they know how hectic things are jump to conclusions.

That said, my initial thought was that the helo pilot MIGHT have been at the wrong altitude.

I also, thought the controller could’ve given more clear instructions on which aircraft to follow, ie., descending/ arriving aircraft vs generic aircraft, when there are multiple in a small space.

Either way, it’s a tragic situation and I feel for the families. Certainly for those of the lost lives, but the controller, whether or not found at fault, has to live with that for the rest of their life, including their family.

 

[dinglefritz]

Have you ever flown? Not as a passenger. Actually flew the plane? It’s pretty easy to say 7 seconds is a fairly long time. There’s a lot of stuff going on on takeoff and landing and when you’re in the airport environment. 7 seconds isn’t even a blink.

I have not flown a plane. I understand how fast they’re moving and how quickly sh## comes at them. Bruce 1981 seems to be knowledgeable and I was asking HIM if he thought the accident could have been avoided if the controller had been solely focused on one station. Normally there’s another controller focused on chopper traffic. It appears to me that the controller had too much on their plate in that moment. It’s one of the busiest runways in our country.

 

[10Trvln]

I have not flown a plane. I understand how fast they’re moving and how quickly sh## comes at them. Bruce 1981 seems to be knowledgeable and I was asking HIM if he thought the accident could have been avoided if the controller had been solely focused on one station. Normally there’s another controller focused on chopper traffic. It appears to me that the controller had too much on their plate in that moment. It’s one of the busiest runways in our country.

I 💯 agree the staffing is an issue and yes I have thoughts on why that is. Probably even stated here earlier.

 

[Bruce1981]

7 seconds. That’s a fairly long time. So in your opinion IF the controller’s attention had been focused on one station instead of two, could they have prevented this accident by directing the chopper to change elevation? Multiple former pilots are absolving the plane’s pilot but questioning the controller’s instruction even though it appears obvious the chopper wasn’t where it should have been.

People are questioning why we fly missions along that river. After walking around the Whitehouse perimeter yesterday and then to the Capitol building yesterday, I can see why we keep air assets in close proximity and patrol that river with them. That river especially at high tide, provides rapid access to the Whitehouse and multiple key buildings for a drone that could take off from a pleasure craft. Flight time from the Potomac to the White House would be a few seconds.

7 seconds after being granted visual separation is nothing. Should there be 2 controllers? Yes. Is that why this happened or the instructions were unclear so this is why this happened? No.

I don't think you understand the repercussions of breaking elevation limits. That owner of the drone that hit the plane scooper in California if found, would face a 75,000 dollar fine and or a year in jail for breaking that TFR alone.

 

[dinglefritz]

CNN has a video up with a retired female Blackhawk pilot who cites 3 factors contributing to the accident. One obviously is the chopper’s elevation which she states as being between 350 and 400 feet. Not 500 but still too high. Second was the Blackhawk was short of a crew chief to monitor side traffic. Third was the controller’s query “do you see the CRJ?” There were two jets in that area and they didnt specify which jet. Speculation from “experts” continue to suggest that the crew chief focused on the wrong jet mentioned by the controller. Edit additionally she stated that the night vision could have contributed.

 

[Big bo fan]

7 seconds. That’s a fairly long time. So in your opinion IF the controller’s attention had been focused on one station instead of two, could they have prevented this accident by directing the chopper to change elevation? Multiple former pilots are absolving the plane’s pilot but questioning the controller’s instruction even though it appears obvious the chopper wasn’t where it should have been.

People are questioning why we fly missions along that river. After walking around the Whitehouse perimeter yesterday and then to the Capitol building yesterday, I can see why we keep air assets in close proximity and patrol that river with them. That river especially at high tide, provides rapid access to the Whitehouse and multiple key buildings for a drone that could take off from a pleasure craft. Flight time from the Potomac to the White House would be a few seconds.

I truly believe the chopper pilot had eyes on the wrong plane. It was a tragic accident. But in the end with asking and being granted visual separation it’s 100 percent thier baby to maintain. Then the fact that they’re above the ceiling. Nothing will bring the people back but the investigation has to conclude with a cause/ responsibility. And unfortunately it’s 100 percent in the chopper pilot.

 

[Huskers123456]

Nope. Never said that. I’m saying that anybody who didn’t consider foreign spying via drones was being a fool. I had no doubt that most if not all of those NJ drones were either private or our own military. I didn’t promote the mother ship idea. That said when you look at the size of some of the pleasure craft on the Potomac for instance, launching a terror attack on the Whitehouse from one of those boats isn’t inconceivable

There’s a large museum a few blocks from my hotel dedicated solely to spying and spy equipment. The good news is not everybody trusts the Chinese, Russians and Iranians. I guarantee you that the CIA and Department of Defense are actively aware of the threat drones present.

The drone sightings seem to be concentrated over areas which in fact have sensitive military or national defense facilities. We're naive to think it's anything other than a bad actor seeking detailed information and testing or ability to detect and destroy drones. First it was balloons. Now its drones.

Sleepy let the Chinese spy balloons fly over our military facilities for months before the public finally raised the alarm. I don't know if they can gather more information than some of the satellite imagery they're able to gather. Somebody on the radio the other day that they can gather more specific GPS information of potential targets than you can get from a satellite without real time video control of the weapon. My first thought of the drones flying over some the areas was that they were being controlled and being used in training exercises by the military. IF that were true, why wouldn't the military admit it?

I'm now convinced that at least some of the larger drones are being operated by adversaries testing our air defenses over or near sensitive areas. The problem with trying to shoot them down over populated areas is that there would undoubtably be collateral damage on the ground.

Did you get hacked? That wasn't you saying they were foreign adversaries?

 

[dinglefritz]

7 seconds after being granted visual separation is nothing. Should there be 2 controllers? Yes. Is that why this happened or the instructions were unclear so this is why this happened? No.

I don't think you understand the repercussions of breaking elevation limits. That owner of the drone that hit the plane scooper in California if found, would face a 75,000 dollar fine and or a year in jail for breaking that TFR alone.

I do understand the seriousness and repercussions. I also understand that there’s hundreds if not thousands of idiots in the U.S. that own hobby drones.

 

[dinglefritz]

Did you get hacked? That wasn't you saying they were foreign adversaries?

I was saying that we can’t discount that possibility. The Chinese have been shown recently to be using drone surveillance. Even though our Presidents publicly have stated that the NJ drones weren’t foreign actors, I’m not sure either would be advised to say that there were foreign actors involved publicly by the CIA or DD.

 

[Bruce1981]

I have not flown a plane. I understand how fast they’re moving and how quickly sh## comes at them. Bruce 1981 seems to be knowledgeable and I was asking HIM if he thought the accident could have been avoided if the controller had been solely focused on one station. Normally there’s another controller focused on chopper traffic. It appears to me that the controller had too much on their plate in that moment. It’s one of the busiest runways in our country.

Download autopylot and mess around with it a little. People who were crying for drone regulations during the NJ event don't understand there are already FAA policies in place. A recreational drone PIC can have their life ruined if not careful.

 

[Huskers123456]

I was saying that we can’t discount that possibility. The Chinese have been shown recently to be using drone surveillance. Even though our Presidents publicly have stated that the NJ drones weren’t foreign actors, I’m not sure either would be advised to say that there were foreign actors involved publicly by the CIA or DD.

You said you were convinced. That is far from "discounting the possibility".

 

[dinglefritz]

Download autopylot and mess around with it a little. People who were crying for drone regulations during the NJ event don't understand there are already FAA policies in place. A recreational drone PIC can have their life ruined if not careful.

And they should. The problem is too many people think they won’t get caught

 

[Bruce1981]

I do understand the seriousness and repercussions. I also understand that there’s hundreds if not thousands of idiots in the U.S. that own hobby drones.

If they have those kind of regulations on aircraft that can weigh no more than 55 pounds, how important would it be for a Blackhawk to follow ceiling limitations?

 

[dinglefritz]

You said you were convinced. That is far from "discounting the possibility".

A Chinese national is in prison for just that. Do you think they identified every drone and know what every drone was doing in that area over NJ? I don’t.

 

[Bruce1981]

CNN has a video up with a retired female Blackhawk pilot who cites 3 factors contributing to the accident. One obviously is the chopper’s elevation which she states as being between 350 and 400 feet. Not 500 but still too high. Second was the Blackhawk was short of a crew chief to monitor side traffic. Third was the controller’s query “do you see the CRJ?” There were two jets in that area and they didnt specify which jet. Speculation from “experts” continue to suggest that the crew chief focused on the wrong jet mentioned by the controller.

Who said the chopper was at 500 feet?

She could have stopped at elevation. That's all that matters here.

 

[dinglefritz]

If they have that kind of regulations on aircraft that can weigh no more than 50 pounds, how important would it be for a Blackhawk to follow ceiling limitations?

Very obviously. Did they violate that to try to avoid the jet taking off? The question of why the chopper was at that elevation will probably never be answered but no doubt it’s being asked. It was extremely windy here that night and when we landed here Tuesday there was a tremendous amount of wake turbulence.

 

[Bruce1981]

Very obviously. Did they violate that to try to avoid the jet taking off? The question of why the chopper was at that elevation will probably never be answered but no doubt it’s being asked. It was extremely windy here that night and when we landed here Tuesday there was a tremendous amount of wake turbulence.

What jet taking off? There were no jets in the air from takeoff in their general vicinity. If they had to take elusive maneuvers from a jet taking off the jet they actually hit would have had to as well.

 

[dinglefritz]

Who said the chopper was at 500 feet?

She could have stopped at elevation. That's all that matters here.

You didn’t answer my question on whether or not you think the accident could have been prevented if the controller was focused on one station. Clearly the chopper was too high. Why didn’t the controller alert the pilot to that? I appreciate your input and not trying to be combative. Eventually I’ll talk to my brother-in-law to get his take too. My view has always been there were multiple potential factors and that is supported by CNN’s former Blackhawk pilot. The one critical factor clearly was the chopper’s elevation.

 

[dinglefritz]

What jet taking off? There were no jets in the air from takeoff in their general vicinity. If they had to take elusive maneuvers from a jet taking off the jet they actually hit would have had to as well.

There was a jet either taking off or preparing to take off on an adjacent runway according to multiple sources and that has been identified as a potential factor by multiple officials.

 

[Big bo fan]

There was a jet either taking off or preparing to take off on an adjacent runway according to multiple sources and that has been identified as a potential factor by multiple officials.

The only factor is the chopper pilot fk’d up and was in a position they weren’t supposed to be in .

 

[Bruce1981]

You didn’t answer my question on whether or not you think the accident could have been prevented if the controller was focused on one station. Clearly the chopper was too high. Why didn’t the controller alert the pilot to that? I appreciate your input and not trying to be combative. Eventually I’ll talk to my brother-in-law to get his take too. My view has always been there were multiple potential factors and that is supported by CNN’s former Blackhawk pilot. The one critical factor clearly was the chopper’s elevation.

I did answer your question.

If there was a jet about to take off they were nowhere close to being in the air at the time.

Visual separation was requested and granted=all responsibility is in the helicopter pilots hands.

Almost double the allowed AGL.

This is all on the Blackhawk.

Good day

 

[dinglefritz]

I did answer your question.

If there was a jet about to take off they were nowhere close to being in the air at the time.

Visual separation was requested and granted=all responsibility is in the helicopter pilots hands.

Almost double the allowed AGL.

This is all on the Blackhawk.

Good day

Another retired pilot just stated the video of the crash shows another plane in the air in the area. It hit a little close to home to me after landing on that runway a day before the crash. They’re working to recover the Blackhawk’s flight recordings. They’re saying that will shed light on the pilot’s and crew’s actions. Done. Good day to you as well.

 

[Bruce1981]

Another retired pilot just stated the video of the crash shows another plane in the air in the area. It hit a little close to home to me after landing on that runway a day before the crash. They’re working to recover the Blackhawk’s flight recordings. They’re saying that will shed light on the pilot’s and crew’s actions. Done. Good day to you as well.

Everything outside of flight path, the responsibility of visual separation going to pilot of Blackhawk and almost doubling the AGL ceiling is noise.

 

[dinglefritz]

Everything outside of flight path, the responsibility of visual separation going to pilot of Blackhawk and almost doubling the AGL ceiling is noise.

I do appreciate your input. Thanks.

 

[dinglefritz]

She. Not that it matters but I thought I heard copter pilot was a she

They’re not disclosing “her” name yet. Earlier I believe it was CNN released photos of the crew. There was one person with a mustache who otherwise appeared to be female 🤷

 

[huskerfan66]

They’re not disclosing “her” name yet. Earlier I believe it was CNN released photos of the crew. There was one person with a mustache who otherwise appeared to be female 🤷

Oh my

 

[dinglefritz]

Oh my

I don’t think those pics are up anymore. Might not be correct or all next of kin haven’t been notified.

 

[cavalot]

They’re not disclosing “her” name yet. Earlier I believe it was CNN released photos of the crew. There was one person with a mustache who otherwise appeared to be female 🤷

Ryan O’Hara, the crew chief on the UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter involved in the crash at Ronald Reagan National Airport near Washington D.C., was part of the 2014 class of Parkview Marine Corps JROTC at Parkview High School in Lilburn.(Ryan O'Hara's family)

The crew included an instructor pilot and pilot in command who were experienced to the point where either crew member “could manage that helicopter by themselves.”

The instructor pilot, who was serving as pilot-in-command, had about 1,000 flight hours, Koziol said.

The instructor pilot was evaluating the second pilot -- who was also qualified as a pilot in command — for that night training flight and the pilot who was being evaluated had about 500 flight hours, Koziol said.

All three military personnel on board were killed in the midair collision between their helicopter and an American Airlines passenger jet late Wednesday at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport just outside Washington, D.C.

 

[huskerfan66]

Yes there was a plane taking off but way north nw and higher elevation than where the accident occurred. Not sure the knowledge of those on here and I don't want to assume anything. But aviation 101 is planes land and take off in the same direction because they need the lift of any possible wind. So a jet was taking off to the nnw as a jet was descending from the sse.

The landing lights are bright if you are looking at them but they're not ALL that visible from the side. It's very possible the copter was looking at the jet departing.

 

[huskerfan66]

I don’t think those pics are up anymore. Might not be correct or all next of kin haven’t been notified.

I think they're trying to be careful and respectful, as they should, until all family notified. The recovery mission continues and they're doing that as careful as possible too

 

[dinglefritz]

So the current group claimed the previous group was lying and there was more to the story. They have since confirmed the previous group was correct. So the current group is full of shit? Can I get you on record as saying that?

You are literally still promoting that the drones in Jersey were Chinese, when 2 different groups have said they aren't. In addition to you having no proof. That is a conspiracy theory.

Not once did I say all or even most of the drones were Chinese.

 

[c3o]

Hey look, another event clouded in mystery that will be memory-holed in a week or two.

 

[Huskers123456]

Not once did I say all or even most of the drones were Chinese.

How many were Chinese?

 

[huskerfan66]

Don’t Air Traffic Controllers make shit loads of $$$? And all suffer from terrible depression from the pressure?

Yes. I personally know 2 former ATC who put in their career and are now retired. Yes the pay is good and you just can't make mistakes

 

[dinglefritz]

How many were Chinese?

Don’t know. One known of sure in California. Dozens weren’t positively identified in New Jersey. There’s no way for us to know. If you want ME to prove there were Chinese drones there, I can’t nor can you prove Chinese agents weren’t operating a drone or drones spying on our military installation there.

 

[Huskers123456]

Don’t know. One known of sure in California. Dozens weren’t positively identified in New Jersey. There’s no way for us to know. If you want ME to prove there were Chinese drones there, I can’t nor can you prove Chinese agents weren’t operating a drone or drones spying on our military installation there.

Read post #142. Were those posts you made? You specifically said they were Chinese.

I can't prove anything on these drones or this plane crash. In addition, I don't claim to be an expert or know experts. So, I didn't make up a bunch of stuff to try and sound like I do.

 

[king_kong_]

did anyone post this ITT?



makes sense to me

 

[Bruce1981]

That there was at least 1 Chinese spy drone over NJ during the event in question.

Not out of the realm of possibility. China has secret police stations here and flew a balloon over our country. Them using drones would make sense.

did anyone post this ITT?

View embedded media

makes sense to me

Where he ignores the pilot of the Blackhawk ignored 200 foot ceiling rule?