Vaccine Progress

RedCap

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Damage to the economy is way overstated... checked the Dow today and it looks solid... saying the economy is trashed is just fear mongering... crafted to fit a political narrative...
The Dow isn't the economy and record numbers of unemployed would disagree that the economy was just fine. We'll come out of it and next year will be great but it was devastated this spring.
 

Iroh2

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Nov 9, 2019
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But when talk about Covid, we pick data that fits our narrative and run with it. “I knew a guy that had Covid and it wasn’t a big deal so Covid is overstated or just the flu.” So, why not do the same with the economy? The Dow is like the one guy with Covid. Everyone knows the economy is not the best, but I can find a data point that I like it is all good.
 
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bingo65

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I was bed bound for a year with inflammation ravaging my entire body. Joints the size of cantaloupes, muscle pain, raynaud's, fatigue, anxiety, depression, skin issues, nightmares, digestive issues.

Fun stuff. I had to drop out of my college program, couldn't work and every day was hell.

I'll take my chances with Covid.
sounds like you are not only a very rare patient but possibly 1 in a million.
 

bingo65

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I also have never gotten sick from the flu. Never really get sick in general
well i'm glad you never get sick. thats great. hope the streak continues. and i hope everyone continues to get all their vaccinations because they are safe and effective for 99.99% of the population
 
Nov 14, 2005
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I was bed bound for a year with inflammation ravaging my entire body. Joints the size of cantaloupes, muscle pain, raynaud's, fatigue, anxiety, depression, skin issues, nightmares, digestive issues.

Fun stuff. I had to drop out of my college program, couldn't work and every day was hell.

I'll take my chances with Covid.

I assume that you brought a claim under the Vaccine Compensation Act. Based on your described reaction, I would imagine you were awarded somewhere in the $300,000-400,000 range.
 

Antwill

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I assume that you brought a claim under the Vaccine Compensation Act. Based on your described reaction, I would imagine you were awarded somewhere in the $300,000-400,000 range.

YES! Because it is SO EASY to win in a court system that allows no precedence and where the government acts as the interrogator where in all other situations they act as the advocate for consumers who have been wronged by some industry. However, it would be pretty difficult to get $300-$400K when the top damages paid for an individual case is $250,000 even for death.
 
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RedMyMind

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Aug 22, 2017
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I assume that you brought a claim under the Vaccine Compensation Act. Based on your described reaction, I would imagine you were awarded somewhere in the $300,000-400,000 range.
Nah. Didn't pursue it. Didn't know that Act existed. Was busy trying to stay alive.
 
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scorcher2

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Yep! I think even if the best candidate developed were to make it to the public (I think the Oxford vaccine trials are looking to be the best?) it would be in 2021 sometime. Not only do they have to test a bunch, but then they have to manufacture hundreds of millions of these things.
I thought most of these companies were already making millions of them so they are ahead of the game if they get the ok.
 
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bingo65

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YES! Because it is SO EASY to win in a court system that allows no precedence and where the government acts as the interrogator where in all other situations they act as the advocate for consumers who have been wronged by some industry. However, it would be pretty difficult to get $300-$400K when the top damages paid for an individual case is $250,000 even for death.
i think you got your numbers all wrong. according to the vaccine compensation govt website well over half of all claims since 2008 are compensated and the average compensation is several hundred thousand. and my initial guess was accurate. about 1 person out of every 1 million people vaccinated incurred a side effect that was deemed for compensation since 1988. reminder: not all bad things that happen to us are caused by a vaccine
 

dinglefritz

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they've already reported small number of hyper immune responses with the moderna v

what does multinational have to do with anything? every drug company is multinational. why would you accept the statements from any drug company if you dont accept the statements from Merck? you can think whatever you want about which vaccine strategy is the best for efficacy and safety but you will not know until all the studies are done. maybe the first one will work fantastic with little or no side effects. that would be great. but a vaccine with that technology has never been approved. doesn't mean it won't work. but it does mean we know less about it.
The CEO of Merck when making public statements unlike our President choses his words carefully, giving only statements that would promote his company's product and create skepticism about other competing products. He's interested in sales and stock price of Merck. If you don't understand how that works you need to take some basic business classes.
 

Antwill

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i think you got your numbers all wrong. according to the vaccine compensation govt website well over half of all claims since 2008 are compensated and the average compensation is several hundred thousand. and my initial guess was accurate. about 1 person out of every 1 million people vaccinated incurred a side effect that was deemed for compensation since 1988. reminder: not all bad things that happen to us are caused by a vaccine

That may be the percentage of people who actually get a day in vaccine court. It's extremely hard to prove causation to even get your day in court. Most in the medical profession are hostile to people who point to their vaccinations as a cause for injury and don't cooperate in helping them prove their case, just resorting to the "it wasn't the vaccine" defense that some on here are saying. There are all kinds of people with that story out there. The fact that the Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund has paid out over $4B in claims since the 80s should be proof to people that vaccine injury is real. Not to mention the fact that drug companies are indemnified from liability for vaccine injuries due to the same act of congress that established the vaccine courts. If vaccines are so "safe and effective" as the mantra goes, why did the drug companies go to Congress and threaten to stop making them due to how much money they were sued for unless they were indemnified?

It's pretty incredible that people think that an industry that has literally been caught lying about it's products again and again and has paid out billions of dollars in damages to people (I'm talking about for all the drugs that have caused people harm other than vaccines - remember, they can't be sued for damages on those) has somehow found Jesus when it comes to vaccines and would never put anything out there that would do harm in order to reap profits. Get real.

And don't get me started on the explosion of the rate of chronic disease in our children since the the current vaccination schedule was introduced.

I'm not "anti-vaxx" as the pejorative suggests. If people want to get vaccinated, go to town. It's their body. But requiring someone who has real and legitimate concerns and objections to getting vaccinations should never be forced to do so. I'm well aware of the SCOTUS decision saying compulsory vaccinations are legal. They've made all kinds of bad decisions over the years. That's just one of many.
 

bingo65

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That may be the percentage of people who actually get a day in vaccine court. It's extremely hard to prove causation to even get your day in court. Most in the medical profession are hostile to people who point to their vaccinations as a cause for injury and don't cooperate in helping them prove their case, just resorting to the "it wasn't the vaccine" defense that some on here are saying. There are all kinds of people with that story out there. The fact that the Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund has paid out over $4B in claims since the 80s should be proof to people that vaccine injury is real. Not to mention the fact that drug companies are indemnified from liability for vaccine injuries due to the same act of congress that established the vaccine courts. If vaccines are so "safe and effective" as the mantra goes, why did the drug companies go to Congress and threaten to stop making them due to how much money they were sued for unless they were indemnified?

It's pretty incredible that people think that an industry that has literally been caught lying about it's products again and again and has paid out billions of dollars in damages to people (I'm talking about for all the drugs that have caused people harm other than vaccines - remember, they can't be sued for damages on those) has somehow found Jesus when it comes to vaccines and would never put anything out there that would do harm in order to reap profits. Get real.

And don't get me started on the explosion of the rate of chronic disease in our children since the the current vaccination schedule was introduced.

I'm not "anti-vaxx" as the pejorative suggests. If people want to get vaccinated, go to town. It's their body. But requiring someone who has real and legitimate concerns and objections to getting vaccinations should never be forced to do so. I'm well aware of the SCOTUS decision saying compulsory vaccinations are legal. They've made all kinds of bad decisions over the years. That's just one of many.
vaccine injury may be real. as i said it looks like its about 1 in a million. there is no business in the world that would undertake an activity that has a higher liability than profit potential. that is why the companies are protected by the government. it takes billions to try to cure or prevent a disease and almost always ends up with failure and no revenue to offset the billions spent trying. so the government helps with the liability to help incentivize companies to keep looking for cures for diseases that plaque us. you can also look at the clinical trial data which most often is not conducted or collected by the drug company itself. these trials enroll hundreds of thousands of patients to test the efficacy and safety of vaccines. Its pretty hard to hide a common side effect with millions of patient years on the record. all the science and data proves your concerns wrong
 
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litespeedhuskerfan

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vaccine injury may be real. as i said it looks like its about 1 in a million. there is no business in the world that would undertake an activity that has a higher liability than profit potential. that is why the companies are protected by the government. it takes billions to try to cure or prevent a disease and almost always ends up with failure and no revenue to offset the billions spent trying. so the government helps with the liability to help incentivize companies to keep looking for cures for diseases that plaque us. you can also look at the clinical trial data which most often is not conducted or collected by the drug company itself. these trials enroll hundreds of thousands of patients to test the efficacy and safety of vaccines. Its pretty hard to hide a common side effect with millions of patient years on the record. all the science and data proves your concerns wrong

We've become a nation of people who want the moon and the stars, yesterday, with zero risk to us. We want a full refund many moons later if we change our mind. Not a big fan of that line of thinking.
 
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YES! Because it is SO EASY to win in a court system that allows no precedence and where the government acts as the interrogator where in all other situations they act as the advocate for consumers who have been wronged by some industry. However, it would be pretty difficult to get $300-$400K when the top damages paid for an individual case is $250,000 even for death.

Complete nonsense. As one example, in 1990 there were 88 claims approved, with a payout of over 53 million. And you have no idea how the system works. I have a friend who I graduated from law school with. After he was disabled out of the FBI for a knee injury he worked as a special master in the vaccine program. They are required to give the claimant every benefit of the doubt. In small cases, the US often concedes the injury or doesn't even oppose it. Plus if the claimant doesn't like the result, he can file a lawsuit. I'm not trying to imply that the government hands over money willy-nilly, but if anything the system is skewed toward claimants. Oh, and I don't know if that 4 billion is correct, given that your other numbers are made up. But the total award numbers include attorneys fees, which are required to be paid if the claimant is awarded damages or even if the claimant loses but had a reasonable case. So a significant percentage of the total amount paid out is attorneys fees.
 

z28craz

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I thought most of these companies were already making millions of them so they are ahead of the game if they get the ok.

I have read that one company is on track to manufacture 300 million doses before the end of the year and another 1 billion next year. And it sounds like Moderna is planning on 500 million this year with another 1 billion next year. As was stated previously, and our Vet confirmed this last week. Coronavirus vaccines for animals have been around for a long time. I’m sure adaptation for humans is doable and these companies would not be spending the money to manufacture this many doses if they weren’t confident in the vaccine’s approval.
 

Crazyhole

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I have read that one company is on track to manufacture 300 million doses before the end of the year and another 1 billion next year. And it sounds like Moderna is planning on 500 million this year with another 1 billion next year. As was stated previously, and our Vet confirmed this last week. Coronavirus vaccines for animals have been around for a long time. I’m sure adaptation for humans is doable and these companies would not be spending the money to manufacture this many doses if they weren’t confident in the vaccine’s approval.
Animal vaccines are completely different than human vaccines. Nobody cares if there is a 3% death rate among pigs or sheep from being vaccinated.
 
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dinglefritz

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Animal vaccines are completely different than human vaccines. Nobody cares if there is a 3% death rate among pigs or sheep from being vaccinated.
You're way off on that. They're not completely different and farmers and pet owners would raise hell if they had a 3% death loss from a vaccine. I don't get your opposition to vaccines. For God's sake man, you need to re-examine your position on this. Vaccines have saved millions of lives especially of children. Your odds of dying from Corona virus is probably going to end up being about 3 in 10,000. You're odds from dying from some type of immune reaction to a Corona virus vaccine is probably going to be 1 in 10 million. IF you react to the vaccine, more than likely you would have a terrible time with the wild virus.
 

Crazyhole

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You're way off on that. They're not completely different and farmers and pet owners would raise hell if they had a 3% death loss from a vaccine. I don't get your opposition to vaccines. For God's sake man, you need to re-examine your position on this. Vaccines have saved millions of lives especially of children. Your odds of dying from Corona virus is probably going to end up being about 3 in 10,000. You're odds from dying from some type of immune reaction to a Corona virus vaccine is probably going to be 1 in 10 million. IF you react to the vaccine, more than likely you would have a terrible time with the wild virus.
Who said I was opposed to vaccines?
 
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dinglefritz

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Who said I was opposed to vaccines?
You sure come off that way about this one. This is not a new technology and no there really isn't that much difference between a dog, pig or a human when it comes to their immune systems. This technology is proven.
 
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Charlie Marlow

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In Your Head
I have read that one company is on track to manufacture 300 million doses before the end of the year and another 1 billion next year. And it sounds like Moderna is planning on 500 million this year with another 1 billion next year. As was stated previously, and our Vet confirmed this last week. Coronavirus vaccines for animals have been around for a long time. I’m sure adaptation for humans is doable and these companies would not be spending the money to manufacture this many doses if they weren’t confident in the vaccine’s approval.
Like I said previously, they can go ahead and manufacture with confidence because the US is underwriting the loss if it doesn't get approved. It's part of Operation 'Warp Speed'.
 

z28craz

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Damage to the economy is way overstated... checked the Dow today and it looks solid... saying the economy is trashed is just fear mongering... crafted to fit a political narrative...

The Dow is made up of 30 companies. That’s it. It’s a trash index and is about the worst gauge of the economy that one could use. It’s down 6% year to date, and if not for Apple, Microsoft, Home Depot and Walmart it would probably be down well over 10% and probably between 15% and 20%. In addition, the markets are lead economic indicators. Markets are pricing in a vaccine later in the year or early next year and is not reflecting the economy as it stands today.
 
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jflores

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Like I said previously, they can go ahead and manufacture with confidence because the US is underwriting the loss if it doesn't get approved. It's part of Operation 'Warp Speed'.

The Gates foundation is also spending money letting folks make candidate vaccines in quantity just in case one pans out we have some available right away instead of waiting another six months on production.
 
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Crazyhole

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You sure come off that way about this one. This is not a new technology and no there really isn't that much difference between a dog, pig or a human when it comes to their immune systems. This technology is proven.

I'm just skeptical about the idea of having a vaccine so quickly when they typically take years to produce. The only problem I have with vaccines is the pertussis vaccine that almost killed me when I was a toddler. But thats personal and I haven't gone through enough therapy to talk about it yet.
 

meribeau

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As much as I want to believe this is a "moonshot" type of deal, I just cant get past the idea of this being a profit play by big pharma and the government. The whole thing just seems like a fictional narrative to me, where there is an unknown villain from beyond this dimension and a hero that comes in to save us all. It's just way too prepackaged to be real.

this is food scraps to big Pharma
 

GBRforLife1

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You're way off on that. They're not completely different and farmers and pet owners would raise hell if they had a 3% death loss from a vaccine. I don't get your opposition to vaccines. For God's sake man, you need to re-examine your position on this. Vaccines have saved millions of lives especially of children. Your odds of dying from Corona virus is probably going to end up being about 3 in 10,000. You're odds from dying from some type of immune reaction to a Corona virus vaccine is probably going to be 1 in 10 million. IF you react to the vaccine, more than likely you would have a terrible time with the wild virus.


Your odds may not even be that high.

 

Iroh2

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The Dow is made up of 30 companies. That’s it. It’s a trash index and is about the worst gauge of the economy that one could use. It’s down 6% year to date, and if not for Apple, Microsoft, Home Depot and Walmart it would probably be down well over 10% and probably between 15% and 20%. In addition, the markets are lead economic indicators. Markets are pricing in a vaccine later in the year or early next year and is not reflecting the economy as it stands today.
Restaurants are booming, bars are busy, went to a resort last week that said this is their best year ever. Economic fear mongering is getting old...
 

dinglefritz

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Your odds may not even be that high.

If you're 18-25 and healthy, the odds of dying from COVID are statistically zero. When I say healthy, I don't include people with nutritionally compromised immune systems. Vegans I think could be at risk. People who don't get enough sunlight seem to have a higher risk. It would be interesting to see the CFR for vegans from COVID.
 

bingo65

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I'm just skeptical about the idea of having a vaccine so quickly when they typically take years to produce. The only problem I have with vaccines is the pertussis vaccine that almost killed me when I was a toddler. But thats personal and I haven't gone through enough therapy to talk about it yet.
i would have some healthy concern as well. i won't be the first one lining up to get vaccinated with a vaccine if its only been followed for a couple months in people. there's reasons why up to this point it takes 10 years. but i would probably consider it the following year.
 
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dinglefritz

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i would have some healthy concern as well. i won't be the first one lining up to get vaccinated with a vaccine if its only been followed for a couple months in people. there's reasons why up to this point it takes 10 years. but i would probably consider it the following year.
We come out with a new flu vaccine every year. We adjust the antigens to match the predicted prevalent strains. I think the risk of this new vaccine is WAY over stated compared to the risk of not taking the vaccine and getting the wild virus. IF you react unfavorably to the vaccine I think the odds are extremely high that you would die from infection with wild virus. Risk versus reward. Do you want to gamble that you'll survive COVID or do you want to side with the "I'll be the one out of 10 million who die from the vaccine"? I don't think we'll mandate vaccination.
 

Bart Man

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We come out with a new flu vaccine every year. We adjust the antigens to match the predicted prevalent strains. I think the risk of this new vaccine is WAY over stated compared to the risk of not taking the vaccine and getting the wild virus. IF you react unfavorably to the vaccine I think the odds are extremely high that you would die from infection with wild virus. Risk versus reward. Do you want to gamble that you'll survive COVID or do you want to side with the "I'll be the one out of 10 million who die from the vaccine"? I don't think we'll mandate vaccination.
It won’t be mandated and I would bet a lot of parents won’t vaccinate their children the first year. Most popular and less concerned will be 55+.