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This sounds a lot like 2008: "The republicans will never again have the white house or congress now that 50% of white people hate them and 100% of everyone else hates them." Nothing scarier to the left than thinking people might someday follow MLKjrs advice and focus on intangible rather than immutable traits. Identity politics is literally a pre-stoneage value system. A time when one small tribe of people would hate another small tribe based on face-painting differences. Sorry Dems, identity politics isn't the future, it's an idea/practice from our distant unevolved unenlightened past.
the republicans I know, very honorable people, slightly different opinions about business and social norms than myself but still fine folk, absolutely despise the Trump Party...but they will either not vote or vote red because of the team aspect of the election...voting for Biden equates to vote for AOC, Bernie, Gore...my fear is the republican party has thrown all of its chips in with Trump...and are either hoping to rely on a totalitarian style rule where Trump goes 8, and then a Trump disciple(family member) goes after that. If Trump is repudiated then all of the pandering, looking the other way, and the destruction of the moderate republican is going to leave the party looking for another Trump copy, or even Trump himself in 2024. I would give anything to have a Reagan or Bush I, or even McCain or Romney in Trump's position, and I've been a dem my whole life, and I am quite left in mypolicies, although relatively unemotional.
 
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the republicans I know, very honorable people, slightly different opinions about business and social norms than myself but still fine folk, absolutely despise the Trump Party...but they will either not vote or vote red because of the team aspect of the election...voting for Biden equates to vote for AOC, Bernie, Gore...my fear is the republican party has thrown all of its chips in with Trump...and are either hoping to rely on a totalitarian style rule where Trump goes 8, and then a Trump disciple(family member) goes after that. If Trump is repudiated then all of the pandering, looking the other way, and the destruction of the moderate republican is going to leave the party looking for another Trump copy, or even Trump himself in 2024. I would give anything to have a Reagan or Bush I, or even McCain or Romney in Trump's position, and I've been a dem my whole life, and I am quite left in mypolicies, although relatively unemotional.

I would like to see Democrats elect a JFK style president. I think the party has gone too far left, but we’ll see what the future holds.

I believe our country has great checks and balances so one person can’t ruin our nation.
 
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I think they must understand, it's not that hard to grasp, after all. What they're responding to is the idea that someone is telling them what to do, which causes them to act irrationally.

There is a big difference between being forced to do something against your will and being told that you cannot do something. One is essentially slavery, while the other describes the laws found in civilized society.

I question the judgment of anyone who sees no cause for concern in the mass power grab we have seen from many State and local governments this year.
 
the republicans I know, very honorable people, slightly different opinions about business and social norms than myself but still fine folk, absolutely despise the Trump Party...but they will either not vote or vote red because of the team aspect of the election...voting for Biden equates to vote for AOC, Bernie, Gore...my fear is the republican party has thrown all of its chips in with Trump...and are either hoping to rely on a totalitarian style rule where Trump goes 8, and then a Trump disciple(family member) goes after that. If Trump is repudiated then all of the pandering, looking the other way, and the destruction of the moderate republican is going to leave the party looking for another Trump copy, or even Trump himself in 2024. I would give anything to have a Reagan or Bush I, or even McCain or Romney in Trump's position, and I've been a dem my whole life, and I am quite left in mypolicies, although relatively unemotional.

Don't count on seeing another spineless jellyfish in the mold of a McCain or a Romney in President Trump's position anytime soon. President Trump is showing conservatives that it's possible for a Republican to have a backbone, and people are noticing this.
 
Not a Dem. And it's 2020, not 2008. You sound just like the type of person I am talking about. You have no idea what has happened since around 2008 and you have no idea what is about to be staring you in the face in the next 10-20 years. While you and the other conservatives were watching Fox News and parroting all their talking points while watching sports and doing all that fun stuff, the Dems were building up and consolidating all the media that your children consume, interact with, and beg you to buy for them. You know it's true because you hear your fellow conservatives complain about it all the time. How exactly are you going to roll back over a decade of power consolidation in technology that ensnared an entire generation of children?

True, over the course of the past 3 or 4 decades the Left/Dems have pretty much taken total control over higher education, mass media, hollywood, virtually all major cities, silicon valley and wall street. This is a big problem and should be a cause for concern for anyone who understands and cherishes our countries founding and our constitution.
 
dude I am no fan of the democratic party as it stands. Biden might have a level of decency because of the tragedy he has faced in his life and overcome or he might be an egomaniac who is driven by attention...idk...the party has a substance problem because it moved away from unifying issues like "workers rights", "pro-union", and into identity politics...which I might actually agree with but certainly neuters the party. Watching Hispanics die at 8x the rate as white people from covid, face horrible detention conditions, ICE, while providing the largest base of essential workers, and new businesses all the while having to hear the incessant cry of blm just exposes the identity issue. The different minority groups have different histories and different realities that have to be addressed. Treating minorities as a single group is gross, racist, but is something the dems find themselves continually doing, and not surprisingly they are gaining the educated white vote while losing the hispanic vote.

Unions are garbage.
 
True, over the course of the past 3 or 4 decades the Left/Dems have pretty much taken total control over higher education, mass media, hollywood, virtually all major cities, silicon valley and wall street. This is a big problem and should be a cause for concern for anyone who understands and cherishes our countries founding and our constitution.
They're the hand out party.

They want to hand stuff out to people with their hands out.

Nothing better personifies them better than flying around on private jets while claiming climate change is the next big threat. Pure hypocritical disingenuous trash.
 
Don't count on seeing another spineless jellyfish in the mold of a McCain or a Romney in President Trump's position anytime soon. President Trump is showing conservatives that it's possible for a Republican to have a backbone, and people are noticing this.

Spineless jellyfish in Romney of course, but McCain I disagree with that
 
Don't count on seeing another spineless jellyfish in the mold of a McCain or a Romney in President Trump's position anytime soon. President Trump is showing conservatives that it's possible for a Republican to have a backbone, and people are noticing this.
I suspect McCain handled his conditions in Hanoi much better than you would have.

And, right or left, I don't view people that aren't afraid to receive a mean tweet about themselves from the president as being spineless jellyfish.
 
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Still amazes me that people think masks work.
Oh, I don't know---
Comparing places:

POPULATION:
South Dakota- 884,000
San Francisco County, CA- 881,000

POPUATION DENSITY:
SD- 11.44 people/sq. mi.
SFC- 18,790 people/ sq. mi.

COVID-19 CASES:
SD- 23,522
SFC- 11,363

COVID-19 DEATHS:
SD- 237
SFC- 105

MASK/ SOCIAL DISTANCE REGS:
SD- No
SFC- Yes

No, masks don't stop it dead, but it looks like they might help contain/ slow transmission.

Of course, since the purpose of mask recommendations is to protect other people from the wearer of the mask, you can always tell the surgeon, next time that you get cut open, to not wear his/ her mask, since you don't think they do anything.
 
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What was it Trump days a couple weeks ago when asked about the 200,000 dead?

*Shrugs*" it is what it is."

Trump deserves just as much sympathy as the amount he's displayed towards other Americans

Not to mention it sounds like they were all infected last Saturday at their supreme Court circle jerk, and willingly and knowingly went around to numerous events while infected, including the debates where his whole family refused to wear a mask while sitting in front of Joe Biden.
 
After reading through this thread, on a nebraska board of all places, fairly surprised with the amount of people that have been completely duped by mainstream media into believing their outright lies and half truths... its shocking... and to think these same misinformed people will be voting this november.. god help us.
 
Unions are garbage.
It's comments like these that underscore just how easily humans forget or recreate their origin story. Unions are human institutions, and like all man made things they are corruptible, but garbage they are not. If it weren't for the efforts of workers to unionize we'd still have crop dusters dumping chemicals on farmhands and children working in mines.
 
The last few pages in this thread are a nice change from some of the political vitriol that has become common place here on this board. Thanks for a better discussion from both sides. I like what Eric Warfield tweeted out earlier:

I was expecting Warfield’s Tweet to finish with something like, “Now, if you tell me you’re an Iowa fan, then we can no longer be friends”. Laughing
 
Don't count on seeing another spineless jellyfish in the mold of a McCain or a Romney in President Trump's position anytime soon. President Trump is showing conservatives that it's possible for a Republican to have a backbone, and people are noticing this.
[/QUOTE]
Trump over a man who served his country with honor? Spineless? Gamma, you've got some issues.
 
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No matter who you support I think it's pretty safe to say that it's next to impossible to make anything stick to ANY billionaire. I'm not rooting for him to go to prison but I'm almost positive he's done some shady things, just like nearly every other politician or billionaire. The elite rich like Epstein can rape poor people's children and get a brief stint of house arrest and Epstein wasn't even close to being worth a billion. Personally I wouldn't lose a second of sleep if they all got Covid, and I'm far from a liberal.
There are multiple cases just in the past few years of wealthy people not being able to get away with rape of women or children. Roman Polanski is just one that comes to mind besides Epstein.
 
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The chances of a severe case drop dramatically if you have a mask on...regardless of where the virus came from...a case study on a cruise ship showed that mask wearing created a 95-100% asymptomatic rate...people still tested positive but didn't get symptoms...across all ages. The fact Trump rarely wears a mask makes this a little scary, but the person who infected him was a mask wearer and likely asymptomatic. The worst case scenario is coming in contact with a person who is about to get REALLY sick, while neither people are wearing a mask. This is what happened in March because the virus was pervasive before we knew it and mask wearing was random.
Your "information" is not accurate. There is no evidence that having worn a mask lowers your risk of developing severe disease. In THEORY, IF you receive a lower dose of virus you may not receive enough to become infected. That is called dose dependency. There is not scientific proof that wearing a mask "creates a 90-95% asymptomatic rate". That is blatantly false. It HAS become scientifically shown through retrospective studies that roughly half of all people have some natural immunity already to the virus that lends itself to having asymptomatic infections. Fauci has cited some of that work at different times in the past couple of months.
 
the republicans I know, very honorable people, slightly different opinions about business and social norms than myself but still fine folk, absolutely despise the Trump Party...but they will either not vote or vote red because of the team aspect of the election...voting for Biden equates to vote for AOC, Bernie, Gore...my fear is the republican party has thrown all of its chips in with Trump...and are either hoping to rely on a totalitarian style rule where Trump goes 8, and then a Trump disciple(family member) goes after that. If Trump is repudiated then all of the pandering, looking the other way, and the destruction of the moderate republican is going to leave the party looking for another Trump copy, or even Trump himself in 2024. I would give anything to have a Reagan or Bush I, or even McCain or Romney in Trump's position, and I've been a dem my whole life, and I am quite left in mypolicies, although relatively unemotional.
It isn't the "team aspect" your friends are voting for. It's Trump's policies including reining in the bureaucracy and illegal immigration. I myself don't like Trump but I love what he's tried to do with some of the out of control agencies, immigration and China. IF the Democrats had run a decent candidate 4 years ago, I might have been tempted to vote blue for the first time in a long long time. Now, no way I would vote blue. No way. Your party has gone off the deep end.
 
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The things I've heard discussed the most are some of his business deductions. He's right that they don't send you to jail for deductions. They send you to jail for failing to report income. Agressive tax accountants and attorneys tend to take every possible business expense deduction they can and then fight it out with the IRS later. There's a ton of gray areas in the tax code which are open to debate.
He used the tax loopholes to devalue his properties to pay lower taxes. He inflated the value of his properties to secure loans on those properties. So, it is either tax fraud or loan fraud - take your pick.
 
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Oh, I don't know---
Comparing places:

POPULATION:
South Dakota- 884,000
San Francisco County, CA- 881,000

POPUATION DENSITY:
SD- 11.44 people/sq. mi.
SFC- 18,790 people/ sq. mi.

COVID-19 CASES:
SD- 23,522
SFC- 11,363

COVID-19 DEATHS:
SD- 237
SFC- 105

MASK/ SOCIAL DISTANCE REGS:
SD- No
SFC- Yes

No, masks don't stop it dead, but it looks like they might help contain/ slow transmission.

Of course, since the purpose of mask recommendations is to protect other people from the wearer of the mask, you can always tell the surgeon, next time that you get cut open, to not wear his/ her mask, since you don't think they do anything.
The average age of residents in San Francisco County is a LOT younger than the average age of South Dakota residents. South Dakota has an extremely old population. MOST of the deaths in South Dakota are occurring right now in nursing home patients. They did their best with locking down nursing homes, mandating employees wear masks, limiting employee travel and behavior but now COVID is in just about every nursing home in the state. A nearby nursing home while having been locked down for months, finally has had multiple employees and patients test positive. Virtually all of the deaths in South Dakota have been elderly people. I can attest by my forays in to South Dakota that probably only half of the elderly I've seen out in public there are wearing masks unless they're in a store that requires it. They just don't care. They've led long lives and the attitude is "IF I get it and die, I die. I don't have much time left and I'm not going to waste a year of it sitting in my house".

Meanwhile South Dakota's economy is booming. Kids are back in school and playing sports. San Francisco? Not so much. The vast majority of South Dakota's economy relies on people who have to get up every morning and drive to work. Very few people can work from home in South Dakota. I would guess that the majority of San Francisco can work from home. There is a HUGE difference in the demographics between the 2 areas but you keep pushing your agenda.
 
It's comments like these that underscore just how easily humans forget or recreate their origin story. Unions are human institutions, and like all man made things they are corruptible, but garbage they are not. If it weren't for the efforts of workers to unionize we'd still have crop dusters dumping chemicals on farmhands and children working in mines.

Unions are pure garbage.
 
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It isn't the "team aspect" your friends are voting for. It's Trump's policies including reining in the bureaucracy and illegal immigration. I myself don't like Trump but I love what he's tried to do with some of the out of control agencies, immigration and China. IF the Democrats had run a decent candidate 4 years ago, I might have been tempted to vote blue for the first time in a long long time. Now, no way I would vote blue. No way. Your party has gone off the deep end.
I have a personal connection to the immigration debate, and from a policy standpoint I'm really on the fence. Every nation has a right to set policy within its borders, and it makes sense to me that a nation should know who is coming and going. I would add that we are lucky to be born in a country like the US, not everyone is so fortunate. Having said that, I despise the vilification of immigrants, as if the immigrants of previous generations were somehow pure of heart, while the immigrants of present are to be loathed. It's depressing how similar the conversation around immigrants and immigration has been over the years. This stuff isn't new, history is cyclical.

Bottom line, nobody wants to accept responsibility. Despite claims that Democrats widely support an open border policy, I've rarely heard that from the party. But to be honest I hardly hear Democrats offering any concrete policies on immigration. On the other hand, if the dyed-in-the-wool Republicans want to stricter enforcement, then building a wall and militarizing the border is bad policy. What do you think happens when you lock down the border? It makes getting illicit goods across the international line more lucrative for organized crime. You haven't stopped it, you've shot it full of steroids. Not to mention the corrupt officials paid to look the other way as drugs and people cross. It also destroys border communities, but I'm not going to get bogged down debating that point.

Immigrants come because there are jobs, and as long as people give them jobs they will continue to come. If I were in their shoes I'd probably do the same thing. If Americans want change, then you can't just punish the immigrants. Millions of jobs need to be filled and Americans aren't filling them, not unless you want to force Americans to work for the pitiful wages picking fields and cleaning toilets. This will never happen, but greatly expanding a visa program is a workable solution. People can come and go as long as they clear an extensive background check. People seem to forget that one of the main reasons so many immigrants stay is because of the high cost of getting here illegally. People used to come and go with the seasonal work. They didn't want to stay, and they didn't have to. But in this era of extreme enforcement, if you've put everything on the line, and you owe the cartels, you have no choice but to stay.
 
He used the tax loopholes to devalue his properties to pay lower taxes. He inflated the value of his properties to secure loans on those properties. So, it is either tax fraud or loan fraud - take your pick.
It's neither tax or loan fraud. Using a "tax loophole to devalue properties" is not tax fraud. You hire smart accountants and tax attorneys to try to minimize your taxes. IF there is a way to do that in the tax code, you do it. In my case, I use the section 179 expense deduction for a lot of my hard asset purchases. I MAXIMIZE any depreciation I'm allowed to by the tax code.

How does one inflate the value of your property to obtain a loan? Last time I checked it is the lending institution's responsibility to verify the value of the assets they are loaning money on. I've taken accounting, management and monetary and fiscal analysis in college. I've done my own taxes for about 30 years and my returns are in the 60-80 pages long area usually. IF you think that every business in American isn't trying to find a hole in tax law to minimize the tax they pay, you're foolish.

Large businesses employ dozens of CPAs, MPAs, and attorneys for the sole purpose of trying to make sure they pay as little tax as possible. Why in the hell would you want to pay more than the tax code says you have to pay? Good heavens you guys need to get over this idea that everything belongs to the government.
 
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Oh, I don't know---
Comparing places:

POPULATION:
South Dakota- 884,000
San Francisco County, CA- 881,000

POPUATION DENSITY:
SD- 11.44 people/sq. mi.
SFC- 18,790 people/ sq. mi.

COVID-19 CASES:
SD- 23,522
SFC- 11,363

COVID-19 DEATHS:
SD- 237
SFC- 105

MASK/ SOCIAL DISTANCE REGS:
SD- No
SFC- Yes

No, masks don't stop it dead, but it looks like they might help contain/ slow transmission.

Of course, since the purpose of mask recommendations is to protect other people from the wearer of the mask, you can always tell the surgeon, next time that you get cut open, to not wear his/ her mask, since you don't think they do anything.

You probably really believe this. I feel bad for you.




I know this one will blow your mind. Take some time.

 
Using a "tax loophole to devalue properties" is not tax fraud. You hire smart accountants and tax attorneys to try to minimize your taxes. IF there is a way to do that in the tax code, you do it. In my case, I use the section 179 expense deduction for a lot of my hard asset purchases. I MAXIMIZE any depreciation I'm allowed to by the tax code.

How does one inflate the value of your property to obtain a loan? Last time I checked it is the lending institution's responsibility to verify the value of the assets they are loaning money on. I've taken accounting, management and monetary and fiscal analysis in college. I've done my own taxes for about 30 years and my returns are in the 60-80 pages long area usually. IF you think that every business in American isn't trying to find a hole in tax law to minimize the tax they pay, you're foolish.

Large businesses employ dozens of CPAs, MPAs, and attorneys for the sole purpose of trying to make sure they pay as little tax as possible. Why in the hell would you want to pay more than the tax code says you have to pay? Good heavens you guys need to get over this idea that everything belongs to the government.

I think some people believe that Trump is sitting in a dark corner falsifying info on his 1040 EZ form laughing diabolically.

In reality he has a team of tax professionals finding any loophole to save him and his businesses cash.
 
He used the tax loopholes to devalue his properties to pay lower taxes. He inflated the value of his properties to secure loans on those properties. So, it is either tax fraud or loan fraud - take your pick.

Have you been smoking too much of the green stuff in CO?

Quick question. Why do we have tax attorneys?
 
I have a personal connection to the immigration debate, and from a policy standpoint I'm really on the fence. Every nation has a right to set policy within its borders, and it makes sense to me that a nation should know who is coming and going. I would add that we are lucky to be born in a country like the US, not everyone is so fortunate. Having said that, I despise the vilification of immigrants, as if the immigrants of previous generations were somehow pure of heart, while the immigrants of present are to be loathed. It's depressing how similar the conversation around immigrants and immigration has been over the years. This stuff isn't new, history is cyclical.

Bottom line, nobody wants to accept responsibility. Despite claims that Democrats widely support an open border policy, I've rarely heard that from the party. But to be honest I hardly hear Democrats offering any concrete policies on immigration. On the other hand, if the dyed-in-the-wool Republicans want to stricter enforcement, then building a wall and militarizing the border is bad policy. What do you think happens when you lock down the border? It makes getting illicit goods across the international line more lucrative for organized crime. You haven't stopped it, you've shot it full of steroids. Not to mention the corrupt officials paid to look the other way as drugs and people cross. It also destroys border communities, but I'm not going to get bogged down debating that point.

Immigrants come because there are jobs, and as long as people give them jobs they will continue to come. If I were in their shoes I'd probably do the same thing. If Americans want change, then you can't just punish the immigrants. Millions of jobs need to be filled and Americans aren't filling them, not unless you want to force Americans to work for the pitiful wages picking fields and cleaning toilets. This will never happen, but greatly expanding a visa program is a workable solution. People can come and go as long as they clear an extensive background check. People seem to forget that one of the main reasons so many immigrants stay is because of the high cost of getting here illegally. People used to come and go with the seasonal work. They didn't want to stay, and they didn't have to. But in this era of extreme enforcement, if you've put everything on the line, and you owe the cartels, you have no choice but to stay.
The key is they need to come here legally. Do that and I'm fine with it. Most legal immigrants are infuriated by the ones who get here illegally. Then there's the asylum seekers. Gaining entrance in to our country because yours is dangerous isn't a reason for asylum. I had an Uber driver in Napa last fall tell me that he was here on political asylum. He had managed somehow to get here from Portugal. He claimed to still own 5 businesses in Brazil which were being run by family and his wife and children were still there. He said that if he had stayed his life was in jeopardy. Yeah right. He and a Brazilian buddy were using Uber as a front so they could get their customers to call them on their cell phone directly and cut Uber out of the deal. I ran in to the same deal in Boston this past spring. We're being over run with illegal immigrants.
 
No, masks don't stop it dead, but it looks like they might help contain/ slow transmission.

Of course, since the purpose of mask recommendations is to protect other people from the wearer of the mask, you can always tell the surgeon, next time that you get cut open, to not wear his/ her mask, since you don't think they do anything.

You really have no clue what you're talking about. But I'm sure you're one of the idiots screaming follow the science.


 
Using a "tax loophole to devalue properties" is not tax fraud. You hire smart accountants and tax attorneys to try to minimize your taxes. IF there is a way to do that in the tax code, you do it. In my case, I use the section 179 expense deduction for a lot of my hard asset purchases. I MAXIMIZE any depreciation I'm allowed to by the tax code.

How does one inflate the value of your property to obtain a loan? Last time I checked it is the lending institution's responsibility to verify the value of the assets they are loaning money on. I've taken accounting, management and monetary and fiscal analysis in college. I've done my own taxes for about 30 years and my returns are in the 60-80 pages long area usually. IF you think that every business in American isn't trying to find a hole in tax law to minimize the tax they pay, you're foolish.

Large businesses employ dozens of CPAs, MPAs, and attorneys for the sole purpose of trying to make sure they pay as little tax as possible. Why in the hell would you want to pay more than the tax code says you have to pay? Good heavens you guys need to get over this idea that everything belongs to the government.
I think this conversation about Trump's taxes has become very speculative. Can he take deductions? Of course, and it would appear that many of the deductions taken were legal. But there also appear to be some questionable deductions along with other concerning aspects of his tax returns. He is being investigated on multiple fronts. In spite of the popular refrain "fake news," this not so simple.
 
I think this conversation about Trump's taxes has become very speculative. Can he take deductions? Of course, and it would appear that many of the deductions taken were legal. But there also appear to be some questionable deductions along with other concerning aspects of his tax returns. He is being investigated on multiple fronts. In spite of the popular refrain "fake news," this not so simple.
Questionable deductions are taken by every single business in America. Then IF the IRS flags a deduction and disallows it, you are allowed to dispute that action. Your accountant meets with an IRS agent and they explain the deduction. It's pretty standard procedure. You take ALL of the deductions your accountants think you're entitled to. Usually they all fly. IF they don't you pay the tax the IRS says you owe. You don't go to jail for your deductions. You go to jail for failing to report income.
 
I think some people believe that Trump is sitting in a dark corner falsifying info on his 1040 EZ form laughing diabolically.

In reality he has a team of tax professionals finding any loophole to save him and his businesses cash.
exactly. It's comical. But then again when your answer is to give everything to the government then let the government decide who gets what.......
 
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