Rose-Ivey

Discussion in 'Husker Board' started by KingBlackshirt, Sep 26, 2016.

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  1. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    And that's fine to not allow them to go back to their vehicle. I say again, the populace will tolerate cops jumping on a dude, using the taser, using spray if he's acting crazy.

    It's the part where the service weapon is Plan A that is a problem. A guy gets in your face like that, by all means get him on the ground. For the safety of police they need to understand that when guns go in people's faces, panic sets in all around that situation.

    It's a dangerous enough job without giving people reason to label police as murderers. That mindset of, "When in doubt we'll shoot you because it's your life or mine, and it sure as shit ain't gonna be mine" is exactly how you get people who think the police are there for the police's best interest, not the public's.
     
  2. Husker4114

    Husker4114 Newbie
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    That's a silly question. I expect to not have a gun pointed at me unnecessarily. Also when it comes to shooting ANYONE I expect all officers to be perfect. It's someone's life. Are you saying that it's wrong for us to expect police not to shoot anyone unnecessarily??? If the first thing you do as a police officer is hop out of the car and pull a gun on someone that is an issue.
     
    202 Husker4114, Sep 27, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
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  3. Oahe

    Oahe Walk On
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    Wasn't this the same kind and thoughtful kid that got suspended last year for the BYU game?
     
  4. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    Exactly. People struggle with this idea that if people aren't super happy to see the cops that it's fine to shoot them "because you don't know what they might do." I don't expect them to be perfect. I don't expect them not to be scared.

    I do expect them to abide by the same laws civilians are subject to, which is basically 1) you don't get to beat people just because they pissed you off 2) you don't get to kill people because they scared you.
     
  5. Husker4114

    Husker4114 Newbie
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    Now, I answered your question but it doesn't seem that I got my question answered. Just skated around it.
     
  6. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    I didn't catch the question. What was it?
     
  7. Husker4114

    Husker4114 Newbie
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    Are you saying that it's wrong for us to expect police not to shoot anyone unnecessarily???
     
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  8. B1G RED RULES

    B1G RED RULES Senior
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    Correct. Creating awareness does very little. Leadership and action do...but unfortunately there is no action with this movement as well. Pretty easy to see the black community will be in a worse poition in another 50 years if this is their solution. Very unfortunate.
     
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  9. ThrowTheBones

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    I don't think it's wrong, but I do think it is unrealistic. We have hundreds of thousands of officers across thousands of metropolitan areas. Some of them are bound to make mistakes and some are probably just not good people. I don't think it is wrong to expect all citizens of the United States to follow it's laws either, but it is equally unrealistic for the same reason. The vast majority of people live within the law and the vast majority of police do a good job.

    Unlike the 70's (as brought up earlier), I would also like to believe that the vast majority of people in this country are open minded and accept others for who they are, regardless of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. There will always be those that aren't tolerant of others for one reason or another, but I don't see how painting broad brush strokes over entire groups of people (whether we are talking about minorities or police officers) can be anything but toxic when the problems (at least from my middle America perspective - which may be totally off base) seem to be pretty isolated and not a systemic flaw in the system like in the recent past.

    We can strive for perfection, but failure of a few is not necessarily indicative of failure of society.
     
  10. HuskerNorm

    HuskerNorm Walk On
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    +1 to ThrowTheBones. Nice to see someone in this thread gets it and isn't readying the pitchforks.
     
  11. Husker4114

    Husker4114 Newbie
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    I can agree the few don't mean that there is failure, but at the same time when folks are dismissive of the complaints of those being effected by those few there becomes another issue.
     
  12. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Quick question - the criminals that were going around making fake checks that you and your friends were confused for, did they have a record for any violent crimes? Where they believed to be armed? Because you see they weren't pulling husker4114 over. They were pulling over the guys that they believed were printing bogus checks. Those individuals who may or may not have had a violent criminal history and who may or may not have been armed. You were the victim of mistaken identity. They pulled you over because you matched the description based on skin color wise. Does that suck? Sure it does. But we have only been provided the details from one perspective and how it affected one individual. I am not saying it didn't go down like you say, I am saying that the law enforcement officers that pulled you over may well have seen things much differently.
     
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  13. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    Not at all. I think that should be one of our most basic expectations of anyone, police included. "Don't shoot somebody if you can possibly help it" seems so simple that it blows my mind that people can even argue over it.

    Police don't have any problem being called heroes and receiving those showers of accolades, but then when we expect them to act better and smarter than the criminals they arrest suddenly we're being unfair and we don't get how hard it is. No...we get it...that's why you get all this respect and standing ovations for putting on that uniform.

    DISCLAIMER: Let's admit that HuffPost is very left-leaning and not fuss over the narrative of this. But just look at that graph and consider the joke in justice circles that Disorderly Conduct is referred to as "contempt of cop." This is a fascinating phenomenon and it lends some credence to the idea that there are, in fact, some red-asses out there who wanna give you the business and run you through the system if you piss them off but you haven't actually committed a crime.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...y-conduct-charges_us_57e94d56e4b0e80b1ba32d57
     
  14. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    I think you're exactly right. Here's the catch:

    When civilians screw up, we expect that we will be subject to the appropriate penalties. Cops are human, so when they screw up as humans do, there needs to be accountability.

    What seems to happen to often is that when a cop screws up, the police and the DA want to circle the wagons and not pursue any charges. You can't have 2 of the 3 facets of being human. People want us to treat cops like humans and allow human mistakes, but then have them elevated to a superhuman level that is beyond admitting mistakes and being punished for mistakes. Doesn't work like that.

    As humans, we can accept that other humans make mistakes AS LONG AS that mistake is admitted, and something is done to make it right. You go out to eat and they burn your food, you'll get over it if they'll just say to you, "That's our mistake, your food isn't supposed to be like that. We're gonna re-make it and your meal is on us tonight." You'll come back and eat there again.

    But if somebody stands there and tries to tell you that it's partly your fault your food is burned because you should have ordered it rare, that's gonna piss you off. You're gonna feel like they care more about being right than doing what's right.
     
  15. Bruce1981

    Bruce1981 Sophomore
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    I don't know if the younger population will stop electing the politicians that write too many laws that force the police to make as much contact as they do. I have a feeling the politicians they elect it will lead to more.

    Sometimes jumping on a guy isn't going to get the job done. The vast majority of these shootings were justified. Hands up don't shoot was a lie so the BLM movement in itself was started on a lie. And I don't expect a cop to take a beating. Most men can deliver a lethal blow with their fist if they hit someone in the right spot.

    It's not wrong. It's naive.
     
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  16. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Hmmmm let's see

    The possibility of my actions leading directly to my food being burnt by a chef when out to eat. <.05%

    The Possibility of my actions leading directly to me being shot when pulled over by law enforcement. >.05%

    Please use a better example
     
  17. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    Can I get a source on that math? Cause I feel like the source was your anal cavity.
     
  18. Harry Caray

    Harry Caray Head Coach
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    I respect his right to protest and speak his mind. I don't really see the correlation between the Star-Spangled Banner and racial injustice - the American flag represents the side that won the civil war and put an end to slavery, and the country that stopped a racist tyrant during WWII. Yes, things are far from perfect, but this is an imperfect world.

    It seems to me that if you want to enact change, it's mostly going to start at the local and city level by supporting and electing good people to those political positions, and with people taking initiative by cleaning up their own communities and establishing more positive relationships between law enforcement and citizens.
     
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  19. ThrowTheBones

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    Agreed. And just because incidents may be isolated as a whole does not mean that there isn't a localized problem in a specific area due to any number of factors (poor training, poor management, etc.).

    It seems to me that no matter what side of the argument a person is on, no one can really argue if justice is applied in these cases. The problem therein lies in how to gain the trust of the community in which the crime occurred so that all parties will accept that justice has been delivered, no matter the outcome of the investigation. Would a federal task force and prosecutor unrelated to the jurisdiction or city have enough credibility to be accepted by both sides or would the community still suspect that police on all levels "look out for their own"? I don't really know but it seems to be a talking point that could at least be a start.
     
  20. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    It's a stupid analogy. A chef or restaurant not taking responsibility for burning my food does not in any possible way equate to events that would escalate to a police officer shooting or killing an innocent and/or unarmed person.
     
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  21. B1G RED RULES

    B1G RED RULES Senior
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    The hip hop community is helping with their message of peace. "Hip hop is smart and insightful – this is where the kids are getting their information, not the newspaper.". Barack Obama

    http://www.tightrope.cc/rap.htm

    “Hope they know my n–a gutter, f— kidnap kids, f— em in the a– throw ’em over the bridge.”
    “Tired of my face, Telling lies gettin’ n—s wives tied up and raped.”
    “Our navy, our ate and leave and rape your lady, Or maybe take more whores, show me your titty.”
    “And you call this sh– rape but I think that rape’s fun”

    Some inspiring words many of these persecuted people have blasting in their ears...
     
  22. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    It's monumental that they are going to charge that lady in Tulsa. Now I'll drop my jaw if she gets convicted, but that's another situation.

    When there's no clear consensus among experts as to whether use of lethal forces was justified, there needs to be an indictment, a manslaughter trial, do SOMETHING to make it look like the people in the justice system care about whether the shooting was just.
     
  23. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    I apologize for my unacceptable analogy. Please feel free to provide a better one and we'll use that.
     
  24. HuskerBlueDevil

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    This is one small area and a statistically invalid example. But I have been appalled and simply stopped being friends with a number of law enforcement officers when I saw there attitude change over the last 10 years. It used to be very much "serve and protect". They weren't about putting their lives in unnecessary danger and being "don't shoot at all costs" and I never expected them to be. They work in a sometimes violent arena. But they made no bones about their change in attitude from a motto of serve and protect to a motto of "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6". I have sat at a table with 8 law enforcement officer and heard them say I plan to go home to my family every night and if that means I shoot some guy who maybe I shouldn't have, so be it. I will shoot the SOB and if that means that my kids have to visit me in jail, they still get to visit me. Like I said, I have severed any ties with those 8 and several others for the same reason.
     
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  25. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    You know there are bands that do white supremacy music, right? Shall I hold you accountable for that dumb crap?
     
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  26. B1G RED RULES

    B1G RED RULES Senior
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    Meanwhile, over 26 people have been shot in Chicago alone since this thread has started and as we reflect upon this. I'm sure the victims are feeling good knowing there is awareness about a handful of shootings around the US.
     
  27. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    It's your point, you provide the better analogy. I don't know what your trying to say
     
  28. B1G RED RULES

    B1G RED RULES Senior
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    Im guessing they have not been invited to the White House. Would you like to explore who has?
     
  29. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    Yep. I've seen it from cops' wives a lot lately, that very same mentality of "Better that my husband live out my days having killed somebody who didn't have to die than to risk getting shot."

    Saw ALL that sentiment over that guy up where who embezzled a bunch of money then killed himself and tried to make it look like he was killed in the line of duty. You wanna talk about people having their angry reaction and then falling silent after the facts come out.

    You weren't drafted to be a cop. It's not required. Go do something else if you're that scared. Everybody needs welders.
     
  30. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    I laid out the point that it's about police being held accountable just the way civilians are at least a couple of times. It's not my job to frame it in a way you can follow. Everyone else seems to get it and you're still hung up on burnt food.
     
  31. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    I'll let you do it. I wouldn't wanna hijack your narrative on the road to "Everything that is wrong with race relations today is Obama's fault somehow" land
     
  32. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    I have severed ties with 8 gang bangers. Back when they started bangin' their motto was to protect the youth of the community because the police weren't. Just the other day at the dinner table, they said they were going to start shooting and killing police just because. So I severed my relationships.

    Next week on A&E's Things I Write on Internet Forums to Prove a Point.
     
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  33. GBRhuskers

    GBRhuskers Junior
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    First off, it's not monumental, it happens often. Secondly, "that lady" has already been charged.
     
  34. tarheelhusker

    tarheelhusker Defensive Coordinator
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    On the other hand, it keeps the race pimps in lots of $$$'s & preaching hate. Job security.
     
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  35. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    What you are failing to see is the actual danger associated with police work when you compare it to that of a chef. Every day jobs simply aren't the same as law enforcement jobs. If I make a mistake in my job, I still get to come home alive and not in a body bag. You seem to be living life out of a text book. you sound like the guy who went to college from 18-26, got a doctorate in sociology, started teaching at the local university at 27 and telling everyone how it should be. I challenge you to do a ride along. Or take the shoot or don't shoot simulator. Think of what it's like to have your life on the line if you make a simple mistake.

    Can we do better? Should we do better? Absolutely. But you and you Utopian world need a bit of reality.
     
  36. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    That why you do it? The money?
     
  37. Lincoln100

    Lincoln100 Recruiting Coordinator
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    Please God end this thread. Amen. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
     
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  38. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    Bachelor's in Psychology but thank you.

    Again, nobody is saying the job isn't difficult or dangerous. BECAUSE I don't want cops to be killed, I don't want them in a position to be poorly trained. I don't want them in a position to be encouraged to fear for their lives and to pull their weapon before they're taught proper de-escalation.

    I don't want to see any more videos where the scene is swarmed with officers, there's one guy, no gun out, who could be gotten with tasers, and then some cop panics and puts 9 rounds in him. That is BAD for cops.

    There are police chiefs who are denouncing these incidents. There are municipalities where they have dropped their use of force dramatically without having to trade it for officers' blood.

    It's not an either-or proposition.
     
  39. TheBeav815

    TheBeav815 Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    Depends on what your definition of "all the time" is. 41 times in a 6 year stretch out of a number that is not officially tracked? Maybe.

    "Comprehensive nationwide numbers of how many police officers kill individuals while on duty do not exist.

    The FBI does record "justifiable homicides" by police officers. There were 461 such homicides in 2013, but by definition, this doesn't include the number of police charged with a crime for on-duty actions.

    And reporting these statistics to the FBI is voluntary. In addition, even police agencies who report their overall crime numbers are not required to submit additional data on homicides, justified or not.

    Mr Stinson's own research found 41 police officers were charged with murder or manslaughter between 2005 and 2011. In the same time period, the FBI recorded several thousand justifiable homicides."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30339943
     
  40. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    I don't want there to be criminals. I don't want felons on the streets with illegally purchased guns. I don't want innocent people to take off running when they see police. I want store owners to feel safe inside their stores and that someone outside isn't selling drugs and inticing more illegal activities. I want a police officer to be able to walk up to a group of people and not fear that one of them is going to turn around and open fire.

    The problem is that there have been officers killed when approaching a group of individuals they assumed to be harmless. Innocent store owners are harrassed or killed. Innocent people do run when they have no reason to run. Police officers are killed by illegally purchased firearms. When this happens your guard gets up, you say that won't happen to me. It isn't simply a matter of training. Again I challenge you to go for the ride along and to try that simulator.
     
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