OT: The PGA Tour, LIV Golf and the NCAA
- Thread starter king_kong_
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Because they are trying to get the stuffiness and elitism shit out of golf. PGA had a chance to correct a ton of this and has refused. PGA tour events were boring as hell. LIV added fun similar to the Waste Management to try and get a more youthful crowd by having music, concerts and a better atmosphere. They've let the players wear what they want (shorts), they've incorporated the team thing, just all kinds of attempts to make the game better. The PGA had every opportunity to do these things but lack vision and have a large amount of greediness. Change was needed and the PGA failed to adjust. Not that hard of a concept.
BTW...when does OP get out of message board jail? Place ain't the same without him.
so it's generational. because everything you wrote there, i personally loathe. i don't watch the waste management tournament for all the reasons you do. players wearing shorts, good grief. like you're into seeing their legs? i mean if it was the lpga, i would get that, but men?
so you look past the loss of merit based golf for exhibitionism. team golf, contracts, wth? i guess that's just american culture today. it gets reflected in so many ways - taylor swift taking on so much importance for no reason other than pop culture.
whatever, golf will lose most of the olds like me but perhaps they'll be replaced by youngsters. the world goes on with or without us. thanks for the explanation. there's no right or wrong here, i guess. your response didn't surprise me.
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I have been to the Waste management. It’s fun and I think tje golfers enjoy it . But they wouldn’t want that atmosphere each week . Could you imagine that kind of atmosphere at Augusta National and the Masters. The LIV players put up with it because of the millions of reasons they have. Any true golf traditionalist knows that’s not what golf tournaments are like any they are not supposed to be.
The thing is, there is a place for both of those types of events in the golf world. One of the biggest priorities for the PGA should be to grow golf in as many different ways possible. Not be stuck in the same elitist model they have had forever. There is still a place for "traditional" golf, like at the Masters and other typical PGA events. There is also a place for a new type of golf for the younger generation, which is what LIV provides (and also the TGL, which is starting soon). While LIV has a team aspect to it, there is also the same individual component and crowning a champion at each event (i.e. "merit"). A person could say that LIV has much better talent than the PGA these days, at least top-heavy talent. Why wouldn't a person want to watch them play?
I am probably older than most posters on here and love my traditional way of golf. I also like the way the LIV is doing things. It takes some getting used to, but LIV is growing on me. My son had a class at UNL last year and his papers were on the golf industry (he is in PGM program). In doing research he found that the largest growth area in golf is not at people playing at a golf course but it is places like Top Golf. I don't look down on those that prefer Top Golf to playing at a golf course.
To me, the key is to not place people in silos where they can only enjoy 1 way over the others. To put it another way, I love football. I prefer CFB to the NFL, but I don't get upset with those that love the NFL more than CFB.
Your shorts comment is dumb as ****. No, it's not about looking at their legs, it's the fact that golf is played in high heat and not everyone wants to play in slacks or wear a polo for that matter. The PGA being so rigid on that is stupid as hell. I'm guessing you wear slacks every time you play golf in the summer? If you do, good on your but to me you are dumb and part of the problem.
It doesn't matter what I think and hell yes it is generational. You aren't ever going to grow a game just catering to the old guard. There is probably a middle ground to attract both, but having been to several PGA tour events and majors and a LIV event or Waste Management, I would choose LIV or Waste Management every time. I like the more sporting atmosphere and not cry baby golfers pissing and whining about a slight amount of noise.
I love golf and play a ton of it. The PGA had a chance to listen to the players and really correct a lot of the issues that they were saying would grow the game. Instead they ****ed around and now they are finding out. Sounds like Viktor Hovland (The 4th ranked player) could be set to jump next, but yeah LIV sucks so much and should have just catered to the olds... PGA ****ed up.
It doesn't have to be that every week. I agree that Augusta and the other majors shouldn't have that atmosphere of just a full on party, but you can lighten it up a little bit, although Augusta is perfect and I wouldn't change a thing at that event.
your abrasive reply is also generational and telling. but no, i generally play golf in shorts at the lake course. and i've attended tournaments too, including the masters and ladies open but not the waste. what a waste on my part. i'm just not into hooting, hollering, and drunks.
The reason the players are jumping to the LIV has nothing to do with them to wear shorts in a golf tournament. You honestly can’t be be this dense.
another cogent argument by liv supporter who thinks this is about freedom and short pants. are you wearing liv shorts and blaring their music in the basement today? wow!
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I support all golf, but I think LIV is way ahead of the PGA. They are forward thinking and are acting on it and everything they have done has caused panic in the PGA. The PGA is now having to adjust while a bunch of their top tier players are leaving for this group. If the PGA tour was so ****in awesome, why would all of this top talent be leaving? Yes, the money is fantastic, but there are plenty of reasons. Like I said captain powertowel, LIV is more forward thinking and are trying to figure out how to grow the game and one of the biggest parts of that is engaging the new generation. Just catering to all of the old blue hairs that hate change isn't going to make golf better. Once again, the best senario probably falls somewhere in the middle, but you have to change. Not sure why you can't grasp that.
liv's talent was 100% developed on the pga tour. they are being bought now by the saudi government for numbers that are incomprehensible to most. whether liv survives or not is unclear to many of us who have followed the pga for decades. we simply do not get the consumer lure of liv. exactly what are they playing for other than their contracts, not merit.
Remind me, where can you watch these exhibition matches? Oh yeah, on a website or the cartoon network for a couple of hours or until the sponge bob reruns start. Your definition of killing it must be different than mine.
Lol.
Cant Imagine the personal bias needed to think this has anything to do with anything other than the money or fomo regarding said money.
I am not some gray hair (a straw-man argument to make his animosity and case look better) but I have zero motivation to watch a liv event.
However, I will agree that the pga sucks in a lot of ways too. I just think its silly to say it is about more than the money. No its the money, 1000%.
They are a start up league that continues to take the top talent from the PGA. So yeah…. They are. Give it time
Money is always the main driver, but PGA is so far behind the times on how to grow the game. Never once said it wasn’t.
Well no shit? Where else would it have been developed? That was the only game in town. Also what merit outside of majors is the PGA tour bringing? Oh great I’m the ATT pro am winner. No one ****in cares. Golfers are in it for cash and majors.
PGA Tour Nets $3 Billion Payday as LIV Golf Merger Deal Looms
The PGA Tour set to earn a $3 billion in deal with the Strategic Sports Group amid the pending merger with LIV Golf.
www.breitbart.com
Looks like merger deal is happening. Didn’t see in the article that there were many details.
do you talk that way to your parents or just while pounding their pc?
merit based golf means professionals come up through the ranks, qualify for tournaments, get their pga card, and then play in tournaments where the low score wins the trophy and much of the pay.
rather than, in jon rahm's case, being on $300 million saudi liv contract based on his pga tour record, playing exhibitions in shorts, with loud music, and hootin' and hollerin' bubbas.
it's rather like in football where ohio state raids nebraska's roster, pays them an nil bundle, and wins the natty before a lot of screaming nutso fans.
Are you saying the merger with LIV and the PGA? I don't think this is a merger deal with LIV, it's other investors giving up to $3B to the PGA for partial ownership. It seems like this makes a merger with LIV less likely.PGA Tour Nets $3 Billion Payday as LIV Golf Merger Deal Looms
The PGA Tour set to earn a $3 billion in deal with the Strategic Sports Group amid the pending merger with LIV Golf.
Looks like merger deal is happening. Didn’t see in the article that there were many details.
Low score still wins a trophy and a big pay day. Like I said, golfers are in it for cash and majors. They don't give two shits about anything else. Also, all golfers come up the same way and at some point they either go to LIV, PGA, or some sort of mini tour. It's the same as anything, You come up through the ranks and earn your spot somewhere. PGA has more spots currently, but that isn't to say some of the best college golfers may not opt to LIV as they grow. If the situation was the same, and John Rahm was at AZ St. currently with Tim Mickelson as the coach, you bet your ass Phil would try to get him on LIV. Phil has called Rahm's success since day 1 and LIV is probably evaluating college golfers right now as they expand. Yes, he may not have got the pay day right away, but he'd have a chance to earn a shit load of money by winning.
You may be correct. I wasn't quite clear on the specifics. I just got the sense that things are moving. Not sure in what direction, but moving nonetheless.
Okay, so I do consider myself as a decent golf fan. I usually have the golf channel on in my office on Thursdays and Friday afternoon to watch the PGA. So I turned it on today to catch the first leg of the Florida swing. Now I know this isn't a big tournament (The Arnold Palmer at Bay Hill is next week), but holy cow the leaderboard is absolutely full of no names. I suppose I had heard of maybe a little over half of the guys, but when you compare it to the LIV tour leaderboard in Jeddah, man I really think the PGA may be in trouble. Below are the side by side leaderboards.
| POS | PLAYER | SCORE | TODAY | THRU | R1 | R2 | R3 | R4 | TOT | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2 |
| -10 | -4 | 13 | 65 | -- | -- | -- | 65 | |
| T2 | 16 | 
| -9 | -5 | F | 67 | 66 | -- | -- | 133 | |
| T2 | 7 | 
| -9 | -4 | F | 66 | 67 | -- | -- | 133 | |
| T4 | 1 | 
| -8 | -2 | F | 65 | 69 | -- | -- | 134 | |
| T4 | 12 |
| -8 | -4 | 9 | 67 | -- | -- | -- | 67 | |
| T4 | 12 | 
| -8 | -4 | 7 | 67 | -- | -- | -- | 67 | |
| T7 | 4 |
| -7 | -1 | 13 | 65 | -- | -- | -- | 65 | |
| T7 | 2 |
| -7 | -2 | 11 | 66 | -- | -- | -- | 66 | |
| T7 | 23 |
| -7 | -4 | 10 | 68 | -- | -- | -- | 68 | |
| T7 | 9 |
| -7 | -3 | 10 | 67 | -- | -- | -- | 67 | |
| T7 | 2 |
| -7 | -2 | 8 | 66 | -- | -- | -- | 66 | |
| T12 | 18 | 
| -6 | -3 | F | 68 | 68 | -- | -- | 136 | |
| T12 | 4 | 
| -6 | -2 | F | 67 | 69 | -- | -- | 136 | |
| T12 | 4 |
| -6 | -2 | 11 | 67 | -- | -- | -- | 67 | |
| T12 | 4 | 
| -6 | -2 | 10 | 67 | -- | -- | -- | 67 | |
| T12 | 9 |
| -6 | E | 9 | 65 | -- | -- | -- | 65 | |
| T12 | 9 |
| -6 | E | 6 | 65 | -- | -- | -- | 65 | |
| T18 | 53 |
| -5 | -4 | F | 70 | 67 | -- | -- | 137 |
| Pos | Player name | Less HOLE PAR YDS | 1 4 361 | 2 4 439 | 3 3 206 | 4 5 569 | 5 4 427 | 6 4 470 | 7 4 381 | 8 3 177 | 9 4 498 | 10 4 372 | 11 3 173 | 12 4 459 | 13 4 492 | 14 4 433 | 15 4 427 | 16 3 169 | 17 4 388 | 18 5 607 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 
Adrian Meronk Cleeks GC | -8 Completed | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | |
Jon Rahm C Legion XIII | -8 Completed | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | ||
| 3 | 
Charl Schwartzel Stinger GC | -7 Completed | 3 | 3 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 5 | |
B DeChambeau C | -7 Completed | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 4 | ||
J Niemann C | -7 Completed | 4 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | ||
| 6 | 
L Oosthuizen C | -6 Completed | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | |
| 7 | 
T Hatton | -5 Completed | 4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | |
B Steele | -5 Completed | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 5 | ||
T Gooch | -5 Completed | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | ||
J Kozuma | -5 Completed | 4 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 4 | ||
L Herbert | -5 Completed | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 2 | 3 | 4 | ||
P Reed | -5 Completed | 4 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | ||
P Mickelson C | -5 Completed | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | ||
| 14 | 
D Johnson C | -4 Completed | 3 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | |
C Surratt | -4 Completed | 3 | 3 | 3 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 5 | ||
K Na C | -4 Completed | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 5 | ||
| 17 | 
C Howell III | -3 Completed | 4 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 4 | 5 | |
Nobody likes LIV. Nobody.
Everybody hates that this has happened.
This has been stated over and over and over in direct replies to you in this very thread over the course of now years.
The PGA has nobody but themselves to blame for completely blowing it & allowing their product to be completely gutted by an outside competitor purely due to the fact they were too hubristic and closed minded to meaningfully partner with the people they depend on (the players) despite good faith efforts by the players to do so.
There’s a reason I paired the PGA with the NCAA in the title. Their fates appear to be running parallel to one another because they fell victim to the exact same line of antiquated thinking.
While I agree that PGA leaderboard is less than impressive, that LIV leaderboard is...not very impressive either. Names I recognize? Sure. Mostly well past their prime or young talent that never really gave themselves a chance to prove it. Some of the guys like Rahm should be able to absolutely dominate, if they still care enough to take their game seriously.
I'm afraid the result of all of this is that both products suck. Hope they can figure it out.
I'm afraid the result of all of this is that both products suck. Hope they can figure it out.
They’re bleeeding billions but don’t seem to care. Their goal is to stick it to our country and continue to erode our society.
Yes. I think competition is usually good for business, and even moreso for the consumer, but the capitalist tradition/definition of competition doesn't usually factor in one party with unlimited resources, seemingly with no regard for whether or not their product will ever be financially viable.
it's sad watching this sport die before our very eyes mastermind by the saudies. i haven't watch an ounce of golf this year. would normally have seen most of the "clambake" and certainly bogart's riviera tree tourney. but alas, like the man himself, the glamour and fun of professional golf is quickly disappearing for this ole duffer. but look, they get to wear shorts.
Get over it. There’s still lots of very good young golfers playing this weekend. Some of these guys are getting their shot because of the LIV defections and are showing they can compete. Knapp is a great player who can compete with any of the defectors. Some of the reason we’re not seeing “names” on the leaderboards is that they’re getting outplayed by younger golfers. It’s fun to watch.it's sad watching this sport die before our very eyes mastermind by the saudies. i haven't watch an ounce of golf this year. would normally have seen most of the "clambake" and certainly bogart's riviera tree tourney. but alas, like the man himself, the glamour and fun of professional golf is quickly disappearing for this ole duffer. but look, they get to wear shorts.
The sport isn’t dying because the PGA Tour’s brand is suffering from their own hubristic inactionit's sad watching this sport die before our very eyes mastermind by the saudies. i haven't watch an ounce of golf this year. would normally have seen most of the "clambake" and certainly bogart's riviera tree tourney. but alas, like the man himself, the glamour and fun of professional golf is quickly disappearing for this ole duffer. but look, they get to wear shorts.
Just like college football isn’t dying because the NCAA is finally out of the way
what happens with college football is yet to be determined. it is certainly in transition. the death of the p12 was not a good omen.
as for golf, i'm not sure other than seeing my own interest wane. i represent a very large core of golf fans, the plus 60s crew.
my sense is that both sports are going the way of major league baseball. you can read into that whatever you choose.
It’s just a Golf is not very watchable for the average person. I play and it’s still mostly good for getting an afternoon nap in except when majors are on. LIV has just made it more like other sports- teams, competitions between teams, etc..
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