Terrible way for this to end the way it did. All the camera footage I saw pointed towards a legitimate self defense action on his part.
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If details come out, guessing depression will be a major factor.
Completely avoidable situation by everyone involved ends in two deaths
I listened to the press conference when they announced the grand jury decision. UNBREAKABLE some of the evidence that was allowed. Post's from social media?? Bar is very low for grand jury. I feel there's no way he would have been convicted in a court of law by a jury. Huge difference for a prosecutor than a grand jury. The guy had PTSD from 2 tours of duty to the middle east ( per his lawyer).
That whole press conference was weird and felt like it was more than just this case. I guess you're just supposed to let people break into your business and destroy it.
Agreed. So just an FYI for anyone that's ever said Iowa sucks on hear, it could be used against you in a wrong situation.Yes, the “evidence” used to gain access to Gardner’s mental state was unbelievable. There was absolutely zero physical evidence so the prosecutor had to manufacture some very weak circumstantial “proof.” Prosecutor should be held liable, but I doubt anything will come of it.
It is tragic, indeed. But I'm curious why you defend Gardner as obviously innocent, yet you blame Scurlock. After all, Gardner was a Marine suffering from head trauma and PTSD. Perhaps in the middle of an altercation his judgement was not the best? I don't know. I don't pretend to know all of the facts on the ground. I'm not blaming Gardner. I wasn't in his shoes. Maybe I would have done the same. At the very least the situation warranted a proper investigation.Yes, the “evidence” used to gain access to Gardner’s mental state was unbelievable. There was absolutely zero physical evidence so the prosecutor had to manufacture some very weak circumstantial “proof.” Prosecutor should be held liable, but I doubt anything will come of it.
It is tragic, indeed. But I'm curious why you defend Gardner as obviously innocent, yet you blame Scurlock. After all, Gardner was a Marine suffering from head trauma and PTSD. Perhaps in the middle of an altercation his judgement was not the best? I don't know. I don't pretend to know all of the facts on the ground. I'm not blaming Gardner. I wasn't in his shoes. Maybe I would have done the same. At the very least the situation warranted a proper investigation.
Maybe there was more to it than you or I know.It was investigated and the DA decided not to charge. It was only after the mob put pressure on them that a "special prosecutor" was appointed. It was the "special prosecutor" who ended up charging him.
Maybe there was more to it than you or I know.
To be honest, the video is a little hard to follow, and I'm not in a position to pass judgement without first hearing all of the evidence. Still, I'd agree that Scurlock appears to be the aggressor.Highly doubtful. This looks every bit like a crooked prosecution that was meant to appease the mob.
This was a travesty of justice and everyone involved should face consequences.
It is tragic, indeed. But I'm curious why you defend Gardner as obviously innocent, yet you blame Scurlock. After all, Gardner was a Marine suffering from head trauma and PTSD. Perhaps in the middle of an altercation his judgement was not the best? I don't know. I don't pretend to know all of the facts on the ground. I'm not blaming Gardner. I wasn't in his shoes. Maybe I would have done the same. At the very least the situation warranted a proper investigation.
Our country does indeed romanticize criminals, but that's been true forever. Bonnie and Clyde, Al Capone, the Italian Mob. The two most popular sections of the news are crime and sports. It must be the horrible spectacle of it all that captivates.The video evidence. Scurlock was on video destroying the inside of another business prior to the altercation. He then put Gardner in a choke hold that cost him his life.
Scurlock is a thug. Not sure why our country loves to romanticize criminals.
I am not sure what "unbreakable" means in this context. It this a typo?I listened to the press conference when they announced the grand jury decision. UNBREAKABLE some of the evidence that was allowed. Post's from social media?? Bar is very low for grand jury. I feel there's no way he would have been convicted in a court of law by a jury. Huge difference for a prosecutor than a grand jury. The guy had PTSD from 2 tours of duty to the middle east ( per his lawyer).
That whole press conference was weird and felt like it was more than just this case. I guess you're just supposed to let people break into your business and destroy it.
there always is. but some people are so politically and socially oriented they only see what they want to see. they are unable to see anything else. Every word every action every reaction is motivated by political or social intentions. its sad. its sociopathic behavior. basically obsessive/cumpulsive disorder. they are part of the problem and they can't recognize itMaybe there was more to it than you or I know.
there always is. but some people are so politically and socially oriented they only see what they want to see. they are unable to see anything else. Every word every action every reaction is motivated by political or social intentions. its sad. its sociopathic behavior. basically obsessive/cumpulsive disorder. they are part of the problem and they can't recognize it
Yes that was a typo 🤣. Sorry. Dang auto typeI am not sure what "unbreakable" means in this context. It this a typo?
First, all Grand Jury proceedings are secret, both State and Federal. I have never had any prosecutor ever tell me anything about the proceedings ever. I have managed to see transcripts from a total of one Grand Jury hearing ever and that was in 1999. In one state courthouse where I practiced extensively, even the lawyers were forbidden from carrying their phones into the building to make sure none of the Grand Jurors would be videoed or otherwise recorded. Color me skeptical that anyone outside of the GJ knows what evidence was presented.
Second, under the GJ statute, the GJ has a right to request the production of documents or other evidence. This includes social media posts. It is very important to remember that like a Preliminary hearing in County Court (which all those charged with a felony have the right to have), the Rules of Evidence do not apply, as apposed to trial, and the standard of proof is very low (Does Probable Cause exist to show that a felony may have occurred and that the accused may have had something to do with it). If so the case is bound over to the District Court for trial. In GJ cases, if that low burden is met, then the case is directly filed to the District Court for trial (as here).
Third, Self Defense is an affirmative defense. That means that the accused has the burden of presenting evidence (this is important) AT TRIAL TO THE FINDER OF FACT (jury or judge is accused waives right to jury trial). It is the finder of fact that weighs
the evidence and decides if the accused acted in self defense.
I have no dog in this fight. It is tragic that two young men are dead before their time. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but the amount of garbage spewed by those who have grossly uninformed opinions is breathtaking.
I thought so. Better to ask (knowing my own shortcomings) then to make some unearned, unkind comment.Yes that was a typo 🤣. Sorry. Dang auto type
Thumb typing on phone to bootI thought so. Better to ask (knowing my own shortcomings) then to make some unearned, unkind comment.
It was investigated and the DA decided not to charge. It was only after the mob put pressure on them that a "special prosecutor" was appointed. It was the "special prosecutor" who ended up charging him.
Both deaths caused by the radical polarization created by social/mainstream media. The result of people being enslaved by their respective echo chambers. Both men took their actions/reactions to extremes and paid the ultimate price.
The special prosecutor did not "charge" him. The special prosecutor presented the case and the grand jury members 'indicted' him.
The grand jury decided there was enough evidence to 'indict' him, which is the same level required to arrest someone (probable cause). The grand jury is NOT asked if they feel the evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, a lot of evidence that comes out in a grand jury might not be allowed in trial for a few reasons.
In my opinion, there was always enough evidence/probable cause to arrest him for Manslaughter. Also, in my opinion, (see Nebraska definition below), proving the case ''beyond a reasonable doubt" would have been really difficult. I told my family and co-workers I expected an indictment for manslaughter before the grand jury began, and a not guilty verdict at trial.
After a couple of days after the death of Scurlock, the county attorney chose not to charge Gardner "AT THAT TIME", and Gardner was released because you can't hold someone in custody without charges forever (this is still America). Even though Gardner was released the the investigation never stopped. But again, ignorance and stupidity led the stupid to think nothing was going to happen on the case.
A prosecutor gets ONE shot at a trial, so he/she waits until he/she thinks they have the evidence to overcome "beyond a reasonable doubt". That is why at times, cops will arrest, but prosecutors will drop charges the next day. But in major high profile cases, it is not uncommon for the police to consult with the prosecutor where there is enough evidence to arrest, and the prosecutor will direct them not to arrest, because his burden of proof is so much higher.
So just because Don Kleine didn't immediately charge Gardner, doesn't mean Kleine did anything wrong (despite what the idiots think). It also doesn't mean Kleine might not have charged him in the future. But that wasn't good enough for the critics who don't have a clue about how the legal system works. People calling for Kleine to resign or be voted out are frankly ignorant.
BTW, Don Kleine has more integrity that just about any person I've ever met, and certainly more integrity that people who spout off at the mouth and don't know what the hell they are talking about.
I don't think Gardner's suicide makes it clear that he-himself thought he was guilty. If I were him, the thought of going to Douglas County Jail would scare the hell out of me too. He's been convicted in the minds of a lot of people, and his life would have been in danger. His attorney's also said Gardner feared he wouldn't get a fair trial in Douglas County. He might have been right. His attorney's could have also filed for a change of venue to another county.
This case shows that a lot of people (those critical of the County Attorney Don Kleine) are completely clueless about the following terms/concepts:
Burden of proof
Probable Cause
Beyond a Reasonable Doubt
Right to a Speedy Trial
Double Jeopardy
Dismissed with prejudice
etc
28-305.
Manslaughter; penalty.
(1) A person commits manslaughter if he or she kills another without malice upon a sudden quarrel or causes the death of another unintentionally while in the commission of an unlawful act.
Don Kleine gave a great review of the footage, and why Gardner was acting in self defense. It should have really stopped there, but the racial witch-hunt still went on. Gardner received multiple death threats and had to leave the state.
Grand Jury found their needed “evidence” in texts and social media posts... just ludicrous. Gardner most likely would of won his trial, but sadly he took his own life. PTSD, death threats, and having to go to prison was too much for him.
EXCELLENT post. You laid it out perfectly. Even the special prosecutor, in his press conference, was very complimentary of Kleine and understood why he refused to press charges at that time.The special prosecutor did not "charge" him. The special prosecutor presented the case and the grand jury members 'indicted' him.
The grand jury decided there was enough evidence to 'indict' him, which is the same level required to arrest someone (probable cause). The grand jury is NOT asked if they feel the evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, a lot of evidence that comes out in a grand jury might not be allowed in trial for a few reasons.
In my opinion, there was always enough evidence/probable cause to arrest him for Manslaughter. Also, in my opinion, (see Nebraska definition below), proving the case ''beyond a reasonable doubt" would have been really difficult. I told my family and co-workers I expected an indictment for manslaughter before the grand jury began, and a not guilty verdict at trial.
After a couple of days after the death of Scurlock, the county attorney chose not to charge Gardner "AT THAT TIME", and Gardner was released because you can't hold someone in custody without charges forever (this is still America). Even though Gardner was released the the investigation never stopped. But again, ignorance and stupidity led the stupid to think nothing was going to happen on the case.
A prosecutor gets ONE shot at a trial, so he/she waits until he/she thinks they have the evidence to overcome "beyond a reasonable doubt". That is why at times, cops will arrest, but prosecutors will drop charges the next day. But in major high profile cases, it is not uncommon for the police to consult with the prosecutor where there is enough evidence to arrest, and the prosecutor will direct them not to arrest, because his burden of proof is so much higher.
So just because Don Kleine didn't immediately charge Gardner, doesn't mean Kleine did anything wrong (despite what the idiots think). It also doesn't mean Kleine might not have charged him in the future. But that wasn't good enough for the critics who don't have a clue about how the legal system works. People calling for Kleine to resign or be voted out are frankly ignorant.
BTW, Don Kleine has more integrity that just about any person I've ever met, and certainly more integrity that people who spout off at the mouth and don't know what the hell they are talking about.
I don't think Gardner's suicide makes it clear that he-himself thought he was guilty. If I were him, the thought of going to Douglas County Jail would scare the hell out of me too. He's been convicted in the minds of a lot of people, and his life would have been in danger. His attorney's also said Gardner feared he wouldn't get a fair trial in Douglas County. He might have been right. His attorney's could have also filed for a change of venue to another county.
This case shows that a lot of people (those critical of the County Attorney Don Kleine) are completely clueless about the following terms/concepts:
Burden of proof
Probable Cause
Beyond a Reasonable Doubt
Right to a Speedy Trial
Double Jeopardy
Dismissed with prejudice
etc
28-305.
Manslaughter; penalty.
(1) A person commits manslaughter if he or she kills another without malice upon a sudden quarrel or causes the death of another unintentionally while in the commission of an unlawful act.
The special prosecutor did not "charge" him. The special prosecutor presented the case and the grand jury members 'indicted' him.
The grand jury decided there was enough evidence to 'indict' him, which is the same level required to arrest someone (probable cause). The grand jury is NOT asked if they feel the evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, a lot of evidence that comes out in a grand jury might not be allowed in trial for a few reasons.
In my opinion, there was always enough evidence/probable cause to arrest him for Manslaughter. Also, in my opinion, (see Nebraska definition below), proving the case ''beyond a reasonable doubt" would have been really difficult. I told my family and co-workers I expected an indictment for manslaughter before the grand jury began, and a not guilty verdict at trial.
After a couple of days after the death of Scurlock, the county attorney chose not to charge Gardner "AT THAT TIME", and Gardner was released because you can't hold someone in custody without charges forever (this is still America). Even though Gardner was released the the investigation never stopped. But again, ignorance and stupidity led the stupid to think nothing was going to happen on the case.
A prosecutor gets ONE shot at a trial, so he/she waits until he/she thinks they have the evidence to overcome "beyond a reasonable doubt". That is why at times, cops will arrest, but prosecutors will drop charges the next day. But in major high profile cases, it is not uncommon for the police to consult with the prosecutor where there is enough evidence to arrest, and the prosecutor will direct them not to arrest, because his burden of proof is so much higher.
So just because Don Kleine didn't immediately charge Gardner, doesn't mean Kleine did anything wrong (despite what the idiots think). It also doesn't mean Kleine might not have charged him in the future. But that wasn't good enough for the critics who don't have a clue about how the legal system works. People calling for Kleine to resign or be voted out are frankly ignorant.
BTW, Don Kleine has more integrity that just about any person I've ever met, and certainly more integrity that people who spout off at the mouth and don't know what the hell they are talking about.
I don't think Gardner's suicide makes it clear that he-himself thought he was guilty. If I were him, the thought of going to Douglas County Jail would scare the hell out of me too. He's been convicted in the minds of a lot of people, and his life would have been in danger. His attorney's also said Gardner feared he wouldn't get a fair trial in Douglas County. He might have been right. His attorney's could have also filed for a change of venue to another county.
This case shows that a lot of people (those critical of the County Attorney Don Kleine) are completely clueless about the following terms/concepts:
Burden of proof
Probable Cause
Beyond a Reasonable Doubt
Right to a Speedy Trial
Double Jeopardy
Dismissed with prejudice
etc
28-305.
Manslaughter; penalty.
(1) A person commits manslaughter if he or she kills another without malice upon a sudden quarrel or causes the death of another unintentionally while in the commission of an unlawful act.
A few more thoughts. First, I don't care about the race of either person. I care about the facts and the law. I've noted above I felt Gardner could have been charged IMO, but a conviction would have been very unlikely IMO.
Second, Scurlock supporters claim that he is a hero and stopped an "active shooter." A former Marine armed with numerous people around but he fired warning shots into the air? Uh... I know lots of former Marines, and they all can shoot well. If Gardner was an active shooter, he would have killed a lot of people long before he was on the ground in a choke hold, and NOT asked him to get off of him before firing. I'm NOT justifying his actions, I'm saying he was NOT an "Active Shooter."
Third, had I known how this would turn out from the beginning, I would have wanted Gardner charged right away. If vocal groups are going to demand prosecutors charge immediately and take people to trial when they don't feel there is enough evidence, then so be it. Be prepared for mistakes to be made and defendants to GO FREE FOR LIFE, as they can't be charged again (Double Jeopardy). But oh well, as long as the ignorant are happy immediately, who cares about results.
Fourth, trust the legal system. If you can't define/describe for me the terms/concepts in my earlier post, don't tell me you don't trust the legal process when the problem is you don't understand the process.
Fifth, the Nebraska ACLU says Scurlock should still be alive. I totally agree. Had large groups of people been just protesting and not committing burglaries/vandalizing (including Scurlock) he'd still be alive. People make bad decisions when mob mentality rules.
Finally, there was plenty of bad decisions on both sides of this incident.
I have a bad habit of not proofreading my posts...only to read later aoutofill, auto correct or a fat finger figured they know best. Bastages!