If not offering to demote or fire Satt at that point in time then yeah he botched it. Dana wasn’t going to come to NU to help Satt call plays. I understand the concern with Rhule but he’s made the change. Let’s see if it works.
Matt Rhule Presser 11/14/24
- Thread starter BugsAreQualityProtein
- Start date
Your choice of words obviously convey anger that at times doesn’t seem rational. Just my observation.
If we eliminate Rhule’s first two years at NU, he is undefeated here.
Part of UCLA and Colorado's improvements have been due to their schedules getting much easier, no?
I mean, UCLA started off with a brutal schedule then they beat a very average Rutgers, Nebraska and Iowa team who had to play a walk-on LB at QB.
Colorado, playing the bottom half of the Big12 outside of Texas Tech.
I get the argument in pointing out the teams Rhule beat at Temple weren't very good. But then why isn't the same thing being done for Deion at Colorado?
Threads like this remind me of Gulliver's Travels. When Gulliver visited the land of the Houyhnhnms (horses) he was encouraged at how refined these creatures were. Unfortunately, the land was also infested with the Yahoos (humans). Gulliver noted the most repugnant trait (of many) exhibited by the Yahoos was when important Yahoos (who the populace had previously liked their feet and hind-quarters) fell from power, the rank and file climbed up into trees and "discharged their excrements" on the fallen's heads.
Just a year ago so many people were on the Rhule bandwagon. Now it sounds as if many want him gone.
Just a year ago so many people were on the Rhule bandwagon. Now it sounds as if many want him gone.
When I decided to do the Temple thing, I knew it was an exercise in futility, but I actually wanted to see the result. With each year I completed, I kept saying to myself, "Oh crap, this is not a pattern any of us want to see."
But, the pattern clearly showed, Matt Rhule at Temple beat nothing but losers by a large margin, for 4 straight years no less.
As of 2023, when Rhule was at Temple his teams were 2-5 against Top 25 teams. He beat # 21 E. Carolina and # 20 Navy.
At Baylor he was 0-11 against Top 25 teams. I don't think doing Baylor would show that much of an overall difference considering they only won 19 games in 3 years.
But wasn't Temple a loser of a program too?
It's not like Pelini where he was heading a blue blood program and could only beat losers.
This is a staff that doesn't pay attention to detail trying to compete against coaching staffs who do pay attention to detail.
It's the little difference that makes the big difference. They know more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.
CU has two road wins over teams with a winning record just this year.
Might take Rhule 3-4 years (conservatively) to accomplish that here (currently sitting at zero).
You know damned well what my point is and it’s accurate. He has in fact won at what was at the time a P5 program after 2 rebuilding years. Failing to acknowledge that is just agenda driven piling on.
I happen to think Cignetti is one of those guys who "gets it." He perused films last year and found that QB from the MAC. He said , "I want that kid, he reminds me a lot of Philip Rivers." When that kid is healthy, he is perfect for the style of offense they run. I think Cig will do the same thing again next year and find guys who actually match what he coaches on both sides of the ball.
He uses what I called a Model of Characteristics. It's very similar to what the USSR did when they identified athletes at a young age, and said, "You're gonna be a pole vaulter, you're gonna be a discus thrower, you're gonna be a volleyball player, etc. "
He doesn't do the position-less selecting of players and then trying to find positions for them like Rhule does with many "projects" who happen to be athletes.
Those athletes come to Cig with specific areas already defined.
There ARE model characteristics in athletes. You just have to know what you're looking for.
You are right dingle,that backup QB is pretty damn good.
IU QB from the MAC now sitting on the 5th shortest heisman odds
As if hell could get any more frozen
Because Deion doesn't coach here, and what his team does will not affect us as fans.
I know what you mean though, anytime you scrutinize anyone's record closely, it will reveal things that people don't want to talk about or want to have exposed.
I just go where the numbers take me with maybe a hunch, but not a end result in mind until the facts speak for themselves.
I said last year, I would give him 1 1/2 years before I got critical. I DID make a couple negative comments last year but they were almost always about unnecessary time outs and clock management. This year I've been more critical as different weaknesses have appeared that are affecting the outcome of games and are not being addressed, or slow to be addressed, or finally addressed out of necessity.
I don’t think there’s a single person in the fanbase who expects us to win games because of coaching at this point.
Our eggs are entirely in the “talent” basket (again).
The mystique is that Rhule builds a program. Loses badly in year one, improves in year 2 and has a big winning improvement in year 3 and in one case year 3 and 4.
That doesn't have to apply here. The teams at Temple and Baylor being in the Big East/AAC or whatever conference Temple was in and the Big 12 where Baylor is, do NOT have the top heavy talented teams that they have in the BIG.
Texas, Okla, Okie St, K State, etc simply do not match up with the OSU, MICH, PSU, ORE and depth of another 4-5 teams in the conference now.
I'm just saying, the schedule can kill you in this league if you wind up with 3-4 heavy hitters the same year especially with all the travel. JMO
Things are not the same in Year 3 for Rhule here as they were in his 2 previous stops.
When a coach is building a program by beating worse programs doesn't necessarily mean he's building a program if all he does is beat primarily losing programs but is failing to bridge the gap between his team and the actual teams he needs to beat (winning teams) to show actual progress.
You having to include Colorado St just for Deion to get to 2 further proves my point.
I mean, that didn't stop you from bringing up Colorado (and their success) in this very same thread.... which is why I even brought up Colorado in my response.
I agree with everything else.
This right here. Any coach worth a darn knows the little details matter and can make a big difference
Not sure why fans can't see yet or want to admit we have the wrong guy in charge
You may very well be right, but why not wait until year 3 (like many were willing to do when Rhule was first hired) to see if the Big10 is different for Rhule than the Big12 and whatever conference Temple was in?
Your last paragraph. Again, it depends. If we're talking about Pelini, then I agree with what you said. If we're talking about Temple, no way because Temple was a bad program. A bad program beating bad teams & losing to good teams is building a program to me because before, Temple wasn't beating the bad teams.
I think because most people want to give a guy more than 1.5 years to see what he can do.
Baylor
2017 - lone win was against 1-11 Kansas
2018 - wins came against Abilene Christian, UTSA, Kansas, Kstate, Okstate, Texas Tech and Vanderbilt who had a combine record of 35-50 (0.412)
2019 - wins came against SFA, UTSA, Rice, Iowa State, Kstate, Texas Tech, Okstate, West Virginia, TCU, Texas, and Kansas who had a combined record of 58-78 (0.426)
So his entire tenure at Baylor was built of beating teams with combined records of 94-139 (0.403).
Congratulations, its nearly identical to his Temple tenure.
If Rhule loses the rest of the games this year (highly likely since he's a loser coach so far), he will have a career winning % of 0.496.
I'm not agenda driven, I'm data driven. He doesn't/hasn't beaten anything but losing teams.
Believe it or not, I'm a detail guy.
I'm not the kind of coach who's gonna leave a .245 and a .231 hitters in my # 3 and # 4 hole in my batting order when they have specific jobs to do. I charted every pitch count and how every hitter in my lineup performed from game to game. I knew who could hit ahead in the count and who couldn't. Those type of principles apply in almost all sports. Details.
This WR coach and OC and HC do the equivalent of looking the other way while Neyor and Banks disappear for games a time, don't contest 50/50 balls, can't seem to get open. I mean, we've got 25 fricking receivers, surely somebody wants to play.
As a coach, I'd fricking tell 'em, either you get your shit together out there or I'm pulling your ass and putting some guys in who have a lot of "want to." Do kids think they're gonna perform at this level and entertain thoughts of the next level where they can be treated like kids?
All coaches have a different method of delivering their message to coaches and players, but I guarantee the really good ones like Saban, Meyer, Osborne, Stoops don't put up with non-effort bullshit. Those guys are driven to win. Either you get on board, or you get to examine yourself on the pine.
When you talk as a coach about accountability, that applies to everyone. The players, the coaches, the system, everything. I held myself accountable and preparation was the name of the game.
The whole is no better than the parts.
End of sermon. Don't take it personal.
Rhule took over at Baylor after the Briles scandal and had them at 11-3 (with three close losses to Top 10 teams) in year three. It doesn't mean he will be able to do it here. But trying to discredit that and labeling his time at Baylor as he was just 19-20 screams of an agenda.
The only reason I brought up CU was because of Deion being in his 2nd year and Cig and Foster in their first year as an example of 3 non-football schools who are outperforming us in Year 2. I'm no fan of Deion and I think Foster surrounded himself with some really good coaches, and I happen to think, and to be determined by time, that Cig is a dude who really gets it.
I guess I really don't know what my point is here, LOL, I was just examining the numbers beneath the numbers of Rhule over a 4 year period at Temple. I guess I arrived at the conclusion that his rate of success will not transfer here. I could be wrong, and hope I am, but I don't think so. LOL
(TBH, I'm late for my nap and I'm getting cranky).
The Briles scandal was precluded by 11, 11 and 10 win seasons, including 2 conference titles and a Heisman winner
Sure they lost scholarships/players, but acting like Rhule took over ‘88 SMU when he went to Baylor also screams of an agenda
Baylor was in a bad spot when Rhule got there. There were about 45 scholarship players and one commit, and it was a pre-transfer portal. Again it doesn't mean he will have the same results here, but there is no reason to re-write history to discredit the job they did at Baylor.
Agreed
The scandal and Rhule took a 10-win team to a 1-win team in a matter of months
The year before he got there they had a 7-win team, who had 85 scholarships. But you do you, don't let facts or reason slow you down.
I like Matt, I just think he's not as good as he thinks he is. I guess if quoting a verifiable fact like
19 wins and 20 losses is an agenda to discredit that, I disagree.
I used that 19-20 in context that he was 0-11 against Ranked Top 25 teams. Just on the surface, if you LOSE 11 of 20 games to teams with presumably winning records, it stands to reason the teams you likely beat had losing records. Doesn't that make sense?
Because I like to work with numbers, I even took the time years ago to go in and look at some of TO's numbers.
Like 7 straight losses to OU, like the period from 1980 -1986, 7 years when we went in the bowl games WLWLWLW, and then 1987 - 1993 for 7 years when NU's bowl record was LLLLLLL. He finished that run by then winning 4 straight bowls, and I wonder if he kept coaching (at the time before he announced his retirement) if they would again win 7 in a row.
It's more curiosity than anything. I just like to do stuff like this, doesn't mean I have any agenda.
I've spent most of my career working with numbers, its something I enjoy.
embarrassed for you that you’d include his moral victories. losers like you love close losses more than wins, because it takes pressure off of having to continue performing well.
Baylor couple years before Rhule: wins the conference
Baylor with Rhule: never wins the conference, despite it being historically weak
Baylor couple years after Rhule: wins the conference
retards like @headcard: the facts say Rhule is the only guy who can win at Baylor 🤪
Nebraska from '74 - '76: Beat teams with combined records of 114-175 (0.3945)
Baylor
2017 - lone win was against 1-11 Kansas
2018 - wins came against Abilene Christian, UTSA, Kansas, Kstate, Okstate, Texas Tech and Vanderbilt who had a combine record of 35-50 (0.412)
2019 - wins came against SFA, UTSA, Rice, Iowa State, Kstate, Texas Tech, Okstate, West Virginia, TCU, Texas, and Kansas who had a combined record of 58-78 (0.426)
So his entire tenure at Baylor was built of beating teams with combined records of 94-139 (0.403).
Congratulations, its nearly identical to his Temple tenure.
If Rhule loses the rest of the games this year (highly likely since he's a loser coach so far), he will have a career winning % of 0.496.
Tom Osborne, what a loser & crappy coach.
I'm gonna be waiting for Year 3 like everyone else. I hope he's able to get this thing turned around.
I've been a NU fan since 1962, and history says, as fans, we've seen it all. We should know what a great team looks like, what an improving team looks like and what a team trending downward looks like. As fans over the last 25 years or so, we've just seen it all.
There also comes a point where it seemed to becoming obvious that Callahan is not gonna survive because he won't let go of Cosgrove. Or that Pelini can't overcome his sideline behavior and getting steamrolled by teams, or Riley, well, forget him.
It didn't take long to see that Frost just wasn't gonna able to get anything done. He brought the majority of his staff with him from Carolina. He hired a very substandard OC just like Frost brought along a substandard DC in Chinander.
Rhule still has to prove himself, but IF NU fails to win any of the last 3 the momentum is really diminished and questions need to be asked. Rhule made an OC change, out of necessity, not because he wanted to. If DH sparks this offense and gives us fans hope for the future, that will be one helluva shot in the arm for this program. But, we don't know what DH's future plans are at this point, and that doesn't fix the ST play, the inconsistency of the defense. He's got his work cut out.
Thanks, that saved me some work!!
Baylor
2017 - lone win was against 1-11 Kansas
2018 - wins came against Abilene Christian, UTSA, Kansas, Kstate, Okstate, Texas Tech and Vanderbilt who had a combine record of 35-50 (0.412)
2019 - wins came against SFA, UTSA, Rice, Iowa State, Kstate, Texas Tech, Okstate, West Virginia, TCU, Texas, and Kansas who had a combined record of 58-78 (0.426)
So his entire tenure at Baylor was built of beating teams with combined records of 94-139 (0.403).
Congratulations, its nearly identical to his Temple tenure.
If Rhule loses the rest of the games this year (highly likely since he's a loser coach so far), he will have a career winning % of 0.496.
I just don't think your data is broad enough. When you stop at only their records, there *could* be more to it. What they inherited, what players were they able to bring over (what Sanders & Cig were able to bring over because college coaches prior is much easier than what Rhule was able to do), what conference they're in, SOS, etc)....
Yes, you mostly bring up data, but then there are things like;
You bring up Colorado, then question why I bring them up.
You bring up Rhule being in the strong BIG10 and not the weak Big12 or AAC, but then that's not applying for Deion.
I'm not discounting what you're saying by the way. Much of it is great info, I just think some may need more context and there's still a lot of unknowns out there.
