hahaha.. you think Tom's recruiting classes were littered with 4 & 5 star talent?
Little ferentz issue??
- Thread starter baseball31ne
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I know your points. And I wasn't suggesting what Tom did was the same as Bo. What Tom did for 25 years will not be repeated again. By anybody.
What I was suggesting is that Tom didn't do it with 2 and 3 star players all the time like Nikki suggested. That's just wrong. He had star power as well. Anyone who says he didn't is smoking something.
Edit: and when I said the occasional breakout season those were the 11-1, 10-2 type seasons. I didn't say 9-3 every year period. There were more 10-2 than occasional I guess, but my point remains... you don't have the success Tom he without talent. You just don't.
Come on Nikki, stop stirring the pot. He had from 2 star to 5 star talent, with more 3 and 4 star players than 2 or 5 star players. It's ridiculous to suggest Tom won 255 games over 25 years with 2 and 3 star players.
I'm only 31 and didn't follow recruiting before the mid 2000's but what kind of rating systems did they have? I remember some talk on the Iowa boards about how Hayden Fry pulled in the top recruit in the country one year. But it was an argument on whether that was fact or not. What kind of rankings did they have for high school kids back in the day?
Back in the day it was Tom Lemming, or Max Emfinger, or something like that. A team can win with 2 and 3 star talent, properly developed... Just not averaging 10 wins a year for 25 years, as Nikki is suggesting. That seems to be what has happened to Iowa under Ferentz...
To be honest, I don't know what recruiting is like for Iowa, but it just seems like they aren't highly rated classes under Ferentz. Maybe I'm wrong...
I believe TO's classes were in the #25-35 range from what I have heard. The program was also more of a 'system', where new parts could be plugged in and the whole machine continued to run under that system. It's unfortunate that you have been brainwashed into thinking that Nebraska had top 10 classes all those years in the past. Nebraska will never consistently recruit like the Ohio States & Alabamas, and never have, but they have 5 championships to prove it can be done by developing players. You can put that in your pot and stir it!
I like the optimism, but the current #7 ranking isn't going to hold up because the class size is small, and the average star is low at 3.2 compared to others. Prior year was #20, and #24 before that. I'm guessing this class falls within that range give or take.
https://sites.google.com/site/nebraskafootballhistory/recruiting
We've had this discussion before. TO recruited better than many remember, but not top 10 every year as some state. Per the usual, the truth is somewhere in between. Best links I could find with just a little time dedicated to it.
https://sites.google.com/site/nebraskafootballhistory/recruiting-page-2
They are usually 30's, 40's, 50's. What hurts Iowa is attrition. More than likely if a kid sticks it out all 4/5 years, he is going to atleast get a FA shot in the NFL. The 2013 class was ranked 53rd. But it was a star powered class. Josey Jewell and Akrum Wadley were both two stars. Both will be drafted in the first half of next years draft. Desmond King was part of that class as well. He was a low three star. Matt Vandeburg was a grey shirt offer who got a scholarship in fall practice. He is Iowa's best WR coming back.
Meanwhile, in those classes, Nebraska had a couple top 25 classes including a 17th ranked class. It looks like about half of those four stars left the program. I see some higher ranked guys that played for Riley for two years and really didn't do much. I think if in year three, Nebraska isn't trending up, then Husker fans should be asking if Riley is going to get it done. It's one think to get highly ranked classes. It's a completely other thing to keep those kids around and be able to coach them well.
If Nebraska only takes 17 like I've seen posted on here, it might be a lot lower than 20. But still be a really good class.
Consistently 25-35 is not made up of 2 and 3 stars. You have half a dozen 4 stars there as well. And I never said top ten. Not sure where you got that.
Anyway, I know you're just trying to get my goat. Have a nice day.
Solid. Thanks for this post.
It seems as if Riley is better equipped to keep the right players here more so than Bo could, but if he can't and he doesn't develop the players, then he won't be here too long.
Not true, He didn't always have a top 10 class but rarely was his classes outside the top 25.
Of course services were different back then they are are today. Wallace, Emfinzer, Lemming and Super Prep where some of the top services back in the day.
Is the the Bi-Polar thread or what? It started with comments about what Brian said, then went to Nebraska fans fighting with Iowa fans about who has been better over 5, 10, 15, 20 years to Nebraska fans fighting each other about Nebraska recruiting classes in the early 90s. WTF is going on here? What is the next argument in this thread about?
Easy we have to make this last until fall camp opens.
Mike Riley with his rocky early start at NU has won 2% less games than KF has in his career at Iowa (.577 to .595).
Mike Riley's career win rate at Oregon State is higher than Iowa's all time program percentage (.538 to .535).
Riley's bowl record is way better than KF or Iowa's. (7-3, vice 6-8 for KF, 14-15-1 Iowa).
I think he'll be ok.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/kirk-ferentz-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mike-riley-1.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Hawkeyes_football
Mike Riley's career win rate at Oregon State is higher than Iowa's all time program percentage (.538 to .535).
Riley's bowl record is way better than KF or Iowa's. (7-3, vice 6-8 for KF, 14-15-1 Iowa).
I think he'll be ok.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/kirk-ferentz-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mike-riley-1.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Hawkeyes_football
Football has changed in so many ways comparing recruiting now to the T.O. era is impossible. Suffice to say we were one stud QB from MNC contender every year under T.O. Yeah you could argue the D or O was down in given years - but the reality is the peak teams in the T.O. era had Gill, Frazier and Frost and elite RB talent. All 3 QBs highly recruited and difference makers on the field at QB - they came in with the expectation to win MNCs. Steve Taylor was highly recruited (as were several other QBs under Tom) but for whatever reason - were not quite good enough. College football is like that. Saban is trying to change it by elevating Defensive play and everything else to not rely on a QB to win - but Clemson and D. Watson showed a stud QB can beat a great team.
Not to be contrarian to our overall stickt, but prop 48 leniency kind of helped us out for a loooonnng time.
This is a schizophrenic thread...the only thing we should probably count on, is the game will be a b!tch to deal with even if we have great, not good teams in the future. They are a hard-nosed, well resourced, stubborn and proud program. Past nor future glory in Lincoln won't change any of that.
How are Mike Riley's coaching records at OSU and Iowa's overall record correlated? That makes zero sense to me as to why you would use the two other than it helps make Riley look better?
Kirk has lost five bowl games in a row which is a huge issue. Most of those games have been blowouts too. Proving that Iowa is extremely easy to plan for if you have a month. What sucks about the Big Ten bowl tie ins is that the conference always has to play up. Off the top of my head, 7-5 Iowa teams have played top 15 teams in bowl games. That shouldn't happen. The big ten were underdogs on something like 7 of 9 bowl games last year. It's part of the reason the conference gets a bad wrap for losing so many bowl games. (The Rose Bowl two years ago doesn't fit into this criteria)
I would say they're correlated because it's much harder to win at OSU than it is at Nebraska, suggesting his best years as coach are ahead of him in terms of wins/losses.
At least in theory.
IMO, at times Hawk nation gets a little big in their britches about what they are paying $4 million and change for. And want to act like a big boy and come denigrate Husker fans for supporting their mediocre coach.
Those numbers should put in perspective how far Iowa hasn't really come, from middle of the pack on average. In terms of national perspective, we're still waiting for Iowa to make a move. I thought they might show better at 12-0 that year.
To be fair, Nebraska has to pick it up as well.
Those numbers should put in perspective how far Iowa hasn't really come, from middle of the pack on average. In terms of national perspective, we're still waiting for Iowa to make a move. I thought they might show better at 12-0 that year.
To be fair, Nebraska has to pick it up as well.
Wouldn't you want to correlate his record at OSU with Kirk's record at Iowa? I honestly don't even know what that comes out to be so I'm not being biased.
KF comes out ahead at 59% to 54% essentially. Should though. With that pro football team he's been leading to 7 win seasons.
(Someone said we had to keep this going till fall camp).
I've been called a troll because I say Kirk actually under achieves with as many professionals as he produces. This last season for instance. 8-5 with a loss to NDSU had four seniors get drafted and could have 3-6 juniors drafted next season. That's 7-10 upperclassmen getting drafted on an 8-5 team.KF comes out ahead at 59% to 54% essentially. Should though. With that pro football team he's been leading to 7 win seasons.
(Someone said we had to keep this going till fall camp).
Iowa morons tell me this all the time. They brag about how many players he puts in the NFL. Well with all that NFL talentn he should be winning a lot more. Tells me that he recruits kids with a hard work ethic and improves them some. But the NFL owners see that they have so much more they can learn so they draft them. Kirks job is first and foremost to win football games at Iowa. I wouldnt care if Nebraska didnt have very many in the NFL if we were competing for titles year in and year out. But Iowa fans hold their hat on how many go to the NFL since they cant hold their hat on being nationally relevant in a yearly basis.
Iowa-Wisconsin is as fierce of a Big Ten rivalry as there is, and probably the most competitive in the West Division this game will annually be for the West Division crown.
Annually? What do you consider annually? Iowa has been in the CCG once. Wisconsin is obviously the team to beat in the West and they have proven that. Most years it will be Wisc then Nebraska or Iowa in the title game. Until they add more schools until its the B2G
Before you embarrass yourself anymore please study the rivalries in your new conference, Iowa - Wisconsin goes back decades and decades historically it ranks right behind Ohio St - Michigan, Nebraska really doesn't come into play.
The Wisky program is modeled after what Barry learned at Iowa.
You think NFL owners are drafting kids because they still have a lot to learn? Meaning Kirk is bad at developing kids to their fullest potential? I hope I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying because that's kind of crazy.
As I've stated in this thread many times, Kirk's issue is stubbornness on gameday. He doesn't change philosophy whether he is playing Michigan or NDSU.
Holy crap this is funny! You say before you embarrass yourself, and then go on to say Iowa – Wisconsin is like Michigan - Ohio State?
Almost as funny as saying Barry patterned Wisconsin after what he learned at Iowa... moron, it's what he learned at Nebraska playing under devaney and what he learned from Osborne as well...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edit: best troll attempt ever! Even Iowa fans won't want to back this one up!
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You just went from funny to ridiculous. See the links below for the truth.
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/...-the-model-for-badgers-success-130827938.html
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-badgers-lessons-learned-nebraska-cornhuskers
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So you think that when guys enter the NFL that they dont have any more to learn and they are maxed out at their talent level? For f's sake you Iowa fans are friggin ignorant.
Yes Arbit8 I forgot about the Iowa vs Iowa State rivalry. Lmao. You big ten freajs hang your hats in every team you play as being a rivalry. Yes the wisky vs iowa series is a tight one in history but sorry, wisky has proven to be the class of the west division. Sorry hekie, iowa may compete with them in their game but not in the west division.
I will, I am an anomaly....a fan of both and history with staff members at both, grew up on one program, attended school and worked for another. These p!ss!ing matches are so amusing. FWIW both you knuckleheads are right, and wrong.
Dig for old stories all you want. But here's the deal, Alvarez was very vocal about what he modeled his program after LONG BEFORE people in Nebraska were paying attention to the Big 10. Frankly he routinely credited 3 major influences for his philosophy....Devaney, Fry, Holz. He would then say it was Iowa he emulated IN THE Big 10. When he took the wisky job, and through the bulk of his career as a coach, it had separation after OSU, MICH, and IOWA(particularly in his early years, but even late in his career, he had real trouble beating Iowa).
An often repeated mantra from Barry before anyone in Nebraska cared what he was saying was something like, 'I learned about football from Bob Devaney, organization and preparation from Hayden Fry, and motivation from Lou Holz."
When Nebraska joined and there were a plethora of stories about the new member, Alvy was asked about Nebraska often, and from some of these timely interview, you get the stories you linked.
I've known Alvy since 1986, not well, but know people that worked with and for him at Iowa and Wisky very well. More because of them I have had interaction with Alvy, and followed his career closely.
Kiss and make up guys, his mentors were the coaches and programs at Nebraska, Iowa, and Notre Dame....and probably a few others where he gave credit to someone else.
I have no problem with this... It would easily make sense that he took stuff from each program he was in. I went overboard on the Nebraska side, but only in response to Arbitr8's obvious troll attempt. I will not kiss and make up with him as he brings absolutely nothing to this board except stupid statements like Iowa-Wisconsin, historically, is like Ohio State-Michigan and everything Alvarez learned about football he learned at Iowa. Two of the stupidest statements I have seen posted in recent memory.
Even though you quote no articles saying Barry patterned his football program after Iowa in the B1G, you do acknowledge his tip of the hat to Nebraska too. I don't know how you can take up for Arbitr8, but I guess it makes sense that you have to stick up for your idiot brother, right or wrong, which is admirable.
here are some interesting reads for you...google is your friend. downtime in the airport ending. Peace
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/...transformed-football-program-rose-bowl-063015
http://data.desmoinesregister.com/hall-of-fame/single.php?id=392
http://isthmus.com/arts/sports/barry-alvarez-look-back-25-years-uw/
That's not what I'm saying. You however, are saying that Ferentz really doesn't do what Iowa fans (and NFL draft experts) say they do. You basically said that all Kirk does is identify underrated kids but doesn't do much for them other than give them an opportunity. You literally said "Tells me that he recruits kids with a hard work ethic and improves them some. But the NFL owners see that they have so much more they can learn so they draft them."
That's the ignorant part my friend. Kirk is widely known for being one of the best at coaching players to max potential. He NFL isn't going to draft a kid that just works hard but "has a lot to learn". Good lord man.
