We're not going to be run focused any way you look at it with this staff, that just isn't the type of offensive system they prefer. I think we would have a more big play type running game with an Ameer type back but I doubt we'll ever see Nebraska lining up and dumping 300+ rushing yards a game on a regular basis.
Langsdorf a candidate for CFL head coach
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We're not going to be run focused any way you look at it with this staff, that just isn't the type of offensive system they prefer. I think we would have a more big play type running game with an Ameer type back but I doubt we'll ever see Nebraska lining up and dumping 300+ rushing yards a game on a regular basis.
Power is as simple as blocking rather than any one formation or set of formations. Watch Ohio State, Auburn or Alabama (others as well, these are just the most notable) games and pay attention to the counters and power o plays they run quite often out of the shotgun. Seen OU using some power out of the shotgun this season too.I'm sure we've seen some power plays run this year by Nebraska, not everything can be zone blocking. The goal of one is basically to create a pre determined running lane where the other allows the back to find the best running lane.
If we're just taking fan temperatures vis a vis Riley, then lets acknowledge that the Iowa fan base wanted Greg Davis gone last year, almost to a man. This year? Not so much. Until....they lost the title game.
It was also noted this morning on 1620 that New Kirk and Old Kirk aren't all that different, minor shifts, rather than wholesale change.
It might also be noted that if one wants to talk about "old dogs learning new tricks" and the value of such, Iowa sat through 16 years of Old Kirk before New Kirk showed up. I don't think Snohomish and others of his attitude, nor Tom, are putting forth the argument that we have to roll with Riley for a good long time.
It was also noted this morning on 1620 that New Kirk and Old Kirk aren't all that different, minor shifts, rather than wholesale change.
It might also be noted that if one wants to talk about "old dogs learning new tricks" and the value of such, Iowa sat through 16 years of Old Kirk before New Kirk showed up. I don't think Snohomish and others of his attitude, nor Tom, are putting forth the argument that we have to roll with Riley for a good long time.
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I personally think Rover's attitude a couple pages back is where I am.
You want a power run game. We didn't hire a power run coach. Be disappointed sure, but realize that coach is getting paid to run the show and he'll pay for the choices with his job when the time comes if his path doesn't work.
I don't really see a lot of point in spending the next 2-3 years, complaining that Riley isn't an Osborne acolyte. If an Osborne acolyte is who we want, we'll get that chance when Riley has success and retires, or he's fired for not getting the plane off the ground enough.
Until then, its kind of just bitching to bitch.
Edit: Its kind of like kids right. "We're at Pizza Hut, we're going to Pizza Hut, you can either come in an eat, or sit in the car and pout!"
You want a power run game. We didn't hire a power run coach. Be disappointed sure, but realize that coach is getting paid to run the show and he'll pay for the choices with his job when the time comes if his path doesn't work.
I don't really see a lot of point in spending the next 2-3 years, complaining that Riley isn't an Osborne acolyte. If an Osborne acolyte is who we want, we'll get that chance when Riley has success and retires, or he's fired for not getting the plane off the ground enough.
Until then, its kind of just bitching to bitch.
Edit: Its kind of like kids right. "We're at Pizza Hut, we're going to Pizza Hut, you can either come in an eat, or sit in the car and pout!"
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since your post before this mentioned me I will respond to that also
Previous post - confused - are you saying NU fans should have the same expectations as Iowa fans? if so I guess we are really lost
This post - I disagree its not bitching at all. In fact I think fans control the program more than you think - lets use Ohio State this year as an example - the fans were up in arms on Becks play calling after one loss and Urban then changed it
I believe this program belongs to the fans not to Riley and Eichorst. I think it is pretty guppyish to just believe that you are a pawn and since you believe you do not matter, you are just going to like what is being fed to you.
In fact if all people believed that way we would probably have Stalin the 10th in charge of the us right now
It's pretty clear that it was the fans at OSU who had enough of Langs play calling. There are still a number of blogs, comments, and even a petition to have him demoted (and Banker fired) based upon the same play calling issues we have seen. (And Riley did demote him.)
You bring up Osborne. He had a coordinator that stunk up the place and he made him change out of a fairly passive 5-2 monster defense into the attack style defense we saw in the 90's. Although the fans wanted Charlie gone, Osborne kept him providing that the defense was going to change. That's all many of us are asking for. If something hasn't worked for years, why not try what is working among the top teams?
The beauty of Osborne on both sides of the ball wasn't, "Well, that's all he knows. Like it or leave it." He changed the offense up multiple times during his tenure. He made the defense change as mentioned above. The idea that we are stuck with Riley's pro-style offense is crazy. If the old dog can't learn new tricks...ditch him.
Do you think this is some mystery? Every AD, coach, talking head knows this. People talk about how hard it is to recruit the right kind of player to be successful passing here, well guess what? The same exists for finding the right mix to run the ball consistently. LSU focuses on a run game and they nearly fired Miles this season because he isn't creative enough with the offense.
Osborne was nearly run out of town multiple times because he wasn't creative enough with the offense.
Trust me, Riley and Langs know a sound run game is key. But they also know an unpredictable offense with a balance is a D coordinator's worst nightmare.
Best post in awhile. The idea that we should just be pawns is perpetrated quite frequently on this board.
The only point I was trying to make was as you put it:
"He changed the offense up multiple times during his tenure. He made the defense change as mentioned above. The idea that we are stuck with Riley's pro-style offense is crazy. If the old dog can't learn new tricks...ditch him."
The key point in there is *tenure*. If the "Riley is disappointing hire to me crowd" is wanting Riley to make changes, then Riley's going to have to have the tenure to do so and be evaluated on those changes.
That is not the tack that that "Riley disappoints me" crowd is taking, they generally were on here pre-season, and certainly by Game 6, calling for heads. If the idea is that Riley must change to be suitable, then Riley is going to be here a hot minute, not one and done, and probably not two and done.
Time is all I'm saying. Riley is not going to reinvent the wheel game to game during a season.
If I had take the temperature of the anti-Riley crowd, and because they've come out and said it, they'd rather ditch Riley than give him a chance to make whatever changes (big or small).
No I'm just illustrating that fans are fallible. Every coach is a goat until he isn't.
That's not to say that DL is Jesus Jr. but lets not pretend he did absolutely nothing either.
Let's be honest here, the shortest path between two points is a straight line. If a person is anti-Riley, and they'd like to see him gone for someone with higher upside (whether its Frost or whoever), the anti-Riley crowd should be crowing for stability in the program. Because then you have a constant measuring stick and you drop the hammer if results don't follow. Giving Riley as many transition years as possible, is probably not in the anti-Riley interest.
We shouldn't just be pawns, but we aren't kings. Or aren't kings very often.
You or I can miss a game pretty regularly, and the fans don't matter. Us and 30k friends start doing so? Then the fans matter. You might think you are the equivalent of Hawks or Clare, but you aren't. Its only when you unionize that you overcome their inertia.
"It's pretty clear that it was the fans at OSU who had enough of Langs play calling. There are still a number of blogs, comments, and even a petition to have him demoted (and Banker fired) based upon the same play calling issues we have seen. (And Riley did demote him.)"
Its also worth pointing out that most coaches are retreads. It might have been Snohomish who said "he failed once, why give him the job again?". If the coaching world had that attitude, we'd need a large number of fresh coaches each year to replace all the retreads who dominate the NCAA and NFL.
Who knows, DL may get playcalling taken from him again, but the coaching world isn't exactly filled with fresh guys who were never allowed to fail. That standard that will never be met.
Its also worth pointing out that most coaches are retreads. It might have been Snohomish who said "he failed once, why give him the job again?". If the coaching world had that attitude, we'd need a large number of fresh coaches each year to replace all the retreads who dominate the NCAA and NFL.
Who knows, DL may get playcalling taken from him again, but the coaching world isn't exactly filled with fresh guys who were never allowed to fail. That standard that will never be met.
I don't think anyone is saying that every Husker fan should be perfectly happy. I'm not perfectly happy. But as with everything its a matter of degree. I have no problem taking issue with running the ball in short yardage or wanting to see attitude changes or whatever.
But there are a number of people on here who give the impression that the only thing that's going to make them happy is if Riley does his best Osborne impression. Probably isn't going to happen, we know that we bought a balanced philosophy, we know that we bought two guys with NFL QB as their cred. We might tweak practice or run a bit more or look at situational football playcalls, but Riley is not going to go have lunch with Osborne and run power 70% of the time and just lull people to sleep for three quarters before gouging them.You are probably going to have to contribute more money to the AD next coaching change to see that happen.
I have to disagree with the part I bolded... I don't think it was the fans that brought Urban to change things... It was the loss due to zero production by the offense. There is no way you will convince me that had the fans been quiet Urb wouldn't have changed a thing. This is flat out wrong in my opinion.
If you want to say the fans have an impact on the program, that is absolutely true. But it wasn't the fans that brought better play calling to the offense the following week. That was on the coaches.
OSU fans were kind of in a tizzy the whole year. That Beck lost play calling duties in what, game 11? is probably pretty good evidence that Meyer the decision independent of the fans.
A team that was expected to be 95 NU, was barely beating piddly teams and letting teams get the lead and/or hang around late in games. If fans had been driving the bus, Beck would have had his nuts chopped way sooner.
He has had tenure as a coach. If he was a brand new guy with only history as a coordinator then you expect a time of figuring things out. The amazing thing about looking at Riley's, Bankers, and Langsdorf's issues are that they are the exact same things that virtually got them run out of Corvallis. They need to change it up quickly.
He's not had tenure here. Are you insinuating that he shouldn't be given some period of time to find the right mix of recruiting, play calls, system development at Nebraska? One doesn't just practice one way next week, and a different way the following week. These sorts of systems Osborne developed over a period of 20 years and made most of the key changes very late in his tenure at a school. I'm not saying Riley should get 20 years, but if "play grand tinkerer" is an acceptable path, we might be looking at 3 or 4 years. Again, not a typical anti-Riley position.
Very few people are calling for Riley's head right now. Most of us believe the should get another year and with improvement get another year after that. However, we also are saying that there needs to be some changes. His pro-style offense and Banker's defense have not been successful for a number of years. Start making changes now!
So.....
Please suggest changes you deem plausible.
I might point out that Iowa and MSU run a pro-style offense, and MSU runs our basic defense. I do not see it at as at all plausible that Riley ditches the basic systems, but rather tweaks within them, whether its the calls, practice routines, player rotation, etc. And its probably not warranted to ditch them, as the basic difference between Iowa's success and our lack of it was a solid QB and perhaps a little more bias towards the run within a pro system.
If Riley comes out and runs power 65% next year, you better go buy a lottery ticket.
This is exactly the point - Riley was running into trouble at OSU and he even states they need to make some changes because things were not working. It was the OSU fans that were upset and it was them making the administration and Riley change. When he was hired here I was hopeful they would look at this as a fresh start they would start with a blank state throw out old things that were not working and put some new things in - Instead what they did as a staff is look at NU hiring them as validation their stuff was working when in fact it was not. They changed nothing from OSU not one single thing and the result was exactly the same. Well the expectations are different here and this stuff will not cut it - Yes they need to change its not just one year. They have needed to change for some years and have not and if we as fans accept this and say "They just need more time" then shame on us
Hey if you want to add that Riley is 1-0 against Mora that is fine with me, but the fact is Riley is 3-7 against the Bruins. I am not sure that matters. The Bruins were pretty beat up at the end of the season. Lots of players hurt. Their star from here in Washington, Myles Jack, a linebacker/running back is out for the season. If Langsdorf puts Tommy and the rest of the team in good situations I wouldn't be surprised if the Huskers win. Their QB Rosen has been pretty good his freshman year, but he can be rattled. Also for being a tall Pro-style QB he has ripped off a couple of long runs. The Huskers will have to be aware of that
It may be pro-style in name but their intentions are far different than ours. Both MSU and Iowa want to establish the run first. Nebraska is just the opposite. Both MSU and Iowa run the ball far more often than does Nebraska and you see very little sideways running. For example, Nebraska loves the jet sweep...not so with Iowa and MSU. Finally, when the game is on the line, guess what they desperately want to do...run straight ahead.
Not exclusively. In their game with us and in the Iowa game, Michigan State ran reverses at critical moments.
They also threw the ball a few times. I'm talking about their predominant view of what they want to do.
The MSU game highlights the small line between goat and hero. The OC's name escapes me at the moment. On 4th and short he ran a QB keeper with his non-running, perhaps number one pro QB. Had he not made it, he would be DL with TA's 4&1 pass call (why didn't he put him in position to do what he does best?). Surprisingly, the answer is simple, its not what was expected. Running an essentially short side option with a guy who is mostly relegated to sneaks and chucking the ball to the B1G's leading receiver is brilliant...if it works. Cook isn't exactly Manning, but running the SSO isn't his wheelhouse.
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The intentions are what I'm getting at. You said to ditch Riley's pro style offense. And then you backtrack here and say, well a pro-style if offense is ok, but we should really lean on the run more like jflores indicated might be a solution that two schools use a couple posts ago. And that's really the point, what we have is ok, if we take what we have and tweak it. We don't have to throw out everything and start over. There were at least a couple of games where DL called some gems and nailing that consistently would go along way to soothing some folks.
I actually have very little problem with the jet sweep. Perhaps the ultimate power team in Wisconsin, ran the jet sweep a lot, especially when they played us. You do at some point, have to attack somewhere that isn't between the tackles. Reilly and Moore are the only 2 receivers listed with carries (10 and 13 respectively) out of 434 total rushes. That's 5%, hardly a huge impediment. Their averages were 7.5ypc and 8.3 ypc, better than any back. Specifically, paired with your Jano/Cross short yardage numbers, we should have run fly sweep a lot more on early downs, and Jano/Cross a lot more on late downs.
Basically, when you say something like "we need to ditch pro offense and our defense" because they can' work and won't work, when we beat the B1G championship team that most resembles us (minus a few percent run bias in their favor), it just sounds like the only "reasonable" outcome for you is to bring in a guy like Bielema to install your favorite system.
Look guys the bottom line here is this
Many if not most of you think Riley can do well given more time - On the flip side ( Of which I am included) We believe Riley can only do well if he makes some changes - The same problems he had at OSU are now manifesting themselves at NU
Many if not most of you think Riley can do well given more time - On the flip side ( Of which I am included) We believe Riley can only do well if he makes some changes - The same problems he had at OSU are now manifesting themselves at NU
- Penalties
- Mediocre to poor special teams
- Ranked among the worst in nation in rushing offense
- ranked among the worst in the nation in pass defense and normally poor in generating int's and sacks
- Normally high in interceptions thrown
You sure seem panicked as shit that this guy is going to be here 20 years if he sucks. Your posting history here has zero confidence in your conclusion as stated here. You constantly seem to be wanting the rest of us to hit the "eject" button, lest we destroy the program.
I don't think so either. They just aren't from that tree. They want a physical running game in the same vein that most NFL guys want a physical running game. I do think they differentiate from the NFL pretty well in that, they are throwing a lot of "Leach" style pass plays as pseudo run attempts where the NFL is a more down the field game. The fly sweep is also something you don't see a ton at the NFL level.
We averaged what, 33 ppg this year basically, even TO prone and square peg, round holing it? If we can continue offensive and defense progress, we could be pretty formidable. I like where recruiting is at, lot of potential there. We may still flame out, who knows, but I think it'll be a fun ride to see a lot of these youngsters get along. Its been a fair while since NU has had a youth movement like this, and we're counting on them to carry a lot of water.
Again as I have stated on numerous posts - I like Mike Riley - He has the exact right demeanor for Nu football and he is an honorable man the state would be proud of. If he can WIN he will be here as long as he wants and I would love it. I have no faith however that unless he changes he will win at level here that would be acceptable. I think of all the posts in the preseason about how he would do so much better here because the talent level was so much better than OSU. Same posters when he started losing blamed the losses on not having any talent.
PS your statement "We averaged what, 33 ppg this year basically, even TO prone and square peg, round holing it? " Number 45 scoring offense in the country is not something to be proud of - its not disaster but far from great
I do want to ditch Riley's pro-style offense. Over the last five years he has proven it isn't a winner. I would take Iowa's or MSU's pro-style offense with a focus on the power run game in a second. Ummmmmm...that isn't backing up. It's exactly what I said from the start. The idea that we are watching the same offense when we watch Iowa and Nebraska play today is flat-out silly. It's like saying Nebraska and Oklahoma both ran the same option offenses back in the 80's. Dumb.
The two statements are not incompatible.
Preseason we hadn't started like 20 something guys on either side of the football due to injury and optimism ran high. I don't think its any great coincidence our best ball was played towards the end of the year when the majority of the projected starters were back.
It wasn't soley the opinion of message board types, Zatechka, Frazier, Vrzal and others kind of went on at length about the various problems we had in that mix of depth, talent, injury.
You also have to understand that the big divide on the board isn't probably so much anti-Riley and Riley, so much as it is timeline. Some guys were saying before the season that Riley would have to do better than 9 wins to justify what we did to Bo. You other guys saying most coaches in transition don't win all that many games, where 7-8 wins might be really possible and 4-6 if injuries to TA or some combination of key players started piling up.
The key differentiation I see out of the anti Riley guys is that they keep clamoring about 2 things:
1. I don't like what he does and I have no faith (which is basically a conversation showstopper for that individual, I guess go watch Iowa)
2. I want Riley to change, but I don't want to give any time to see if those changes amount to anything because he sucked this year and should be fired. (the unsolvable conundrum). Also see #1.
If a guy wants to camp at #1, then camp at number 1 and leave everyone alone. You are here to troll. If a guy is a number one, but is open to seeing changes, then admit that changes take some measure of time and experimentation (not 20 years but probably a couple), and get off the board after every bad series talking about how much you want the coaches gone.
I'm looking for all the "he sucked this year and should be fired" posts. So far it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
Ah ok, so its "Riley's pro-style" offense and not Riley's "pro-style" offense.
Gotcha.
On the whole I guess I'm not panicked. MSU runs the ball 6-7% more than we do. Which works out to 4.8 plays per game at the number of snaps we had and slightly more than 5 at the number of snaps MSU takes.
From a 5-7 squad running *any* system, I figured we'd have to be 5 plays per game better, no matter what aspect you are harping on. Someone posted the penalty numbers from early in the season to late in the season, and we were 5 plays per game better in just that aspect. I would also wager we were 5 plays per game better in the secondary as well.
Its not some sort of insurmountable "start over" type of challenge.
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When Riley makes some changes from what he has been doing that has not worked then I will be the first one on board to say he needs time to get them to work - he has not changed one single thing
I would respectfully say that you aren't looking hard enough. There are plenty of posters who have stated, from the middle of the season on, that it was not only a mistake to hire him, but that we should cut our losses now before any further damage is done. These statements certainly were not made by the majority, but there were enough saying these things that it's like looking for a very large needle in a very small haystack.
You may not be saying this, Snohomish may not be saying this, but it has been said repeatedly. Not verbatim, "He sucked this year and should be fired", but there were plenty who stated something to this effect.
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Sure, finding threads is somewhat a needle in haystack (lots of content generated on here), but in just the three I provided you have quite a number of board regulars who think Riley sucks and should have been canned.
That's not even counting Snohomish, who I believe expressed that they should be, but its too bad politics would get in the way of it.
For a team that "desperately" wants to "run straight ahead", going to the well for the ultimate misdirection play multiple times when their backs are against the wall...seems like it should be out of character, but it obviously is not.
Maybe your post wasn't the best to pick to reply to, but my point is this: it really seems like many posters are setting a false dichotomy of OCs/Teams are either pass-first finesse teams or tough-nosed ground and pound teams. When the reality is, teams that have a reputation as either of those, must have other aspects within their offense. Not just a gadget play they can dust off, but an actual honest to goodness part of their offense that they regularly run. And that's just not the impression I get from many posters. Like many things in life, it's not black or white, but rather some varying shade of gray in between.
Maybe my impression is way off base, but that's just the sense I get from my time spent (mostly) lurking. If it's way off base towards you, I apologize for choosing your posts to reply to.
He is having the same issues he had at OSU. It's time for him to make some changes. Line up and run right at people...give your qb easy pass plays to complete (He ain't Dan Marino or Dan Fouts back there)...stop being sneaky and just get the first down on 3rd and 4th and short...start using your offensive play calling to set up plays later in the game...utilize the qb run game. Finally, switch up the play caller...he ain't getting it done.
So you had to find threads from more than a month ago to support your notion that anti-Riley guys just keep clamoring about him sucking and wanting him fired. I don't think that fits the definition of "keep clamoring."
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