Expectations, Fan Perception, and Realism

[DukeOfSorrow]

DISCLAIMER: I'm not posting this thread about any current or former coach/administrator. I'm just making an observation on something I find interesting.

The other day I was reading an article commemorating the 07 season. It's crazy to think about how long ago that really was, it feels like it was just a few years ago to me. Needless to say, that season was a mess, and the defense was like using a mesh grate as a dam. Most of us want to forget how bad it really was.

As usual, I started getting sidetracked, and used the archived stories on CornNation, particularly the post-game analysis ones after each game, and others that seemed pertinent to how people felt at the time. I also paid attention to the comment sections, to get a pulse on what others were thinking at the time as well. Essentially, I was reliving the season with 20/20 hindsight, and seeing things I had actually forgotten from that year.

But the point of this post isn't the 07 season. I observed something interesting in this little quest. Pre-season and very early season, people saw that as "the year". We were gonna dethrone USC and march on to a title shot. Then things started falling apart, but even as the gut-wrenching signs started showing themselves, like in the USC game and the massive running lanes, people were still not facing the reality of what was about to happen as conference play deepened. Then it got really ugly, and the rest is history.

I guess what I saw was how much expectations and "realistic goals" have changed over the years. Some people say the bar is "still high", but anyone who talks today like many of those fans were talking then, they'll get called delusional. Heck, a large amount of people, I think, don't expect us to ever hit the kind of mark people expected out of the 07 regularly again.

So my "food for thought" questions are:
- We know the expectation bar has moved over time, but what do you guys think played the biggest hand in that?
- Why did everyone think the 07 team was going to contend? Did the fan base underestimate the difficulty of maintaining a perennial power?

 

[headcard]

The 05 and 06 seasons showed progress and Top 25 rankings. The 07 recruiting class and the transfer in of San Keller also brought in a ton of hype. That team did have some offensive talent, but we defense totally quit and the Ganz/Keller controversy divided the team.

However, I would say expectations were much higher in 2010 than 2007.

 

[inWV]

Both Keller and Ganz were good enough to win games, but the D under-performed at an epic level. Things became a death march. Seeing Ganz play at a high level at the end of the season was a bright spot, plus the expectation that the reset button was going to be hit wrt the coaching staff.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I don't get caught up in the long term expectations much anymore. I generally believe Nebraska should be competing for division titles every year. If that happens then they will win it on occasion. If you win the west, then you have a shot at winning the conference title. If you win the conference title, you will be in the talk for the CFP.

That hasn't really changed for me over the years.

Annual expectations change but they changed before 2007. If you go back to 1989, the expectations were that we would be competitive in the Big 8 and battle with Oklahoma and Colorado. Then go to a bowl and get beat by a fast Florida or other southern team. So I am not sure you can assign blame to fallen expectations.

The 2007 team had high expectations because the team won the division in 2006 and played respectable in the CCG and outplayed Auburn in the bowl game and there was an expectation that Keller would replace Zac Taylor and the offense would be better.

My opinion is that a bit of a corner has been turned for this version of Nebraska football. The problem is that people don't want to believe the intangible things you can discuss in the preseason. Little things like running between drills, player accountability, a QB that fits the offense better, whatever you want to look at. People see the lack of returning production and can't assign a value to it. Those same people can look at Clayton Thorson and even though he doubled his production from freshman year to sophomore year, his team was 3 games worse. But they can assign a value to his production, and because he is a 3rd year returner that equates to more wins.

I also believe that the balance of competition across college football is much more even than it was 10, 20 and 30 years ago. There are simply more teams that can beat you and more teams win 4 games one year then 10 the next, then back to 6 the following. That has to factor into yearly expectations.

Either way, I am excited for the 2017 season. I truly believe that the defense will surprise people with how they play and I believe the offensive line will be improved and play much better and there is at least depth that isn't walkon or true freshman depth at that position.

GBR.

 

[nebcountry]

So my "food for thought" questions are:
- We know the expectation bar has moved over time, but what do you guys think played the biggest hand in that?
- Why did everyone think the 07 team was going to contend? Did the fan base underestimate the difficulty of maintaining a perennial power?

We know the expectation bar has moved over time, but what do you guys think played the biggest hand in that? We've been slightly north of mediocre for too long. If you think we will be great, then we lay an egg. And then we think NOW we will be great, and we lay another egg. At some point you might recognize that it's gonna take more than thinking to make us great again.

Why did everyone think the 07 team was going to contend? Callahan's teams had been getting better. It was the 4th season under the new HC and all the new recruited talent that was so much better than the older guys was gonna show up on the field now. We were back in the top 25, and we were ready to see a big step up. Time wise, we weren't so far removed from being a perennial contender, why wouldn't we be moving back up.

Did the fan base underestimate the difficulty of maintaining a perennial power? The fan base underestimated the value of good coaching. It was too easy to take for granted TO and Devaney. Two great coaches in a row, they must grow on trees.

 

[huskerfan1414]

I remember that 07 season, and i was absolutely not buying the hype. I never believed in Callahan or that asshat AD. At the same time, I didnt expect it to get that bad but boy did it.
In my opinion, expectations left the day asshat AD stood up and said we arent surrending the big 12 yadda yadda. More notibly, it happened after our first losing season in 800 years and i couldnt believe how people shrugged it off and were still high on seeing us shift into different sets against western Illinois and going ooooo aaahhhh. Husker fans were like little girls with shiny new play rings....it looked cool and pretty but they are too stupid to see that it was really false, cheap glamour with no foundation and would obviously break someday, spare me the crap about how great his offense was, I am 100% confident in saying Callahan would have never won here regardless of coordinators....it was the way the program wa run.
Anyway, I say expectations left the building after the "one game, one season, look at your shiny new toy hillbillys" mentality that swept through husker nation. I remember wondering how some husker fans could be so dumb, and I always believed we were the smartest fans in CF until that era. Now when I hear that I scoff.

But you will say, well what about 07 then!? 07 wasnt expectations, it was hope. It was all those Nebraska fans playing a slot machine after putting in 500 bucks and saying "alright, its gonna hit now baby!" They had written a large check, made a big investment, burned a lot of bridges with the past, sold their soul to the devil himself and they were desperatly hoping for a payoff, especially those who obnoxiosuly made fun of everything solich/option related. They needed validation that their superior football intellect over those stupid "run the ball!" guys was indeed supported, even if their opinion of them was a caricature of thr truth (still is). (Please note my opinion has nothing to do with the firing of Frank in itself, hard to explain the difference, but its more about how it was handled and how it went afterward and with who it went with afterward)

Next you'll say "well we obviously still had expectations since we fired both of them" i will disagree sort of. At that point we were simply displaying what anyone with any expectations, no matter how low, would do. Nebraska expectations were always higher, not on par with Colorado or someone. Also, it still had a veil of hope behind it, because we ran back to TO to save us. (Note, when tom came back, most were very happy.)
It was the equivilent of that little girl whos ring just broke in half crying to dad after she realized it was fake. So Tom did what people, again, wanted him to. Hired Bo Pelini. Maybe not everyones first choice, but it made sense and was well recieved.
Pelinis entire tenure is an example of low expectations and hope. The whole misguided and inacurrate argument that tom only won 9 games too (pissed me off sooooo much) was an example of the continued low expectations. It was still hope...hope we break through. From a personal standpoint, I was happy with the Pelini hire but I really cooled on him after a Texas loss and his final two years I wanted him gone. The 9 win crowd was simply infuriating.
Then we hired Riley. For those who questioned why Tom would only go after a few candidates, which itself could be considered low expectation, you must also question Eichorsts handling of the coaching search. My intent is to not start an argument here, though.however, my biggest fear about Riley is the fact that NU fans have low expectations. He is nicer and better to the fans than Bo. His recruiting effort and love of Nebraska is better than Bo. He is a good ambassador who wont piss his pants. His staff is better than Bos. These things are all good, but if our fanbase has any expectations left it wont be enough. This is the same trap people fell in with Bo after the Cally years..."you remember cally? Want that again?." ......NU fans have been jaded for so long that we dont understand its possible to have all the things Riley brings to the table, and win games and titles! That should be our expectation but truly I dont think it is. I think that is still our hope. We are now a fanbase of hope.
The good news is that while I have been critical of Riley when he deserves it ( first season still inexcusible and fan reaction is a little too much like Callys) i do believe we will see improvement this year and Riley has done what cally and Bo wouldnt do...upgrade his staff. I never felt Cally would turn the corner. Im starting to think Riley can. My expectation is to win at least 9 or 10 games this year (depending on who we beat or lose to) and win the West while not getting blown out. I expect Riley to have won a conference title by the end of year 5. I will not relent on these expectations. If he can do it, the fanbase will get better. If he doesnt, I will be skeptical of his ability and call him out on it, only to be harassed by the hope crowd with a myraid of excuses and name calling.

Sorry for the book, but I feel this is important to understand. Expectations ended during Callys introduction, and if Nebraska football is dead or on life support it was that asshat AD with a dumb haircut that did the crime. I hope Riley can right the ship, and Im glad to say that unlike my feelings toward Cally or Bo his final years, I expect him to.

 

[dinglefritz]

Both Keller and Ganz were good enough to win games, but the D under-performed at an epic level. Things became a death march. Seeing Ganz play at a high level at the end of the season was a bright spot, plus the expectation that the reset button was going to be hit wrt the coaching staff.

IMO, the build up of expectations played a large part in WHY the season fell apart. IMO had the expectations been an ass whipping from USC, we wouldn't have seen the complete implosion. IMO the defense gave up. The offense still put up some numbers. We had some former Huskers with younger brothers on the team telling them to play defense differently than they were being coached. We also had former Huskers mostly privately calling for Coz's and BC's heads after USC. Lots of negative locker room talk IMO contributed to the slide. Morale is a BIG deal in football.

 

[DukeOfSorrow]

I remember that 07 season, and i was absolutely not buying the hype. I never believed in Callahan or that asshat AD. At the same time, I didnt expect it to get that bad but boy did it.
In my opinion, expectations left the day asshat AD stood up and said we arent surrending the big 12 yadda yadda. More notibly, it happened after our first losing season in 800 years and i couldnt believe how people shrugged it off and were still high on seeing us shift into different sets against western Illinois and going ooooo aaahhhh. Husker fans were like little girls with shiny new play rings....it looked cool and pretty but they are too stupid to see that it was really false, cheap glamour with no foundation and would obviously break someday, spare me the crap about how great his offense was, I am 100% confident in saying Callahan would have never won here regardless of coordinators....it was the way the program wa run.
Anyway, I say expectations left the building after the "one game, one season, look at your shiny new toy hillbillys" mentality that swept through husker nation. I remember wondering how some husker fans could be so dumb, and I always believed we were the smartest fans in CF until that era. Now when I hear that I scoff.

But you will say, well what about 07 then!? 07 wasnt expectations, it was hope. It was all those Nebraska fans playing a slot machine after putting in 500 bucks and saying "alright, its gonna hit now baby!" They had written a large check, made a big investment, burned a lot of bridges with the past, sold their soul to the devil himself and they were desperatly hoping for a payoff, especially those who obnoxiosuly made fun of everything solich/option related. They needed validation that their superior football intellect over those stupid "run the ball!" guys was indeed supported, even if their opinion of them was a caricature of thr truth (still is). (Please note my opinion has nothing to do with the firing of Frank in itself, hard to explain the difference, but its more about how it was handled and how it went afterward and with who it went with afterward)

Next you'll say "well we obviously still had expectations since we fired both of them" i will disagree sort of. At that point we were simply displaying what anyone with any expectations, no matter how low, would do. Nebraska expectations were always higher, not on par with Colorado or someone. Also, it still had a veil of hope behind it, because we ran back to TO to save us. (Note, when tom came back, most were very happy.)
It was the equivilent of that little girl whos ring just broke in half crying to dad after she realized it was fake. So Tom did what people, again, wanted him to. Hired Bo Pelini. Maybe not everyones first choice, but it made sense and was well recieved.
Pelinis entire tenure is an example of low expectations and hope. The whole misguided and inacurrate argument that tom only won 9 games too (pissed me off sooooo much) was an example of the continued low expectations. It was still hope...hope we break through. From a personal standpoint, I was happy with the Pelini hire but I really cooled on him after a Texas loss and his final two years I wanted him gone. The 9 win crowd was simply infuriating.
Then we hired Riley. For those who questioned why Tom would only go after a few candidates, which itself could be considered low expectation, you must also question Eichorsts handling of the coaching search. My intent is to not start an argument here, though.however, my biggest fear about Riley is the fact that NU fans have low expectations. He is nicer and better to the fans than Bo. His recruiting effort and love of Nebraska is better than Bo. He is a good ambassador who wont piss his pants. His staff is better than Bos. These things are all good, but if our fanbase has any expectations left it wont be enough. This is the same trap people fell in with Bo after the Cally years..."you remember cally? Want that again?." ......NU fans have been jaded for so long that we dont understand its possible to have all the things Riley brings to the table, and win games and titles! That should be our expectation but truly I dont think it is. I think that is still our hope. We are now a fanbase of hope.
The good news is that while I have been critical of Riley when he deserves it ( first season still inexcusible and fan reaction is a little too much like Callys) i do believe we will see improvement this year and Riley has done what cally and Bo wouldnt do...upgrade his staff. I never felt Cally would turn the corner. Im starting to think Riley can. My expectation is to win at least 9 or 10 games this year (depending on who we beat or lose to) and win the West while not getting blown out. I expect Riley to have won a conference title by the end of year 5. I will not relent on these expectations. If he can do it, the fanbase will get better. If he doesnt, I will be skeptical of his ability and call him out on it, only to be harassed by the hope crowd with a myraid of excuses and name calling.

Sorry for the book, but I feel this is important to understand. Expectations ended during Callys introduction, and if Nebraska football is dead or on life support it was that asshat AD with a dumb haircut that did the crime. I hope Riley can right the ship, and Im glad to say that unlike my feelings toward Cally or Bo his final years, I expect him to.

While I respect that opinion, and I use to think this same way, I now disagree. It wasn't tentative hope in 07, like it has been recently (like, for example, going into the Wiscy game last year). As I said, I was looking back to what people were actually saying that year, and there weren't too many people out preaching that we were in trouble until the ISU game. EVEN then, most people didn't believe the naysayers who warned we wouldn't win a game the entire next month. It felt quite different than what we face now. Although, that could be in part due to "the divide" as well.

 

[huskerfan1414]

While I respect that opinion, and I use to think this same way, I now disagree. It wasn't tentative hope in 07, like it has been recently (like, for example, going into the Wiscy game last year). As I said, I was looking back to what people were actually saying that year, and there weren't too many people out preaching that we were in trouble until the ISU game. EVEN then, most people didn't believe the naysayers who warned we wouldn't win a game the entire next month. It felt quite different than what we face now. Although, that could be in part due to "the divide" as well.

I still think you are confusing expectations and hope. At least as I understand it. We are in a light debate over different parameters.
However I dont think we are that far apart, nor does it matter, and Im glad you began the thread and I thiink we agree regarding our current state.
Part of the reason I call it hope is perhaps because of my own feelings at the tme. There was little in my opinion that told us we were going to compete for a title.

 

[HuskerO]

The 2007 team had high expectations because the team won the division in 2006 and played respectable in the CCG and outplayed Auburn in the bowl game and there was an expectation that Keller would replace Zac Taylor and the offense would be better.

Yup and if you looked at what we had returning on Defense for upperclassmen it was pretty solid.

Zack Bowman
Tierre Green
Cortney Grixby
Corey McKeon (he did have a good Jr year)
Steve Octavien
Bo Ruud
Amando Murillo (5* Juco I believe)
Zach Potter
Ty Steinkuhler
Clayton Seivers
Barry Turner

That's 11 solid guys, but I think losing Steward Bradley, Adam Carriker, Barry Cryer, Ola Dagunduro and Jay Moore to graduation hurt much more than we (definitely I) thought.

We really only lost Matt Herian (was never the same though), Dane Todd, Kurt Mann and Zac Taylor from the 2006 team so on Offense for upperclassmen you had;

Bretty Byford
Frantz Hardy
Josh Mueller
Carl Nicks
Terrence Nunn
JB Phillips
Maurice Purify
Kenny Wilson
Andy Christensen
Cody Glenn
Mike Huff
Marlon Lucky
Lydon Murtha
Todd Peterson
Matt Slauson
Nate Swift
Hunter Teafatiller
Chris Brooks (although only a Soph he was highly rated).

At the time it would make sense why expectations were so high for the 2007 team just based off returning talent alone.

I like our team this year, but I would definitely take some of those Jr's and Sr's off the 2007 team as well.

 

[DukeOfSorrow]

I still think you are confusing expectations and hope. At least as I understand it. We are in a light debate over different parameters.
However I dont think we are that far apart, nor does it matter, and Im glad you began the thread and I thiink we agree regarding our current state.
Part of the reason I call it hope is perhaps because of my own feelings at the tme. There was little in my opinion that told us we were going to compete for a title.

No, we aren't far off. Semantics TBH.

And yeah, I remember being skeptical at the time. I was worried about the defense being a weakness, although I had zero idea how bad it was actually going to be.

I guess the other reason I like going back to 07 is that there are similarities between then and now (gulp). Both were led into the season by a highly lauded transfer, both came off of a season where the defense showed some warning signs. But on the other hand, Riley has juggled his staff and hired known commodities, something Callahan didn't do. And while Lee may indeed be overhyped, most of Keller's hype came from within the program, Lee has scouts all over giving him nods. I know those are very basic comparisons, but I don't feel like going too deep and writing a book about it.

Here's hoping that those differences make all the difference!

 

[inWV]

2007 starters (from Game 1 2 deep) that were listed starters for the 2008 CU game: Stein, Suh, Potter, Murillo and Asante. Pelini had to replace the 5 seniors at LB at DB and swap Pierre Allen for Barry Turner due to injury.
Pretty clear that the 07 team played below expectations and talent level (at times, way below) and the 08 team played above.

 

[chicolby]

I'm pretty sure if there were message boards (and I was active on them), you can find me optimistic about every season going into the fall. Usually something along the lines of "if this game goes our way and the pieces fall into place, I could see something special happening."

Now granted, that is different than the late 90's early 2000's when I went into each season expecting a title-contending team. But blowout losses and losing seasons take their toll and so expectations slowly begin to erode. But never to the point of expecting a losing season.

Side note and partially related: I remember back in the 90s watching teams upset someone at home and having fans rush the field and/or take down the goalposts, and I remember asking myself whether the day would possibly come when Husker fans would rush a field after a victory, as every game was basically expected to be a win. I'm not sure if we're all the way there yet, but I could see if Nebraska would pull a stunner and knock off say an undefeated Ohio State, that it could actually happen.

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

 

[TwinsRRUs]

will be improved and play much better and there is at least depth that isn't walkon or true freshman depth at that position.

GBR.

That is a big deal. Upgrading the talent across the whole board along with scholarship depth.

I am all for walk-ons, but when the team's 2-deep depth chart is completely littered with walk-ons, that can't be a good thing...

To compete for championships, we need to be able to handle having a couple injuries to starters by filling in with talented backups that can and will perform.

 

[inWV]

That is a big deal. Upgrading the talent across the whole board along with scholarship depth.

I am all for walk-ons, but when the team's 2-deep depth chart is completely littered with walk-ons, that can't be a good thing...

To compete for championships, we need to be able to handle having a couple injuries to starters by filling in with talented backups that can and will perform.

2017 walkons on the offense/defense 2 deep as of May: Reimers, Conrad, Hoppes, McNitt, Weber. So five of the 45 listed players are walkons.

http://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-depth-charts/depth-chart/nebraska/91303

 

[Cornicator]

Having some walk ons in your 2-Deep isn't necessarily a kiss of death. However, you're going to really struggle to compete against elite teams when you have walk ons starting a "PREMIUM positions" like:

DE- If you want to win at the power 5 level you must have elite athletes who can disrupt the edge and scare opposing QB's.

QB - Enough said.

CB- This is the most difficult position in football. You can't play Power 5 level football without great athletes at Corner.

 

[inWV]

Having some walk ons in your 2-Deep isn't necessarily a kiss of death. However, you're going to really struggle to compete against elite teams when you have walk ons starting a "PREMIUM positions" like:

DE- If you want to win at the power 5 level you must have elite athletes who can disrupt the edge and scare opposing QB's.

QB - Enough said.

CB- This is the most difficult position in football. You can't play Power 5 level football without great athletes at Corner.

Agreed. And we do not have any 2-deep walkons at those spots. I think we can say Conrad and Weber earned their spots over legit scholarship guys. McNitt will not play a lot of snaps. Reimers might get some good looks and presents a matchup problem because of his height. Hoppes was behind three Seniors last year.

 

[SnohomishRed]

Having some walk ons in your 2-Deep isn't necessarily a kiss of death. However, you're going to really struggle to compete against elite teams when you have walk ons starting a "PREMIUM positions" like:

DE- If you want to win at the power 5 level you must have elite athletes who can disrupt the edge and scare opposing QB's.

QB - Enough said.

CB- This is the most difficult position in football. You can't play Power 5 level football without great athletes at Corner.

According to that thought we should beat Wisconsin every year no problem they start a lot of walkons

http://www.uwbadgers.com/news/2017/...ies-walk-ons-get-their-shot-at-wisconsin.aspx

Walk-ons are a big deal at Wisconsin. Nineteen have gone on to play in the NFL since 1990. Nine front-liners for the Badgers last season, including six with starting experience, were former walk-ons who earned scholarships. That includes a co-captain, tailback Dare Ogunbowale, and the Most Valuable Offensive Player in the Cotton Bowl, tight end Troy Fumagalli.

 

[Cornicator]

According to that thought we should beat Wisconsin every year no problem they start a lot of walkons

http://www.uwbadgers.com/news/2017/...ies-walk-ons-get-their-shot-at-wisconsin.aspx

Walk-ons are a big deal at Wisconsin. Nineteen have gone on to play in the NFL since 1990. Nine front-liners for the Badgers last season, including six with starting experience, were former walk-ons who earned scholarships. That includes a co-captain, tailback Dare Ogunbowale, and the Most Valuable Offensive Player in the Cotton Bowl, tight end Troy Fumagalli.

Do you see any walk on CBs at Wisconsin? Secondly, Dare was basically a 3rd string player who earned the Captain role as a leader. That cat will probably be a CEO some day.

There are always exceptions to the rule. And you can often compete with walk ons. But you will struggle if you need multiple walk ons at key spots.

 

[dinglefritz]

Do you see any walk on CBs at Wisconsin? Secondly, Dare was basically a 3rd string player who earned the Captain role as a leader. That cat will probably be a CEO some day.

There are always exceptions to the rule. And you can often compete with walk ons. But you will struggle if you need multiple walk ons at key spots.

I think from what I'm hearing from multiple knowledgeable guys, the walk on cornerback for the Huskers may be an outlier this year. IF you look at his high school career, the kid was a tremendous athlete. You don't want to have to depend on finding CB depth in a walk on tryout but it appears this kid may fill the bill. I can't remember a walk on CB ever playing significant time in important games for us.

 

[swissticuffs]

I've never really had any other expectation than to see them be nationally relevant. In this century that's happened maybe 2 or 3 times? ....Maybe 1.

The hardware is what matters but if you can't have that it would at least be nice to matter nationally. That means contending for the CFP in November.

Nebraska really caught lightning in a bottle with Devaney and TO. From '62 to '97 they played more games than any other team and won more games than any other team by a relatively significant margin. That's not ever going to happen again.

My expectation isn't going to change. I'd rather be dead than be happy about 9-3 with no hardware.

 

[timnsun]

I've never really had any other expectation than to see them be nationally relevant. In this century that's happened maybe 2 or 3 times? ....Maybe 1.

The hardware is what matters but if you can't have that it would at least be nice to matter nationally. That means contending for the CFP in November.

Nebraska really caught lightning in a bottle with Devaney and TO. From '62 to '97 they played more games than any other team and won more games than any other team by a relatively significant margin. That's not ever going to happen again.

My expectation isn't going to change. I'd rather be dead than be happy about 9-3 with no hardware.

When I think of lightning in a bottle, it isn't something that spans 37 years... it usually entails luck, and I don't think we were lucky.

I agree the likelihood of us seeing anything like that again is pretty remote though.

 

[SnohomishRed]

Do you see any walk on CBs at Wisconsin? Secondly, Dare was basically a 3rd string player who earned the Captain role as a leader. That cat will probably be a CEO some day.

There are always exceptions to the rule. And you can often compete with walk ons. But you will struggle if you need multiple walk ons at key spots.

JJ Watts was a walkon I believe at DE - My point was that walkons can be every bit as good at any position as a scholarship athlete. If a walkon is beating out guys on scholarship its because he earned it not necessarily because there is no depth.

Here is an interesting list which includes 2 star recruits many of which are walkons
http://btn.com/2016/02/25/what-an-all-big-ten-team-of-unheralded-recruits-would-look-like/

two corners on the list

Also there is walkon award given each year since 2010 - surprisingly 4 QB have won
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlsworth_Trophy

 

[NikkiSixx]

DISCLAIMER:
So my "food for thought" questions are:
- We know the expectation bar has moved over time, but what do you guys think played the biggest hand in that?
- Why did everyone think the 07 team was going to contend? Did the fan base underestimate the difficulty of maintaining a perennial power?

1. I think fans get tired of looking 'delusional', whether that be on their own teams message boards or otherwise. The blowouts during the last guy's years, all the drama, and then getting called out on national tv, talking smack, and get thumped over and over again. People don't like eating crow, so they lower expectations.
2. Offensively, we were doing pretty good that year, BC is a good offensive mind, but supporting KC, while somewhat admirable, caused everything to become unraveled. The sheer speed at which things went from a raise for BC to the wheels falling off, was as fast as I have ever seen. BC wasn't prepared for the culture here either. The throat slash and effing hillbilly's remark didn't sit well higher up either.

 

[Cornicator]

JJ Watts was a walkon I believe at DE - My point was that walkons can be every bit as good at any position as a scholarship athlete. If a walkon is beating out guys on scholarship its because he earned it not necessarily because there is no depth

No it's not. Brandon Reilly or Weber earning a spot is all about ability. Utter or Hahn is about players by default.

And JJ Watt is a once in a generation type player like Suh. He's a 1 out of 1,000 walk on example. You also have to consider he had offers out of the MAC from schools like Western Michigan. That's not exactly UNK or even South Dakota State. Most Defensive End walk ons are like Dzuris or Gangwish. Those guys are solid serviceable players, but you won't win Championships when you need them both to start.

 

[timnsun]

1. I think fans get tired of looking 'delusional', whether that be on their own teams message boards or otherwise. The blowouts during the last guy's years, all the drama, and then getting called out on national tv, talking smack, and get thumped over and over again. People don't like eating crow, so they lower expectations.
2. Offensively, we were doing pretty good that year, BC is a good offensive mind, but supporting KC, while somewhat admirable, caused everything to become unraveled. The sheer speed at which things went from a raise for BC to the wheels falling off, was as fast as I have ever seen. BC wasn't prepared for the culture here either. The throat slash and effing hillbilly's remark didn't sit well higher up either.

Effing hillbillies was reserved for Oklahoma fans, correct?

Good post though. Lots of truth here.

 

[NikkiSixx]

Effing hillbillies was reserved for Oklahoma fans, correct?

Good post though. Lots of truth here.

Yeah, given our history with OU, some people didn't like him giving them that kind of disrespect.. I didn't care so much about the throat slash (toward the ref) but BC was coming unglued as the season wore on..

 

[SnohomishRed]

No it's not. Brandon Reilly or Weber earning a spot is all about ability. Utter or Hahn is about players by default.

And JJ Watt is a once in a generation type player like Suh. He's a 1 out of 1,000 walk on example. You also have to consider he had offers out of the MAC from schools like Western Michigan. That's not exactly UNK or even South Dakota State. Most Defensive End walk ons are like Dzuris or Gangwish. Those guys are solid serviceable players, but you won't win Championships when you need them both to start.

not saying we should have a team full of walkons however we seem to be caught up in recruiting rankings - we out recruit Wisconsin, Iowa, and Northwestern by a fairly large margin by rankings even under Pelini - yet we struggle against them on the field - why? is their coaching so much better than ours or are the rankings flawed

I always wondered why Omaha and Lincoln turned out great players almost every year for decades then once people started ranking recruits these same kids were no longer worthy
Plus we signed 11 DE's from 2011 to 2014 attrition caused us to start 2 walkons even Pelini should have been to keep a few of those 11

 

[mel mains]

I think from what I'm hearing from multiple knowledgeable guys, the walk on cornerback for the Huskers may be an outlier this year. IF you look at his high school career, the kid was a tremendous athlete. You don't want to have to depend on finding CB depth in a walk on tryout but it appears this kid may fill the bill. I can't remember a walk on CB ever playing significant time in important games for us.

Ric Lindquist. (I'm almost sure he was a walk on.)

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

And when was the last time Wisconsin or Iowa was in a position to play for a national title? I'm not talking about a 2 or 3 loss season where they ended up in the top 10. But a legit shot coming down to the end of the season to be the national champ.

The problem with playing the Iowa and Wisconsin game, is that at some point they simply get outathleted. They have to play nearly flawless against more talented teams. Their offenses are designed to run clock and limit possessions. Their defenses are built to stop the run. Fewer possessions, fewer scoring opportunities, fewer points, equals closer games. Very rarely do you see blowouts. They happen but it's not like they drop 50 on all of their "weaker" opponents.

Every Big Ten west game is going to look the same this year. Limited possessions and limited scoring.

We can all look for the exception to the rule, and find a stray skill player that was under recruited and turned out to be good. But championship teams are not built with walk ons and 2 star talent.

No one ever goes through the list of 20-30 walk ons per year and points out the 19-28 that don't ever sniff the field. You will always have more Dylan Utter's than JJ Watts when looking at walk on contributions.

 

[nebcountry]

not saying we should have a team full of walkons however we seem to be caught up in recruiting rankings - we out recruit Wisconsin, Iowa, and Northwestern by a fairly large margin by rankings even under Pelini - yet we struggle against them on the field - why? is their coaching so much better than ours or are the rankings flawed

I always wondered why Omaha and Lincoln turned out great players almost every year for decades then once people started ranking recruits these same kids were no longer worthy
Plus we signed 11 DE's from 2011 to 2014 attrition caused us to start 2 walkons even Pelini should have been to keep a few of those 11

I don't know if my response even comes close to what you are looking for, but what the hay. If we borrow the success funnel it helps explain.

Let's go back 20+ years. We have freshman teams with 70+ freshman. Peak Huskers, if you're gonna survive you'll have to give it your all. This means 100% dedication and being pushed at the highest level, so much more if you're one of the undervalued guys. One guy physically matures well, has/develops the required skillet, and turns into a Husker. Many other guys don't have "it" and they're done. The bigger the numbers, the more chances of success, the funnel was bigger. This was before staff and scholarship reductions. Competition either makes you better or weeds you out. That machinery is mostly gone.

Recruiting ratings are more than an educated guess, but it's not an exact science. The funnel applies here as well. I'd rather be starting with a bunch of higher rated recruits compared to lower rated ones (hypothetically speaking).

As for our current level of competitiveness when compared to our division opponents, maybe that's a future discussion.

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

Ric Lindquist. (I'm almost sure he was a walk on.)

Nobody remembers Pat Ricketts?

 

[HuskerO]

Effing hillbillies

This is my fantasy football team name.

 

[dinglefritz]

Nobody remembers Pat Ricketts?

I was going to say Andy Means but I'm pretty sure he was a scholarship guy. Ricketts I thought was a scholarship guy too. Today with the limits they might have had to be walk ons. Lindquist was not a guy that athletically could probably play much today if I recall correctly.

 

[H8FULLGR8]

My realistic expectations for the huskers in football the next ten years include, beating Wisconsin at least 5 times, beating Iowa at least 7 times and playing for B1G championship at least 5 times.

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

I was going to say Andy Means but I'm pretty sure he was a scholarship guy. Ricketts I thought was a scholarship guy too. Today with the limits they might have had to be walk ons. Lindquist was not a guy that athletically could probably play much today if I recall correctly.

Negative on Ricketts. Same with Means.

 

[ridge22]

So my "food for thought" questions are:
- We know the expectation bar has moved over time, but what do you guys think played the biggest hand in that?
- Why did everyone think the 07 team was going to contend? Did the fan base underestimate the difficulty of maintaining a perennial power?

For me the bar has moved and it is from the parity that has come about in college football. With the scholarship rules now the playing field has been level to a certain extent. You are seeing teams like Duke compete in the ACC TCU and Baylor in the Big 12. These universities and conferences see how much money is being thrown around and so the spending war is only going to fuel that.

People thought the 07 team was going to contend because they were fans. As a fan, before any games you over look the warts on the team and have rose colored glasses on. Much like this year, I think there are some holes on this team and I think they will need so breaks to contend for a division title. But by the same respect I am sure most people in Happy Valley thought that last year and look how that turned out.

I do think that having a more leveled playing field is great for a college football fan like myself. With almost every game on TV it is nice to be able to stumble across an Arizona-Stanford game or something like that late on a Saturday and be entertained.

 

[SnohomishRed]

And when was the last time Wisconsin or Iowa was in a position to play for a national title? I'm not talking about a 2 or 3 loss season where they ended up in the top 10. But a legit shot coming down to the end of the season to be the national champ.

The problem with playing the Iowa and Wisconsin game, is that at some point they simply get outathleted. They have to play nearly flawless against more talented teams. Their offenses are designed to run clock and limit possessions. Their defenses are built to stop the run. Fewer possessions, fewer scoring opportunities, fewer points, equals closer games. Very rarely do you see blowouts. They happen but it's not like they drop 50 on all of their "weaker" opponents.

Every Big Ten west game is going to look the same this year. Limited possessions and limited scoring.

We can all look for the exception to the rule, and find a stray skill player that was under recruited and turned out to be good. But championship teams are not built with walk ons and 2 star talent.

No one ever goes through the list of 20-30 walk ons per year and points out the 19-28 that don't ever sniff the field. You will always have more Dylan Utter's than JJ Watts when looking at walk on contributions.

Wisconsin and Iowa have been much closer than us to winning a national title - I would settle for being Wisconsin they play well against teams that supposedly have better talent - LSU last year - OSU last year Michigan was a close game last year - they are always in the the top 20 and many times top ten. I would be happy to be Wisconsin

 

[Toms Wife]

So my "food for thought" questions are:
- We know the expectation bar has moved over time...

Wait...what?