There is an article in the Washington times about several Biological Warfare Facilities in Wuhang China. The Chinese claim they only conduct defensive research and not for Attack. Crazy shit going down.
Corona Virus
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There is an article in the Washington times about several Biological Warfare Facilities in Wuhang China. The Chinese claim they only conduct defensive research and not for Attack. Crazy shit going down.
So, at first, mortality rate was 3%, it's now 4%.
Thats one third as high as the spanish flu if it goes no higher, and thats with todays technology and faster time to treat people.
This appears to be serious enough on its own, no, it doesn't need the media cheerleading it along.
Thats one third as high as the spanish flu if it goes no higher, and thats with todays technology and faster time to treat people.
This appears to be serious enough on its own, no, it doesn't need the media cheerleading it along.
The last I heard not 1 child has gotten it. Also the only thing I have heard is the majority who have died are 60+. The youngest being 35 who had "chronic health issues" according to the article. As of right now this is nothing to fear. My wife has been in health care for 15 years. She said when people would come into hospital with symptoms of flu. If it came back neg 9 our of 10 time is would be Corona Virus. Now yes this is a new strain.
I personally am not an MD although I do have multiple family members who are and I have a doctorate in a medical field. I have been involved with epidemiological investigations in the past. The scary thing about a virus like this is that you're not sure how it will change in virulence or antigenicity over time. The other issue is how mobile we are now and the thousands of people who have traveled to and from China over the past couple of weeks. I'm not sure how much we can trust China about the severity of the outbreak over there either.
When one talks about it only killing immunosuppressed people or people over the age of 60, THAT'S A BUNCH OF PEOPLE in this country. Personally I'm on an immune modulator for an autoimmune disease and over 60. Sounds to me like I should just drop my pants, stick my head between legs and kiss my ass goodbye. It will be interesting to watch as they figure out all of the details of transmission and pathology with this one. Unlike SARS, it appears that people incubating the virus are contagious several days prior to becoming clinically ill. THAT is a big deal.
Literally time bombs.
And the mortality rate is climbing, not greatly so, but if this does mutate to be even more deadly, we are in some trouble
Someone mentioned the Spanish Flu. That was a nasty as the mortality curve for that was in the shape of a W rather than a U. It mutated and was deadly on very healthy people as it corrupted their strong immune systems and made it work against them.
Very True. I don't want to minimize the potential for this becoming a big problem very fast. It just seems the media scares us with something every cold and flu season and it ends up being nothing by March.
It’s been a rough flu season/year.
Hospitals and clinics in my area already well aware and taking precautions against corona virus. Hate to say it, but Ebola has strengthened hospital emergency preparations.
Hospitals and clinics in my area already well aware and taking precautions against corona virus. Hate to say it, but Ebola has strengthened hospital emergency preparations.
The mayor of Wuhan now supposedly says that >5 million people fled Wuhan before the travel ban went in to place. There's now 5 confirmed cases in the U.S.. With the virus apparently being shed before people are symptomatic, it's anybody's guess as to how many people are infected and shedding the virus right now in this country. I would think the rate of transmission from people who were on those airplanes with the confirmed carriers would be pretty high. I will not be surprised if hundreds of thousands of Chinese fall ill with this. You have to wonder how long it took them to figure out that they had a problem. MOST of the people who would have been shopping at that market would not have received modern healthcare when they became ill.
Along with much higher numbers, much faster and better transportation, information has also increased in a much faster way and wider.
People wouldnt find out for days, while incubation stirred, but also didnt travel away.nor as far.
More than 5 million is bad news.
The Chinese new year, which is their biggest holiday was closing in, and people go to certain areas, family, new areas for excitement etc, it sounds like they all fled, besides those who could get out early on.
But those going for the holiday, theyre from everywhere, coming back to celebrate.
"Official" death toll stood at 56 today including a Dr. treating patients with flu like symptoms. Confirmed cases is over 2000 according to government reports. Knowing the numbers being reported for similar things they've had in the past, you can probably multiply those numbers by a factor of 10. What one has to remember is that the vast majority of people when they become ill are sent to hospitals for the masses where they do very little or only use traditional remedies. A human life in China is worth very little. It is a very small minority of more well to do people who get modern medical care.
This is a pretty serious virus with a ~4% death rate. Fortunately for the rest of the world, China has been very good at communication and quarantine. The media is spot on with making this a big deal.
Is the 4% lethality with respect only to diagnosed cases? I've heard estimates that there may be as many as 10 times of contracted cases with minor symptoms that haven't been formally diagnosed, which could be more like 0.4% lethality--similar to flu
I'm not sure anybody knows for sure yet. My assumption would be that there's probably some sub-clinical or mild cases that don't get reported. Again though the health care system is very poor for the masses. I've had a family member contract a very serious food borne infection in China and nearly die there. The only way we were able to get him any help was to have a health insurer grease some officials there to move him from a public hospital to a university teaching hospital. It was a nightmare. Anybody making statistical assumptions based on numbers the government of China is releasing is chasing fools gold.
Average fatality is 70 years old. It has a mortality rate that is near the flu considering the location...an area with awful respiratory health and an aging population and overwhelmed medical situation. The flu is more dangerous to a healthy person right now as Influenza B can be quite nasty for children and teenagers. I am glad this is a big deal, and a positive sign that China has been proactive and open. Not sure if Corona viruses can mutate easily in humans but each person it passes through is a chance to get worse...I hope CDC pushes through a vaccine just to practice the procedure and learn from mistakes. We want this thing ironed out when a high mortality, high transmission virus mutates.
I don't understand how a virus can be shed without symptoms. Does the person just leak virus from their pores? Is it in saliva? Viruses by nature have to lyse cells to multiple...that process causes symptoms, ie sore throat. They also initiate fever, cough, vomiting to spread because a person who isn't coughing, sweating, or shedding mucus isn't very contagious. My impression is the myth about it spreading before symptoms to alleviate punishment after the government finds out how mobile sick people actually were...if you can spread it without symptoms then you have no culpability in spreading it.
Like anyone, people vary,their systems vary. While one person could be sick immediately, another may be immune or barely effectd.
In the mean time, they are carriers, and as the virus expands,or multiplies, the count increases in water droplets.
If a person clears their throat, in their hands, then touches another person,by shaking their hand, and that person then eats something right away, its possible to get infected.
All this depends on the virility of the virus of course, those being introduced to it etc. Some virus can exist on certain surfaces longer than others on the same surfaces etc.
The saying, you want to get sick, just go to the hospital is true, mainly because the patients themselves don't clean up like the staff does, and if the patients are mobile,so then too are the germs.
The big thing is the unknowns, they're saying a twp week incubation period, but at what point are others infectious? The cdc doesn't have all these answers, theyve yet to discover the origins of the virus, which can help in defending against it, like, was it a bat that was eaten, or a snake? These are generalities, known histories of how,or how long lasting,or how or who may be infected.
I'm just a layman, and don't want to spread rumors, especially on this virus that currently the cdc itself is somewhat in the dark on.
I always have believed the insidious nature of most viruses is that you are contagious before symptomatic.
I don’t care what public officials are saying (mainly to forestall a panic) but you are correct: this is a big deal. The Chinese are liars and there is no way to know how many infected people are walking around in the United States right now. Scary shit.
seems like the "official" death toll numbers are climbing by the hour. By their actions, I think the Chinese are signaling that this is much worse than what the numbers so far are telling us. My suspicion is that the death toll is MUCH higher than what they are reporting.
It is very common for viruses to be shed before the infected individual is symptomatic. Often times symptoms are the effect of the immune response or at least exacerbated by the immune response to the viral proteins and there may be some lag time for fever etc to occur.
It was reported last night that the U.S. has evacuated their employees from the U.S. Consulate in Wuhang. I don't know if they flew them back to the U.S. or some other location. Things that make you go hmmmm.
Sorry, I don't open links on this board but I get the drift of the story by the title. Given how this is being handled over there combined with the evacuation of U.S. citizens, I suspect there's a high likelihood that something like that happened. You just don't shut down cities of 80 Million people for a virus that is "no worse than influenza". F'n China. We've either given or let them steal our technology and gave them our manufacturing capabilities with our labor and environmental laws without holding their feet to the fire on either. Then for added measure they manipulate our commodity markets through government controlled trading companies. We're getting screwed by them at every level one can think of.
Saw a stat the other day that said that there are OVER 500,000 Chinese citizen students in the U.S. and they're taking primarily science and math based coursework with many in doctoral and masters programs.
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Thinking about this, what exactly would they be doing? Watching out windows? Business and travel is shut down. I'm guessing food and checkups are being done door to door by the military, people can't buy food with no stores open, so, it's delivered I would assume.
They're just a burden on the Chinese at this point.
The bigger question is can the US contain and control it better than China. China is basically a 3rd world country so its not a huge surprise that these virus start there and run rampant.
I think the reason that they are evacuating U.S. consulate employees is that there isn't good medical care available for them there if someone does become ill and/OR this virus is much worse than the Chinese are leading us to believe. News reports say they are turning people away from over flowing hospitals. Personally I think it's both. I read an article that said that they are allowing some forms (taxis etc) of transportation to operate in those cities but no personal vehicles in certain areas. People are wearing surgical masks and businesses that are open have hand sanitizer stations supposedly. The idea that this somehow was started by a mutation by a Corona-V in a snake accidentally contracted in a "wet market" seems more and more unlikely to me.
My problem with all this are the unknowns too.
Are we putting what we 'know' about flu in a higher light than what we truly know?
My thing is, reading some on the spanish flu,some actually had symptoms and died within hours.
Now, whether to believe such reports is one thing, but to 'know' what we know about flu may be overestimated.
Are there strains, newly mutated that could actually kill someone within hours as was claimed by the spanish flu? But even if we simply dont know, the same flu later went to a deadly form in a matter of months. Could this also have been what happened?
Was this just a non impactful form previously misdiagnosed in the backwaters of china, that suddenly mutated?
No one knows how this particular form came about.
It was interesting to me that the official Chinese report that this was a virus originating from a Corona-V from a snake in a "wet market" came out so quickly. That sounds to me like a government trying to plant a story. I just have a very hard time believing that a reptilian virus would make that jump so quickly and effectively to mammals.
Agreed, and the cdc it seems hasnt officially said theyve been told of any origins either.
A years estimate I'd heard on any true reactive solutions.
Someone either needs to drill down to first infection, or whatever else may be known. The other response was from bats. The problem I have with all this is, the chinese often eat things other countries do not, as well as many african nations, home of ebola. They can rule on anything on their internet, yet approve with a wink about people eating bats?
This does show a disregard of the variances of their common knowledge in china, in that eating bats may bring certain problems.Same for green monkeys in africa. Or, laying on infected and dead people at funerals.
I can understand africa, as those things have religious elements which are hard to break, but in china, no way would certain things be allowed like that, yet wet markets selling snake and bats, thats ok?
I just read how the customs stopped a live shipment of crabs native to china here, that are so invasive and destructive,theyre banned worldwide. Ive seen other such customs seizures as well, with varying types of chinese animals that are very evasive as well.
The silver carp has damaged our rivers and lakes in many places and are spreading. Point here is, food has a very strong position in the minds of the chinese as well as others, and while evasive in our environs here, some are simply deadly.
One thing that's different about this virus is it seems to have a longer incubation stage where you can infect people. Makes me wonder about whether it's something that escaped the research labs. Probably shouldn't speculate like that but such is life.
There is no Wuhan virus. This disinformation campaign is the first step in the rollout of Operation Jade Helm 15. The drone army has been calibrated and troops are ready to roll. Stock up on your guns and ammo and be prepared for judgment day.
Aha...China manipulating America. The last 30 years...hundreds of millions of chinese have literally slaved away to produce cheap american products, including some of our most beloved. These people spent their entire lives in factories...morning to night...overnight...not having a chance at family, spirituality, or their own life experience. We are talking as many people as inhabit America....our economy has exploded in that time...from 1990 on... can you imagine the flip side....hundreds of millions of americans working for nothing, spending their entire lives so rich chinese can have cheap iphones. And then a chinese person gets on a message board and says those americans are taking advantage of us. It is absurd. They still have as many illiterate or functionally illiterate people as we have people.
If you don't understand what the outsourcing of manufacturing to China has done to the standard of living for blue collar workers in this country AND OUR ENVIRONMENT, then I don't think I can help you. On top of that, IMO it has dramatically harmed our national security. IF some type of military conflict would break out with China they have back doors in to much of our technology AND we don't have the ability to manufacture parts for much of our nation's production equipment. I can't hardly buy a part for my machinery now that isn't made in China.
They denied our cdc helps early on here.
Last time, thry didnt report a problem until four months had gone by.
I guess that's better? Is it up to standards of rationality, no.
Does it show their closed minded self pride and overarching control is dangerous to everyone else?
Yes
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