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A Thing Or Two About Horseracing

I know some race track vets😉. Are you sure you’re not autistic? Damn man you’ve got the goods.
Thanks, dingle. I'm not autistic, just driven to be a master at what I do.

I was the same way as a coach. The same way when I trained sprinters or throwers or basketball players.

I'm the same way with finances. I know I talk a lot and that's a turn-off to a lot of people, but I just know what I know, and I have no gray areas.

You and I got off on the wrong foot last year, and now, I've grown to have a huge respect for you. You're a really smart guy, have raised apparently huge achievers as adult children now.

You take a position and you are not gonna be swayed. In that respect, you and I are a lot alike. I respect a man of conviction, even if I don't always agree.

The last thing, it pisses me off when someone says a person can't be a successful gambler because they all lose. That may be true, but it sure as fvck isn't true about me. I own this sport.

Lastly, last thing. Please understand in a PUBLIC forum I can only go so far with what I can actually talk about. This is < 1% of my knowledge base on the subject of the total encompassing of this sport I have spent over 50 years concentrating on. There is not one aspect I haven't immersed myself in.
 
OT, but I'm always looking for those bad joke-woke folk.
True story I'll make it short! About 4 yrs ago, I was coming back Broken Bow, my il hometown! Stopped at Fonner for a race or two & low & behold ran into my friend Bill! Tanked to the gills! He had a back problem on Dr ordered Oxy & had been drinking! We greeted & he agreed that I would drive him home, but first he had to bet this next race! He bet & I did too! Bill stakered back with a $100 win ticket on #1! He used to live in Oakland CA, so that wasn't new to him! Race started ^ his horse last by the grandstand! He won at 6 to 1 odds & I collected for him!, drove him home after arguments with him in the parking lot! Called police & then he got in my car for a ride home! Bil & his wife thanked me many times! I was so glad I was there to help mt friend! Hes in recovery now a real good fella! I enjoy what everyone contributes! No 123, let it flow!! Thank you!,DP
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True story I'll make it short! About 4 yrs ago, I was coming back Broken Bow, my il hometown! Stopped at Fonner for a race or two & low & behold ran into my friend Bill! Tanked to the gills! He had a back problem on Dr ordered Oxy & had been drinking! We greeted & he agreed that I would drive him home, but first he had to bet this next race! He bet & I did too! Bill stakered back with a $100 win ticket on #1! He used to live in Oakland CA, so that wasn't new to him! Race started ^ his horse last by the grandstand! He won at 6 to 1 odds & I collected for him!, drove him home after arguments with him in the parking lot! Called police & then he got in my car for a ride home! Bil & his wife thanked me many times! I was so glad I was there to help mt friend! Hes in recovery now a real good fella! I enjoy what everyone contributes! No 123, let it flow!! Thank you!,DP
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Wow, that's a story that could have had a bad ending had you not stopped in to play a race or two.

Let's hope he can stay the course and win this thing in recovery.

Don't forget to give him a call every now and then just to encourage him!!
 
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Wow, that's a story that could have had a bad ending had you not stopped in to play a race or two.

Let's hope he can stay the course and win this thing in recovery.

Don't forget to give him a call every now and then just to encourage him!!
Wow, that's a story that could have had a bad ending had you not stopped in to play a race or two.

Let's hope he can stay the course and win this thing in recovery.

Don't forget to give him a call every now and then just to encourage him!!
 
Well, hes still in recovery, which is good! I'll need some help on this one 123 & anyone else! Working in the SunMart, Hastings meat dept in the 90's, the laundry guy, Dan & I would have horse conversations! One day he said I talked with the owner of Patricia's Grace & she is coming in sometime! Well I tracked her & every race bet $10 to16 on her! Several races, 4, 5 6 she ran! Finally 1 week before Fonner over she runs, I bet, she 4 or 5th! So I see next week closing weekend she's running again! One WEEK,! I say no way I'm betting. , she wins! Now she didn't pay real high so next time I see Dan the laundry guy, I says, Yep I had her! Funny one on me!
 
As a guy who spent way too many hours with horses as a kid I’ll agree that there are huge differences in the “want to” from horse to horse and that can make a big difference in a performance horse. I’ve watched some of the videos and read the “manuals” on equine psychology. It’s been a long time ago but it was interesting because it explained a lot of the why in what I used to see young horses in particular do. I actually helped my daughter use Monty Robert’s’ horse techniques to tame a goofy heifer that was her 4-H show project. His desensitization technique for wild horses worked very well. He points out in his videos how different each horse is but yet how their herd instincts can be used. All that said I had a big beautiful palomino filly about 10 years ago that I had to weigh up because there was just no trusting her. She would just fly apart at the smallest thing without regard for her own physical well being. In decades of being around horses I had never seen one as crazy as her.
Interesting, would I just Google & read the outline of the Robert's technique Monty Robert's? 🤔 And please explain Dinglefritz your handle! I'm fascinated! DP is just my initials! Thanks
 
My dad manages a horse stable for some of the wealthiest people in the country. I grew up around horses. Going to saratoga every summer. Ive tried to learn the business but he is quite literally such a guru and has such a love for it that i can confidently say i will never be to his level. We walk the back stables at any track in the country and he will know the Jockey's, trainers, owners etc. Name a horse and he will know the entire family tree from memory. Its incredible.
 
My dad manages a horse stable for some of the wealthiest people in the country. I grew up around horses. Going to saratoga every summer. Ive tried to learn the business but he is quite literally such a guru and has such a love for it that i can confidently say i will never be to his level. We walk the back stables at any track in the country and he will know the Jockey's, trainers, owners etc. Name a horse and he will know the entire family tree from memory. Its incredible.
It sounds like your dad is the kind of guy who has learned many aspects of that business inside and out.

Those types of people DO exist.
 
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It sounds like your dad is the kind of guy who has learned many aspects of that business inside and out.

Those types of people DO exist.
Yes, I find it fascinating on the fixation of the human mind! Find something we like & it's unlimited! Horses are interesting, and their heritage is fascinating! Cornhusker, WOW,what an opportunity!! 123, do horses run on the whole, faster today than in the past! I see some Fonnor Park results in some newspaper from the 70's when I do some research! 5 to 6 thousand people at Fonnor! One time in the 80's Aksaeben I parked way out in the parking lot! HA!
 
Yes, I find it fascinating on the fixation of the human mind! Find something we like & it's unlimited! Horses are interesting, and their heritage is fascinating! Cornhusker, WOW,what an opportunity!! 123, do horses run on the whole, faster today than in the past! I see some Fonnor Park results in some newspaper from the 70's when I do some research! 5 to 6 thousand people at Fonnor! One time in the 80's Aksaeben I parked way out in the parking lot! HA!
Tracks are much different today, generally deeper. Back in the days of the Secretariat, they were running on asphalt-like conditions. They also ran their 2 and 3-year-olds a lot more than nowadays. Secretariat was beaten 5 times in 21 starts.
 
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I remember you have a pretty extensive background with horses and couldn't agree more on some horses having a loose screw. We had one, Emily, and you didn't want to turn your back on her, cause she'd take a bite out of your shoulder.

Sounds like your palomino was an even dicier thing since it was random.
When they're flighty like that, you just can't drop your guard.

My favorite horse is one with 4 legs that can run really fast. LOL

By the way, Epicenter, who you really liked, did turn out to be a helluva good 3-year-old racehorse. 11 starts 6 wins, and 3 places, and a not-too-bad
$ 2,940.000.00 in earnings. In simple terms, every time they rolled him out of the barn into a race, he made them over 250K a pop.

This past Breeder's Cup in November he ran in the Classic and suffered a leg injury causing him to be retired to stud. The surgery went well and so now he gets to do the fun stuff as a reward for a nice career.

In that race, a horse called Flightline won by many lengths. In my many years of watching horses run, and I'm talking the super-elite horses, he is among the 3 greatest racehorses I've ever seen.

In a 6 race career, this horse has not even drawn a deep breath and so it's not really known how great this horse may have actually been.

Of course, like all the truly great ones these days, they retired him. It's a business and there are mega-millions for this horse to make as a stud.

Not in any particular order: Arrogate, Flightline, and of course Secretariat. In my opinion, there are no others that belong in that conversation.
Seemed like Arrogate was destined to be one of the greatest studds. Curious to see how Flightline does...
 
Seemed like Arrogate was destined to be one of the greatest studds. Curious to see how Flightline does...
Flightline is retired. Arrogate was a fabulous racehorse. He had 3 career losses and all were at Delmar. He HATED that surface, could never get ahold of the track, and always ran fearfully that he would fall.

He won everywhere in the world, and except for one BC race at 3, his margins were comfortable. I know Mike Smith for 40 years since he was an apprentice at AkSarBen. He rode Lure, Cigar, Holy Bull, Zenyatta, and some of the really good ones and he says no way they could touch Arrogate.

When he rolled him out at 3 at Saratoga and had breezed to an 11-length win against the best 3-year-olds in the country and broke Secretariats 10f record, you knew he was good.

Even in Dubai, the outrider said when he caught up with the horse, that horse wasn't breathing hard enough to blow out a candle. That run in Dubai was one of the most impressive races I have ever seen considering it was against the best in the world.

But, being at Santa Anita and watching Zenyatta beat the boys in the Classic was my favorite racetrack moment of all time, and it had zero to do with money.
 
Flightline is retired. Arrogate was a fabulous racehorse. He had 3 career losses and all were at Delmar. He HATED that surface, could never get ahold of the track, and always ran fearfully that he would fall.

He won everywhere in the world, and except for one BC race at 3, his margins were comfortable. I know Mike Smith for 40 years since he was an apprentice at AkSarBen. He rode Lure, Cigar, Holy Bull, Zenyatta, and some of the really good ones and he says no way they could touch Arrogate.

When he rolled him out at 3 at Saratoga and had breezed to an 11-length win against the best 3-year-olds in the country and broke Secretariats 10f record, you knew he was good.

Even in Dubai, the outrider said when he caught up with the horse, that horse wasn't breathing hard enough to blow out a candle. That run in Dubai was one of the most impressive races I have ever seen considering it was against the best in the world.

But, being at Santa Anita and watching Zenyatta beat the boys in the Classic was my favorite racetrack moment of all time, and it had zero to do with money.
Awesome. She was a monster. Saw Zenyatta in the pacific classic at Del Mar on the synthetic. How bummed were you when Go Go held on with Blame the next year? I was depressed.
 
Awesome. She was a monster. Saw Zenyatta in the pacific classic at Del Mar on the synthetic. How bummed were you when Go Go held on with Blame the next year? I was depressed.
A lot of stuff about Zenyatta people don't know. Before she ever broke her maiden, my son knew from Mike that she was likely very special. She was sort of a masochist. Mike said from the first time he "test whipped" her in a workout, she responded like, "yeah you sonofabitch, do it again." If he tapped her again, it was the same response. She was a physical monster.

John Shirreffs, the trainer, is about the nicest guy you can ever meet. Not only did he give Zenyatta a beer every day, but it also had to be the expensive, imported stuff. She wouldn't drink the cheap stuff. Shirreffs always said beer was good for them because, after all, beer is made with primarily grains, so he always felt it was good for their stomachs.

Many times when Zenyatta entered the paddock, the first time they walked her around she would stop and stare down the other mares. She was a dominant, Amazon-type intimidator.

Two side notes. I knew Garret Gomez when he was a 17-year-old apprentice. In fact, my son probably has 10 pairs of Garret's autographed race goggles he used to give my son after he won a race. Incredible rider even at that young age. It was a shame he got involved with drugs and shortened his career.

But, I didn't hold it against him when Blame beat Z in the Classic because I knew all the parties involved. Mike was devastated, and so was my wife who loved taking pictures of Zenyatta.

I asked Mike if Zenyatta was different than any horse he ever rode, and he said yes. He said your normal claimers, allowance, and less than Stakes horse will respond to starting the drive by taking 8-10 strides to launch into full flight. He said the Handicap and Stakes horses are like comparing those Volkswagons to the Porsches of the Handicap horses.

I'm taking a Hall of Fame jockey like Mike's word for it when he says, those high-caliber horses will launch into a full drive in 3-4 strides, from going hard to really turning on their jets. With Zenyatta, he said it was IMMEDIATE, one stride and she just sucked you back like the jets kicking in on a plane. He loved that mare, but he said at her best she could not have beaten Arrogate at 1 1/4 mile on the dirt.

The last comment, was when Zenyatta won the BC Classic at Santa Anita. As the horses are loading at the gate, Quality Road did not want to load, I was joking with John Shirreffs just before they finished loading. He was, understandably, so nervous I was trying to loosen him up.
 
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remember to post who is going to win the derby a few days in advance.
 
I’m just amazed at how it seems like people completely forgot about Ghostzapper(the best horse I’ve seen in my time as a horse guy…which is basically 2000-now) as soon as Flightline came along.

Ghostzapper just toyed with a phenomenal field in the 2004 BC Classic, and dominated at every distance he ran. I firmly believe he would have been favored, and also would have won, any race they wanted to enter in that BC, including the Mile and Turf.
 
Also, I love the #7 to finish in the top two in the 8th race at Aqueduct at 8-1 ML. Lightbulb went on.
 
I’m just amazed at how it seems like people completely forgot about Ghostzapper(the best horse I’ve seen in my time as a horse guy…which is basically 2000-now) as soon as Flightline came along.

Ghostzapper just toyed with a phenomenal field in the 2004 BC Classic, and dominated at every distance he ran. I firmly believe he would have been favored, and also would have won, any race they wanted to enter in that BC, including the Mile and Turf.
I haven't forgotten about Ghostzapper, he was an elite horse for his era.

He generally ran great, and as you say, Pelini, he was very versatile. Like a lot of great horses, he suffered a lot of physical ailments that limited him to 4 outs or less per year,, and of course, he was packed to his eyeballs with Epogen from Frankel.
 
Also, I love the #7 to finish in the top two in the 8th race at Aqueduct at 8-1 ML. Lightbulb went on.
Didn't watch the race, but it looks like your horse got a brutal trip. I count 5 different spots in the race that really hurt your horse.

Brushed, then bumped and taken in hand, bumped several more times and then taken up, and then finally 3-4 wide on the turn.

Very, very few horses are going to overcome those in a horse race unless he's just head and shoulders the best, and at 7/1 the public thought he was 4th best in the field.

Get 'em next race, Pelini!
 
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Didn't watch the race, but it looks like your horse got a brutal trip. I count 5 different spots in the race that really hurt your horse.

Brushed, then bumped and taken in hand, bumped several more times and then taken up, and then finally 3-4 wide on the turn.

Very, very few horses are going to overcome those in a horse race unless he's just head and shoulders the best, and at 7/1 the public thought he was 4th best in the field.

Get 'em next race, Pelini!
Even with that…I’m rarely a fan of the jock choking the horse back so damn much.

I still think the top 2 were likely the top 2, but it might be worth a bet back at a similar level, though the Withers usually brings in better animals.
 
Even with that…I’m rarely a fan of the jock choking the horse back so damn much.

I still think the top 2 were likely the top 2, but it might be worth a bet back at a similar level, though the Withers usually brings in better animals.
To be honest, other than the big days, I rarely play Handicap/Stakes races. Usually, there's a mutual hog or two in there that devalues the race. Those types are usually so good you just have to play them as the horse to beat, so you're usually guaranteeing a smaller return.

Of course, there will be exceptions, but generally, when the large purse money is on the line, those monsters show up. Many times in races like that, you'll play your horse as say, the 4th/5th betting choice and the horse RUNS HIS EYEBALLS OUT, but still gets beat by that superior animal.

I've always found the money will flow back to me by minimizing my competition at large odds. You can find horses that overmatch the field a lot of times in conditional claimers, starter allowance, optional claimers and especially in maiden races.

The majority of horseplayers never even read the race conditions, and sometimes it is as clear as day that a race was WRITTEN specifically for one horse. It gets back to my 4-leaf clover theory. If you're not looking for it, you won't ever see it.

Hang in there Pelini, sometimes you have the right horse and too much shit transpires within the running of the race that just gets your horse beat. It doesn't mean you didn't have the right horse, you just caught a lousy trip that day. We've all been there.
 
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To be honest, other than the big days, I rarely play Handicap/Stakes races. Usually, there's a mutual hog or two in there that devalues the race. Those types are usually so good you just have to play them as the horse to beat, so you're usually guaranteeing a smaller return.

Of course, there will be exceptions, but generally, when the large purse money is on the line, those monsters show up. Many times in races like that, you'll play your horse as say, the 4th/5th betting choice and the horse RUNS HIS EYEBALLS OUT, but still gets beat by that superior animal.

I've always found the money will flow back to me by minimizing my competition at large odds. You can find horses that overmatch the field a lot of times in conditional claimers, starter allowance, optional claimers and especially in maiden races.

The majority of horseplayers never even read the race conditions, and sometimes it is as clear as day that a race was WRITTEN specifically for one horse. It gets back to my 4-leaf clover theory. If you're not looking for it, you won't ever see it.

Hang in there Pelini, sometimes you have the right horse and too much shit transpires within the running of the race that just gets your horse beat. It doesn't mean you didn't have the right horse, you just caught a lousy trip that day. We've all been there.
123, I've been away for awhile and stepping in to ask about a couple horses, your thoughts, which I value. Who Dr Who" and Skunktail? Any short Jack Van Berg stories? Haha After this over I will sit a pad aside and go through the thread to gleam out some thoughts to applly to my meager trials at Fonner! Thanks DP
 
Interesting, would I just Google & read the outline of the Robert's technique Monty Robert's? 🤔 And please explain Dinglefritz your handle! I'm fascinated! DP is just my initials! Thanks
Dinglefritz was just a derogatory term we used as kids. Just a reminder that we shouldn’t take ourselves too seriously.
 
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Tracks are much different today, generally deeper. Back in the days of the Secretariat, they were running on asphalt-like conditions. They also ran their 2 and 3-year-olds a lot more than nowadays. Secretariat was beaten 5 times in 21 starts.
And they had a lot more 2 and young 3 year olds break down back then too. There are some pretty strong advocates for not racing a horse until they’re 3.
 
And they had a lot more 2 and young 3 year olds break down back then too. There are some pretty strong advocates for not racing a horse until they’re 3.
An additional year of growth would do the 2 year-olds a lot of good. Unfortunately, it would mean training, feeding, paying exercise riders, etc to get a horse ready that's not gonna run until Jan 1 of their 3-year-old season.

They could develop with nice, slow jogs around the track all the while letting their bodies get stronger to be ready to adapt to the rigors of actual training and racing.

The gal, Linda Davidson that dp talked about worked for her father Wayne. He had horses out west, put them out in a pasture, rode them in some of the sandy conditions, then took them for leisurely rides for their 2-year-year-old season, then ran them at 3 and they were almost ready to perform well as an unraced 3-year-old. He built a foundation under them.

Wayne had the right idea.

It's all about money.
 
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123, I've been away for awhile and stepping in to ask about a couple horses, your thoughts, which I value. Who Dr Who" and Skunktail? Any short Jack Van Berg stories? Haha After this over I will sit a pad aside and go through the thread to gleam out some thoughts to applly to my meager trials at Fonner! Thanks DP
dp, this will be LONG. Besides, it would take a couple of old-timers like you and me to be familiar with Van Berg and the two horses you name.

The red flag went up when you asked me for "short stories" about Van Berg. As most would attest, I don't do "short." LOL.

Marion Van Berg, Jack's dad was one of the original trainers in Nebraska that had his horse running assisted by things other than Hay, Oats, and Water.

I was never much of a fan of Skunktail. His tail was his calling card to his local fame, not his running talent.

My short list of the best Nebraska-bred sprinters that I've seen:
Who Doctor Who, Vale of Tears, Amadevil, Ogataul, Roman Zipper,

Who Doctor Who was bred out of the Nearco bloodline on the top side of his male genes. On the female side, he was a progeny of Hyperion and War Admiral. Mixed with a lineage of Count Fleet and Princequillo. There was plenty of reason why the Doctor was a talented horse despite very poor hooves.

At his best, he was the best Nebraska-bred sprinter ever, but not much better than Amadevil. Ogataul, Vale of Tears, and Roman Zipper were all great local horses. The thing that separate the top 3 was the amount of weight they were able to successfully carry and still win.

For quite a while I haven't spent much time on the Nebraska racing circuit.
So many tracks now to choose from and so many more wagering opportunities.

I think a handicapper can still do very well on the Nebraska circuit, but, like anything, it takes a lot of time and concentrated effort. In this day and age, it's hard for people to find that amount of time to really dig into it.

To try to do it the way I've done it requires 12-16 hours a day, and if a day were longer, more hours would come in handy. It really requires daily focus on the sport. In my opinion, my job will never really be finished. For every trainer I measure, there are 10 more I would love to be concentrating on.

As I sit here this evening at almost midnight, I have a stack of paper I researched and printed just from TODAY'S races around the country. It will take another hour or two tonight, and then all of tomorrow just to get it "kinda" ready to be entered into my computer.

Believe me, I really, really do love to do this work even though I've been retired for a decade. In my world, it's the little difference that makes the big difference. Napoleon Hill penned two things when I was a young man that gave me the inspiration to do things the right way. He said, "whatever the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve."

He also wrote a great book, "Think and Grow Rich." I never set about to try to get rich, I just wanted to be the best I could be. As with everything in life,
I incorporated the R2A2 formula. Recognize, Relate, Assimilate, Action. I've been able to do that in many aspects of my endeavors. I've tried to make it an all-encompassing part of my handicapping life.

Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays are the slower race days of the week, so by then, I will have completed Friday, today's, and Sunday's action. By Thursday next week, I will be raring to go again!

This has never been some passing fancy. Decades ago, I took a self-imposed challenge head-on, knowing that it was "considered" impossible to do. I used ingenuity, creativity, and good old-fashioned sweat equity to try to achieve something most would never take on.

I'm a dinosaur. It's a labor of love.

Over the course of years, many handicappers have tried to pick my brain about horses, and to be boastful here, as I am prone to do, they find out in a hurry I have a lot of depth to my overall understanding of this sport. I know I can be a pain in the ass, but nobody is gonna bullshit me when it comes to the sport of horseracing.
 
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dp, this will be LONG. Besides, it would take a couple of old-timers like you and me to be familiar with Van Berg and the two horses you name.

The red flag went up when you asked me for "short stories" about Van Berg. As most would attest, I don't do "short." LOL.

Marion Van Berg, Jack's dad was one of the original trainers in Nebraska that had his horse running assisted by things other than Hay, Oats, and Water.

I was never much of a fan of Skunktail. His tail was his calling card to his local fame, not his running talent.

My short list of the best Nebraska-bred sprinters that I've seen:
Who Doctor Who, Vale of Tears, Amadevil, Ogataul, Roman Zipper,

Who Doctor Who was bred out of the Nearco bloodline on the top side of his male genes. On the female side, he was a progeny of Hyperion and War Admiral. Mixed with a lineage of Count Fleet and Princequillo. There was plenty of reason why the Doctor was a talented horse despite very poor hooves.

At his best, he was the best Nebraska-bred sprinter ever, but not much better than Amadevil. Ogataul, Vale of Tears, and Roman Zipper were all great local horses. The thing that separate the top 3 was the amount of weight they were able to successfully carry and still win.

For quite a while I haven't spent much time on the Nebraska racing circuit.
So many tracks now to choose from and so many more wagering opportunities.

I think a handicapper can still do very well on the Nebraska circuit, but, like anything, it takes a lot of time and concentrated effort. In this day and age, it's hard for people to find that amount of time to really dig into it.

To try to do it the way I've done it requires 12-16 hours a day, and if a day were longer, more hours would come in handy. It really requires daily focus on the sport. In my opinion, my job will never really be finished. For every trainer I measure, there are 10 more I would love to be concentrating on.

As I sit here this evening at almost midnight, I have a stack of paper I researched and printed just from TODAY'S races around the country. It will take another hour or two tonight, and then all of tomorrow just to get it "kinda" ready to be entered into my computer.

Believe me, I really, really do love to do this work even though I've been retired for a decade. In my world, it's the little difference that makes the big difference. Napoleon Hill penned two things when I was a young man that gave me the inspiration to do things the right way. He said, "whatever the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve."

He also wrote a great book, "Think and Grow Rich." I never set about to try to get rich, I just wanted to be the best I could be. As with everything in life,
I incorporated the R2A2 formula. Recognize, Relate, Assimilate, Action. I've been able to do that in many aspects of my endeavors. I've tried to make it an all-encompassing part of my handicapping life.

Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays are the slower race days of the week, so by then, I will have completed Friday, today's, and Sunday's action. By Thursday next week, I will be raring to go again!

This has never been some passing fancy. Decades ago, I took a self-imposed challenge head-on, knowing that it was "considered" impossible to do. I used ingenuity, creativity, and good old-fashioned sweat equity to try to achieve something most would never take on.

I'm a dinosaur. It's a labor of love.

Over the course of years, many handicappers have tried to pick my brain about horses, and to be boastful here, as I am prone to do, they find out in a hurry I have a lot of depth to my overall understanding of this sport. I know I can be a pain in the ass, but nobody is gonna bullshit me when it comes to the sport of horseracing.
Yes, I see the depth & love you have for the sport! Quite thought out would be a under estimate of your work!, Yes, I understand you & your passion! Then again in I emulate what you do as I buy & sell stocks within the 100k limit portfolio! It's one of the side money's my wife & we have that I use! I started doing it when I retired with 2 neck fusion! Thats death to a meat manager & cutter! I only buy long, no shorting or options! I know my abilities and stay within what I know! I follow opinions of a group, & buy what I know! Yes, I've lost a ton of money learning! 💰 I keep a stock on hand of 40k stock worth 4 cents as a reminder! I bought higher! Ha! I learned! Cost money, Always take some profit! I can sit for a long time reading on the computer!, I can't do a simple algebra problem, as I'm just not wired in that, but I know how to do percentages and undera tand the value of compound interest as applied to money! Magnificent marvel to me!! It's made me a much better life than I would have without it! I talk to people alot, Sorry on no paragraphs, I'm working on my cell! NOW, in relation to bug boys or gals & the 5 lb 🤔 weight! Do you learn early who is 👍🏻 good and research them?? How do use it?? That it tonite 123!, I appreciate this!😃
 
Thanks, itseasyas1-2-3. I've enjoyed this OT thread. Brings back memories from years ago essentially growing up in the child area (the caged area) at Aksarben with my dad. I've always loved numbers and I spent many evenings perusing racing forms in anticipation of the next day's races. Thanks again, and best of luck.
 
An additional year of growth would do the 2 year-olds a lot of good. Unfortunately, it would mean training, feeding, paying exercise riders, etc to get a horse ready that's not gonna run until Jan 1 of their 3-year-old season.

They could develop with nice, slow jogs around the track all the while letting their bodies get stronger to be ready to adapt to the rigors of actual training and racing.

The gal, Linda Davidson that dp talked about worked for her father Wayne. He had horses out west, put them out in a pasture, rode them in some of the sandy conditions, then took them for leisurely rides for their 2-year-year-old season, then ran them at 3 and they were almost ready to perform well as an unraced 3-year-old. He built a foundation under them.

Wayne had the right idea.

It's all about money.
The biggest problem for 2 year olds is that they’re growing so rapidly that their tendons and ligaments aren’t strong enough. Ligaments don’t develop as quickly as the muscle. The best thing one could do for their long term soundness is to either train them very lightly or turn them out in a pasture and forget about them until they’re 3.

That doesn’t set you up for the early 3 year old races. My dad had me start some 20 month old geldings under saddle for a January sale one time. After learning some of the things I did I always kind of wondered how they turned out soundness wise.
 
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The biggest problem for 2 year olds is that they’re growing so rapidly that their tendons and ligaments aren’t strong enough. Ligaments don’t develop as quickly as the muscle. The best thing one could do for their long term soundness is to either train them very lightly or turn them out in a pasture and forget about them until they’re 3.

That doesn’t set you up for the early 3 year old races. My dad had me start some 20 month old geldings under saddle for a January sale one time. After learning some of the things I did I always kind of wondered how they turned out soundness wise.
That's interesting dingle. You do know horses through the hands-on approach. Did you break these young ones, or did you do the "smart" thing and have someone else do that for you?

Again, you are correct about their potential ligament and tendon damage. When a person is at the track and taking a close look at horses in the post-parade you can almost see the ones who are one out away from a bowed tendon.

In the last few years, the tracks are running 2-year-old Maiden Special Weight races for $ 100K on up in purse money. Then there is that lure, for the really good ones, to try the BC Juvenile Races for a $ 1 Million dollar purse for both turf and dirt at the end of the year. The only way to get there is through early racing, so a lot of potentially good ones are lost along the way.

If I ever did want to own horses, I surely would have had turf horses. That's the horse's natural surface and so much gentler on its body.
 
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That's interesting dingle. You do know horses through the hands-on approach. Did you break these young ones, or did you do the "smart" thing and have someone else do that for you?

Again, you are correct about their potential ligament and tendon damage. When a person is at the track and taking a close look at horses in the post-parade you can almost see the ones who are one out away from a bowed tendon.

In the last few years, the tracks are running 2-year-old Maiden Special Weight races for $ 100K on up in purse money. Then there is that lure, for the really good ones, to try the BC Juvenile Races for a $ 1 Million dollar purse for both turf and dirt at the end of the year. The only way to get there is through early racing, so a lot of potentially good ones are lost along the way.

If I ever did want to own horses, I surely would have had turf horses. That's the horse's natural surface and so much gentler on its body.
I was about 13. I saddled and messed with those colts for a few days then just mounted and sat on them for a day or two before I asked them to do anything. Then it was a couple of days of walk and trot. I think I maybe put 30 days on them with no more than a couple of minutes of a gallop on any day. I kept it very short. I don’t remember any of them bucking. That was over 50 years ago….🥴
 
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Thanks, itseasyas1-2-3. I've enjoyed this OT thread. Brings back memories from years ago essentially growing up in the child area (the caged area) at Aksarben with my dad. I've always loved numbers and I spent many evenings perusing racing forms in anticipation of the next day's races. Thanks again, and best of luck.
Yes, AkSarBen was a really cool facility.

My wife and I loved to go down there for the Beef State Handicap, the Cornhusker, the Speed Handicap, the Gold Cup, and most of the big ones.

A couple of times, when it was really hot we'd cool off in the Forum?/Coliseum area indoors. The place had a good amount of seating and a huge ole big screen that always had a low-grade quality view.

While wagering at Ak, I had probably my biggest day ever at Ak on Memorial Day 1981 though. I had the actual program till about 2 years ago when I finally got rid of some stuff. On the cover of the program I simply wrote, "My Day."

I just had "one of those days" where I just had luck in my pocket. I missed the first race, then rattled off 8 straight wins on the rest of the program. There were 3 $ 40.00 winners that I liked that all won.

In one race, a horse called Courierre Temeraire was up against a really tough chalk and I knew it would take some good fortune to beat that horse. What happens? The gate opens and that heavy chalk goes to his knees, leaving my horse alone on the lead and a pretty easy win.

The rest of that day, it just seemed like any amount of luck I might have needed, I just seemed to find it. In those days, there were just Exactas, and I'm not sure if Trifectas had even arrived yet. I know I was fortunate to have a lot of Exactas. But, I've learned not to ever rely on luck at the racetrack. I hope to avoid bad luck, but I don't count on having good luck as part of my game.

I remember going down to watch the Speed Handicap in those days. I was excited to watch Dave's Friend, a kind of East Coast shipper and the very first pure sprinter in the industry to ever make $ 1 Million just sprinting. He might have been in with Ogataul, Smokite, Braze and Bold, and that bunch.

To see Dave's Friend up close he was nothing special physically, yet this was a horse that was winning 6f and 7f sprint races packing 128#, 130#'s, so he had a lot of strength and endurance. I "think" he ran 3rd that day but would certainly not wager on my recall is correct.

Thanks for the comment Hipp.
 
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I was about 13. I saddled and messed with those colts for a few days then just mounted and sat on them for a day or two before I asked them to do anything. Then it was a couple of days of walk and trot. I think I maybe put 30 days on them with no more than a couple of minutes of a gallop on any day. I kept it very short. I don’t remember any of them bucking. That was over 50 years ago….🥴
Wow. So you took the really slow approach and got a helluva nice result. I've seen some young ones that once you put that saddle on them got nuttier than those two horses you and I posted about earlier in this thread.

I know in the horseracing business, it seems like all the jockeys just rave about how professional Steve Asmussen's 2 years old when they get to the track. Those jockeys love to ride his 2-year-olds because they are well-trained, usually nicely bred, and even though Asmussen doesn't try that hard to win with his 2-year-olds, a jockey who gets on one of his really good ones just might wind up with a Kentucky Derby mount the next year.
 
That's interesting dingle. You do know horses through the hands-on approach. Did you break these young ones, or did you do the "smart" thing and have someone else do that for you?

Again, you are correct about their potential ligament and tendon damage. When a person is at the track and taking a close look at horses in the post-parade you can almost see the ones who are one out away from a bowed tendon.

In the last few years, the tracks are running 2-year-old Maiden Special Weight races for $ 100K on up in purse money. Then there is that lure, for the really good ones, to try the BC Juvenile Races for a $ 1 Million dollar purse for both turf and dirt at the end of the year. The only way to get there is through early racing, so a lot of potentially good ones are lost along the way.

If I ever did want to own horses, I surely would have had turf horses. That's the horse's natural surface and so much gentler on its body.
As an addition to this post, I ** edited** it to include the following for those that like to wager on turf races. Turf horses will tend to run in a much tighter pattern from race to race than regular dirt horses. In other words, they tend to bounce much less frequently.

As an example, you will many times see dirt horses run numbers something like this, and I'm using a hypothetical here:

72, 74, 58, 62, 73, 70. In other words, except for high-quality horses, you find them being really in and out in terms of racetrack performance. Whereas the turf horses, and of course, there are a lot of different examples but might run something closer to:

72, 74, 74, 73, 75, 72. The very good turf trainers like Mandella, Brown, and Clement seem to have horses that once their ability is established, don't tend to vary that much from race to race.

It's a testament to the fact that running on grass is a natural surface for a horse with much less pounding on joints and typically a better recovery after a horse race. Of course, there will always be exceptions.

Typically when those turf horses throw a low number which varies from their norm, it's the result of the bad placement of the animal nearing the stretch causing the horse to go 7-8-9 wide at the head of the stretch and lose a ton of ground. Rather than from a conditioning/effort point of view it is more likely trip related.
 
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