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I agree with your request to have kids vaccinated. Can't beleive this is an issue. I did read a report that its not all hippies though. The report talked about how its not low-income either (medicare takes care of those).Originally posted by mothmonsterman:
While there are some anti-government people who don't like vaccines, the large majority of anti-vaxxers don't have a problem with the government, they're more opposed to the "the evuhhl corporashunzzzzz!!!1!!!!!1!!ELEVEN!!!" I am an anarchist, so no one hates and distrusts the government more than I do, but you'd better believe that my son will get his shots on the regular schedule. As for the OP's question, please for the love of all that's good, get your kids vaccinated. It's safer for your child, it's safer for my child and it's safer for everyone else's child. Anti-vaxxers are smelly hippies for the most part, don't be a smelly hippy.Originally posted by goody1986:
There is literally no reputable research that establishes that vaccines are harmful. Zero. Don't get swindled by folks in tin hats worried about government intrusion into, you know, the health of the public. The discussion is purely political and does not exist among actual scientists. You are a fool to not vaccinate your children for the harm it may cause to them and others.
Tarheel, as a father, a person with a degree in the study and care of human beings & practice reading studies, and somebody who grew up in a medical family, let me promise you one thing:Originally posted by TarheelHuskerFan:
I've heard so many bad things on both sides and have no idea what to do. What are your opinions? What experience have you guys had with this?
Thanks
If you have a strong immune system you should get it. You're only helping it get better.Originally posted by Harry Caray:
I believe in getting the major vaccinations, but not the flu shot. There's a big difference. The flu shot is developed based on an educated guess about which strains they think will be most common. If you have a naturally strong immune system, you probably don't need it. Ironically, the only times I've gotten a bad case of the flu were the years I had to get a flu shot. Haven't had the flu since I stopped getting the shot.Originally posted by BetterRed:
I've had discussions with people who don't believe in flu shots, for instance. They don't believe in them, either. They're the same people who feel vaccinations are the result of such things as creating autism and other bad side affects in people.
Originally posted by Tyante:
You are missing the lines before those. Vaccines prevent deadly or crippling illnesses with no links between blah blah blah.
Some people made up a link between vaccines and other problems that don't exist,
>>>Perhaps some do. And then there are those who were fine before being vaccinated and got sick afterwards. Defenders of medical conglomerate won't tolerate their vaccine being implicated. They protect it with any means possible.
then people like Jenny McCarthy find evidence of these made up links and profess them as facts to the public. Since she's famous, people listen to her.
>>>Some people may blindly follow famous people. I don't. However, I'll concede that many do. I do my own "research" and trust the feedback my body is giving me. "made up links"? R U referring to internet links? And you know they are made up how? If someone posts their situation on the internet, and it just happens to put the medical community in a bad light, does that mean it was made up? But those who view these doctors as gods, have to besmirch that person, I get it! Show me one "made up link"/illness caused by a drug/vaccine, and I'll show you another where doctors & scientists have falsified data for personal gain. Not sure why JM is highlighted here. There are many others.
Ignorance is not a good reason to keep your children from getting vaccines.
>>>Ah, there we go! Arguments are weak, so we resort to calling those who don't hold our view, ignorant, or other derogatory names. Typical debate tactic. Attack the person because we can't compete in the marketplace of ideas.
Anyone can post to the internet. This board is the perfect example of how you don't have to know sh** about a subject to put your opinion online. If I had a dollar for every STUPID football idea I've seen on here, I wouldn't need a job.Originally posted by meo1960:
Originally posted by Tyante:
You are missing the lines before those. Vaccines prevent deadly or crippling illnesses with no links between blah blah blah.
Some people made up a link between vaccines and other problems that don't exist,
>>>Perhaps some do. And then there are those who were fine before being vaccinated and got sick afterwards. Defenders of medical conglomerate won't tolerate their vaccine being implicated. They protect it with any means possible.
then people like Jenny McCarthy find evidence of these made up links and profess them as facts to the public. Since she's famous, people listen to her.
>>>Some people may blindly follow famous people. I don't. However, I'll concede that many do. I do my own "research" and trust the feedback my body is giving me. "made up links"? R U referring to internet links? And you know they are made up how? If someone posts their situation on the internet, and it just happens to put the medical community in a bad light, does that mean it was made up? But those who view these doctors as gods, have to besmirch that person, I get it! Show me one "made up link"/illness caused by a drug/vaccine, and I'll show you another where doctors & scientists have falsified data for personal gain. Not sure why JM is highlighted here. There are many others.
Ignorance is not a good reason to keep your children from getting vaccines.
>>>Ah, there we go! Arguments are weak, so we resort to calling those who don't hold our view, ignorant, or other derogatory names. Typical debate tactic. Attack the person because we can't compete in the marketplace of ideas.
This post was edited on 3/16 11:23 AM by meo1960
This. I think there is a generation, still living, who has first-hand knowledge of a time when everyone knew someone who contracted something like polio.Originally posted by schuele:
I feel blessed to live in an era where the odds of dying from or being disabled by a terrible epidemic are very remote. But that didn't happen by accident, and it shouldn't be undone by people who don't know what the #*&@ they are talking about.
There is definitely still more out there for medicine. In another 50 years, we'll be amazed at some of the things we used to deal with today.Originally posted by meo1960:
The world needs doctors. There have been great advances in the treatment of disease. The brains of those who can actually learn & retain everything required to become a physician are the envy of the rest of us. Thank You to all those who entered the field to actually try to help others. FWIW, my wife is a Nurse Practitioner so I have the tiniest idea of all the material she's had to digest.
My argument, not yet stated, is that they are looking in the wrong place. I believe disease is a symptom of the body not being able to perform its designed function properly. Shouldn't we be putting more emphasis on preventing disease in the first place? And naturally, even if we are doing all things properly, to the best of our ability and income, we can still succomb to illness. But I believe we bring many diseases upon ourselves because we mismanage ourselves by not providing proper nourishment, taking in toxins, not avoiding others, jumping out of perfectly good airplanes(attempt at light-hearted humor), etc...
I would like to see more research dollars spent on the input side of the equation. (Foods, Food Additives, Toxins, Water, etc., and their affects on the body).
As a doctor, do you believe foods play any part in disease? How about sleep? Does quality of sleep play an affect? Do foods perhaps play a part in quality of sleep? Water Quality? Fluoride & Chlorine in water? How about EMF radiation? Are there any people sensitive to Electro-Magnetic radiation? What symptoms would each of these have? Not only do many doctors ignore the input side of the equation, they are active in trying to disallow any alternatives to their treatments. Fortunately for them, and most unfortunate for me, a case like mine, and others who suffer similar symptoms, is not the norm.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stop reading here if you could care less about my Medical Nightmare.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Symptoms at the time:
Random nose bleeds. Roaming Joint pain. Chronically inflamed airway(subglottic stenosis), Cartilage deformation after days
of swelling, Depression & Irritability(Severe!), Heavy phlegm in airway & lungs, High Blood Pressure, Low Thyroid function,
Tired for 3 or 4 hours after waking(going back to my teenage years), developed toenail fungus(still have). Severe brain fog,
deteriorating memory(I had to
memorize my way through engineering school).
If I had followed the advice of any of the 15, or so, doctors I had gone to see, eventually leading to a trip to Mayo Clinic(whom I considered at that time to house the best physicians in the world), I would be long dead. I was given 2 years to live with a chronically inflamed airway. Was down to 4.5mm(25=normal) in 1991 at the time of being Trach'd. All tests negative. They couldn't find anything, however for insurance purposes, and also, so I wouldn't be bankrupted, they decided that the closest thing to what I had was a very rare disease called Wegener's Granulomatosis. An auto-immune disease with no known cause and no known cure. Everyone was dying from this. Needless to say, rents were crushed and I was motivated to find an answer.
Found a local Doctor right by me who used to teach at Mayo. Dr. Moisan. He was the first doctor who put a scope down my airway, took a picture and sent that pic, along with a "nice" letter to the physician I saw at Mayo and told him "I don't think this is in his head". Mayo was the WORST experience out of all the doctors I had seen, given I had such high hopes. Dr. Moisen, then told me I had a case for Malpractice against the Mayo Doctor. And it was Dr. Moisen who told me that I was the most stubborn patient he had ever had, a badge I wear with Honor! I only later learned that subsequent studies showed that patients who take an active role in their treatment have the best outcomes.
So, out of hope with the medical community, I began my health adventure. Even a blind squirrel(that would be me in this analogy), finds a nut every now & then. I stumbled upon the fact that when I eliminated sugar from my diet, my symptoms diminished. Not eliminated, but enough to keep any further cartilage deformation from happening. And like clockwork, when I would eat sugar, back they came, with a vengeance. And the craziest thing happened. On a subsequent follow up to the physician who gave me the 2 year window declared, well, I guess our diagnosis was wrong? Imagine that. Now naturally, from the doctors perspective, the fact that I had stopped eating sugar had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. I had succeeded in living past their deadline. Crazy huh?
I've never smoked but sugar addictions are NO FUN either. Now, 23 years later, I have discovered what I believe to be the main culprit(s). Seems I have been living most of my life with a Gluten Intolerance. Since eliminating this from my diet 23 days ago, I have felt fantastic. Respiratory system all clear. I Have lost 10 lbs, so far, without trying. I'm now also testing affects of EMF on my sleep. I've been waking with a loud ringing in my head for years. Doctors would call this tinnitus. I call it being able to hear high frequency transmissions. (Maybe I'm part Shih-Tzu or something). Last night, when I was awoken, I put a mylar blanket($3 bucks from Walmart) over my head and ringing stopped. So things look encouraging on that front. If EMF is messing with my REM sleep, that would seem to explain my Depression, Irritability, high BP and who knows what else.
Thats my story and my stubborn little self is continuing on my personal health journey. Blessings to all.
Change "medicine" to "women" and you nailed it!Originally posted by meo1960:
Medicine has the be the largest, most difficult puzzle ever.
I love puzzles!
I'm not talking about made up internet links. I'm talking about people making up links between vaccines and having other medical issues, ie ignorance. The facts are vaccines have all but eradicated many nasty viruses as other people have pointed out in this thread.Originally posted by meo1960:
Originally posted by Tyante:
You are missing the lines before those. Vaccines prevent deadly or crippling illnesses with no links between blah blah blah.
Some people made up a link between vaccines and other problems that don't exist,
>>>Perhaps some do. And then there are those who were fine before being vaccinated and got sick afterwards. Defenders of medical conglomerate won't tolerate their vaccine being implicated. They protect it with any means possible.
then people like Jenny McCarthy find evidence of these made up links and profess them as facts to the public. Since she's famous, people listen to her.
>>>Some people may blindly follow famous people. I don't. However, I'll concede that many do. I do my own "research" and trust the feedback my body is giving me. "made up links"? R U referring to internet links? And you know they are made up how? If someone posts their situation on the internet, and it just happens to put the medical community in a bad light, does that mean it was made up? But those who view these doctors as gods, have to besmirch that person, I get it! Show me one "made up link"/illness caused by a drug/vaccine, and I'll show you another where doctors & scientists have falsified data for personal gain. Not sure why JM is highlighted here. There are many others.
Ignorance is not a good reason to keep your children from getting vaccines.
>>>Ah, there we go! Arguments are weak, so we resort to calling those who don't hold our view, ignorant, or other derogatory names. Typical debate tactic. Attack the person because we can't compete in the marketplace of ideas.
This post was edited on 3/16 11:23 AM by meo1960
THERE ARE 50 MILLION Illegal Immigrants that cross the border that never seen a doctor or hospital in their lives, they have all types of diseases, they work in the kitchens of our restaurants. GET THE VACCINES!Originally posted by TarheelHuskerFan:
I've heard so many bad things on both sides and have no idea what to do. What are your opinions? What experience have you guys had with this?
Thanks
The most convincing link of anything to autism is genetics. People with kids with autism spectrum children want to find any reason they can to explain their child's problem. Blaming themselves for their own crappy genes just doesn't make them feel better. There has been no proven link between vaccinations and autism spectrum disorders. As with anything we take, there can be unfortunate reactions to medicines, vaccines or other environmental factors. The risk to an individual from vaccination is minute compared to the risk to the general population posed by unvaccinated individuals. IF your kid is the one that has the one in a million vaccination reaction, it iS a big deal. But IF we don't use vacccination the risk is huge to the general population. IMO, anybody that doesn't vaccinate their kid is a fool unless there is a proven medical reason for not doing it. Its too bad that there is not vaccine for stupidity.Originally posted by Tyante:
I'm not talking about made up internet links. I'm talking about people making up links between vaccines and having other medical issues, ie ignorance. The facts are vaccines have all but eradicated many nasty viruses as other people have pointed out in this thread.Originally posted by meo1960:
Originally posted by Tyante:
You are missing the lines before those. Vaccines prevent deadly or crippling illnesses with no links between blah blah blah.
Some people made up a link between vaccines and other problems that don't exist,
>>>Perhaps some do. And then there are those who were fine before being vaccinated and got sick afterwards. Defenders of medical conglomerate won't tolerate their vaccine being implicated. They protect it with any means possible.
then people like Jenny McCarthy find evidence of these made up links and profess them as facts to the public. Since she's famous, people listen to her.
>>>Some people may blindly follow famous people. I don't. However, I'll concede that many do. I do my own "research" and trust the feedback my body is giving me. "made up links"? R U referring to internet links? And you know they are made up how? If someone posts their situation on the internet, and it just happens to put the medical community in a bad light, does that mean it was made up? But those who view these doctors as gods, have to besmirch that person, I get it! Show me one "made up link"/illness caused by a drug/vaccine, and I'll show you another where doctors & scientists have falsified data for personal gain. Not sure why JM is highlighted here. There are many others.
Ignorance is not a good reason to keep your children from getting vaccines.
>>>Ah, there we go! Arguments are weak, so we resort to calling those who don't hold our view, ignorant, or other derogatory names. Typical debate tactic. Attack the person because we can't compete in the marketplace of ideas.
This post was edited on 3/16 11:23 AM by meo1960
One reason I pointed out JM is she has been on talk shows giving people false information saying she got a degree from google to support her claims.
I'm not arguing doctors are infallible. That is also not the point of this thread. This thread is about vaccines. Show any proof that vaccines are bad for people. There is a lot of proof that they do as claimed.
Oops, you've spilled some stupid on the thread! Let me clean it up for you:Originally posted by WestCoastCornhusker:
THERE ARE 50 MILLION Illegal Immigrants that cross the border that never seen a doctor or hospital in their lives, they have all types of diseases, they work in the kitchens of our restaurants. GET THE VACCINES!Originally posted by TarheelHuskerFan:
I've heard so many bad things on both sides and have no idea what to do. What are your opinions? What experience have you guys had with this?
Thanks
And then there's the fact that even based on the higher estimates of the number of people in the country illegally, 50 million is off by about 300 percent - EVEN WHEN YOU PUT IT IN CAPITAL LETTERS!Originally posted by TheBeav815:
Oops, you've spilled some stupid on the thread! Let me clean it up for you:THERE ARE 50 MILLION Illegal Immigrants that cross the border that never seen a doctor or hospital in their lives, they have all types of diseases, they work in the kitchens of our restaurants. GET THE VACCINES!
Many Latin American countries have better vaccination rates than we do. The rest are comparable. But by all means, feel free to post the zero evidence you'll find to support this vaguely racist reason to be pro-vaccine.
What's a few hundred percent between friends?Originally posted by schuele:
And then there's the fact that even based on the higher estimates of the number of people in the country illegally, 50 million is off by about 300 percent - EVEN WHEN YOU PUT IT IN CAPITAL LETTERS!Originally posted by TheBeav815:
Oops, you've spilled some stupid on the thread! Let me clean it up for you:THERE ARE 50 MILLION Illegal Immigrants that cross the border that never seen a doctor or hospital in their lives, they have all types of diseases, they work in the kitchens of our restaurants. GET THE VACCINES!
Many Latin American countries have better vaccination rates than we do. The rest are comparable. But by all means, feel free to post the zero evidence you'll find to support this vaguely racist reason to be pro-vaccine.
I would sincerely like to see the U.S. do more to tighten its borders, and I would like to see everyone get their kids vaccinated. But fighting hysteria with hysteria is not likely to produce those results.
This post was edited on 3/17 10:06 AM by schuele
No, it's not. It's a public health decision. It's also very likely a decision on whether your child will be allowed to attend most schools or daycares.Originally posted by Blackshirt30:
It's personal decision you and your family need to research and decide on your own. Everybody's opinion here on both sides of the debate don't mean squat.
AmenOriginally posted by schuele:
Personally I am glad that some of the smartest people in the world dedicate their lives to protecting public health. It's baffling to me how some people take their hatred for politicians and other things governmental, and use that to make a case against vaccinations. I'll bet my aunt who contracted polio as a child, and spent the rest of her life in a wheelchair, wishes she could have been so oppressed by the government that she had been vaccinated..
I feel blessed to live in an era where the odds of dying from or being disabled by a terrible epidemic are very remote. But that didn't happen by accident, and it shouldn't be undone by people who don't know what the #*&@ they are talking about.
Exactly. Telling the average person to go and do their own research is like handing some kid a .22 and telling him he's in the Army. It takes proper training in math and in research methods to be able to separate what is legitimate science and what is not.Originally posted by siegsker:
Amen, Beav. You are doing great work in this thread. Thanks
Also, if you don't have the degree to back it up, I guess I could care less about "doing your own research." I mean, I could. If I tried really, really hard.
When your kid gets a preventable illness like the measles, you'll wonder why you ever gave a crap about Jenny McCarthy's opinion.Originally posted by TarheelHuskerFan:
I've heard so many bad things on both sides and have no idea what to do. What are your opinions? What experience have you guys had with this?
Thanks
Saw first hand a 6 month old baby die of pneumoccocal meningitis that he picked up from his 4 year old brother that wasn't vaccinated. Horrific.Originally posted by Clevinger:
When your kid gets a preventable illness like the measles, you'll wonder why you ever gave a crap about Jenny McCarthy's opinion.Originally posted by TarheelHuskerFan:
I've heard so many bad things on both sides and have no idea what to do. What are your opinions? What experience have you guys had with this?
Thanks
Get the vaccinations.
The link to autism was debunked, with the so-called researcher having his article withdrawn.
Originally posted by meo1960:
Originally posted by Tyante:
You are missing the lines before those. Vaccines prevent deadly or crippling illnesses with no links between blah blah blah.
Some people made up a link between vaccines and other problems that don't exist,
>>>Perhaps some do. And then there are those who were fine before being vaccinated and got sick afterwards. Defenders of medical conglomerate won't tolerate their vaccine being implicated. They protect it with any means possible.
then people like Jenny McCarthy find evidence of these made up links and profess them as facts to the public. Since she's famous, people listen to her.
>>>Some people may blindly follow famous people. I don't. However, I'll concede that many do. I do my own "research" and trust the feedback my body is giving me. "made up links"? R U referring to internet links? And you know they are made up how? If someone posts their situation on the internet, and it just happens to put the medical community in a bad light, does that mean it was made up? But those who view these doctors as gods, have to besmirch that person, I get it! Show me one "made up link"/illness caused by a drug/vaccine, and I'll show you another where doctors & scientists have falsified data for personal gain. Not sure why JM is highlighted here. There are many others.
Ignorance is not a good reason to keep your children from getting vaccines.
>>>Ah, there we go! Arguments are weak, so we resort to calling those who don't hold our view, ignorant, or other derogatory names. Typical debate tactic. Attack the person because we can't compete in the marketplace of ideas.
This post was edited on 3/16 11:23 AM by meo1960
Yes. But at least there have been a surprisingly low number of fruit loops in the thread so far.Originally posted by Archie Graham:
Google 'lanthanides in vaccines' and you'll waste hours on the Internet.
Good grief this thread is depressing.