Teachers behaving badly

[mwulf]

I actually quit my union in LA. They would rather spend union dues on low income housing in Portland and other social justice causes and they made us wear masks in class waaaaaaaay too long. I went back out to LA last year around this time and visited my old school and kids were still wearing masks. The damage forced masking did on those kids was sad. It wasn't about germs it was about lack of confidence to show their face. Even in outdoor PE

 

[Huskers123456]

I think everyone realized that under the best of circumstances 95%+ of people in this country aren't cut out to be teaching beyond a few questions a night. I know I'm not. Throw in people trying to remote work and it was a disaster. I can't keep my elementary kids on track during a remote day when I have the day off, let alone when I trying to work. Damn that was stressful.

 

[BTF69]

I think everyone realized that under the best of circumstances 95%+ of people in this country aren't cut out to be teaching beyond a few questions a night. I know I'm not. Throw in people trying to remote work and it was a disaster. I can't keep my elementary kids on track during a remote day when I have the day off, let alone when I trying to work. Damn that was stressful.

It was INSANE.

That is why I have said, that timeline I gave explains it all, from Hero to lazy lefty losers. In March, we were amazing humans. Not so much in August.

I get too, I really do, it makes sense. Especially if your kids were little.

 

[Huskers123456]

It was INSANE.

That is why I have said, that timeline I gave explains it all, from Hero to lazy lefty losers. In March, we were amazing humans. Not so much in August.

I get too, I really do, it makes sense. Especially if your kids were little.

I still think you're heroes. I know I couldn't do it. Some jobs I straight up couldn't do. If I taught, I would for sure be in jail for choking some bratty kid out. Same for cops. Couldn't do it. Would be beating people left and right. Tasing people.

 

[BTF69]

I still think you're heroes. I know I couldn't do it. Some jobs I straight up couldn't do. If I taught, I would for sure be in jail for choking some bratty kid out. Same for cops. Couldn't do it. Would be beating people left and right. Tasing people.

I could not be a cop either. I would be terrified to pull over people.

 

[HuskerO]

I teach in a self contained behavior classroom. I only have 8 kids in my class. Even with only 8 kids, guess who has the lowest percentage of absent students every day, week, month, grading period, semester and year. My kids will come in sniffling and sneezing, body aches, flu like symptoms, but they never have a fever because their parents load them up on a rotating cocktail of Tylenol, Motrin or Advil. But I can promise you the parents aren't doing that to make sure they are getting in person learning.

Do you think, during Covid, parents got frustrated with teachers who didn't want to teach in-person because those parents just got too annoyed with their little Susie & Johnny being around them?

 

[Huskers123456]

Do you think, during Covid, parents got frustrated with teachers who didn't want to teach in-person because those parents just got too annoyed with their little Susie & Johnny being around them?

Combination of things but for myself, it's impossible to work and have school-aged kids at home while learning. Summer? No problem. My kids are self-sufficient. They can play outside or do whatever. But keeping them on task for school while working? Not a chance.

 

[HuskerO]

Just answer this honestly, please

Have you EVER once been annoying with your kid(s) while they were at home?

You have this uncanny ability to make 2 different situations seem like they're the exact same.

Even if I got annoyed with my kiddos in the summer of 2020, me wanting them to go to school in-person in the fall of 2020 and beyond isn't the same as me being annoyed with them because I had to tell them 6 times to clean their room.

So of course kids annoy their parents, I never denied that. But that's not the reason why they actually wanted them to go to school during Covid.

 

[HuskerO]

Combination of things but for myself, it's impossible to work and have school-aged kids at home while learning. Summer? No problem. My kids are self-sufficient. They can play outside or do whatever. But keeping them on task for school while working? Not a chance.

That too. So your main reason for wanting them to go back to school wasn't because they annoyed you too often, correct?

 

[Huskers123456]

That too. So your main reason for wanting them to go back to school wasn't because they annoyed you too often, correct?

Correct.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Do you think, during Covid, parents got frustrated with teachers who didn't want to teach in-person because those parents just got too annoyed with their little Susie & Johnny being around them?

You realize teachers, themselves, had very little to do with the decisions to teach in person or not.

What happened is that you had different sets of rules at that time. Some businesses reopened and some even made their employees report to work. Then you had some states where the teacher's unions and the state education agencies were still fighting to keep distance learning. So there was a conflict with people who were required to report to work and no place to put there kids.

But you can't tell me that parents weren't annoyed at dealing with and teaching their own children, even those that weren't working. That isn't what they signed up for. IF they wanted to teach their kids, they would have home schooled.

 

[HuskerO]

You realize teachers, themselves, had very little to do with the decisions to teach in person or not.

What happened is that you had different sets of rules at that time. Some businesses reopened and some even made their employees report to work. Then you had some states where the teacher's unions and the state education agencies were still fighting to keep distance learning. So there was a conflict with people who were required to report to work and no place to put there kids.

But you can't tell me that parents weren't annoyed at dealing with and teaching their own children, even those that weren't working. That isn't what they signed up for. IF they wanted to teach their kids, they would have home schooled.

Which is why I specifically said "teachers who didn't want to teach in-person".

You last paragraph is not the same as what @BTF69 is saying as to  why teachers became the villians.

*His claim is that parents started to blame the teachers becauae those same parents just got too annoyed with their kids being around them.*

Those parents realized they hated being at home all day with their kids, not because they don't love their kids but because it is ****ing annoying to be with them 24/7.

So what did they do? They attacked teachers. Now teachers were just being "lazy" because they did not want to have kids in person. Teachers were making it "political" because they did not want to have kids in person.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Which is why I specifically said "teachers who didn't want to teach in-person".

You last paragraph is not the same as what @BTF69 is saying as to  why teachers became the villians.

*His claim is that parents started to blame the teachers becauae those same parents just got too annoyed with their kids being around them.*

It is the same, parents were done dealing with their kids because they were around all the time. You can attempt to be "parent of the year" and pretend that you were ONLY concerned about the education but any normal person doesn't want to have their kids with them 24/7 365, especially if they are trying to work their own job from home.

Again, as far as teachers who didn't want to teach in person. They had no choice. If the schools opened for in person, they either went to work or they lost their jobs, at least here in Texas. If the schools stayed distance learning, then the teachers taught the students from their home. Teachers complaining about having to go to the classroom is one thing. Teachers complain about a lot of things, but they still come in and do their jobs, or they change career fields.

If I wanted to overgeneralize this, it was liberal teachers complaining and liberal cities and states that were fighting the return to in person classes.

 

[HuskerO]

It is the same, parents were done dealing with their kids because they were around all the time. You can attempt to be "parent of the year" and pretend that you were ONLY concerned about the education but any normal person doesn't want to have their kids with them 24/7 365, especially if they are trying to work their own job from home.

Again, as far as teachers who didn't want to teach in person. They had no choice. If the schools opened for in person, they either went to work or they lost their jobs, at least here in Texas. If the schools stayed distance learning, then the teachers taught the students from their home. Teachers complaining about having to go to the classroom is one thing. Teachers complain about a lot of things, but they still come in and do their jobs, or they change career fields.

If I wanted to overgeneralize this, it was liberal teachers complaining and liberal cities and states that were fighting the return to in person classes.

Haha, no it's not. The education concern doesn't have to be the ONLY concern for it to be the most important concern. And the most important concern by a mile.

We were seeing the negative learning affects of kids not having in-person school. Don't you think that was the driving force more so than "Get this kid away from me, they're annoying me." ???

You keep bringing up the teachers who wanted to teach in-person, but weren't allowed to. No one was getting upset at those teachers so they're not part of this discussion.

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

It is the same, parents were done dealing with their kids because they were around all the time. You can attempt to be "parent of the year" and pretend that you were ONLY concerned about the education but any normal person doesn't want to have their kids with them 24/7 365, especially if they are trying to work their own job from home.

Again, as far as teachers who didn't want to teach in person. They had no choice. If the schools opened for in person, they either went to work or they lost their jobs, at least here in Texas. If the schools stayed distance learning, then the teachers taught the students from their home. Teachers complaining about having to go to the classroom is one thing. Teachers complain about a lot of things, but they still come in and do their jobs, or they change career fields.

If I wanted to overgeneralize this, it was liberal teachers complaining and liberal cities and states that were fighting the return to in person classes.

Good post for the most part but I’ll disagree with the last part.

We were a district that brought everyone back in the fall of 2020.

Plenty of teachers, myself included, lines of thinking were “So we’re gonna bring everyone back, but you’re still going to make me teach AND coach in this mask all day?! Pick a horse already!”

 

[RBigredMax]

It was INSANE.

That is why I have said, that timeline I gave explains it all, from Hero to lazy lefty losers. In March, we were amazing humans. Not so much in August.

I get too, I really do, it makes sense. Especially if your kids were little.

Honestly - you are probably still bitter about losing your hero status with the ladies. You were probably pulling 7’s during the peak hero time. Now you are back to your 4’s hoping for anything to reinvigorate the public perception. 😁

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Good post for the most part but I’ll disagree with the last part.

We were a district that brought everyone back in the fall of 2020.

Plenty of teachers, myself included, lines of thinking were “So we’re gonna bring everyone back, but you’re still going to make me teach AND coach in this mask all day?! Pick a horse already!”

Correct, complaining but still doing your job.

 

[PeliniTheCrutch]

Correct, complaining but still doing your job.

Hell, I still complain about those days. That sh!t was miserable!

 

[redwine65]

I don't post on political topics, because I feel it's a football board
I hope that is ok

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Hell, I still complain about those days. That sh!t was miserable!

I agree, gross kids chewing on their masks from the inside, dropping spittle and drool on their desks. Consuming their own Corona Virus mucus

 

[BTF69]

It is the same, parents were done dealing with their kids because they were around all the time. You can attempt to be "parent of the year" and pretend that you were ONLY concerned about the education but any normal person doesn't want to have their kids with them 24/7 365, especially if they are trying to work their own job from home.

Again, as far as teachers who didn't want to teach in person. They had no choice. If the schools opened for in person, they either went to work or they lost their jobs, at least here in Texas. If the schools stayed distance learning, then the teachers taught the students from their home. Teachers complaining about having to go to the classroom is one thing. Teachers complain about a lot of things, but they still come in and do their jobs, or they change career fields.

If I wanted to overgeneralize this, it was liberal teachers complaining and liberal cities and states that were fighting the return to in person classes.

Thank you good sir!

It is so odd that parents would try to pretend they want to be with their kids 24/7, if they did, everyone would home school!

Just like once summer hits, parents sign their kids up for a billion camps and activities. To get them out of the house. They don't actually think their kid will become a Karate Master...they just want them out.

I have never had one parent say something like "Wow, that summer went so fast, I wish it was longer so that I could have been at home with my triplets a few more days!"

 

[BTF69]

Honestly - you are probably still bitter about losing your hero status with the ladies. You were probably pulling 7’s during the peak hero time. Now you are back to your 4’s hoping for anything to reinvigorate the public perception. 😁

I mean, I need all the help I can get!!!

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Haha, no it's not. The education concern doesn't have to be the ONLY concern for it to be the most important concern. And the most important concern by a mile.

We were seeing the negative learning affects of kids not having in-person school. Don't you think that was the driving force more so than "Get this kid away from me, they're annoying me." ???

You keep bringing up the teachers who wanted to teach in-person, but weren't allowed to. No one was getting upset at those teachers so they're not part of this discussion.

You're kidding right? There was plenty of backlash from parents toward teachers who wanted to get back to in person teaching. We were called people who wanted to kill their kids, that we didn't care about the fact that their kid was going to get the virus and bring it back home to their 400lb, diabetic parents with a heard condition and Emphysema.

Correct, the negative effects of kids not having in person schooling because the parents didn't want to or couldn't put in the time to ensure the lessons were completed. You can call it what you want, but getting the annoying kid out of the house and back to school was one of the driving forces.

 

[BTF69]

Good post for the most part but I’ll disagree with the last part.

We were a district that brought everyone back in the fall of 2020.

Plenty of teachers, myself included, lines of thinking were “So we’re gonna bring everyone back, but you’re still going to make me teach AND coach in this mask all day?! Pick a horse already!”

Oh my god, right??!!

 

[BTF69]

You have this uncanny ability to make 2 different situations seem like they're the exact same.

Even if I got annoyed with my kiddos in the summer of 2020, me wanting them to go to school in-person in the fall of 2020 and beyond isn't the same as me being annoyed with them because I had to tell them 6 times to clean their room.

So of course kids annoy their parents, I never denied that. But that's not the reason why they actually wanted them to go to school during Covid.

It is a gift!

Let me just ask you this, you seem like a normal person. Do you think there is any chance at all that any parent after the first run of remote learning...was sick of their kids being at home 24/7 and wanted them to be back in school because they were ****ing annoyed. Do you think that is at all possible?

Then, do you think that maybe, just maybe, some of them grabbed on to the "The kids need socialization!" as their main "reason"...

 

[V-Doub]

It is the same, parents were done dealing with their kids because they were around all the time. You can attempt to be "parent of the year" and pretend that you were ONLY concerned about the education but any normal person doesn't want to have their kids with them 24/7 365, especially if they are trying to work their own job from home.

Again, as far as teachers who didn't want to teach in person. They had no choice. If the schools opened for in person, they either went to work or they lost their jobs, at least here in Texas. If the schools stayed distance learning, then the teachers taught the students from their home. Teachers complaining about having to go to the classroom is one thing. Teachers complain about a lot of things, but they still come in and do their jobs, or they change career fields.

If I wanted to overgeneralize this, it was liberal teachers complaining and liberal cities and states that were fighting the return to in person classes.

Haha, no it's not. The education concern doesn't have to be the ONLY concern for it to be the most important concern. And the most important concern by a mile.

We were seeing the negative learning affects of kids not having in-person school. Don't you think that was the driving force more so than "Get this kid away from me, they're annoying me." ???

You keep bringing up the teachers who wanted to teach in-person, but weren't allowed to. No one was getting upset at those teachers so they're not part of this discussion.

Just my 2 cents. Yes, I’m sure most teachers, especially public educators, did not have much or any say whether learning was remote or in person. That decision came down from a collaboration between politicians, the teachers’ union and the school administrators. That being said, I never saw one single teacher, not one, take to the internet (TikTok, Facebook or instagram) claiming that remote learning was detrimental to their students advancement, that studies show that children are not at an elevated risk of contracting or having serious long term affects from coronavirus, that masking isn’t helpful or necessary (especially for children) and parents are overwhelmed by trying work a full time job and making sure their children were getting an adequate education. Never saw any teachers taking to social media to get that message out.

What I did see was… teachers by the dozens taking to social media saying “I’m not gonna risk my life to educate your child in person. We need more money/funding to ensure the safety of our teachers returning to in person learning. Masking saves lives and is the absolute minimum measure to ensure safety. Remote learning can be just as effective as in person learning with the proper funding and support.” etc… etc…

So maybe it wasn’t the teachers decision, but they seemed to support and back that decision at a 90%+ rate. And if there were teachers that were against remote learning, none of them spoke up and dared to counter the Union’s plan to blackmail the federal government for more money. Any many many did individually speak up in support for the Union’s resistance to return to in person learning. Call me cynical, but I think lots of teachers are playing revisionist history now that we’ve seen how detrimental remote learning and militant mask mandates were. JMO

 

[BTF69]

I personally wanted to be back in the classroom and without masks and all the shit.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Just my 2 cents. Yes, I’m sure most teachers, especially public educators, did not have much or any say whether learning was remote or in person. That decision came down from a collaboration between politicians, the teachers’ union and the school administrators. That being said, I never saw one single teacher, not one, take to the internet (TikTok, Facebook or instagram) claiming that remote learning was detrimental to their students advancement, that studies show that children are not at an elevated risk of contracting or having serious long term affects from coronavirus, that masking isn’t helpful or necessary (especially for children) and parents are overwhelmed by trying work a full time job and making sure their children were getting an adequate education. Never saw any teachers taking to social media to get that message out.

What I did see was… teachers by the dozens taking to social media saying “I’m not gonna risk my life to educate your child in person. We need more money/funding to ensure the safety of our teachers returning to in person learning. Masking saves lives and is the absolute minimum measure to ensure safety. Remote learning can be just as effective as in person learning with the proper funding and support.” etc… etc…

So maybe it wasn’t the teachers decision, but they seemed to support and back that decision at a 90%+ rate. And if there were teachers that were against remote learning, none of them spoke up and dared to counter the Union’s plan to blackmail the federal government for more money. Any many many did individually speak up in support for the Union’s resistance to return to in person learning. Call me cynical, but I think lots of teachers are playing revisionist history now that we’ve seen how detrimental remote learning and militant mask mandates were. JMO

Not sure where you live, but I can assure you in the district I live and teach in, there was nothing but complaints from the teachers about remote learning. It was ineffective, and again our district had to go through the cost of setting up a remote learning academy just to placate the parents that stated what I wrote before about teachers wanting to kill their family members by getting back to in classroom schooling. Again that option lasted 3 1/2 months because it was so ineffective and poorly attended.

Again here, there was nothing like the 90+% rate. In fact, like most things it was a vocal few that spoke out the loudest that gave the impression that it was wide spread. The union talking points were what was reported, so people like you believe that it was the rank and file educators that were stating those things. Most of the loudest were those like Randi Weingarten and the liberal elite who wanted to keep your kids at home.

The teacher's union down here isn't really a traditional union.

 

[V-Doub]

Not sure where you live, but I can assure you in the district I live and teach in, there was nothing but complaints from the teachers about remote learning. It was ineffective, and again our district had to go through the cost of setting up a remote learning academy just to placate the parents that stated what I wrote before about teachers wanting to kill their family members by getting back to in classroom schooling. Again that option lasted 3 1/2 months because it was so ineffective and poorly attended.

Again here, there was nothing like the 90+% rate. In fact, like most things it was a vocal few that spoke out the loudest that gave the impression that it was wide spread. The union talking points were what was reported, so people like you believe that it was the rank and file educators that were stating those things. Most of the loudest were those like Randi Weingarten and the liberal elite who wanted to keep your kids at home.

The teacher's union down here isn't really a traditional union.

I don’t think my part of the country makes too much difference. I’m just going off of what the overwhelming consensus was on social media. I’m sure many teachers were against remote learning, but none (or very few, cause I never saw anything) took to social media to rail against the Union’s decision to push for extended remote learning.

In the end this is a very difficult conversation to have, but necessary. Difficult because no teacher believes they are a bad/poor teacher. It’s like getting mother to accept she isn’t doing an adequate job parenting her child. No mothers believe that they are bad moms and no teachers believe they are bad teachers. And while many are excellent educators, we all know that bad teachers and bad parents exist.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I don’t think my part of the country makes too much difference. I’m just going off of what the overwhelming consensus was on social media. I’m sure many teachers were against remote learning, but none (or very few, cause I never saw anything) took to social media to rail against the Union’s decision to push for extended remote learning.

In the end this is a very difficult conversation to have, but necessary. Difficult because no teacher believes they are a bad/poor teacher. It’s like getting mother to accept she isn’t doing an adequate job parenting her child. No mothers believe that they are bad moms and no teachers believe they are bad teachers. And while many are excellent educators, we all know that bad teachers and bad parents exist.

Teaching is no different in that aspect than garbage men or doctors. Not many think they do bad or poorly at their job and those that do, won't say it out loud.

What does it matter if anyone publicly states on a social media platform that they are against remote learning? Was it going to change the situation? Did complaining about states forcing the issue of getting back to in person learning shut up Weingarten? In my opinion, one side plays the vocal victim, the other not so much.

 

[V-Doub]

Teaching is no different in that aspect than garbage men or doctors. Not many think they do bad or poorly at their job and those that do, won't say it out loud.

What does it matter if anyone publicly states on a social media platform that they are against remote learning? Was it going to change the situation? Did complaining about states forcing the issue of getting back to in person learning shut up Weingarten? In my opinion, one side plays the vocal victim, the other not so much.

Would it have made a difference? We’ll never know cause nobody had the stones to make their opinion(s) public. It might have made a difference if the union believed that the majority of their teachers did not support their stance on remote learning.

And I do believe the quantity of social media entries does have merit with regards to where most teachers stood on remote learning. Plenty of teachers felt the need to publicly express their selfish opinion that their safety was their #1 concern and that more money was the only way to ensure their safety. Very few, if any, took to a public forum to express their concerns for children’s learning loss and lack of socialization. That dichotomy may not tell everything with regards to how the majority of teachers approached remote learning. But it is telling and likely indicates that most teachers (especially in large urban school districts) were all in on extorting more money from the fed to get them back in the classroom.

 

[HuskerO]

You're kidding right? There was plenty of backlash from parents toward teachers who wanted to get back to in person teaching. We were called people who wanted to kill their kids, that we didn't care about the fact that their kid was going to get the virus and bring it back home to their 400lb, diabetic parents with a heard condition and Emphysema.

I feel like I've been pretty specific on the group of people in this conversation, i.e., parents who wanted their kids back in school and teachers who didn't want to go back to in-person learning.

Many of your rebuttals against what I'm saying are bringing up other variables that don't pertain to what I'm talking about such as teachers who did want in-person school and now, parents who didn't want their kids back in school.

Again, I'm trying to hash out  why teachers were deamonized at some point when in-person learning started back up.

BFT69 is claiming it was due to parents being super annoyed with their kids and didn't want them home anymore (during school hours).

I'm claiming it was targeted towards those teachers who didn't want in-person learning by parents who wanted their kids in school.

Your situation, while true and how those teachers were treated was bullcrap, doesn't apply to what I'm saying only because we're (BFT and I) talking about parents who wanted their kids back at school, in-person.

Correct, the negative effects of kids not having in person schooling because the parents didn't want to or couldn't put in the time to ensure the lessons were completed. You can call it what you want, but getting the annoying kid out of the house and back to school was one of the driving forces.

Right, I'll correctly call it what it was and that was because parents knew remote learning was hurting their kids. Not because they got annoyed with their kids.

Two things can be true at the same time. Your kids annoy you and that's not the driving force as to why you want them in school.

 

[HuskerO]

It is a gift!

Let me just ask you this, you seem like a normal person. Do you think there is any chance at all that any parent after the first run of remote learning...was sick of their kids being at home 24/7 and wanted them to be back in school because they were ****ing annoyed. Do you think that is at all possible?

Then, do you think that maybe, just maybe, some of them grabbed on to the "The kids need socialization!" as their main "reason"...

My response to Tuco before I saw your post.

Two things can be true at the same time. Your kids annoy you and that's not the driving force as to why you want them in school.

I'll add, I don't speak in absolutes so I'm not saying there weren't any parents who didn't feel that way. I'm just saying it wasn't the main reason. Not even close imo.

 

[HuskerO]

Teaching is no different in that aspect than garbage men or doctors. Not many think they do bad or poorly at their job and those that do, won't say it out loud.

What does it matter if anyone publicly states on a social media platform that they are against remote learning? Was it going to change the situation? Did complaining about states forcing the issue of getting back to in person learning shut up Weingarten? In my opinion, one side plays the vocal victim, the other not so much.

At the time, if you were super vocal on social media against the mask mandate, it could've possibly cost you your job. You definitely would've been doxxed which has to be a complete nightmare all on its own.

 

[TruHusker]

Well, this is an interesting thread.

The respect for teachers has been on a decline well before Covid. While I think there are still many teachers who are well respected, the list is getting smaller for several reasons in my opinion. I have been a teacher at two different schools and administrator at 2 others in the public sector and two as admin in the private sector. The one thing I learned quickly was how much influence the teachers union had in some districts. The smaller one I taught in didn't pressure me to join KNEA but chastised me when I gave up planning time to work with at-risk kids, like it was any of their business. Apparently made some look bad and they didn't like that. I was an administrator at one small and one larger district and they were like night and day. The kids at the smaller district loved their teachers for the most part, always has to be one exception and the teachers worked their butts off for the kids. The big district was all about ME as the teachers and I dreaded being on the Negotiations team every year there. It all seemed so selfish and there was little to no focus on students, it was all about more money, time off and teaching load.

After I retired, a local Special Ed Cooperative hired me to develop technology using iPads for students with disabilities. It was very rewarding and something pretty new at the time. I am sure Tuco sees this in his classroom of 8. Anyway, I was in the classrooms observing students in roughly 12 school districts including ours which has 2 5A high schools. I was in all grades, regular ed. I saw stuff that would make my head explode. Lazy teaching, kids would right in the middle of class start breaking out chips and salsa and donuts and some teachers would maybe teach 15 minutes out of 60 minute class. Again, there were some teachers that I would call "old school" who worked their buttss off to get more out kids, but few and far between. The teachers wanted to be liked as being nice it seemed.

Over the last 5 years I have subbed at pretty much every building and grade level and the reliance on technology as the teacher seems to be the model. If it can be on a smart board and loaded on a Chrome Book, that is how the student is going to learn. The teachers are frustrated because the students don't seem to care. duh The expectations are low and the students, generally are pretty disrespectful. I was subbing in 2nd or 3rd grade last year and walking around the room and reading a story out loud when I saw some kids passing notes. I slowly walked over and picked up the note and a girl had written "F_ _ _ _ You to a boy and some other stuff. They didn't care they got caught and might get in trouble. The teachers in this building shared with me how frustrated they are and want out.

Covid was mentioned and I do not discount that having kids at home all day was an issue for some. Add in that the kids couldn't really go anywhere like they would during the summer which made it worse. Our district went to on-line class meetings and each kid had a chromebook and a hot spot if they did not have internet. They told the kids their grades were frozen and could not go down, only up. Well, good grief, that's about the worst thing you can tell a kid - I don't have to do anything to get the grade I have now! Since I often worked with parents directly since I had teach them to use the technology for their special needs child, I heard all the complaining about how lazy some teachers were in preparation and classes were pretty basic. The parents didn't get an good warm fuzzies from most of the teachers. Granted it was a new deal for teachers so I get that. My wife worked at one of the High Schools and is a math tutor so she would contact kids who she thought needed help and surprisingly, only one or two replied whereas at school she might have 5 or 6 at time anywhere from Algebra on up. In short the teachers did not do themselves any favors during all of the plandemic.

I also believe a lot of this goes with the erosion of our society in general. My wife had kids in the high school that were Tommy one day and Tammy the next just to show power over the teachers and keep them guessing. You have teachers getting sued for not using the correct pronoun which we had one national news making case just down the road from us and the teacher won. There is a big push on the National level to take schools a certain direction and all you have to do is read the unions goals and student success is hard to find. There is porn everywhere in grade schools and teachers are powerless to do much with the kids, some try, some go along with it.

It would be nice to simply say it all happened because kids were driving parents mad at home during covid but the problems go much deeper and for much longer. I was blessed to be a principal at a small high school that had amazing test scores and teachers who worked their butts off and expected the same of students. The most amazing group I have ever been part of. They are all retired now and the schools test scores have leveled off to the average of the area. Human nature is what it is, parents with low expectations and students with the same combined with teachers who are not extremely motivated or reliant on technology and you have a mess.

Just my two cents. YMMV

 

[BTF69]

Well, this is an interesting thread.

The respect for teachers has been on a decline well before Covid. While I think there are still many teachers who are well respected, the list is getting smaller for several reasons in my opinion. I have been a teacher at two different schools and administrator at 2 others in the public sector and two as admin in the private sector. The one thing I learned quickly was how much influence the teachers union had in some districts. The smaller one I taught in didn't pressure me to join KNEA but chastised me when I gave up planning time to work with at-risk kids, like it was any of their business. Apparently made some look bad and they didn't like that. I was an administrator at one small and one larger district and they were like night and day. The kids at the smaller district loved their teachers for the most part, always has to be one exception and the teachers worked their butts off for the kids. The big district was all about ME as the teachers and I dreaded being on the Negotiations team every year there. It all seemed so selfish and there was little to no focus on students, it was all about more money, time off and teaching load.

After I retired, a local Special Ed Cooperative hired me to develop technology using iPads for students with disabilities. It was very rewarding and something pretty new at the time. I am sure Tuco sees this in his classroom of 8. Anyway, I was in the classrooms observing students in roughly 12 school districts including ours which has 2 5A high schools. I was in all grades, regular ed. I saw stuff that would make my head explode. Lazy teaching, kids would right in the middle of class start breaking out chips and salsa and donuts and some teachers would maybe teach 15 minutes out of 60 minute class. Again, there were some teachers that I would call "old school" who worked their buttss off to get more out kids, but few and far between. The teachers wanted to be liked as being nice it seemed.

Over the last 5 years I have subbed at pretty much every building and grade level and the reliance on technology as the teacher seems to be the model. If it can be on a smart board and loaded on a Chrome Book, that is how the student is going to learn. The teachers are frustrated because the students don't seem to care. duh The expectations are low and the students, generally are pretty disrespectful. I was subbing in 2nd or 3rd grade last year and walking around the room and reading a story out loud when I saw some kids passing notes. I slowly walked over and picked up the note and a girl had written "F_ _ _ _ You to a boy and some other stuff. They didn't care they got caught and might get in trouble. The teachers in this building shared with me how frustrated they are and want out.

Covid was mentioned and I do not discount that having kids at home all day was an issue for some. Add in that the kids couldn't really go anywhere like they would during the summer which made it worse. Our district went to on-line class meetings and each kid had a chromebook and a hot spot if they did not have internet. They told the kids their grades were frozen and could not go down, only up. Well, good grief, that's about the worst thing you can tell a kid - I don't have to do anything to get the grade I have now! Since I often worked with parents directly since I had teach them to use the technology for their special needs child, I heard all the complaining about how lazy some teachers were in preparation and classes were pretty basic. The parents didn't get an good warm fuzzies from most of the teachers. Granted it was a new deal for teachers so I get that. My wife worked at one of the High Schools and is a math tutor so she would contact kids who she thought needed help and surprisingly, only one or two replied whereas at school she might have 5 or 6 at time anywhere from Algebra on up. In short the teachers did not do themselves any favors during all of the plandemic.

I also believe a lot of this goes with the erosion of our society in general. My wife had kids in the high school that were Tommy one day and Tammy the next just to show power over the teachers and keep them guessing. You have teachers getting sued for not using the correct pronoun which we had one national news making case just down the road from us and the teacher won. There is a big push on the National level to take schools a certain direction and all you have to do is read the unions goals and student success is hard to find. There is porn everywhere in grade schools and teachers are powerless to do much with the kids, some try, some go along with it.

It would be nice to simply say it all happened because kids were driving parents mad at home during covid but the problems go much deeper and for much longer. I was blessed to be a principal at a small high school that had amazing test scores and teachers who worked their butts off and expected the same of students. The most amazing group I have ever been part of. They are all retired now and the schools test scores have leveled off to the average of the area. Human nature is what it is, parents with low expectations and students with the same combined with teachers who are not extremely motivated or reliant on technology and you have a mess.

Just my two cents. YMMV

You probably never should have got into admin...it changes everything. As you know.

 

[TruHusker]

It doesn't

You probably never should have got into admin...it changes everything. As you know.

It doesn't change anything. The cause and effect are already there with or without me.

Here is another example I often used. I had several people that were teachers who became administrators, either for me or at other schools. The first thing I told them is they may be surprised when they go into rooms. There are teachers, and you know who they are, who have these reputations from the students as being fun, good, and all that stuff, fluffy talk. And to be fair, they are out there and there are some who are just doing enough to get by and the students have no clue and are happy with it as long as they are not pushed. When my kids were in high school (I did not teach/admin there) a friend was a teacher and coach. He was a good FB and track coach and got along great with the kids, I would say he was "popular". The kicker was parents thought he was a really good teacher too, as if coaches can't be good teachers which I never understood. Only my son had him in a class but he never said much but several kids who were friends of our kids, later said he was not the great teacher he was made out to be but no one was going to say anything. He taught off the cuff, would teach the same material multiple times and not much depth, graded easy, no homework, but the kids knew it and were OK with it. Back to people who got into administration, I told them to not be surprised by what they witnessed when they went into classrooms and I left it there. I can't remember any not getting back to me with a response to that challenge, they said, they were amazed at what they saw going on in classrooms of SOME teachers. It never failed. Kids are smart and will work up or down to the expectations and especially if the person is nice and friendly, especially a coach, they aren't going to rock the boat.

I worked with at-risk kids for a couple years at a HS and monitored their classes and communicated with teachers about assignments, etc. You know the drill. I was essentially in every classroom except those that taught the upper level math and sciences. Our principal left and a board member asked if I would be interested in being the principal which I quickly said no to. The reason was I saw what was going on when no admin was around and it wasn't the environment I wanted to be an administrator in. It was an easy decision I never regretted.

As I said earlier, when I was just a technology person using it to help kids I was in many different schools and classrooms. Most were good but I saw some of the same issues, limited prep, lots of "projects" where the students had plenty of time to get them done during class and maybe 10 minutes of teaching. You have the same limitations as the people I knew who went from being a teacher to being an administrator - you have opinions based on what you THINK you know, not really what is always going on.

Everyone in the system from the state to the parents to the administration to the parents and the teachers have to be responsible. Any break down along the way and things fall apart.

 

[BTF69]

It doesn't

It doesn't change anything. The cause and effect are already there with or without me.

Here is another example I often used. I had several people that were teachers who became administrators, either for me or at other schools. The first thing I told them is they may be surprised when they go into rooms. There are teachers, and you know who they are, who have these reputations from the students as being fun, good, and all that stuff, fluffy talk. And to be fair, they are out there and there are some who are just doing enough to get by and the students have no clue and are happy with it as long as they are not pushed. When my kids were in high school (I did not teach/admin there) a friend was a teacher and coach. He was a good FB and track coach and got along great with the kids, I would say he was "popular". The kicker was parents thought he was a really good teacher too, as if coaches can't be good teachers which I never understood. Only my son had him in a class but he never said much but several kids who were friends of our kids, later said he was not the great teacher he was made out to be but no one was going to say anything. He taught off the cuff, would teach the same material multiple times and not much depth, graded easy, no homework, but the kids knew it and were OK with it. Back to people who got into administration, I told them to not be surprised by what they witnessed when they went into classrooms and I left it there. I can't remember any not getting back to me with a response to that challenge, they said, they were amazed at what they saw going on in classrooms of SOME teachers. It never failed. Kids are smart and will work up or down to the expectations and especially if the person is nice and friendly, especially a coach, they aren't going to rock the boat.

I worked with at-risk kids for a couple years at a HS and monitored their classes and communicated with teachers about assignments, etc. You know the drill. I was essentially in every classroom except those that taught the upper level math and sciences. Our principal left and a board member asked if I would be interested in being the principal which I quickly said no to. The reason was I saw what was going on when no admin was around and it wasn't the environment I wanted to be an administrator in. It was an easy decision I never regretted.

As I said earlier, when I was just a technology person using it to help kids I was in many different schools and classrooms. Most were good but I saw some of the same issues, limited prep, lots of "projects" where the students had plenty of time to get them done during class and maybe 10 minutes of teaching. You have the same limitations as the people I knew who went from being a teacher to being an administrator - you have opinions based on what you THINK you know, not really what is always going on.

Everyone in the system from the state to the parents to the administration to the parents and the teachers have to be responsible. Any break down along the way and things fall apart.

I feel like, in my experiences, that the worst teachers love to become admin and end up also being the worst administrators.

I feel like you should have to teach in the classroom for at least 10 years before becoming a principal.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

A note from one of my kid's parents. I remind you this is an 8 student classroom where they only go to specials with an escort from a paraprofessional.

"He is feeling better with his allergies, but this time change is really affecting his sleep. He is very whiny this morning" This is a 4th grade male student.

These are your problems to take care of mom. I have no control over you putting an allergy medicine in your kid, nor do I have control over what time you put your kid to bed to prepare him for the time change. When did parents just straight up stop parenting?

 

[cubsker]

Can we get back to teachers banging students please?