So with all the talent need discussion...
- Thread starter otismotis08
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That's the thing, clearly talent and depth are issues. But until we can either recruit or develop talent and depth nothing will change.
I think the problem is selling the entire product to the recruits given the lack of momentum within the program. Nebraska has really good facilities etc... but so do quite a few schools. Nebraska can sell playing time but so can other schools. It isn't an easy sell when you finish the season like Nebraska did and the fact they were dominated in 3 of the 4 losses. Nebraska has a lot to offer any recruit but the program hasn't been relevant on the national scene for a long time and that is a lot to overcome with the current student athlete.
Might need to take a few diamonds in the rough that might not be the ideal size but have the heart of a lion and coach them up big time.
Might need to take a few diamonds in the rough that might not be the ideal size but have the heart of a lion and coach them up big time.
Invest in the very best recruiters and coaching staff.
Even with the best recruiters you still have to convince the elite high school players that Nebraska is the best place for them. Many schools have great facilities, strength/conditioning programs, and can offer early playing time possibilities etc...
The only area that Nebraska might have an edge over most schools is with the Academics Student-Athlete Support Services. As we are aware, some athletes...even within our own program...are only looking to make it to the "League" and academics may not be a priority for them in the first place.
I think some of you are not very realistic with how hard it is to recruit difference maker athletes to Lincoln given Nebraska's current standing/position in college football.
That is what the best recruiters do. Convince the best kids and sell the program...warts and all.
This
We have to be willing to pay up for a great coach like bama or Michigan osu. Or get lucky with someone like a younger bill snyder.
Sometimes it just takes that one program changing recruit to get the ball rolling. One RG3, Cam Newton or Johnny Mazel. All 4-stars that their programs hit big on. Then recruiting became much easier. I bet it will be easier for Patrino to recruit elite offensive talent to Louisville post Lamar Jackson.
So what's hurting us the most right now? The Pelini public image hangover? Inability to get recruits to "sign on the dotted line"? Not having the BEST facilities? We know that Coach Riley isn't going anywhere, immediately, despite the fact he wasn't the big name hire many wanted...What are your thoughts? I'm going to blame it all on the ESPN conspiracy against Nebraska...note the sarcasm...
I agree with you but it isn't as easy as some want to believe.
We didn't receive a commitment for about 3 months. That speaks loudly and yes we do have some really good recruiters on staff.
Not saying it's easy. And it's not cheap. But if we are serious about our football program, you've got to make it happen.
Ok...I hear you. What does Nebraska need to do to "make it happen"? I would like to see some specifics instead of generalities...thanks.
We had the best defensive lineman in college football actually at Nebraska in the last 20 years and we still couldn't capitalize on Suh with regards to getting supreme defensive line talent to Lincoln. Again, it isn't as easy as some people think to get them to call Lincoln home for 4-5 years.
I don't know - does it make a difference when a kid is sitting across from a coach who says - "Join us - we build championship teams and win championships. Come help us win more" versus "I will help you become a well rounded student athlete and you might help us win my first championship"?
Seek out the best young recruiters, have a plan, and execute it. Pay up.
And establish an identity. Recruit to it.
We aren't going to get back to elite status overnight. We are too far down the rabbit hole of irrelevance to expect any coach to come in here and start recruiting elite athletes.
So we have to build toward that, step by step. Wisconsin, Iowa, and until this year, MSU, all had reached a level of consistency as programs such that they were competitive in almost every game, and did so largely with 3 star type guys. Were they spectacular? No. But for the most part they were/are competitive. I am not holding them up as our standard (God forbid), but merely as an example of programs (especially Wisky) that have done pretty damn well with 3 star talent.
I would be happy if I saw evidence that we were building toward that type of consistency. Reach that level, then you recruit the next Tommie Frazier or Cam Newton and you are on your way.
But you need an identity and a "system". You need coaches that can elicit disciplined play in fundamentals. You need coaches that can teach 3 star lineman how to be tough as nails and take on anyone. You need to recruit athletes with character who are team players and are willing to work their asses off for the team.
Right now it seems Riley has swung for the fences in recruiting and failed. He brought in tons of elite athletes but almost all said "no thanks". Riley is being praised for getting them here and rightly so. Let's just hope he has about 8 or 9 "plan B" kind of guys lined up who are not just panic recruits who will never amount to much, but real ballers and gamers who can be coached up as described above. If he can at least do that I will be content.
Everyone on here who is screaming for us to have a top 15 class "or else" are being short sighted in my view. We certainly never want to lose our focus and our standards as a blue blood program. But the chest thumping mantra "we are Nebraska damn it and we don't settle for 25th rated classes!" is hurting us right now as a fan base rather than helping. The Nebraska brand is deeply diminished. We are not, despite what some might wish, what we used to be. It is going to take time to get us back there.
And even if Riley ends up with a class rated 26th, it will probably still be a better class than a Pelini class at 26th because they will be real recruits, filling real needs, rather than panic recruits brought in Willy Nilly at the end, scrambling for whatever.
We may go 5 or 6 more years of 9-4 or 10-3 type seasons, and Riley may retire, before we ever reach elite status again. But I will be content, in the short run, with those kinds of seasons so long as we are competitive in every game, not getting blown out on every big stage, and develop an identity once again as a tough, tough, team that plays with physicality, discipline and intelligence.
To me that is why our last two games worry me. Our team looks apathetic, undisciplined, unfocused and certainly not tough or competitive. I have zero insight as to why that is. I will leave that to others, much smarter in such things than I.
But I do know this: We won't ever break out of this valley if we change coaches every four years. I have serious doubts and misgivings about Riley and have expressed them on here. But that is all they are - - doubts and misgivings. Opinions.
Riley needs and deserves time. And it is in our best interests to give it to him no matter our doubts. That is why I started another thread that simply said "This year is done. Time to move on"
Bring on next year
GBR
So we have to build toward that, step by step. Wisconsin, Iowa, and until this year, MSU, all had reached a level of consistency as programs such that they were competitive in almost every game, and did so largely with 3 star type guys. Were they spectacular? No. But for the most part they were/are competitive. I am not holding them up as our standard (God forbid), but merely as an example of programs (especially Wisky) that have done pretty damn well with 3 star talent.
I would be happy if I saw evidence that we were building toward that type of consistency. Reach that level, then you recruit the next Tommie Frazier or Cam Newton and you are on your way.
But you need an identity and a "system". You need coaches that can elicit disciplined play in fundamentals. You need coaches that can teach 3 star lineman how to be tough as nails and take on anyone. You need to recruit athletes with character who are team players and are willing to work their asses off for the team.
Right now it seems Riley has swung for the fences in recruiting and failed. He brought in tons of elite athletes but almost all said "no thanks". Riley is being praised for getting them here and rightly so. Let's just hope he has about 8 or 9 "plan B" kind of guys lined up who are not just panic recruits who will never amount to much, but real ballers and gamers who can be coached up as described above. If he can at least do that I will be content.
Everyone on here who is screaming for us to have a top 15 class "or else" are being short sighted in my view. We certainly never want to lose our focus and our standards as a blue blood program. But the chest thumping mantra "we are Nebraska damn it and we don't settle for 25th rated classes!" is hurting us right now as a fan base rather than helping. The Nebraska brand is deeply diminished. We are not, despite what some might wish, what we used to be. It is going to take time to get us back there.
And even if Riley ends up with a class rated 26th, it will probably still be a better class than a Pelini class at 26th because they will be real recruits, filling real needs, rather than panic recruits brought in Willy Nilly at the end, scrambling for whatever.
We may go 5 or 6 more years of 9-4 or 10-3 type seasons, and Riley may retire, before we ever reach elite status again. But I will be content, in the short run, with those kinds of seasons so long as we are competitive in every game, not getting blown out on every big stage, and develop an identity once again as a tough, tough, team that plays with physicality, discipline and intelligence.
To me that is why our last two games worry me. Our team looks apathetic, undisciplined, unfocused and certainly not tough or competitive. I have zero insight as to why that is. I will leave that to others, much smarter in such things than I.
But I do know this: We won't ever break out of this valley if we change coaches every four years. I have serious doubts and misgivings about Riley and have expressed them on here. But that is all they are - - doubts and misgivings. Opinions.
Riley needs and deserves time. And it is in our best interests to give it to him no matter our doubts. That is why I started another thread that simply said "This year is done. Time to move on"
Bring on next year
GBR
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All of this makes perfect sense...again easier said than done even at a storied football program like Nebraska.
There's an idea that if you can get a recruit to Lincoln, that the program would sell itself. This may be true for a recruit with lower ranked offers, but I don't think so if you're talking about battling for recruits with the top programs in CFB.
"Hey, this really good recruit said he likes us." Well, he said that about a bunch of other programs as well. I have no idea on the real probabilities involved, but if you have a 1 in 5 shot for a recruit, you better have 5 recruits interested before you should expect to get one committed. The answer, just look at other top programs. They're not having to wait for January answers. Maybe 10 teams already are top 20, maybe 7 or 8 that are top 15. These teams don't have to add another recruit, and they'll finish top 20 or top 15.
In the end, I think it's about salesmanship.
"Hey, this really good recruit said he likes us." Well, he said that about a bunch of other programs as well. I have no idea on the real probabilities involved, but if you have a 1 in 5 shot for a recruit, you better have 5 recruits interested before you should expect to get one committed. The answer, just look at other top programs. They're not having to wait for January answers. Maybe 10 teams already are top 20, maybe 7 or 8 that are top 15. These teams don't have to add another recruit, and they'll finish top 20 or top 15.
In the end, I think it's about salesmanship.
This!! But why would they come here when they can go anywhere? Not a slam, but think about it. How long until D Will is gone? He's already seen It's much harder.
Pay up and take care of them as long as you can. Always have plan B and C in the drawer.
We should have, totally failed to capitalize. At that point, I think, Bo and Carl honestly believed they could coach any kid up to that level.
Excellent point. It is not as easy to recruit/hire great recruiters in order to get the great recruits to Lincoln as some believe.
It depends on what motivates DWilliams, or any person for that matter. Does DWilliams want to be a OC or head coach? Does he want to make the most money possible? Does he want to be known as the best recruiter (not make more money or move up the coaching ladder)?
If we can provide that which motivates DWilliams, then he'll stay here.
Like they say in the business world, to Make Money you have to Send Money. So for NU to recruit and win like the elite teams like Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Clemson, FSU and etc., they have to pay for a good coach to come here.
Agree 100% but it doesn't make it any easier to convince the difference maker athlete to actually sign the LOI to Lincoln.
Excellent point. It is not as easy to recruit/hire great recruiters in order to get the great recruits to Lincoln as some believe.
Ya, when a guy like Ed Orgeron publicly states that he's interested in joining the NU staff, you actually have to talk with him instead of just ignoring him.
I think it's fair to say that we're all anxious to return to relevancy on the national stage and I know the past two years (10+ actually) have been frustrating for many, myself included...
I'm going to say that if we truly are that low on the talent meter, as many have all ready noted, and I would agree with, that we've got to give this coaching staff some credit for where we went this year with everything taken into account...talent, injuries, lack of players to fit the Riley system, etc... I know that it's not what we're used to, but it was nice to be competitive at Camp Randall yet sad that the season had the OSU and Iowa losses be what they were...but again with the talent we had to win the games that we did is, IMO, noteworthy...
Now moving forward, we all know that the end of this recruiting cycle is crucial, and with that and seeing what 2017 brings with a QB that fits Coach Riley's system I'm cautiously optimistic...
Continuing to challenge the current top programs for the best recruits is crucial...shoring up the LOS on both sides of the ball...and hopefully landing that occasional "lightning in a bottle" athlete, too.
I'm going to say that if we truly are that low on the talent meter, as many have all ready noted, and I would agree with, that we've got to give this coaching staff some credit for where we went this year with everything taken into account...talent, injuries, lack of players to fit the Riley system, etc... I know that it's not what we're used to, but it was nice to be competitive at Camp Randall yet sad that the season had the OSU and Iowa losses be what they were...but again with the talent we had to win the games that we did is, IMO, noteworthy...
Now moving forward, we all know that the end of this recruiting cycle is crucial, and with that and seeing what 2017 brings with a QB that fits Coach Riley's system I'm cautiously optimistic...
Continuing to challenge the current top programs for the best recruits is crucial...shoring up the LOS on both sides of the ball...and hopefully landing that occasional "lightning in a bottle" athlete, too.
Looks like it is a matter of money judging from the posts above. So I suggest we start one of those fund me things or else everyone on this board can start giving a mil a year because that is what you are talking about. This is being way over simplified.
This would be my strategy as well. I want younger guys that are willing to bust their ass off in hopes of getting that next promotion whether here or somewhere else.
I read an article the other day about how Belichick hires people and it's absolutely fascinating. He finds the guys wanting to put in the work to get where they want to be. They learn and they may only be there a couple years and they're off to somewhere else filled by the next group of hard working young coaches. The success of those who were on his staff in some capacity at other positions helps to make it easier to recruit high quality young coaches to his staff.
So we make around $20 million from the B1G partially vested, around $40 million fully vested. One only has to visit or see pictures of our facilities to see the vast, VAST amount of money poured into this program. To go cheapskate on the coaches is crazy.
Why would anyone hire Ed Orgeron? He's the kiss of death to head coaches who hire him.
Recruit speed and attitude at every position. Seemed to work for us in the 90's. That's my simplistic approach to recruiting! Osborne always said it was the Jimmy's & the Joe's, not the X's & O's.
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