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What happened with Tommy? I also remember him being very accurate on third downs. I was openly rooting against Nebraska and seem to remember him converting third downs through the air at times. The Oregon game comes to mind.
2016 - Armstrong Jr.: 151-294-8 51.4%
If Lee is as advertised we should be in good shape. If he show's little improvement from Tulane and doesn't improve upon Armstrong's numbers, we're screwed. Until he plays some games we won't know. And the backup is a RS freshman who hasn't played a game.
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Nick Saban also wasn't nearing the end of his coaching career. And should it matter if Riley was at the end of his Oregon State tenure? I'm not going to get upset with someone for posting stats. Especially when the initial tweet was about as nebulous as they come.
Riley's stats when he had a pretty good pro style QB at the helm makes me a little nervous. 11-15 with Manion isn't good.
i suppose. Not really the point of my post. Just providing his actual record and not a cherry picked 26 games.
If you're looking for bad signs you can find them in anything. People who don't like the Riley hire will say that he had losing seasons in 3 of his last 5 at Oregon St. I could say he had winning seasons in 2 of his last 3 and won 8 or more games in 5 of his last 9. It's all about the message you want to send.
Mannion put up pretty solid numbers at Oregon St. perhaps a few too many INTs but solid.
Armstrong got hurt and got worse. I don't think he got much better his last two years but the decline in his play his senior year was due to injury. He was what we thought he was, a great athlete playing QB and the best guy we had.
While I do remember some consternation in fall camp about his progress, he played well in the nonconference part of the schedule... after the nonconference games, I remember one of the B1G experts calling him conference offensive player of the year so far... obviously it didn't last, but he did seem to start the season better by far than the previous season.
Someone who is playing worse than the 16 interception season (or whatever it was) wouldn't be mentioned as offensive player of the year. And even though his stats were ugly, he did reduce pretty significantly the number of ints he threw. He wasn't an all American, not even all conference honorable mention... but I don't think he was worse his senior year.
My biggest frustration was that we didn't see him progress much from junior to senior year... that is disappointing. Could have been coaching, but I think it was more likely that he just isn't a pro style QB.
His lack of progress wasn't because of the coaching. Lots of people figured that out long ago with TA.
I agree. Considering also that Dennis Erickson is the one that put life into Oregon State, Riley had some good years for sure, but Erickson gave the program relevance.
Again Erickson, while kind of slimy, could be considered a premier coach. There is nothing wrong with saying Riley doesn't match up to Erickson. It doesn't mean he can't do well at Nebraska.
3-8
5-6
under Riley Became
7-5
11-1
5-6
8-5
Under Erickson
Which became
8-5
7-5
5-6
10-4
9-4
Under Riley
Not sure Erickson was really all that responsible for turning it around. He was no better than Riley. He just got out at the first chance, instead of seeing it through.
5-6
under Riley Became
7-5
11-1
5-6
8-5
Under Erickson
Which became
8-5
7-5
5-6
10-4
9-4
Under Riley
Not sure Erickson was really all that responsible for turning it around. He was no better than Riley. He just got out at the first chance, instead of seeing it through.
When it comes to coaching comparisons, it's pretty obvious who has had the upper hand.
Dennis Erickson
College 179-96-1; 65%
NFL 40-56; .417
Riley
College 108-91; 54%
NFL 14-34; .292
(2 Grey Cups)
I'm sure coaching at Miami had nothing to do with 65%...
I decided to do some checking... take out 63-9 record from Miami (immediately following Jimmy Johnson, so you know they were talented), and his total win percent in college is 57%.
Clearly better than Riley.
Except we weren't comparing coaching resumes. Someone wrote that Erickson gave the Oregon St program relevance. I disagreed and showed that Erickson had one good year a poor year and a couple of ok years. I don't think anyone was saying Oregon St was relevant when Erickson left. He's just a guy that had one good season at Oregon St.
So your saying we are sure to be much better overall no matter what; than we have been.
Amazing how easy it is to call out TA's warts but say one thing about the coaching staff and people get completely understand hinged about it.
We are 500 without TA last year at best.
Saved our ass all year until he got hurt.
We are 500 without TA last year at best.
Saved our ass all year until he got hurt.
I know. I wish someone in this fanbase would call out Riley's warts. That never happens. Ha ha.
We were in a comparable situation with TMart for his first three years.
That is not what I'm saying. I'm expecting potential roller coaster of seasons with Riley as his QB's go from raw to polished. Can that be proven, probably not, as all other things don't stay equal (i.e. better defense one year, worse defense the next). So, it's just my opinion that the down years could be more down, and the up years could be more up. I interpret the quote in the OP as follows:
"When he’s (Riley) got a guy who can control the game from the pocket (an NFL caliber passing QB), he’s tough to beat."
It seems there a subset of our fan base that believes having a NFL caliber QB is going to solve all our problems. You can go look at Riley's career at OrSU and see that an NFL QB is not a cure all. Riley never had a season with less than 4 losses.
Some people might want to bring up winning 9 games with TA, and then use circular reasoning to say that having a passing QB is going to make us that much better. Well, TA got to play to more of his strengths the second season with an offense that better suited him. If we had an improved version of TA skillset for this year, then the reasoning would be sound, but we don't, so you can't.
To throw in some positive. I don't expect us to have a losing season, our floor should be relatively high at 6 or 7 wins. TLee should be better, he has two years playing under his belt plus a year of sitting. Diaco's D is billed as a big play limiting D.
Erickson when Riley left the first time brought in a bunch of thugs and had a really good year with those players. Riley when he came back sustained some pretty good success without the thugs - then fell off dramatically his last 5 years
But people can assume and state that the offense will be worse because there is no threat of the QB run and that appears to be justified.
As I've stated before, Klatt's emphasis on the QB is short-sighted. When Riley's teams won 9 or 10 games, they also had a decent run game. Is the run game success because of the QB or is the QB success based on the run game.
I am also pretty excited about the defensive side of the ball this fall and going forward. I am not sure Riley's Oregon St teams ever had awesome defenses. I think Diaco brings that element.
As I've stated before, Klatt's emphasis on the QB is short-sighted. When Riley's teams won 9 or 10 games, they also had a decent run game. Is the run game success because of the QB or is the QB success based on the run game.
I am also pretty excited about the defensive side of the ball this fall and going forward. I am not sure Riley's Oregon St teams ever had awesome defenses. I think Diaco brings that element.
I don't know why you keep adding pro caliber NFL QB. Klatt doesn't say that, and there are lots of college QBs that can control the pocket that never sniff the pros. I would love to have the next Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, but a Zac Taylor would have success in this offense too. It requires someone who can go through his progressions and make the throw. TA couldn't do that consistently. His legs bailed him out of some poor decision making again and again, but the mental errors under Lee should be less than they were under TA. And as Tuco has said repeatedly in this thread, you can't ignore defense. When the defense is solid, it makes the offense look that much better.
Just remember, pro style QB doesn't mean NFL talent. You seem to be having trouble with that.
And you get unhinged in your defense of poor QB play, in this offense.
Every time someone is critical of Armstrong's play, you are quick to defend him and excuse his poor decision making. What's the difference?
Dang, and I inserted some positives in my post.
The OP is not talking about Bill Callahan having Zac Taylor as his QB. So why are you bringing up any other QB's other than those that played for Riley. And is winning 8 or 9 games so good that it's an example of good.
If Riley can pick his QB, I would guess it's EXACTLY a QB with a prototypical NFL passing QB skillset. If a Riley QB is good, where does he end up (you know, the guy with the prototypical NFL passing QB skillset). So if Riley doesn't have a future NFL QB, how good do you think a Riley team will be? Why are you having trouble with that?
Of course the defense matters. Just like the running game, special teams, etc. We can't look at all things as being all equal except for the QB, too many variables. The seasonal win totals during Mannion's OrSU career proves just that.
I'll try one more time... Klatt did not say NFL caliber QB. Lots of college QBs control the pocket but don't sniff the NFL.
I am probably being overly sensitive, but it feels like you are setting the stage for "Pro Style offense doesn't work here" if Tanner Lee doesn't win 9 or more games this year. Now, as you rightly point out, there are many variables that will come into play.
The positives you throw in come at the very end, after pointing out that as long as Riley is our coach we can expect a roller coaster ride. And even then, the positives are we will win a minimum of 6 or 7 games with the ceiling being higher, and you like the Diaco hire. that's in 2 lines... the rest of the post was less than glowing. Or did I misinterpret that too?
Edit: probably my bigger frustration is that the OP is attempting to project optimism, and quite a few have dismissed that optimism, including yourself.
I know, it's a message board, and open for debate. This is the way it should be. I get that. I still get frustrated by it though, and that's on me.
Because he is the one that is always brought up when excuse making for Riley begins.
Secondly I don't excuse it. I just point out that even with his bad decision making he is the reason we won games.
But you guys throw every excuse under the sun out when something other than praise is said about Riley.
I'm surprised Dr. Tom hasn't been blamed for Riley's career yet.
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Erickson failed to win any Grey Cups. Although he did win two national championships, sadly he never reached the grand height of being a Grey Cup victor.
The point is that who cares if Riley doesn't stack up with Snyder, Osborne, or Erickson. Those are pretty stinking good coaches. None of that has to do with whether or not Riley can right the ship at Nebraska. Riley knows what he is doing and has a philosophy of how he wants to win. Now the issue is whether or not he can make it happen. I sure hope so because I'm tired of not winning championships.
