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OT - So it IS happening here

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Let's just say hypothetically ... a guy had worked for a three letter agency for a number of years. I'm going to share something that isn't a secret -- any clandestine activity he was involved with or had ACTUAL knowledge of would be covered by a classified non-disclosure agreement. The NDA would still be binding even AFTER retirement. So the idea that random guy (neighbor, barber, etc) has access to nefarious information is beyond hilarious.

I know I'd probably have to be a major donkey to think it was worth possibly spending decades in prison in order to gain cool points with my neighbor.

This is true.

But, doesn't keep people 100% quiet. Look at CNN or Fox News and all the former three letters and SEALs and stuff talking. My wife probably knows more than she should. But I probably wouldn't risk anything for brownie points on Rivals though. So I watch what I say and how I actually know it.
 
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Did I say that Obama is letting a person do that? A US citizen contributing to political campaigns isn't an "actionable target". You would have to actually intercept the people and tie it all together. Catching a half dozen Middle Eastern men at a time among thousands of Mexicans crossing the border is like finding a needle in a haystack.

You said " A retired CIA op that went to my church told me a year or so ago that they knew that there was a Muslim business man in TX that was dispatching vans to pick up young Middle Eastern men crossing the border from Mexico but the Obama admin wouldn't let them do anything."

So you have painted a picture of a known US person who is supporting terrorism (but who is not a mastermind or operational shooter), and Obama is just happy to sit there and let him continue his what we would call "facilitation network".

We're having people take off shoes and get body scans and pat downs all simply because they had the bad luck or need to buy an airline ticket, and you really think the bar is so high this guy in Texas is going to run free because Obama wills it?

Shit, it wouldn't even get to his level, a field agent could go out and interview this guy with nothing more than the SAC (special agent in charge) call.
 
Let's just say hypothetically ... a guy had worked for a three letter agency for a number of years. I'm going to share something that isn't a secret -- any clandestine activity he was involved with or had ACTUAL knowledge of would be covered by a classified non-disclosure agreement. The NDA would still be binding even AFTER retirement. So the idea that random guy (neighbor, barber, etc) has access to nefarious information is beyond hilarious.

I know I'd probably have to be a major donkey to think it was worth possibly spending decades in prison in order to gain cool points with my neighbor.
In fact he wouldn't share any info on his activities. In fact he wouldn't say where or when he had been in Europe, the middle east other than to say that he had been in Afghanistan for a time. That doesn't spill anything because its well known that we were in Afghanistan supporting the rebels there fighting the Soviets long before our latest involvement. And BTW, the guy is dying of a heart condition so I doubt that prison holds a very big concern for him. AGAIN WE JUST HAD SEVERAL GUYS INTERCEPTED IN MEXICO. So whatever guys. Believe what you want. Personally I found the guy credible.
 
In fact he wouldn't share any info on his activities. In fact he wouldn't say where or when he had been in Europe, the middle east other than to say that he had been in Afghanistan for a time. That doesn't spill anything because its well known that we were in Afghanistan supporting the rebels there fighting the Soviets long before our latest involvement. And BTW, the guy is dying of a heart condition so I doubt that prison holds a very big concern for him. AGAIN WE JUST HAD SEVERAL GUYS INTERCEPTED IN MEXICO. So whatever guys. Believe what you want. Personally I found the guy credible.

Credible as to what.

Its hardly some big CIA SAP program level of secret that the borders are potential rat lines. That's not in dispute. I think you and I agree there.

The controversial part of your post, was that we had ID'd a specific guy in Texas in shady facilitation activities, that Obama is turning a blind eye to. A guy that wouldn't need
 
So you have painted a picture of a known US person who is supporting terrorism (but who is not a mastermind or operational shooter), and Obama is just happy to sit there and let him continue his what we would call "facilitation network".

Did I say that he was supporting terrorism? Do we know that? Again, the assumption I have to make that these are just people immigrating to make a better life for their families. Isn't that the political narrative? I repeat, several Syrian men with stolen passports were just intercepted in Mexico. So we caught a few. How many with unknown intentions have made it in?
 
Credible as to what.

Its hardly some big CIA SAP program level of secret that the borders are potential rat lines. That's not in dispute. I think you and I agree there.

The controversial part of your post, was that we had ID'd a specific guy in Texas in shady facilitation activities, that Obama is turning a blind eye to. A guy that wouldn't need
So you don't believe that the current admin is turning a blind eye to illegal immigration?
 
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So....you've drastically railed down the impact of the story.

Its one thing to lead in with something that seems like a known terrorist facilitator has been vetted by CIA and Obama is just happy to let him be despite the agencies warning, and then expand upon the details and basically come back with a dude who know one really knows what he is doing, but he could be shady, and he's in Texas. Its kind of the difference between being guilty of a crime, and being a guy someone talks to because you happened to be close enough to the gas station when it happened.

The thing that makes no sense whatsoever, is that for President Obama to nix "action" against this guy, it would be vetted at several levels that this guy is bad juju. With you now saying he is little more than a suspect, no one would ever go to Obama for a vote up or down on him, in fact most guys who are vetted and pulled off the street as a threat don't have to go to the President for some kind of "go" order. That's within the purview of daily police power that FBI maintains, whether you are a terrorist or a kidnapper.
 
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So you don't believe that the current admin is turning a blind eye to illegal immigration?

I'm not fighting about immigration. I took issue with the specific line that Obama was letting a facilitator sit around in Texas, and you are doing your damndest to ignore the points at hand and change the subject.

The border is an issue, no doubt.
 
I'm not fighting about immigration. I took issue with the specific line that Obama was letting a facilitator sit around in Texas, and you are doing your damndest to ignore the points at hand and change the subject.

The border is an issue, no doubt.

If you want my distinct opinion, *all* administrations have basically ignored immigration.
 
I'm not fighting about immigration. I took issue with the specific line that Obama was letting a facilitator sit around in Texas, and you are doing your damndest to ignore the points at hand and change the subject.

The border is an issue, no doubt.
I never once said he was a "known" facilitator of terrorism. Not once. You jumped to that conclusion which frankly is a concern from the standpoint the guys he apparently is helping once they get their feet on US soil. I've got news for you. There are hundreds if not thousands of people in this country facilitating illegal immigration including some local governments and we don't do anything about it. Why would the administration view Middle Easterners different than any other ethnicity sneaking across the border? Logic would say that they could be a threat but then so could the thousands of them that have come in on student visas and then disappeared. THAT is why I mentioned student visas first and then brought up our borders.
 
I see you are an un-repentant ammo hoarder also. :)

Never understood this. Nothing against guns, love guns. Guys buy piles of guns, do not mind.

Terrorists are not invading your house. Having the best gun locker in the world doesn't really matter for the ISIS nut who is shooting up a movie theater or bus you are on, and you might have a pistol on your hip all that distance away from home.
 
"ISIL will not pose an existential threat to us. They are a dangerous organization like al Qaeda was, but we have hardened our defenses," Obama told CBS. "The American people should feel confident that, you know, we are going to be able to defend ourselves and make sure that, you know, we have a good holiday and go about our lives."
--Barack Obama, 21 hours ago.

The man has impeccable timing.. Last month he said ISIS had been contained...right before they shot up Paris. Then this..
 
I never once said he was a "known" facilitator of terrorism. Not once. You jumped to that conclusion which frankly is a concern from the standpoint the guys he apparently is helping once they get their feet on US soil. I've got news for you. There are hundreds if not thousands of people in this country facilitating illegal immigration including some local governments and we don't do anything about it. Why would the administration view Middle Easterners different than any other ethnicity sneaking across the border? Logic would say that they could be a threat but then so could the thousands of them that have come in on student visas and then disappeared. THAT is why I mentioned student visas first and then brought up our borders.

" You jumped to that conclusion which frankly is a concern from the standpoint the guys he apparently is helping once they get their feet on US soil. I've got news for you."

Well I have news for you. You were sold a bag of goods by your dying friend. A guy who is not a known facilitator of terrorism, just isn't going in front of the President for a "go/no go" order by the CIA, FBI, or insert three letter here. So if this guy in Texas is indeed a nobody, Obama's never heard of him and your friend is pulling your leg or spinning a little bit of a "I don't care for Obama" yarn. If he is somebody and his package was put in front of the President, then you've been arguing the wrong thing for the last page.

As noted before, the FBI has broad power to protect the nation, and every single thing they do and person they question or follow doesn't need really anything more than local empowerment from the broad guidance on high. For the guy to even get a sniff at the Presidential level, the back story would have to be waaaaay higher profile and waaaay higher confidence than the crap you are throwing out here.
 
Never understood this. Nothing against guns, love guns. Guys buy piles of guns, do not mind.

Terrorists are not invading your house. Having the best gun locker in the world doesn't really matter for the ISIS nut who is shooting up a movie theater or bus you are on, and you might have a pistol on your hip all that distance away from home.

I hoard ammo and guns. They kinda go together. Like peas and carrots as Mr. Gump would say.

I can't be at every movie theater, bus, etc. but I can (at the very least) defend my castle.
 
" You jumped to that conclusion which frankly is a concern from the standpoint the guys he apparently is helping once they get their feet on US soil. I've got news for you."

Well I have news for you. You were sold a bag of goods by your dying friend. A guy who is not a known facilitator of terrorism, just isn't going in front of the President for a "go/no go" order by the CIA, FBI, or insert three letter here. So if this guy in Texas is indeed a nobody, Obama's never heard of him and your friend is pulling your leg or spinning a little bit of a "I don't care for Obama" yarn. If he is somebody and his package was put in front of the President, then you've been arguing the wrong thing for the last page.

As noted before, the FBI has broad power to protect the nation, and every single thing they do and person they question or follow doesn't need really anything more than local empowerment from the broad guidance on high. For the guy to even get a sniff at the Presidential level, the back story would have to be waaaaay higher profile and waaaay higher confidence than the crap you are throwing out here.

Just to jump in, I think he said the Obama administration, not Obama himself.
 
Never understood this. Nothing against guns, love guns. Guys buy piles of guns, do not mind.

Terrorists are not invading your house. Having the best gun locker in the world doesn't really matter for the ISIS nut who is shooting up a movie theater or bus you are on, and you might have a pistol on your hip all that distance away from home.

You haven't been told? Government, despite leaving our guns alone for 240 years...is still coming. Mark the NRA's words. The military will come busting through your door any moment now for everyone's fking guns. Sigh..
 
Just to jump in, I think he said the Obama administration, not Obama himself.

The king runs the castle. Or if he doesn't he still gets the blame anyway, that's the pleasure of command and the way it should be.

Either way, a giant disrespect to think that whole agencies (primarily FBI) are sitting on their thumbs and watching ISIS roll in Texas because Obama administration wishes it. They would be traitors to their own oaths.
 
You haven't been told? Government, despite leaving our guns alone for 240 years...is still coming. Mark the NRA's words. The military will come busting through your door any moment now for everyone's fking guns. Sigh..

The Green Beret sitting next to me still gets his lulz from the whole Jade Helm thing.
 
In fact he wouldn't share any info on his activities. In fact he wouldn't say where or when he had been in Europe, the middle east other than to say that he had been in Afghanistan for a time. That doesn't spill anything because its well known that we were in Afghanistan supporting the rebels there fighting the Soviets long before our latest involvement. And BTW, the guy is dying of a heart condition so I doubt that prison holds a very big concern for him. AGAIN WE JUST HAD SEVERAL GUYS INTERCEPTED IN MEXICO. So whatever guys. Believe what you want. Personally I found the guy credible.

Sounds great. I'll go with my first-hand knowledge of the situation.

Hopefully, we can figure out the foreign policy plan before the next Rivals forum review with the Administration.
 
Never understood this. Nothing against guns, love guns. Guys buy piles of guns, do not mind.

Terrorists are not invading your house. Having the best gun locker in the world doesn't really matter for the ISIS nut who is shooting up a movie theater or bus you are on, and you might have a pistol on your hip all that distance away from home.

Oh, no need for gun cases or a gun locker, my 870 is behind the door, with 4 reds. of 00 buck and I'm always carrying.

I avoid crowds & gun free zones. I guess you could say breaking into my house would get you killed.
We live in a real small town, most folks carry, open or concealed. Shop lifting @ Walmart is about the only excitement, our town is like Mayberry and we like it that way. Small town America.
 
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I never once said he was a "known" facilitator of terrorism. Not once. You jumped to that conclusion which frankly is a concern from the standpoint the guys he apparently is helping once they get their feet on US soil. I've got news for you. There are hundreds if not thousands of people in this country facilitating illegal immigration including some local governments and we don't do anything about it. Why would the administration view Middle Easterners different than any other ethnicity sneaking across the border? Logic would say that they could be a threat but then so could the thousands of them that have come in on student visas and then disappeared. THAT is why I mentioned student visas first and then brought up our borders.
I think this administration and all before it view Middle Easterners differently because they are more likely to be terrorists in their view. But more importantly they arent useful for picking produce, packling meat, roofing, etc off the books.
 
This is why we will continue to have attacks in the US.


The man has impeccable timing.. Last month he said ISIS had been contained...right before they shot up Paris. Then this..

Its fascinating how much embarrassingly ridiculous rhetoric that has spewed out of that mans mouth in the last several years regarding terrorism/radical islam.
 
Just to jump in, I think he said the Obama administration, not Obama himself.
exactly.
The king runs the castle. Or if he doesn't he still gets the blame anyway, that's the pleasure of command and the way it should be.

Either way, a giant disrespect to think that whole agencies (primarily FBI) are sitting on their thumbs and watching ISIS roll in Texas because Obama administration wishes it. They would be traitors to their own oaths.
NOT ONCE did I imply that they were knowingly doing that. NOT ONCE. What the administration is doing is letting thousands of people with unknown intent or nationality enter and stay in this country illegally.
 
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Let me flip that logic on you. Since that conversation, the U.S. has been attacking and bombing ISIS more vigorously than ever, and yet "it" still happened. So...

drphil.jpg
But you are the one that made the statement Beav. I am following up on your question from a prior post when you questioned why the U.S. is involved when "it isn't happening here." Your statement is what is at issue. You are arguing with yourself on this. Now, you may have misspoken or not clearly stated your position, which is what I think happened, and if that's the case, then I now understand. But your previous comment that the U.S. shouldn't be involved because "it isn't happening here" was, in my opinion, terribly misguided, which is the reason I started the post.
 
exactly.

NOT ONCE did I imply that they were knowingly doing that. NOT ONCE. What the administration is doing is letting thousands of people with unknown intent or nationality enter and stay in this country illegally.

Well, to be fair, read this "a Muslim business man in TX that was dispatching vans to pick up young Middle Eastern men crossing the border from Mexico but the Obama admin wouldn't let them do anything".

That sounds like a situation where, a problem is known, FBI or CIA has a solution, and Obama admin canxes it.

You are telling me the point you were really trying to make is:

"the Obama immigration policy is terrible. We have no accountability of the border. The fellas at FBI and CIA who are hunting terrorists down, are having a harder time, then".

I can get behind that. But not the original wording, which sounds like a totally different scenario, if only by accident.

 
But you are the one that made the statement Beav. I am following up on your question from a prior post when you questioned why the U.S. is involved when "it isn't happening here." Your statement is what is at issue. You are arguing with yourself on this. Now, you may have misspoken or not clearly stated your position, which is what I think happened, and if that's the case, then I now understand. But your previous comment that the U.S. shouldn't be involved because "it isn't happening here" was, in my opinion, terribly misguided, which is the reason I started the post.

Lets also remember that traditionally, "its not happening here" was the basis of our war policy. Its the essence of what Washington told the public about foreign entanglements.

Even the greatest generation, didn't care to fight Hitler, until Pearl Harbor.
 
The king runs the castle. Or if he doesn't he still gets the blame anyway, that's the pleasure of command and the way it should be.

Either way, a giant disrespect to think that whole agencies (primarily FBI) are sitting on their thumbs and watching ISIS roll in Texas because Obama administration wishes it. They would be traitors to their own oaths.

I didn't get that out of his post whatsoever. Not taking sides for anyone, just giving an additional opinion.
 
Well, to be fair, read this "a Muslim business man in TX that was dispatching vans to pick up young Middle Eastern men crossing the border from Mexico but the Obama admin wouldn't let them do anything".

That sounds like a situation where, a problem is known, FBI or CIA has a solution, and Obama admin canxes it.

You are telling me the point you were really trying to make is:

"the Obama immigration policy is terrible. We have no accountability of the border. The fellas at FBI and CIA who are hunting terrorists down, are having a harder time, then".

I can get behind that. But not the original wording, which sounds like a totally different scenario, if only by accident.
I am just repeating what I was told by a guy that told me one time that he had been in the CIA. I knew he was retired from a government position but previously all he would say was that he had been in "federal law enforcement". Maybe he made it all up but I knew him for over a year and he wasn't a story teller.
 
I didn't get that out of his post whatsoever. Not taking sides for anyone, just giving an additional opinion.

Yah, I think his latest clarification puts me in the ballpark of where he was going with it although I don't think the original wording was great.
 
No matter what party is in charge, you cannot stop nut jobs. There will be more, some right or left winger, black, white, yellow, red, brown, religious zealot or atheist. If someone is hellbent on destruction, they will slip through.

Watching the news, it's showing moderate Muslims calling out the radicals. That's a big step in the right direction.

While I would normally agree with you, I think this attack suggests we're going the wrong direction. Syed Farook, by all accounts, was a normal American whom happened to be a Muslim. He was a college grad. He lived in the US all his life. He was a snowboarder. He loved the outdoors. And despite some of the media's portrayal of his workplace, he had a good job and was respected by his peers.

Its always been my belief that Islamic radicals would be virtually eradicated if they had some of the educational and professional opportunities of Americans. In contrary, this man was radicalized by a Spouse from Pakistan with ties to ISIS.

IMO, this whole situation is a step in the WRONG direction.
 
While I would normally agree with you, I think this attack suggests we're going the wrong direction. Syed Farook, by all accounts, was a normal American whom happened to be a Muslim. He was a college grad. He lived in the US all his life. He was a snowboarder. He loved the outdoors. And despite some of the media's portrayal of his workplace, he had a good job and was respected by his peers.

Its always been my belief that Islamic radicals would be virtually eradicated if they had some of the educational and professional opportunities of Americans. In contrary, this man was radicalized by a Spouse from Pakistan with ties to ISIS.

IMO, this whole situation is a step in the WRONG direction.
This guy wants to educate and give white collar jobs to the muslims.. Would it stop terror? maybe, but then you will be poor with no job and no way to feed your family. Which side would you rather be on? Keep them uneducated and contained in their sand hut over on the other side of the world.
 
Who are you talking to, and what are you talking about? You've got a lot of pent-up energy / frustrations. Your response on this issue, previously, was that the US shouldn't be involved because "it isn't happening here." We have yet another example of it "happening here." So, since there has been an "it" since the time of your it-isn't-happening-here post, are you now ok with military intervention overseas? That's all. You say that you don't have any problem with killing ISIS, but based upon your previous statement, it sounds like they have to be on US soil?
I don't normally comment on these knee jerk threads, but all these types of attacks on unarmed civilians are already happening here and are commonplace. Who are the culprits? Americans. How often does these events happen? Weekly. Mass shootings by college students, Christians, white guys, mentally ill people, white supremacists, disgruntled coworker.... a new mass shooting every week. It's worse than an ISIS beheading. It happens so often that we've become numb to them. So, instead of getting your bigot on you may actually discuss the root of the problem rather than just advocating arming everyone and bombing every country. But that's just me. I'm am good shot and a veteran. More guns in the hands of an unstable population will not stop everything. There's a reason the communities of the wild west outlawed the carrying of firearms.
 
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While I would normally agree with you, I think this attack suggests we're going the wrong direction. Syed Farook, by all accounts, was a normal American whom happened to be a Muslim. He was a college grad. He lived in the US all his life. He was a snowboarder. He loved the outdoors. And despite some of the media's portrayal of his workplace, he had a good job and was respected by his peers.

Its always been my belief that Islamic radicals would be virtually eradicated if they had some of the educational and professional opportunities of Americans. In contrary, this man was radicalized by a Spouse from Pakistan with ties to ISIS.

IMO, this whole situation is a step in the WRONG direction.

I think this point highlights three points that aren't often talked about in public circles.

1. Not everyone in the world is an American at heart, just waiting to be liberated. Kind of the Iraq War wrapped up in a bubble.

2. Lone wolf/homegrown is the new unsolvable wave of the future. You probably won't pre-emptively kill your neighbor.

3. Not all terrorists are guys that lack access to education or modern life. IE, terrorists are people too. Edit: Evil people, but people nonetheless

It is easy to think about fixing terrorism with an M-4 when you believe the opposite of the three points above. Its quite scary to think about everyday Joe's in your neighborhood just saying "f it".
 
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While I would normally agree with you, I think this attack suggests we're going the wrong direction. Syed Farook, by all accounts, was a normal American whom happened to be a Muslim. He was a college grad. He lived in the US all his life. He was a snowboarder. He loved the outdoors. And despite some of the media's portrayal of his workplace, he had a good job and was respected by his peers.

Its always been my belief that Islamic radicals would be virtually eradicated if they had some of the educational and professional opportunities of Americans. In contrary, this man was radicalized by a Spouse from Pakistan with ties to ISIS.

IMO, this whole situation is a step in the WRONG direction.

I like what you've posted, even used the thumbs up!
I'm always reminded of Timothy McVeigh, our own homegrown freak.

I'm hoping the moderate Muslims will loudly condem the radicals...this would help end the saying:
"Muslims are not terrorists, but it seems all terrorists are Muslims."
 
This guy wants to educate and give white collar jobs to the muslims.. Would it stop terror? maybe, but then you will be poor with no job and no way to feed your family. Which side would you rather be on? Keep them uneducated and contained in their sand hut over on the other side of the world.

You're brilliant.
 
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