OT: Don't Know IF This Covid Vaccine Article Is Accurate but IF TRUE Should Outrage People

Status
Not open for further replies.

RedCap

Nebraska Legend
Sep 29, 2001
71,957
15,197
113
standby lists exist in many metro areas, and many don't have age/comorbidity restrictions.
Well that's terriffic, then those areas doing that are on their game. It's not rocket science to have figured that out over the 9 months or so we've been waiting for approved vaccines. Organizations have had plenty of time to dry run things and work out any process kinks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John_J_Rambo

xrugger

Walk On
Aug 15, 2001
216
325
63
For those who think Florida is an example to follow must not live here. It is a complete cluster f***. The state government, thanks to DeSantis, washed their hands of attempting to coordinate the vaccination so each county and each recipient does it differently. The county in which I live at the moment first offered it first come, first serve to seniors and health care workers. Senior citizens camped out overnight to be in line. Most of them didn't get it because there were not near enough doses. They then did an online sign up. Much better but poorly advertised so sold out before i found out. I was ready for the next one. Sign up was run by a third party whose business is ticketing events. It was to start at 9 AM. Site wasn't available at 8:59. Tried immediately at 9 but site was already overloaded. It took 4 or 5 tries but I got in just after 9:01 and got a screen saying I was in line and to not refresh the screen or I'd lose my place. I had that screen up for 8 hours. I went to my wife's computer. They were sold out by 9:15 but didn't manage to inform anyone. Meanwhile, I was informed by the hospital in my other home state that I could schedule a vaccination and was given a list of available appointments. Unfortunately, I am 2000 miles away and not about to get on a plane. Covid-19 is to be taken seriously. I know three people who have died, one of which had no known co-morbidities other than age. I've a colleague, who just turned 50 who is a long hauler. Two months after a mild case he is still having fatigue and memory problems. No thanks.
 

shimiskywalker

Defensive Coordinator
Gold Member
Oct 15, 2002
7,930
14,895
113
I heard a significant amount of healthcare staff -- including doctors -- are refusing to take the vaccine. Probably a good choice given the fact that vaccine manufacturers were released from liability of side effects. Making the general populace guinea pigs for their research experiments tsk tsk.

Your side effect note isn't exclusive to this vaccine by the way.
 
Oct 17, 2002
68
68
18
Your side effect note isn't exclusive to this vaccine by the way.
And a government fund exists for people who do suffer serious side effects.

 

RedCap

Nebraska Legend
Sep 29, 2001
71,957
15,197
113
For those who think Florida is an example to follow must not live here. It is a complete cluster f***. The state government, thanks to DeSantis, washed their hands of attempting to coordinate the vaccination so each county and each recipient does it differently. The county in which I live at the moment first offered it first come, first serve to seniors and health care workers. Senior citizens camped out overnight to be in line. Most of them didn't get it because there were not near enough doses. They then did an online sign up. Much better but poorly advertised so sold out before i found out. I was ready for the next one. Sign up was run by a third party whose business is ticketing events. It was to start at 9 AM. Site wasn't available at 8:59. Tried immediately at 9 but site was already overloaded. It took 4 or 5 tries but I got in just after 9:01 and got a screen saying I was in line and to not refresh the screen or I'd lose my place. I had that screen up for 8 hours. I went to my wife's computer. They were sold out by 9:15 but didn't manage to inform anyone. Meanwhile, I was informed by the hospital in my other home state that I could schedule a vaccination and was given a list of available appointments. Unfortunately, I am 2000 miles away and not about to get on a plane. Covid-19 is to be taken seriously. I know three people who have died, one of which had no known co-morbidities other than age. I've a colleague, who just turned 50 who is a long hauler. Two months after a mild case he is still having fatigue and memory problems. No thanks.
Generally speaking it NEVER is a good idea for federal, state or local governments to try to organize something brand new like this. They should hire private expertise who has had the applicable experience and a proven track record in the required skills. In this case those skills would be logistics, process optimization and web development.

Remember how screwed up the initial launch of the Obamacare Website was? That should have been a lesson for everyone and they had a long lead time to get ready in this case with vaccine development starting way back last Spring. They could have easily anticipated an initial overload and started to develop lists for orderly vaccination of people months ago to mitigate a sudden initial overload.
 

Wasker77

Sophomore
Dec 23, 2014
1,422
927
113
Eastern Washington
These are experimental vaccines and those taking them are basically acting as the animal trials that were skipped. I believe that those who take the vaccine have to sign something saying they agree to be tracked for two years or something to measure side effects, etc. Don't quote me on that but pretty sure I heard that in an interview.

If you are under 65 and healthy, I think you're nuts to take the vaccine. If you're over 65 and healthy, I think your only slightly less nuts. If you're over 65 and unhealthy I think it makes more sense.
I guess I am nuts or should I say slightly less nuts. I got my shot two days ago. I did not sign anything that stated someone could track me for two years. I am a firm believer in every individual having the freedom to choose what is best for them. I promise not to ridicule anyone who does not take the vaccine and I hope in return the same goes for me in regard to my choice
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dinglefritz

Wasker77

Sophomore
Dec 23, 2014
1,422
927
113
Eastern Washington
The problem with the waste is largely the multi-dose vials. When you package vaccine such that there's say 10 doses in a vial and you only have 93 people show up the day they're supposed to, you're going to have some left over doses. Most of the places I know of in the midwest who have vaccine left over will call family members of healthcare workers to use the leftover doses. I have a sister-in-law in Lincoln who got vaccinated that way. She's older and is on an immunosuppressive drug for an autoimmune disease so that was a good thing.

The only places I've seen having issues with having to throw vaccine out were doing it because of ridiculous state rules on who gets the vaccine....New York...cough cough.
That is how I got vaccinated. My wife is a RN, but has not worked with direct patient care for years.(She is in organizational development at our local hospital and does orientations and other training of fellow RNs). She has been volunteering to give the vaccine shots for her fellow hospital employees. The hospital leadership has wanted to use RNs only to give the shots initially as they are developing the procedures and policies of giving out the vaccine. Anyway they had leftover vaccines so my wife called me to tell me to get to the hospital ASAP. I was on a chair-lift so I had to get to the top, race down the mountain, get my equipment off and jump in the car and travel the 11-12 miles down to the hospital. I got there pretty fast. (I just want to make note of the following. My wife checked with the pharmacist who is running the operation before calling me and he told her to get me there fast. I am 65. I had already registered and been approved for the vaccine as well).
 
Last edited:

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
26,248
21,346
113
For those who think Florida is an example to follow must not live here. It is a complete cluster f***. The state government, thanks to DeSantis, washed their hands of attempting to coordinate the vaccination so each county and each recipient does it differently. The county in which I live at the moment first offered it first come, first serve to seniors and health care workers. Senior citizens camped out overnight to be in line. Most of them didn't get it because there were not near enough doses. They then did an online sign up. Much better but poorly advertised so sold out before i found out. I was ready for the next one. Sign up was run by a third party whose business is ticketing events. It was to start at 9 AM. Site wasn't available at 8:59. Tried immediately at 9 but site was already overloaded. It took 4 or 5 tries but I got in just after 9:01 and got a screen saying I was in line and to not refresh the screen or I'd lose my place. I had that screen up for 8 hours. I went to my wife's computer. They were sold out by 9:15 but didn't manage to inform anyone. Meanwhile, I was informed by the hospital in my other home state that I could schedule a vaccination and was given a list of available appointments. Unfortunately, I am 2000 miles away and not about to get on a plane. Covid-19 is to be taken seriously. I know three people who have died, one of which had no known co-morbidities other than age. I've a colleague, who just turned 50 who is a long hauler. Two months after a mild case he is still having fatigue and memory problems. No thanks.
I've had to deal with the Florida department of health. That agency isn't the fault of any governor of that state regardless of party. The problem is that they've hired incompetent boobs who never leave state employment once they get a job and it's virtually impossible to fire a state employee. I agree that having state agencies in Florida's case distributing vaccine isn't a great thing but it's really the only option. South Dakota put hospitals in charge. Of course the CEO of Sanford in Sioux Falls was one of the first in line to get vaccinated along with Avera's business office personnel. :mad: It could be possible that they were getting leftover doses from multi-dose vials but it sure looked bad when that hit the airwaves. South Dakota's experience so far has been good other than that from what I'm hearing from healthcare professionals. They've got all of the nursing home patients and healthcare personnel who wanted vaccine vaccinated and are waiting on more dose to start other high risk citizens such as those on chemotherapy or dialysis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John_J_Rambo

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
26,248
21,346
113
Well that's terriffic, then those areas doing that are on their game. It's not rocket science to have figured that out over the 9 months or so we've been waiting for approved vaccines. Organizations have had plenty of time to dry run things and work out any process kinks.
States like South Dakota are having no problems with delivering vaccine. They've used their allotments and have vaccinated every long term resident and health professional that wanted vaccine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baxter48

John_J_Rambo

All-American
Jan 10, 2020
4,887
8,661
113
I've had to deal with the Florida department of health. That agency isn't the fault of any governor of that state regardless of party. The problem is that they've hired incompetent boobs who never leave state employment once they get a job and it's virtually impossible to fire a state employee. I agree that having state agencies in Florida's case distributing vaccine isn't a great thing but it's really the only option. South Dakota put hospitals in charge. Of course the CEO of Sanford in Sioux Falls was one of the first in line to get vaccinated along with Avera's business office personnel. :mad: It could be possible that they were getting leftover doses from multi-dose vials but it sure looked bad when that hit the airwaves. South Dakota's experience so far has been good other than that from what I'm hearing from healthcare professionals. They've got all of the nursing home patients and healthcare personnel who wanted vaccine vaccinated and are waiting on more dose to start other high risk citizens such as those on chemotherapy or dialysis.
SoDak experience sounds pretty similar to Colo

will be interesting to see how chemo vaccinations go. certainly hoping for the best for everyone
 
  • Like
Reactions: dinglefritz

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
26,248
21,346
113
Sorry, but there's just no way they can know that for sure yet. My understanding is that animal trials were skipped. Please provide evidence if they were not. The trials that were done were done on the super healthy and there is no way you can determine the longer term effects of a vaccine that was only just developed in the past 6 months, especially when it is being given to Joe Donuts whose 60 pounds overweight.

I would also say that if you have had Covid, chances are you have much longer immunity than any vaccine will provide you. Of the vaccines pre-Covid, the best provides 10 years or so.

As been said by others in this thread, to each his own. But my fear is that this is going to become mandatory for travel and many other things. One airline has said as much and Ticketmaster has also suggested they are going to require proof to buy tickets to events.

Dingle, I think that you have one of the more balanced viewpoints on this board, but you call people paranoid about this vaccine. I very well may be, but after seeing what has happened to our country in the past 10 months due to a disease with a less than 1% death rate, I can't help but question pretty much everything.
My spouse is a physician on the front lines of this and she assures me that all steps were followed. I've read multiple stories on the approval process for these vaccines and all of them state the same thing regarding how they sped up the process for approval. Subunit vaccines like the ones from Moderna and Pfizer are extremely safe and effective and similar products have been used in animals for decades.
 

RedCap

Nebraska Legend
Sep 29, 2001
71,957
15,197
113
Considering we've already vaccinated roughly 30 million people in the U.S. in the first 5 weeks vaccine was available 100 million should be easy.
CDC data says we've only vaccinated 14.3 million as of yesterday, some of them twice obviously. But yes I do think the ramp up will be significant.

Biden is coming in at a good time to be able to claim political credit for the big ramp up under way. Although that was about to happen regardless of who was president.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trojanhorse13

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
26,248
21,346
113
CDC data says we've only vaccinated 14.3 million as of yesterday, some of them twice obviously. But yes I do think the ramp up will be significant.
The CDC data lags the actual number vaccinated by weeks. We're giving over 940,000 doses per day according to one account I've read. One of Biden's points of emphasis on COVID was to improve the timeliness of reporting for the CDC. Like most federal agencies, they move like snails.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ExcellentBread

Antwill

Blackshirt
Dec 18, 2004
3,378
1,953
113
My spouse is a physician on the front lines of this and she assures me that all steps were followed. I've read multiple stories on the approval process for these vaccines and all of them state the same thing regarding how they sped up the process for approval. Subunit vaccines like the ones from Moderna and Pfizer are extremely safe and effective and similar products have been used in animals for decades.
"Experts" have been wrong A LOT this last year.

I'll continue with the skeptical/cautious/paranoid approach.
 

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
26,248
21,346
113
"Experts" have been wrong A LOT this last year.

I'll continue with the skeptical/cautious/paranoid approach.
I too am normally skeptical and cautious but I have a good deal of knowledge regarding vaccines, virology and epidemiology. The subunit vaccines such as the ones being produced by Pfizer and Moderna are some of the safest vaccines we've ever made. They work and they're very safe. The risk from vaccination even for young healthy people is thousands of times less than the risk from actually getting COVID. If you don't want to get vaccinated that's your choice. IF I had already had the virus I wouldn't get vaccinated unless I was on chemotherapy of some type or had some other kind of immunosuppression.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Antwill

jlb321

Defensive Coordinator
Aug 8, 2014
7,665
8,418
113
I've had to deal with the Florida department of health. That agency isn't the fault of any governor of that state regardless of party. The problem is that they've hired incompetent boobs who never leave state employment once they get a job and it's virtually impossible to fire a state employee. I agree that having state agencies in Florida's case distributing vaccine isn't a great thing but it's really the only option. South Dakota put hospitals in charge. Of course the CEO of Sanford in Sioux Falls was one of the first in line to get vaccinated along with Avera's business office personnel. :mad: It could be possible that they were getting leftover doses from multi-dose vials but it sure looked bad when that hit the airwaves. South Dakota's experience so far has been good other than that from what I'm hearing from healthcare professionals. They've got all of the nursing home patients and healthcare personnel who wanted vaccine vaccinated and are waiting on more dose to start other high risk citizens such as those on chemotherapy or dialysis.
is that the same Sanford CEO that blew a multimillion dollar merger with Intermountain Health after cocking off about not wearing a mask?

intermountain dodged a huge bullet by pulling the plug on that deal
 

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
26,248
21,346
113
is that the same Sanford CEO that blew a multimillion dollar merger with Intermountain Health after cocking off about not wearing a mask?

intermountain dodged a huge bullet by pulling the plug on that deal
I think that guy resigned a few weeks ago.
 
Jul 2, 2020
93
164
33
Vaccines are being wasted in States that can't decide the most woke methods to distribute.
Theyre paralyzed by their own wokery. Meanwhile, in Florida, the government gave the vaccines to the hospitals and said vaccinate as many as possible, here you go. And they did, and of course the woke were still upset because they've got an opinion on everything.
Gland you don’t have any opinions.
 

NorthwoodHusker

First Team All-Big Ten
Jun 20, 2019
3,518
1,671
113
I think multiple opinions are healthy. I would be lying if I said I had zero angst about getting the vaccine.

I think the problem a lot of us have with your post is that there are very good resources on effect and safety of the vaccines. It is published medical literature, not YouTube videos. There already is medical literature printed about damaging sequelae of the vaccine (the original papers have published some). There may be more to come. Our medical bodies have been very upfront about who the vaccines are contraindicated for at this time.

Just like any medicine it is not without a risk and there is going to be some air of uncertainty. That doesn’t give the go ahead to posit conspiracy or spread misinformation. This is a public health war that we have been losing far too long. Our culture will overwhelmingly romanticize a citizen putting boots on in a foreign land, risking their life to protect ours. But so many of those same people can’t be bothered to accept a remote risk to possibly protect their vulnerable neighbors, and worse, actually try to persuade people not to protect their community’s health by spreading unsound fallacy rather than objective fact.
I know of a very liberated big hearted guy, salt of the earth type, from a great family etc who think the vaccine is deadly. Kennedy family.
But, I know many people who don a uniform who would die for all these opinions to be expressed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dinglefritz

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
26,248
21,346
113
If it allows me to get on a plane by December to get to Europe for the holidays give me the shot 8 days a week
My wife just got her second dose and she still had to provide proof of a new negative COVID test in order to fly in to Massachussets to help my daughter move back to school for the spring semester. No doubt, proof of vaccination is coming in order to be able to get on an airplane and I'm probably in favor of it. There may be a way to provide proof of a titer at some point to COVID instead of proof of vaccination for those people who have had the live virus.

Pack your bags as long as China doesn't produce another "accidental" U.S. economy destroying pandemic. I wonder how many BiLLION masks China has sold to either the U.S. government, institutions or consumers. I know my household alone has probably bought 100 or more at an average cost of 1$/mask. That's about 10$ per person. Take that times half of our population at 175 million. That's 1.75 billion in mask sales alone to the U.S. Forget about the billions in testing kits, reagents, PPE gowns, shields, gloves, disinfectants etc. Virtually ALL of our chemical disinfectants are made in China now due to our environmental regulations.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: litespeedhuskerfan

Antwill

Blackshirt
Dec 18, 2004
3,378
1,953
113
My wife just got her second dose and she still had to provide proof of a new negative COVID test in order to fly in to Massachussets to help my daughter move back to school for the spring semester. No doubt, proof of vaccination is coming in order to be able to get on an airplane and I'm probably in favor of it. There may be a way to provide proof of a titer at some point to COVID instead of proof of vaccination for those people who have had the live virus.

Pack your bags as long as China doesn't produce another "accidental" U.S. economy destroying pandemic. I wonder how many BiLLION masks China has sold to either the U.S. government, institutions or consumers. I know my household alone has probably bought 100 or more at an average cost of 1$/mask. That's about 10$ per person. Take that times half of our population at 175 million. That's 1.75 billion in mask sales alone to the U.S. Forget about the billions in testing kits, reagents, PPE gowns, shields, gloves, disinfectants etc. Virtually ALL of our chemical disinfectants are made in China now due to our environmental regulations.
In the first paragraph you are advocating for communist style restrictions on travel and in the second you are lambasting China for having caused all this. Hmmm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bigred_b1624

RiLLLLLLLLey

Redshirt Freshman
Oct 14, 2017
694
571
93
The linked article from NBC claims a lot of Covid Vaccine doses are being wasted and thrown away. IF TRUE that would help explain the difference between the number of doses distributed to states (about 36 million) and the number of people who actually have been vaccinated (about 17 million). I really hope it's only a minor amount BUT hospitals don't want to share the actual data for obvious reasons so no one knows the magnitude of the problem.

NBC ARTICLE LINK
Healthcare workers are not "throwing it away." My lady is the manager of multiple healthcare clinics. And I know most of the doctors. And I'm on their listserv of medical updates.

The hard and true fact is this: Once a vial is removed from the freezer for injections, it can not be refrozen or stored. A lot of patients schedule a vaccination, and don't show up. Thus, they have a surplus that will essentially "go bad" if not used.

I was given very late notice last week that two patients hadn't shown for their appointments, and I was offered the vaccination, but I had to be there "like, now."

I dropped everything on short notice and busted my ass to get there before they closed. Got halfway there, and then the two patients showed up. God damnit.

Long story short: they're not deliberately wasting the vaccines. It's simply a matter that the unused portion of the vial HAS TO BE USED the same day.

I'm 42, healthy-ish, and have no underlying conditions. So, it wasn't exactly the end of the world. I actually have a chance to get one today. So, I guess I'll just sit around tapping my feet.
 

bingo65

Redshirt Freshman
Jun 18, 2020
837
632
93
Did they know the Clintons by any chance?
idk but
CDC data says we've only vaccinated 14.3 million as of yesterday, some of them twice obviously. But yes I do think the ramp up will be significant.

Biden is coming in at a good time to be able to claim political credit for the big ramp up under way. Although that was about to happen regardless of who was president.
irrespective Biden probably deserves credit for a least verbalizing vaccinations as a national priority. I dont think trump mentioned anything covid related in the last 3 months. I will give biden political credit because he came out and announced it daily. that may not be the most important thing in upping vaccinations but it helps.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: WHCSC

bingo65

Redshirt Freshman
Jun 18, 2020
837
632
93
"Experts" have been wrong A LOT this last year.

I'll continue with the skeptical/cautious/paranoid approach.
cautiousness is prudent but as a reminder......you put 10 things into your body every day that have not been studied for safety as much as these vaccines. but you dont hesitate to do it.
maybe because you dont know how much of what we consume is never really studied very rigorously or maybe because you just decided you were willing to take the risk because of the perceived benefit.
either way these vaccines probably offer more safety data than most things you put in your body in a day.
and some things we consume have actually been proven to hasten our time to death and many of us still choose to consume them. So go ahead and eat that half pound burger with french fries and a couple beers tonight then sit around on the couch but whatever you do, dont get a vaccine proven to prevent disease.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kidofSN

RedCap

Nebraska Legend
Sep 29, 2001
71,957
15,197
113
Healthcare workers are not "throwing it away." My lady is the manager of multiple healthcare clinics. And I know most of the doctors. And I'm on their listserv of medical updates.

The hard and true fact is this: Once a vial is removed from the freezer for injections, it can not be refrozen or stored. A lot of patients schedule a vaccination, and don't show up. Thus, they have a surplus that will essentially "go bad" if not used.

I was given very late notice last week that two patients hadn't shown for their appointments, and I was offered the vaccination, but I had to be there "like, now."

I dropped everything on short notice and busted my ass to get there before they closed. Got halfway there, and then the two patients showed up. God damnit.

Long story short: they're not deliberately wasting the vaccines. It's simply a matter that the unused portion of the vial HAS TO BE USED the same day.

I'm 42, healthy-ish, and have no underlying conditions. So, it wasn't exactly the end of the world. I actually have a chance to get one today. So, I guess I'll just sit around tapping my feet.
So why don't they have voluntary standby pools of people waiting to get the unused/unclaimed vaccinations? I'm sure with the demand for vaccine, there would be plenty of volunteers to be in standby pools. It's not rocket science to figure out ways how to minimize waste.
 

RedCap

Nebraska Legend
Sep 29, 2001
71,957
15,197
113
idk but

irrespective Biden probably deserves credit for a least verbalizing vaccinations as a national priority. I dont think trump mentioned anything covid related in the last 3 months. I will give biden political credit because he came out and announced it daily. that may not be the most important thing in upping vaccinations but it helps.
I don't think any president mentioning it at this point has a whole lot of effect on anything other than for making political points. Vaccination has had full publicity ever since the vaccine approvals in December so awareness is already maximized. The problem to date hasn't been getting enough people that want to be vaccinated, it's been the state to local supply chain getting enough doses delivered to points where they are administered. Yes, eventually the anti vaxxers will need to be convinced to get vaccinated but we're not even close to that point yet.
 

Mrs.Jeans15

Redshirt Freshman
May 5, 2018
625
1,013
93
idk but

irrespective Biden probably deserves credit for a least verbalizing vaccinations as a national priority. I dont think trump mentioned anything covid related in the last 3 months. I will give biden political credit because he came out and announced it daily. that may not be the most important thing in upping vaccinations but it helps.
Lmao


Must be a Plantation 46 member.
 

RiLLLLLLLLey

Redshirt Freshman
Oct 14, 2017
694
571
93
So why don't they have voluntary standby pools of people waiting to get the unused/unclaimed vaccinations? I'm sure with the demand for vaccine, there would be plenty of volunteers to be in standby pools. It's not rocket science to figure out ways how to minimize waste.
They try their best. They call patients on short notice. They never want to waste anything. Trust me. And it drives my lady insane when they do.

Actually, I don't think they've wasted any. If they didn't I'd already have my vaccination. And so would my parents.
 

RedCap

Nebraska Legend
Sep 29, 2001
71,957
15,197
113
They try their best. They call patients on short notice. They never want to waste anything. Trust me. And it drives my lady insane when they do.

Actually, I don't think they've wasted any. If they didn't I'd already have my vaccination. And so would my parents.
No, not only calling patients. That's fine of course BUT I'm thinking of actually having some standby people on site in a waiting room at the end of the day. No priority list requirement for those people in the waiting room, just willingness to wait for excess vaccine to be available for that day. That's what I'm talking about. And yes, of course, they'd have to social distance and wear masks in the waiting room, just like you have to do when you go to a grocery store.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RiLLLLLLLLey

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
26,248
21,346
113
In the first paragraph you are advocating for communist style restrictions on travel and in the second you are lambasting China for having caused all this. Hmmm.
Um no. Airline travel is NOT a God given right guaranteed by the constitution. There's a HUGE difference in requiring immunization for a voluntary flight versus being drug off to the work camp if you don't follow the party line although we're getting closer to that with the persecution of Trump's speech preceding the capitol riot.
 

Antwill

Blackshirt
Dec 18, 2004
3,378
1,953
113
Um no. Airline travel is NOT a God given right guaranteed by the constitution. There's a HUGE difference in requiring immunization for a voluntary flight versus being drug off to the work camp if you don't follow the party line although we're getting closer to that with the persecution of Trump's speech preceding the capitol riot.
And where's it stop, Dingle? If you are going to say that it's perfectly fine to require vaccinations unless it is blocking one from something that is guaranteed in the Constitution, you can make a person's world very small and his opportunities very limited. There are plenty of people (and a growing number, I'd say) who have legitimate and sincere reasons for refusing vaccinations. If one doesn't have the right to travel, attend school, work, or participate fully in society because he is not willing to take a vaccine, does he really have freedom? I don't think so.

I know that there are certain things that require vaccinations right now, but for the moment they are fairly limited. The more that is expanded, especially if it is to activities that are more normal and widespread like travel on a plane, the more you are impacting and limiting the freedoms of individuals unless they do things mandated by the state. That's almost never a good thing.

You're on a very slippery slope when you start requiring vaccinations in order to participate in activities that may not be protected by the Constitution, but are essential for one's ability to participate in society. Especially for a virus that is about as harmful as the flu for most of the population. I would make the argument that such restrictions are in violation of the Constitution as they are preventing a person's pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: c3o

Antwill

Blackshirt
Dec 18, 2004
3,378
1,953
113
cautiousness is prudent but as a reminder......you put 10 things into your body every day that have not been studied for safety as much as these vaccines. but you dont hesitate to do it.
maybe because you dont know how much of what we consume is never really studied very rigorously or maybe because you just decided you were willing to take the risk because of the perceived benefit.
either way these vaccines probably offer more safety data than most things you put in your body in a day.
and some things we consume have actually been proven to hasten our time to death and many of us still choose to consume them. So go ahead and eat that half pound burger with french fries and a couple beers tonight then sit around on the couch but whatever you do, dont get a vaccine proven to prevent disease.
How did you know I love Hotpockets?
 
  • Like
Reactions: RiLLLLLLLLey

dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
26,248
21,346
113
And where's it stop, Dingle? If you are going to say that it's perfectly fine to require vaccinations unless it is blocking one from something that is guaranteed in the Constitution, you can make a person's world very small and his opportunities very limited. There are plenty of people (and a growing number, I'd say) who have legitimate and sincere reasons for refusing vaccinations. If one doesn't have the right to travel, attend school, work, or participate fully in society because he is not willing to take a vaccine, does he really have freedom? I don't think so.

I know that there are certain things that require vaccinations right now, but for the moment they are fairly limited. The more that is expanded, especially if it is to activities that are more normal and widespread like travel on a plane, the more you are impacting and limiting the freedoms of individuals unless they do things mandated by the state. That's almost never a good thing.

You're on a very slippery slope when you start requiring vaccinations in order to participate in activities that may not be protected by the Constitution, but are essential for one's ability to participate in society. Especially for a virus that is about as harmful as the flu for most of the population. I would make the argument that such restrictions are in violation of the Constitution as they are preventing a person's pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.
I don't know of anybody who has their opportunities limited by not being able to get on an airplane without a vaccination. You're just being silly now. You have no RIGHT to get on an airplane unencumbered by whatever rules your airline or government might implement. Thank goodness for that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ExcellentBread
Status
Not open for further replies.