OT: Don't Know IF This Covid Vaccine Article Is Accurate but IF TRUE Should Outrage People

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dinglefritz

Nebraska Legend
Jan 14, 2011
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No, I have not reviewed all of their data. That is why I included a qualifier.

There are multiple doctors that have data available including a Dr. Zelenko. Has anyone watched the hearings in the senate chaired by Johnson? There were several Drs that testified. Again, judge for yourself.

My brother has taken hyroxychloroquine for well over 20 years for arthritis, no side effects. It is interesting that a local Dr and others have spoken about possible heart damage from HCQ but it is never mentioned, tested for or listed in anything for my brother.

And yes, I am terrible with the usage of the words as affect and effect. I can, however get their, there and they're correct.

Bottom line is, at best, there is conflicting data out there, discredit the person or not.
there is no doubt that Hydroxychloroquine was demonized by the media for no other reason than that Trump promoted it as a POTENTIAL therapy. As it turns out, it was of limited if any value in preventing or treating COVID. The anecdotal stories used to promote were well meaning at a time when people were grasping at straws to try to save lives.
 

dinglefritz

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Jan 14, 2011
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So it's okay for you to spread hyper-partisan propaganda without researching it, but you're setting ground rules for anyone who wants to criticize it?

If I don't comply, do I have to stay late and clap erasers?
I don't think that was hyper partisan. There's a lot of angst from people in both parties about vaccination.
 

NorthwoodHusker

First Team All-Big Ten
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2 deaths are being looked into in South Dakota. They both died within 24 hours of getting the vaccine.
 

dinglefritz

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The CDC recommendation to vaccinate people if they've already had COVID IMO is probably going to lead to more serious reactions to the vaccine. It would appear that one of the deaths could in fact be in a convalescing nursing home patient. The article you linked states it is was not due to the vaccine, but I think it might be a little premature to make that determination. I would NEVER want a loved one who just got over COVID to take the vaccine. I guessing the risk of a hypersensitivity reaction to the vaccine might be much higher at that point.
 
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Antwill

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Dec 18, 2004
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Getting COVID is over 5000X more dangerous to the average citizen than getting the vaccine. Good gracious there are some REALLY stupid paranoid people in this country.

Sorry, but there's just no way they can know that for sure yet. My understanding is that animal trials were skipped. Please provide evidence if they were not. The trials that were done were done on the super healthy and there is no way you can determine the longer term effects of a vaccine that was only just developed in the past 6 months, especially when it is being given to Joe Donuts whose 60 pounds overweight.

I would also say that if you have had Covid, chances are you have much longer immunity than any vaccine will provide you. Of the vaccines pre-Covid, the best provides 10 years or so.

As been said by others in this thread, to each his own. But my fear is that this is going to become mandatory for travel and many other things. One airline has said as much and Ticketmaster has also suggested they are going to require proof to buy tickets to events.

Dingle, I think that you have one of the more balanced viewpoints on this board, but you call people paranoid about this vaccine. I very well may be, but after seeing what has happened to our country in the past 10 months due to a disease with a less than 1% death rate, I can't help but question pretty much everything.
 
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NebChicago

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That's true for sure that about 30% to 40% of healthcare workers are refusing the vaccine. Anecdotally, my own doctor confided to me that half of her staff refused without giving any reason. She was completely befuddled by that. But that's fine, that's their choice. No one should be forced.

What's criminal though IMO is if they're holding on to that unused vaccine or wasting it and not giving it to other people who want. No vaccine doses should be wasted and they should have lists of standby people who want to get the vaccine on a moments notice. Anybody who refuses the vaccine should no longer be on the priority list with any vaccine reserved for them. You hesitate and you lose out immediately to someone who wants it.
I don’t believe this to be true. I know of a massive IDN (large hospital system) and they have only seen a <1% decline rate in their employees. And interviews with those folks indicated they wanted to see what effects their fellow clinicians and employees felt
 

TruHusker

Offensive Coordinator
Sep 21, 2001
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So it's okay for you to spread hyper-partisan propaganda without researching it, but you're setting ground rules for anyone who wants to criticize it?

If I don't comply, do I have to stay late and clap erasers?

There are obviously several opinions on all of this. So far, that's the great thing about our country, we get to decide for ourselves. Perhaps you have the market cornered in truth and would like to share it? Or is it easier to just say what I shared is wrong because I didn't check out every detail and clearly stated I did not. Did you check out everything Fauci said, or the CDC or the WHO? If you did I am sure you would find inconsistencies at best.
 

NebChicago

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Oct 14, 2009
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I find it concerning that conspiracies about the vaccine causing sterilization of women were put out there by anti-vaccine ppl. Then those concerns are tamped and another conspiracy is pluming under the door cracks of the fringy internet. Seems like there’s an agenda
 

John_J_Rambo

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fiance is an infusion nurse in an oncology clinic. she's so far held off on the shot, but all of her co-workers (nurses) have gotten it.

said just last night that the doctors she works with, who'd previously been dubious of giving the vaccine to their cancer patients, are now moving forward with it based on additional data they'd been exposed to.

fiance is getting round 1 today.
 

NebChicago

Redshirt Freshman
Oct 14, 2009
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fiance is an infusion nurse in an oncology clinic. she's so far held off on the shot, but all of her co-workers (nurses) have gotten it.

said just last night that the doctors she works with, who'd previously been dubious of giving the vaccine to their cancer patients, are now moving forward with it based on additional data they'd been exposed to.

fiance is getting round 1 today.
Mazel tov!
 
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NikkiSixx

Recruiting Coordinator
Sep 14, 2013
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You can tell yourself that but it typically takes 7-10 years to develop a vaccine. To contend that they didn't "skimp on testing" is ridiculous on its face. Plus, mRNA vaccines have never been used by humans before and one of the developers has never developed any vaccine before. There's a reason so many health professionals are opting out.
From what I have read, you are correct on the mRNA vaccines.. that tech has never been used before, and specifically Moderna has never had any positive outcome of that tech, yet have a high riding IPO with the stock price as it's main metric for success. That is dangerous in my opinion. Both the vaccines being administered in the US are mRNA ones, a technology that hasn't been used before.

Add to that, traditional vaccines (like the Chinese made Sinovac) are running only 70% efficient, if one can believe those numbers, and in Indonesia where they are rolling out that vaccine, they are giving it to kids first. They say that the vaccine is not effective for those people who are older with comorbidities, and actually dangerous to those older individuals. So if you think about that, it means that vaccine is basically useless for people at risk.

I was personally pro vaccine, but starting to have some second thoughts about it.
 

WHCSC

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Feb 4, 2002
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I find it concerning that conspiracies about the vaccine causing sterilization of women were put out there by anti-vaccine ppl. Then those concerns are tamped and another conspiracy is pluming under the door cracks of the fringy internet. Seems like there’s an agenda
Can't imagine why
bill-gates-780x523.jpg
 
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schuele

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There are obviously several opinions on all of this. So far, that's the great thing about our country, we get to decide for ourselves. Perhaps you have the market cornered in truth and would like to share it? Or is it easier to just say what I shared is wrong because I didn't check out every detail and clearly stated I did not. Did you check out everything Fauci said, or the CDC or the WHO? If you did I am sure you would find inconsistencies at best.
No, I don't. Which is why I don't blindly copy and paste this kind of crap here while preemptively wagging my finger at anyone who might dare to criticize it.

And oh by the way, you accusing anyone of thinking they've cornered the market on truth is absolutely hilarious.
 

ridge22

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Oct 19, 2004
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giphy.gif


Or as Mark Twain popularized the quote most attributed to the Prime Minister of Great Britain, Benjamin Disraeli, “there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics.” The quote is meant to highlight the deceiving but persuasive power of numbers.

73.6% Of All Statistics Are Made Up
5652.strip.print.gif


9KifeoC.png
 
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TheNewNU

First Team All-Big Ten
Dec 27, 2014
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Vaccines are being wasted in States that can't decide the most woke methods to distribute.
Theyre paralyzed by their own wokery. Meanwhile, in Florida, the government gave the vaccines to the hospitals and said vaccinate as many as possible, here you go. And they did, and of course the woke were still upset because they've got an opinion on everything.
DeSantis 2024 (If 45 decides to not run)
 
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RedCap

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I don’t believe this to be true. I know of a massive IDN (large hospital system) and they have only seen a <1% decline rate in their employees. And interviews with those folks indicated they wanted to see what effects their fellow clinicians and employees felt
Well that's been reported in the national news. Your personal experience may vary of course. Anecdotally I know of several people in healthcare that have declined. Mystery to me why people decline but you can even see a lot of anti vaxxer comments on this forum.

Some hospital systems also may have employee policies that differ - some being lax about requiring vaccination and others being much more forceful. So I think it varies.
 

lbarnessix

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Jan 24, 2007
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I can tell you about my experience with the vaccine, that’s all I’ve got. Pain level, a little more than a normal shot, but not bad. Residual pain - a day or two. No other side effects. Have had both doses, second shot (area) hurt a little more/longer. My antibody titer (both IGG and Total) - higher than I expected (two weeks after second dose). Will probably check again in 90 days.

My titers are higher than most coworkers who actually had the virus. Pleasantly surprised by the overall experience.
 
Oct 17, 2002
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There are obviously several opinions on all of this. So far, that's the great thing about our country, we get to decide for ourselves. Perhaps you have the market cornered in truth and would like to share it? Or is it easier to just say what I shared is wrong because I didn't check out every detail and clearly stated I did not. Did you check out everything Fauci said, or the CDC or the WHO? If you did I am sure you would find inconsistencies at best.

I think multiple opinions are healthy. I would be lying if I said I had zero angst about getting the vaccine.

I think the problem a lot of us have with your post is that there are very good resources on effect and safety of the vaccines. It is published medical literature, not YouTube videos. There already is medical literature printed about damaging sequelae of the vaccine (the original papers have published some). There may be more to come. Our medical bodies have been very upfront about who the vaccines are contraindicated for at this time.

Just like any medicine it is not without a risk and there is going to be some air of uncertainty. That doesn’t give the go ahead to posit conspiracy or spread misinformation. This is a public health war that we have been losing far too long. Our culture will overwhelmingly romanticize a citizen putting boots on in a foreign land, risking their life to protect ours. But so many of those same people can’t be bothered to accept a remote risk to possibly protect their vulnerable neighbors, and worse, actually try to persuade people not to protect their community’s health by spreading unsound fallacy rather than objective fact.
 

RedCap

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The key thing to keep in mind is that all risks need to be weighed against other risks or the risk of doing nothing.

For example, of course there's some (not great IMO) longer term risk of getting the vaccine. But it also needs to be weighed against the risk of not getting the vaccine and the risk of potential long term Covid effects after you've recovered. There's a lot of speculation that having Covid could have some serious long term consequences for your health way down the road even if you had only a minor Covid infection.

The longterm consequences/implications are just as unknown at this point or more serious for having Covid than for vaccines preventing serious Covid infections.

As I've stated many times, there just is no Nirvana of zero risks. Every action/decision carries some risk. Pick the path you're comfortable with but it's not going to be entirely risk free.
 

drubendall

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Apr 18, 2004
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I don't know why it's controversial. If you want to get the vaccine and have no concerns or are at least willing to deal with any possible adverse side effects, go ahead, no one cares and no one is stopping you.

If you trust your immune system to ward it off which is what most people have done, then do that. No one cares here either. Do, don't do. Viruses, diseases and death are a sad part of the human condition. Life goes on.
 

John_J_Rambo

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I don't know why it's controversial. If you want to get the vaccine and have no concerns or are at least willing to deal with any possible adverse side effects, go ahead, no one cares and no one is stopping you.

If you trust your immune system to ward it off which is what most people have done, then do that. No one cares here either. Do, don't do. Viruses, diseases and death are a sad part of the human condition. Life goes on.
I agree with you, with one caveat:

if this vaccine is to be a requirement for travel, large event attendance, etc., we're dealing with an entirely different ball of wax.
 

drubendall

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I agree with you, with one caveat:

if this vaccine is to be a requirement for travel, large event attendance, etc., we're dealing with an entirely different ball of wax.
yeah, I am concerned about that. Private businesses forcing citizens to consume a product they don't feel entirely comfortable with in order to use their service.

I know, I know. This is a free country, so don't tell a private company how to run it. I wouldn't dream, especially when I can just as easily start up my own major airline or professional sports league if I don't like their rules.
 

HuskerHackFraud

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Apr 18, 2008
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This doesn't surprise me at all, this vaccine was mostly about the money. The more vaccines created and distributed = more money made.
 
Oct 17, 2002
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I agree with you, with one caveat:

if this vaccine is to be a requirement for travel, large event attendance, etc., we're dealing with an entirely different ball of wax.
It will be the free market at work. Zero chance something like that would be written into laws but a company definitely has the right to enforce it, though I can’t imagine too many would; especially essential services. You might see vaccine flights and non vaccine flights just like we had smoking sections in restaurants. Entertainment venues certainly may require it depending on the interest of the performers and their health risk. I really wouldn’t have a problem with any of that, but I wouldn’t expect too much of it.
 

John_J_Rambo

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It will be the free market at work. Zero chance something like that would be written into laws but a company definitely has the right to enforce it, though I can’t imagine too many would; especially essential services. You might see vaccine flights and non vaccine flights just like we had smoking sections in restaurants. Entertainment venues certainly may require it depending on the interest of the performers and their health risk. I really wouldn’t have a problem with any of that, but I wouldn’t expect too much of it.
I'm not sure 'fear of retribution in the form of frivolous lawsuits' is exactly the free market at work.
 

RedCap

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It will be the free market at work. Zero chance something like that would be written into laws but a company definitely has the right to enforce it, though I can’t imagine too many would; especially essential services. You might see vaccine flights and non vaccine flights just like we had smoking sections in restaurants. Entertainment venues certainly may require it depending on the interest of the performers and their health risk. I really wouldn’t have a problem with any of that, but I wouldn’t expect too much of it.
Right or wrong, we can all argue a point of view, but some countries are going to demand to see proof of vaccination before allowing people to travel into their countries. Non vaccinated people may face a quarantine period if they're allowed in. That's almost guaranteed future practice for some countries.
 
Oct 17, 2002
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I'm not sure 'fear of retribution in the form of frivolous lawsuits' is exactly the free market at work.
Lawsuits unilaterally directed a company for someone catching illness in a venue? Almost impossible to prove and not sure there is any basis without supporting laws. OSHA may step in and require the venue to protect their workers but this can be done with masking and environmental hygiene, I would think.
 
Oct 17, 2002
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Right or wrong, we can all argue a point of view, but some countries are going to demand to see proof of vaccination before allowing people to travel into their countries. Non vaccinated people may face a quarantine period if they're allowed in. That's almost guaranteed future practice for some countries.
Probably. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. TBH I can’t even imagine how traveling internationally works right now though I know people do it.
 

Mack In Motion

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Jun 20, 2001
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I don't know why it's controversial. If you want to get the vaccine and have no concerns or are at least willing to deal with any possible adverse side effects, go ahead, no one cares and no one is stopping you.

If you trust your immune system to ward it off which is what most people have done, then do that. No one cares here either. Do, don't do. Viruses, diseases and death are a sad part of the human condition. Life goes on.

Agreed.

However, what "protects others" (the overarching mantra of the last 9 months) more than being vaccinated?

Sure as hell not wearing a mask or quarantining healthy people.
 

John_J_Rambo

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Lawsuits unilaterally directed a company for someone catching illness in a venue? Almost impossible to prove and not sure there is any basis without supporting laws. OSHA may step in and require the venue to protect their workers but this can be done with masking and environmental hygiene, I would think.
carnival cruise lines is facing a class action suit already for 'exposing' people to the virus:

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...lleges-cruise-exposed-passengers-to-covid-19/

there are dozens more examples of suits currently active alleging similar or less egregious activity.
 

The_Glove_Man

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You guys and your outrage. Hilarious. You know, don't you, that the vaccines don't come in single doses, right? The vials contain many doses, and once you thaw them, you have to use them or waste them. You're not always going to have exactly as many patients as you have doses in a vial. Not every patient is going to show up for their appointment. Some waste is expected.
 
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RedCap

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You guys and your outrage. Hilarious. You know, don't you, that the vaccines don't come in single doses, right? The vials contain many doses, and once you thaw them, you have to use them or waste them. You're not always going to have exactly as many patients as you have doses in a vial. Not every patient is going to show up for their appointment. Some waste is expected.
Well the key word is "some". Nothing is perfect planning for sure. BUT you can also minimize waste by arranging to have people waiting on standby to be available to get the days unused doses. More than a few people I know would welcome being able to volunteer to be in a standby pool toward the end of each day. Much better than throwing doses away.
 
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John_J_Rambo

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Well the key word is "some". Nothing is perfect planning for sure. BUT you can also minimize waste by arranging to have people waiting on standby to be available to get the days unused doses. More than a few people I know would welcome being able to volunteer to be in a standby pool toward the end of each day. Much better than throwing doses away.
standby lists exist in many metro areas, and many don't have age/comorbidity restrictions.
 

mikecanale

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The linked article from NBC claims a lot of Covid Vaccine doses are being wasted and thrown away. IF TRUE that would help explain the difference between the number of doses distributed to states (about 36 million) and the number of people who actually have been vaccinated (about 17 million). I really hope it's only a minor amount BUT hospitals don't want to share the actual data for obvious reasons so no one knows the magnitude of the problem.

NBC ARTICLE LINK
You should do what you think best for yourself, but if you don't get it, don't expect to have the same freedom of access to public venues as people who did. That's only fair as I see it. Just as there are consequences for getting the vaccine, there will be consequences (socially ones included) for not getting it.
 
Oct 17, 2002
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carnival cruise lines is facing a class action suit already for 'exposing' people to the virus:

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...lleges-cruise-exposed-passengers-to-covid-19/

there are dozens more examples of suits currently active alleging similar or less egregious activity.

Didn’t consider thcruises, are you a lawyer? Any merit to that case?

I still think burden of proof would be nearly impossible at this juncture since the contagion is so widespread.

I could definitely see cruises making vaccination mandatory given their clientele.
 
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