Keyshawn gone
- Thread starter Bill_Callahan2.0
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Props to Key for this. I always thought he was a good man, all the way back tonwhen he used to block downfield. My guess is that if jr does get it in order he will be back at NU again because i doubt key lets him go back on his word and attend another school.
He wasnt playong this season anyway.
He wasnt playong this season anyway.
We might have agreed once or twice in the past but honestly I don't remember that happening. With that said, you have actually changed my view slightly on this.
I grew up around the NY Jets and even though I was in college when Keyshawn was drafted I heard the stories from people who "were there." He deserved the nickname "Meshawn." For those that don't know, he was called that by not only the national media but by his teammates - writing a book ("just give me the damn ball") after his rookie season didn't help. He was known as a relentless worker but was also known for partying his butt off (burning the candle at both ends with a little chemical help) and generally being oblivious to how his attitude and behavior was alienating him from those around him (to say it kindly).
You have to assume he has grown in the 20 years since then but from delusional a hole with no aweness of how people around him perceived him to father of the year is a bit of a stretch.
I'm sure he loves his son and in his heart thinks he is doing the right thing.
Where you have turned my head a bit is when I first heard this I thought like father like son. But now I think...damn son...sucks to have a dad that is still consumed with controlling everything, making himself the center of attention and not letting you grow up.
You want this to be horrible so badly.
A dad sees his son going down the wrong path and slaps his ass where it hurts. It wasnt just the weed.
He isnt the dad that threatens the xbox being taken away then doesnt take it away.
We could use more dads like sr. Period.
No...don't want this to be horrible...this is a real kid with real issues to deal with...
On the flip side...and lets be honest...you want to find the good in this story don't you! I didn't use a question mark because so many of you have spun this to find not just a silver lining but a gold one.
Here is what we know without any hearsay, rumor, he said/she said or whatever: the kid did something(s) that led to his (possibly temporary) dismissal. So something NOT good did happen.
There are so many factors, most we will never know, that led to this bad thing happening. Yet, how blessed are you guys that daddy is father of the year and stepped in...especially when it required junior to leave the program.
Wait a second! Did he just become his father? I mean he is father of the year so that must mean he had no influence over his upbringing because if father of the year had been just that then things would never have led to this (unless your position is that the kid was so rotten to the core that father of the year couldn't have done anything more prior).
Listen, I hope things work out for the family. I also understand people make mistakes...I have made plenty. You hope people grow from them. However, this painting a picture of Senior as some super father is a bit ridiculous.
That's exactly what I thought when I read that he was pulling him out of school. I remembered Keyshawn Sr. being a showboat and making the game about him more than his team. Was he thinking "I can't embarrass the family name or the institution or pro team I'm playing for?" Hell no. How about understanding that your kid is 18 years old and is going to make some mistakes...just as you did? He made mistakes and no one drug his ass out of school.
His kid isn't embarrassing 'the family name' or Riley or the University of Nebraska. He's just a kid that might need some guidance, but doesn't need to be humiliated by being drug out of school and brought back home to go the JUCO route for a semester. If Key Sr. would have thought about this more, he would have realized that this is a part of growing up. Learning from your mistakes and moving on from them. I think you are right...he was making it more about him as Parent of the Year when he should have just said "How can I best help my son learn a valuable lesson from this?"
But I guess him pulling him out of school and bringing him home is better than being a completely non-participating parent and allowing him to flounder on his own. But there is middle-ground.
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I just dont think you know everything about the situation. Weed wasnt the only factor.
You say you want key to have his son learn from his mistakes? Thats exactly what hes doing. Maybe he knows his son better than we do and he knows that leaving him as a hot shot at UNL this year will not enable him to learn from his mistakes?
I have changed my opinion with regards to KJJ returning. I no longer believe he does. With that said, I am told that the decision was made in conjunction with KJJs ability to withdraw from classes before it went down as incomplete. If I am not mistaken, had it gone much longer, the grades would have not been withdrawn they would be Incomplete and I believe that grade affects GPA and eligibility.
If you couple the grade situation, the marijuana and the apparent lack of commitment in the S&C room, the decision to get out while he could. The embarrassment of daddy pulling you out of school would trump the embarrassment of being ruled academically ineligible. Being ruled academically ineligible could have affected his ability to transfer to another D1 school in January.
So why would he want to go to another school where the same problem could persist? Im not saying you are wrong in that grades and S&C factored into this decision because it did... but why would that mean he wont come back ( granted he gets his act together, which he may not)?
Sorry I was unclear. I don't think the grades and the S&C are why he isn't coming back. I just changed my mind and now don't think he is returning.
By leaving before he was ineligible he left the door open to transfer without restrictions, and potentially going to a JUCO for a year and having to get his associates degree.
The timing was calculated to avoid a potentially more embarrassing situation come August. IMHO.
Not sure, probably leaning toward yes right now. I do think Senior, with a little help from Riley, made sure that it was at least an option based on the timing.
I think Ellobo is missing the Mike Riley aka Head Coach factor in all this. Jr. not being part of the program wasn't just dad's call. Coach wasn't liking where things were going either and really that's all that matters that's equally as important as dad bringing him home. It's not about dad of the year or whatever, it's about coach and dad working together for the well being of the kid.
Not returning because he doesn't like it here as much as he thought he would? Not getting along with teammates and/or coaches? Or would rather stay on the west coast going forward?
I haven't heard anything specific. Just in reading comments from Sr it appears to be more to do with KJJ's work ethic and want to. I think Sr has a lot of respect for Riley and was embarrassed by how his son behaved. I believe it will come down to if Sr trusts that KJJ has truly changed and I don't think 5 months at home is enough time to get to that point.
I'm not missing this one bit...in fact, it is a part of my thinking this casting senior as father of the year is ridiculous. The only reason I didn't bring this up is because I don't know if this was more a Riley call or a Key call. My gut tells me this was more Riley and what senior is doing is damage control.
Lot of pessimistic speculation IMO. Another factor is Sr. and Coach Riley's relationship that dates back to before there was a Jr. If you factor that in, the decision appears to be a mutual partnership. I know Sr. was a straight shooter with his son coming out the spring, not as public, but for us locally we saw it. Doesn't surprise me one bit that being substandard for Sr. factored into all this. Doesn't mean he was making it all about himself. Heck probably would have forced him to go to USC if that were the case.
I'm not sure this is purely (or mostly, even) a Riley call... our top returning receiver was also busted for pot in May, and he hasn't been shown the door. I would think Riley would try to show some consistency in how he would treat both situations.
This leads me to believe it is a call between both KJSr and Riley.
I'll chime in. I insinuated it in an earlier post, but I believe Riley made the call to Sr because of their friendship. I believe Riley didn't want his friend embarrassed and didnt want the negative attention it could have brought Nebraska. If Joe SS from South Dakota is declared academically ineligible the story goes away in a week or so. If Keyshawn Johnson's highly recruited son gets booted, it's got a longer shelf life. Additionally, Keyshawn Sr looks like a good dad to 80% or more of the people and the story goes away and doesn't reflect badly on Nebraska.
I am mostly in agreement with Tuco. However, I don't think Riley saved Jr.'s butt just because of a relationship with Keyshawn. If Joe SS from South Dakota is doing the same thing and a phone call and a mutual parting of the ways would help "Joe" out, I think Riley does the same thing. In this way Riley is a stand up guy.
Some people just aren't ready for the college life...especially when it involves the spotlight like Nebraska football. That doesn't make Jr. or Sr. a bad guy. If anything, it ought to tell us that hanging on the tweets of these kids is a bit ridiculous.
Some people just aren't ready for the college life...especially when it involves the spotlight like Nebraska football. That doesn't make Jr. or Sr. a bad guy. If anything, it ought to tell us that hanging on the tweets of these kids is a bit ridiculous.
KJS saw his kid making some of the same mistakes he did as a young man and decides to step in and try to correct him. Good for him. Whether or not KJS was a selfish player in the NFL is irrelevant. This is more about a dad trying to guide his kid through rough water. I would hope to hell the rest of you would do the same thing rather than let him just flame out on his own. It's called being a parent. KJJ will be 18 shortly if not already and if he feels like it he can take off and do as he darned well pleases. IF he wants Papa's continued financial support though he'll do what Papa wants and toe the line. That's reasonable. That's not controlling.
I keep telling you guys, transitioning to college in January is NOT EASY. If it were my kid, I would do everything I could to tell them to finish up their senior year and be a kid while they still can. I struggled my ass off as a freshman, all new location, all new friends, tons of things to figure out.
And I didn't have to start at semester, I got to have the summer for that long goodbye to all your friends and family, to start getting ready for it. People get lonely and depressed and homesick and they make some bad choices. Not everyone copes by holing up in the film room alone like Gebbia does.
It's about the same as the conversation my father and I had after my first year at NU. He pretty much let me know I was getting one more semester and if it wasn't very different from my first two, it was my last and I could move out and go figure out what to do with my life on my own time and own dime. I didn't make that particular mistake again. Good for Sr for stepping in and having his son's back enough to reel him in and sit him down and say, "I'm not going to sit idly by and watch you choose that path for yourself."
I bet all of us who went to college know a couple dudes per dorm floor who got super depressed and didn't make the adjustment to college, and then eventually one day they dropped out. That's HARD on a 17 or 18 year old kid to leave everything they know in the dead of winter and come try to be somebody new in a high pressure situation.
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With all due respect, that's complete BS. LP was kicked off the team by TO. But the athletic department sent him down to the Meininger Clinic in Kansas, which is sort of the Mayo Clinic for psychological issues. He was there from Monday following his Sunday attack on KM through the following Friday (at probably $10,000 + per day). The doctors there concluded that the best way to treat him was to put him on a rigorous plan of mental health treatment, with goals, both mental and academic, that he had to meet on a weekly basis. They also concluded that since football was the most important thing in his life, he had to be given the carrot of being allowed to return to the team for meeting all of his goals in the treatment plan. The clinic contacted TO and proposed the treatment plan, including the possibility of LP's returning to the team. TO initially rejected that possibility. The doctors tried again (I have been told by one person that they actually flew up to Lincoln to meet with TO but I haven't been able to confirm that anywhere else). After further discussions TO relented. He added several conditions of his own, including that LP was done at NU after that season and that after all other goals were met, LP had to meet with KM's entire family and get an ok from each one of them for his return. LP met all his goals (he actually met them before the Colorado game, but TO didn't want to return him for what the coaches considered would be the toughest/most important game of the season) and so was given the reward of being allowed to return to the team as promised.
BTW, a small University (forget the name, begins with a W) conducted a study following the 1995 season concerning the treatment by schools of football players convicted of assault against women the 1995 season. There were 17 D-1 players convicted of misdemeanor or felony assault (recall that LP was convicted of third degree misdemeanor assault). Two schools did not suspend the player at all. Iowa suspended their player for 1 game, but that was his last game as a senior, so that was all that he could be suspended. Thirteen schools suspended their players for either 2 or 3 games. NU was the only school that suspended their player for more than 3 games.
As for CP, again you are missing the important facts. After CP was convicted of sexual assault, as well as a number of other alcohol related crimes, he was ordered by TO to undergo psychological testing. It was determined that he had a problem with alcohol, but was not an alcoholic. That seems confusing, but after talking with a number of CP's friends, including 2 from high school, he basically had a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde personality, with alcohol bringing out the Mr. Hyde. So based on that evaluation, in order to stay on the team CP had to:
1. Stop using alcohol completely for the balance of the time he was at NU
2. Continue psychological counseling on a weekly basis with both University and private mental heath professionals.
3. Undergo random testing for alcohol and/or other illegal substances on a weekly basis for some period (I forget how long), switching over to once a month thereafter for as long as he was at NU.
4. Attend AA or a similar type of support group at least once a week.
5. Speak to school kids in Lincoln and Omaha about his issues and how to avoid them.
There were also a few other minor requirements that I forget. CP was also redshirted following his Prop48 year. The journalists I knew back then were uniformly confused by this. The ostensible reason was to work on CP's footwork and technique, and to get him to drop some weight. However, according to those who watched CP in practice, while he was raw, he was the best run-stopping D lineman we had. It turns out that the primary, although not exclusive, reason for the redshirt year was to make sure CP abided by all the requirements imposed on him for a year before allowing him to see the field.
Punishment under TO was always about much more than a public suspension. It was based more on identification and treatment of underlying problems. Sometimes that was successful, other times it wasn't. However, to base an opinion on whether matters were being "swept under the rug" based solely on how many games a player was suspended is absurd.
Way too much factual detail. We are living in an age where it is nearly impossible for people to change their minds. "TO=enemy of the state" here. Don't lose your sanity. Talk about something else.
I never write for those whose minds are made up. There may be others who are on the fence who might benefit from some information beyond the "well, I sort of remember hearing something from my cousin once."
How dare you.
TO was evil and only won because he and everyone on the team cheated. Keep to the narrative so we can prop our current coach up by dragging old NU down. (I find it ironic that the biggest Riley fans seem to do this the most...inferiority complex perhaps? Why feel the need? Insecure?)
Please.
If Marvin Sims would have dragged his girl down the stairs and beat her ass like Phillips did, he would have been unceremoniously dismissed.
Peter was convicted of sexual assault, having a drinking problem doesn't exonerate him from stupidity
No one said Osborne was evil or that he had to cheat to win.
The discussion was about whether or not Riley should be evaluating his program because a couple of kids were caught smoking weed.
If you read the discussion as a whole and not one post and take that portion of a discussion and run with it.
The fact is that regardless of what steps were in place in the Osborne years, there were plenty of criminal activities that took place, even after the Tyrone Williams and Jason Peter incidents.
If Marvin Sims would have dragged his girl down the stairs and beat her ass like Phillips did, he would have been unceremoniously dismissed.
Peter was convicted of sexual assault, having a drinking problem doesn't exonerate him from stupidity
No one said Osborne was evil or that he had to cheat to win.
The discussion was about whether or not Riley should be evaluating his program because a couple of kids were caught smoking weed.
If you read the discussion as a whole and not one post and take that portion of a discussion and run with it.
The fact is that regardless of what steps were in place in the Osborne years, there were plenty of criminal activities that took place, even after the Tyrone Williams and Jason Peter incidents.
A woman I used to date, who was the chief child psychologist for the Denver Public School System, made the comparison to the Mayo Clinic when I asked her about it. I don't have any other information other than what is on their website. But I figured she would have a good insight into the clinic's level of competence.
Please.
If Marvin Sims would have dragged his girl down the stairs and beat her ass like Phillips did, he would have been unceremoniously dismissed. QUOTE]
All I have to do is quote this to show that you don't know what you are talking about. LP didn't "beat her ass". He was charged with third degree misdemeanor assault, the lowest form of assault on the books, and there is a reason for that. If he had struck her once, with either his fists or a weapon, he could not have been charged with third degree misdemeanor assault.
LP pulled KM out of SF's apartment by the arm, and then when she managed to slip out of his grasp halfway down the stairs, he grabbed her by the hair and pulled her the rest of the way to the first floor. When they reached the first floor 2 men who lived in a first floor apartment came out after hearing the ruckus. One immediately returned to the apartment to call 911. The other, along with SF, who was right on KM and LP's heels (putting the lie to the claim that SF was "hiding in a closet) pushed between KM and LP. Ironically, the only significant physical injury that KM suffered occurred when SF knocked her into the stairway bannister in pushing between her and LP and she suffered a small cut "to the occipital region" of her head. Once the 2 were separated, SF took KM back upstairs while the downstairs neighbor watched LP beat the crap out of the bank of mailboxes, mashing his hands and spraying blood everywhere, while screaming "I ****ed up" (recall that part of LP's sentence for also being convicted of criminal trespass was to pay $348 for repair of the mailboxes). The police and EMT's arrived after LP left. KM's injury was so minor that she initially refused treatment. But someone (I think it was SF, but it may have been the EMT's) convinced her to go to the hospital, where she received a couple of stitches in the cut.
I obtained this information from talking to some of the people involved and reading the testimony (under oath, of course) and reviewing documents from LP's trial. Where did you get your information? Maybe it came from the Boston Globe report, that said KM was in a coma for 5 days. Or maybe the Detroit Free Press, that said KM was so badly injured that her family had a priest come in to give her last rites, although she managed to recover sufficiently that she was released from the hospital after 3 days. Let's see, in a coma for 5 days, yet released from the hospital after 3 days. Maybe some medical malpractice there.
You have no clue whether Marvin Sims would have been unceremoniously booted from the team (like LP initially was) and not allowed to return after receiving mental health treatment (again, like LP was). You just throw a guess out there in an attempt to bolster your opinion. Remember what Harlan Ellison said: "You are not entitled to your opinion, you are entitled to your informed opinion". Oh, and you are the one who initially threw out the claim about TO sweeping things under the rug in this thread. Don't get bent out of shape when someone provides facts to refute something you brought up on your own.
If Marvin Sims would have dragged his girl down the stairs and beat her ass like Phillips did, he would have been unceremoniously dismissed. QUOTE]
All I have to do is quote this to show that you don't know what you are talking about. LP didn't "beat her ass". He was charged with third degree misdemeanor assault, the lowest form of assault on the books, and there is a reason for that. If he had struck her once, with either his fists or a weapon, he could not have been charged with third degree misdemeanor assault.
LP pulled KM out of SF's apartment by the arm, and then when she managed to slip out of his grasp halfway down the stairs, he grabbed her by the hair and pulled her the rest of the way to the first floor. When they reached the first floor 2 men who lived in a first floor apartment came out after hearing the ruckus. One immediately returned to the apartment to call 911. The other, along with SF, who was right on KM and LP's heels (putting the lie to the claim that SF was "hiding in a closet) pushed between KM and LP. Ironically, the only significant physical injury that KM suffered occurred when SF knocked her into the stairway bannister in pushing between her and LP and she suffered a small cut "to the occipital region" of her head. Once the 2 were separated, SF took KM back upstairs while the downstairs neighbor watched LP beat the crap out of the bank of mailboxes, mashing his hands and spraying blood everywhere, while screaming "I ****ed up" (recall that part of LP's sentence for also being convicted of criminal trespass was to pay $348 for repair of the mailboxes). The police and EMT's arrived after LP left. KM's injury was so minor that she initially refused treatment. But someone (I think it was SF, but it may have been the EMT's) convinced her to go to the hospital, where she received a couple of stitches in the cut.
I obtained this information from talking to some of the people involved and reading the testimony (under oath, of course) and reviewing documents from LP's trial. Where did you get your information? Maybe it came from the Boston Globe report, that said KM was in a coma for 5 days. Or maybe the Detroit Free Press, that said KM was so badly injured that her family had a priest come in to give her last rites, although she managed to recover sufficiently that she was released from the hospital after 3 days. Let's see, in a coma for 5 days, yet released from the hospital after 3 days. Maybe some medical malpractice there.
You have no clue whether Marvin Sims would have been unceremoniously booted from the team (like LP initially was) and not allowed to return after receiving mental health treatment (again, like LP was). You just throw a guess out there in an attempt to bolster your opinion. Remember what Harlan Ellison said: "You are not entitled to your opinion, you are entitled to your informed opinion". Oh, and you are the one who initially threw out the claim about TO sweeping things under the rug in this thread. Don't get bent out of shape when someone provides facts to refute something you brought up on your own.
I have seen how loose they are with pill prescription, so a different issue than the competency in diagnosis or other treatment means. They can't help everyone right? And not everyone wants to be helped. And the clinic is probably no worse than others with regards to the prescriptions.
Ah, interesting. Sounds like you have more direct knowledge of what goes on there than my source did. When I found out that LP had been sent there I just asked her if she knew about the place and, if so, what her opinion was. I didn't go any further than that. And it's clear that they didn't help LP in the long run. So one can argue (although IMHO opinion it's a weak argument) that TO was initially right in refusing to allow LP the option of returning to the team rather than being cut for good. But I'm not sure how you can justify/explain the University sending LP to the clinic on its dime, and then refusing to abide by the clinic's doctors' professional recommendation. Definitely a rock and a hard place.
I think TO screwed up in the LP case. He let his desire to help a troubled kid get in the way of sound policy. I think Riley screwed up when he gave a one game suspension to players who gang-raped a female at OSU. I think both would change their mind about their course of action today. I don't think holding mistakes from the distant past against someone does much good.
I also don't think one has to be anti-Tom to support Riley. The two guys are incredibly similar in demeanor, wanting to make a difference in young men, solid football minds, etc. They are not similar in records or championships. Let's all hope Riley can rectify at least part of that over the next few years.
P.S. Osborne supported Keyshawn Sr. and continued to speak positively of Riley even this past week. I'm probably banging my head against the wall bringing it up, but this is the stuff that doesn't get talked about here.
Tom on Keyshawn, Riley, and Being a Hated Man in Iowa
I also don't think one has to be anti-Tom to support Riley. The two guys are incredibly similar in demeanor, wanting to make a difference in young men, solid football minds, etc. They are not similar in records or championships. Let's all hope Riley can rectify at least part of that over the next few years.
P.S. Osborne supported Keyshawn Sr. and continued to speak positively of Riley even this past week. I'm probably banging my head against the wall bringing it up, but this is the stuff that doesn't get talked about here.
Tom on Keyshawn, Riley, and Being a Hated Man in Iowa
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TO agrees with you. In at least one of his books and in talks he has given he has said that he should have stayed with is initial decision. One has to remember that in the week prior to Michigan St. game, according to him, he was told by an anonymous source about the problems between KM and LP and so told LP to stay away from KM until the matter could be sorted out.
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