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Discussion in 'Husker Board' started by Cloud_a_Heart, Feb 13, 2020.
Those who achieve their goals regardless of someone else's timeline still achieve their goals.
“I have some optimism because they had an awful culture,” he said. “They weren’t strong. They weren’t in shape. The schemes were bad last year and they still went into the fourth quarter tied with Wisconsin. They should’ve won two or three more games.
“But we’re nowhere near where we should be.”
Also from the same interview. Somehow you interpreted this as a guaranteed trip to Indianapolis. How?
damn that's depressing ... Frost took over what in reality by his words was a 6 or 7 win team and was able to play Wisconsin close into the 4th quarter - just needed a better culture, better strength and better schemes -- and turned it into a 4-5 win team where we haven't been within a single score of Wisconsin in the 4th quarter - with the current schemes, culture, etc
Because those things are achieved quickly, right? Or is Nebraska trying to catch up with teams that were already beating them? What's your understanding?
This is exactly right. It isn't about building for a year. Or two years. It's about building for many years. Sustained success.
Also, looking at future schedules game by game does nothing but disappoint. That's because we apply prior years results into our expectations. We also assume our opponents will be the same years from now as they are now.
Why look at our future schedule and determine how we may do against it given our current roster? I'm excited to see what our current roster can do next year. And what our future rosters can do the following years.
I know this will be shocking ... but yes generally when a coach is fired the new coach is expected to start beating the teams that were beating them. Generally there is some improvement if the new coach is an upgrade. In year 2 we placed lower in the big ten than Mike Riley’s worse Nebraska team. 2nd to last in the West.
maybe I’m an idiot to think you could judge anything based on 2 years at a program.
You're not an idiot, you're just either not reading what I'm telling you or understanding it. I'm not restarting this conversation because we've covered this already - specifically why it's pointless to make comparisons to Mike Riley and why the product you see in year two isn't a finished product. Feel free to reread this thread at your leisure.
Joe Namaths prediction ended up being right though.
I just don’t know where or in what industry one can have the amount of time some seem Frost needs to turn the program around. You act like it’s the hardest thing in the world to score touchdowns and to stop other teams from scoring touchdowns when one is in that line of work. You want to give him more time then Americans gives POTUS to improve our country.
I'm giving him nothing. The University of Nebraska gave him a contract extension just a few months ago, however, and I am glad they did.
Serious question. Are you on the spectrum? I’m not even joking here
I see you're at the ad hominem stage of the conversation. Does this sort of thing typically elicit the response you're looking for or are you going to eventually regress back to making uniformed football posts?
Geeze come on. 2020 has an FCS school and Cincy to improve those stats. Both those teams are solid but if you think we should be shaking in our boots because of them or viewed as underdogs in that game, then we just have nothing to talk about.
I appreciate your digging in and doing research but I highly believe in the saying there are 3 types of lies - lies, dam lies, and statistics. When you start weighing in SDSU or even Cincy, as issues to next years schedule in lieu of the OP, then yeah, I got nothing for you. When those two teams aid to make 2020 vs 2021 SOS look comparable. You do realize at best, SDSU is full of husker- walk on types right? Part of the reason we faired so poorly the last few years, right?
I don’t mean to piss you off because I think we take care of the coyotes without too much trouble.
But last year they did take Minnesota late in to the 4thQ before losing 28-21..
2021 has an FCS school and Buffalo. The real difference is OU instead of Central Michigan and Michigan State instead of Rutgers. Everything else is basically a push.
FYI, Cincinnati has won 11 games two years in a row and SDSU finished #5 in the FCS. Yes, Nebraska should beat them, but they're not going to step off the bus and beat anyone, that's just where the program is right now.
Soooo the real difference is 2 games? 2 games in ranking SOS is a major big deal in football.
and the reason I seriously asked if you were on the spectrum is that it appears we have no grasp of an “understood”. Yes everything is contingent on if the team shows up ready to actually play and focused. The days of just showing up are light years ago. They don’t happen anymore. This team can’t take anything for granted ever.
Yep, dangerous team if you disrespect the game and don’t take your opponent seriously.
Personally, I don't care why you asked if I'm on the spectrum. It speaks to your character or lack thereof, not mine.
Michigan State has a tougher schedule than Nebraska next year and a first year coach, it's entirely plausible that they finish with a comparable record to Rutgers this year. If they are a three-win team going into 2021, it's basically OU over Central Michigan as the difference in the 2020 and 2021 schedules, which is significant, but not to the point it makes 2020 a cakewalk and 2021 a death march.
When you start weighing in SDSU or even Cincy, as issues...
And just so everyone is clear, you're calling a team that's won 22 games in four years beating a team that's won 22 games in two years an "understood"?
Do you want to spend a lot of time frustrated at your team for failing to meet the expectations you arbitrarily set, because that's how you spend a lot of time frustrated at your team for failing to meet the expectations you arbitrarily set.
Sadly schedule sets context any time you aren't one of the best teams ever. The 2009 Huskers were our best team since 1998 but lost 4 games, the 2007 teams lost 7 games but played 8 top 40 offenses, and 3 teams who would eventually be in the top 5. Bos teams from 2012 to 2014 play historically weak schedules...rarely playing top 25 competition, thankfully because he only won 20% of his games against ranked opponents.....he took advantage and won 9 games. The 2021 team will be decent but will run into a plethora of built up programs. At this point Frosty isn't efficient with his talent and so I don't see us stealing games...it is what it is...we may have to break precedent and keep a mediocre coach around at astronomical prices to let him grow and develop.
College football works like a startup, not a monastery. This isn't an isolated monolith guaranteed to succeed with the only ingredient being time. Frost has a short window to convince people to give up a their livelihood and opportunity at a more assured place and instead come to Nebraska, a place that has been a dumpster fire since these kids were 11. He has to sell the thing, which is why he sounds like he is sugar coating or blaming. He made 10 million to win 9 games...his marquee game saw 75% real attendance, with thousands not even coming in the stadium. He has had the worst possible start, he is -6 in 1 score games, has had terrible attrition and has lost most of his first recruiting class. He chose to take an astronomical salary and needs to be held accountable. He doesn't deserve 5 million and that number will haunt him as it has created an accelerated timetable. Frost has lead with arrogance...demanding a ridiculous salary, forcing his staff, and leading to attrition. He has been humbled but hasn't given any money back and has had to admit that two of his hirings were poor. 10 million to be humbled, and fire two of your prized staff members, and lose a recruiting class doesn't sound like brick building.
P.S: I am a Frost fan...I am also logical. Right now those two are not compatible.
The accelerated timeline is a fabrication - the man received a contract extension months ago.
The process and its warts are evident to the outsiders because all we see is the scoreboard and anyone who comes or goes, but watch the announcement for the expansion if you want to see how Frost is viewed within the program's administration, take note of the timing of the contract extension, note that two people who worked with Frost previously chose to rejoin his staff. It's been real work instead of the easy process most people hoped for, but it's still happening brick by painstaking brick.
And the contract was market value. Frost was the hottest commodity in the coaching world when Nebraska got him. If NU wasn't his alma mater, he doesn't agree to coach at Nebraska and someone else gives him $5M a year.
That’s funny. I believe it was just this weekend you admitted to also predicting we’d compete for a division title last year.
And why do you insist on dodging simple questions? Who’s running from the scoreboard, specifically?
Looks to me you’re the only one who can’t get over the fact Frost has underachieved so far and revert to a juvenile attempt at healing your poor chapped ass by egging on anyone willing on the board.
Then you say you’re stoking some odd fire or riling up an easily called-to-arms fan base when people call you a jackass.
For the second time: let it go, man. It’s pathetic.
That depends on who's doing the recruiting. And when. When we used to see our previous staffs scramble
to fill a class, chances were, those last guys? If they were four stars or whatever, they likely either were taking chances on those four stars,not knowing them well enough, or, getting three stars under the same scenario, like, do they have the want to to get better?
Look at this staffs first class, it repeats what we've seen here for a decade, a few good players playing well, a surprise player, the rest collect splinters in their respective arses,but,this staff booted those guys, kept reloading with known players, ones theyve taken the time to get to know, their families,friends,coaches etc.
Fast tracking it, SF loves guys who play multiple sports. Think back to MR and O lineman Farmer, where there was worry about him wrestling, it goes against SF's philosophy, because SF sees a kid playing multiple sports, he sees a competitor who loves to compete, loves the things he does.
We watched our guys cutting it up on the sidelines as we were getting hammered by other teams, it showed that great love of playing and competing way down the list of importance.
It was a 35 million contract...nobody was going to give him that AND let him keep a staff, 33% that has either left once or been fired after two years. He had leverage because MR was such a pathetic coach and we have the little wenus nebraska attitude that we can't do no better. We had to fire MR and he was the best out there, maybe, but 35 million with only two years experience and no movement on hiring better staff was a bad decision...he knows his guys were amateurs in some regards. Frost can sell his relationships with men, and the tightness of the staff, a staff that just had two members fired...a staff that allowed one guy to leave after year 1 and then brought him back once he was fired. Frost's relationships haven't panned out...he has had terrible attrition and his projects and reaches have nearly all failed...even his golden boy, the one he should have the greatest influence over, was overweight, played scared and wasn't held accountable. I am glad he has 7 years but I think we see Frosty gravitate towards the mean...he fell into a great situation at UCF, won a ton of close games, and had about 6 players better than anyone at NU...the opposite happened at Nu...no NFL players, he is -6 in close games, no leadership, and hubris has looked like arrogance instead of the confidence we saw at UCF...that is all based on record...if he doesn't win no amount of bricks are going to matter.
PS: My feeling is Frosty is actually building something...he will move on within 6 years with little success...but his successor will take over a program in a really healthy place, and might win right away with the infusion of energy and talent that a new coach often brings.
And then reality hit. So, coach Fish is a bum? Held hasnt done anything? Verdu doesnt have a multi decade record of getting his qbs tops?
Attrition? The only guys we wanted ended up at osu west, a qb and a LB. You want to change the culture? Cut out the rot!
Tell us how our guys are cutting it up on the sidelines now during a beatdown? No? Dont tell LJ he didnt get better, Bootle too, CJ, do I need to name them all?
I earlier posted about all Big ten rosters, where under Bo and MR, we averaged almost half the average of number of guys on those rosters, average was 11, we averaged 6, and most of those were honorable mention, yet to get to the league, youd best at least finish third string all Big to get drafted.
You act like everything was gravy for SF, I put up numbers of four star starters, and how wiscy had just as many as we had, except you need to count their five star.
You act like his players have actually played, and not those averaging six a year who make it to the all Big roster, but then you blind eye it when youre told time and again, we currently have forty,40, fourty redshirt or true freshmen coming in this year.
So, since his first class was mostly make up catch up, there arent many real thoroughly vetted recruits that have played for this staff.
Look around, check my claims, see if I'm wrong, because what you're saying just isn't right. This team has been sucking it for ten years now, and Bo bled the last out of it,and screwed the pooch on the way out, and it got no better under MR because of the admin,and yes, an uphill battle he couldn't win.
It seems to me, at texas, they too hired the best new thing, oh, he got them playing well right away, did he too suffer great sttrition? Did he too kick and cut the rot out? Did he reset the entire roster through redshirting more than half the largest class theyve had in a decade? Yet, texas is still on that treadmill, more like a rollercoaster, because win now dont build crap,as you're constantly correcting the results and never fixing the problems.
You might not like how SF is doing things, but don't misinterpret them then say he's a bad coach, his staff are bums.
I'm not going to respond to all of your ramble, but if you think Frost is moving on within 6 years with little success, you're baked.
The biggest influence on football in the state, Tom Osborne, attends practices every week and is on board with what's happening.
Chancellor Green and the Board of Regents all understand the depths of the rebuild and fully support HCSF.
Frost brought his entire staff because they succeeded wildly in a rebuild (or build if you prefer that classification) at UCF together. It's a logical move. In year two, the special teams, wide receivers, and outside linebackers were all glaring weaknesses - Frost promptly brought in new coaches/analysts to address those issues. Also a logical move.
Dawson left to secure an NFL pension. He's noted it, the administration has noted it, Frost has noted it. The fact that they agreed to reunite says a lot about how they feel about one another.
The transition class has suffered awful attrition, but the last two classes have been the best rated classes in over a decade at Nebraska despite the results on the field.
Adrian Martinez was terrible last year, but he had at least one surgery immediately following the end of the season and appears to have already lost a good bit of weight this winter. He's also facing legitimate competition for the starting QB spot for perhaps the first time in his life this year.
You can be upset about the journey, but you'll enjoy the destination and I'm sure you'll tell anyone who wants to listen that you saw it coming, too.
I've heard TO is around twice a week. Thats great news! SF and TO obviously know each other, and well enough that their goal to see Nebraska kickin it again, that they can do this without stepping on each other.
I'm sure SF has asked and listened to a few things TO has said in advice about whats needed, one example, the walkon program. We are getting better walkons, and more than 50% more of them as well.
People who say, 'the next coach', well, that next coach likely will cut the crap out of the walkon program.
When I say it's not been a good look at the amount of walkons weve had playing,it's because prior staffs had too many misses, developed poorly,and didn't recruit top notch. Add to that with walkon numbers slashed at he time, and a lower overall athlete going into the program, yes, it was a bad look.
We will continue to have walkons starting for us, but you can bet, theyll be better developed and honed through much higher competition, like it used to be.
All this, thanks to SF and staff.
Walk-ons, scholarship players or band members the best player at every position needs to play. There are more than a handful of players who do not believe that has happened up to this point. Still causing problems. Let's hope that ends this season if it was really happening. Believing as some of the players did is enough to cause problems. There obviously were problems. Same as treating all players when it comes to discipline. That has not happened under Frost either. Time for all of those things to end!
No, those players are players, they want to win, but just like they want those new facilities, they'll have to wait til it's built.
They aren't coaches, it's above their pay scale, good life lesson
We paid Frost 35 million to let the most important position coach leave, were forced to hire a new coach, and the position group was underwhelming though on paper they were our most talented unit. Then we had to fire another coach to let the friend come back.
It is so backwards that a HC with 4 years of experience and 3 losing seasons is making 5 million a year, and people refuse to think that he might someday be held accountable. Nebraska fans can't comprehend that maybe he is in over his head.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but...
What the f¥ck are you talking about?
You're seriously going to reply to my post to complain about a guy having a team that has certain issues and then complain about him making changes to address those very issues in the same breath? Come on, man.
When running wild, don't worry about your feet in a field of rakes.
1. Ask for 35 million 7 years.
2. Talk about family, continuity on staff, being there for players.
3. Let your friend leave the team to go to NFL just to make more money.
4. Fire another coach to let friend come back
The guy hasn't produced anything...anything...he is statistically the worst coach at NU in 40 years...he made 10 million to win 9 games. I hope it works out...but there is no precedent in college football for a guy starting this poorly over the first two seasons and winning a conference title.
what does money have to do with anything? if he made less, you wouldn't be mad?
as for the last paragraph, hey, there's gotta be a first for everything!
I do too. I never understood why more programs don't do this. Most teams are beat up toward the back half of the year. Why not schedule a cupcake as an added bye week. Help the team get healed up and refreshed for the last few tough conf games.
This sadly is a fairly accurate statement. I think if it doesn't happen by year 3 it is almost non existent. Most championship level coaches achieve championships in some form, by year 3. I know some want to scoff it off and pretend like Frost will be a rare exception, but facts are facts. If he doesn't get a least a west title this year, odds he will get a BIG or NC drop to almost nil.
Now that isn't saying he can't go to another team and win championships IE Nick Saban.
you want to compare facts, at least compare them apples to apples.
you're right, most 'championship level coaches' achieve championships in year 3 at the school they win. not year 3-5 overall in their head coaching careers.
Right, thats why I said, "Now that isn't saying he can't go to another team and win championships IE Nick Saban." Didn't win at Mich st but won conf champ year 2 and NC year 3 and Alabama. My point on Frost still holds true, this year is important for how his time at Nebraska could go.