False verbal commits to save a spot

Discussion in 'Husker Board' started by fyrefightr, May 6, 2020.

  1. fyrefightr

    fyrefightr Walk On
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    With today's 3 and out column and the blurb on the quarterbacks, I kind of feel that a lot of recruits will give verbal commitments to get the slot and still shop around for a better offer. I know this happens all the time but whats the feel for a lot more flipping this year because of the current situation?
     
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  2. headcard

    headcard Nebraska Legend
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    It’s always been done, but I agree we will see it more than ever this year, as guys will want to take their official visits, once they can.
     
  3. NikkiSixx

    NikkiSixx Graduate Assistant
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    yep, compressed timeline as well, so there will be a lot of this, along with silent commits, that may or may not pan out either.
     
  4. litespeedhuskerfan

    litespeedhuskerfan Nebraska Football Hall of Fame
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    Well I think schools do it to. Don't like it from either side, but until the dotted line is signed.......it happens.
     
  5. RedCap

    RedCap Nebraska Legend
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    That's exactly why it's too early to get to concerned/excited over the recruiting status. Things will change a lot before signing day.
     
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  6. NorthwoodHusker

    NorthwoodHusker Blackshirt
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    This early, plenty of 1A/1B even 1C players.
    Usually, one of them want N.
    This staff shakes that out better than any staff this century.
     
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  7. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    To a degree. I think Frost does a good job of making the fans and the player believe that the 3rd or 4th option was one of their top choices, but really they are option 3, 4 or 5 and not 1B or 1C. He says things like we don't offer scholarships unless we are willing to take that kid as a player. I, for one, don't necessarily believe that is true, in fact we have seen kids that want to commit but "can't".

    Plus, Frost does a good job of managing recruiting expectations. He doesn't necessarily recruit to the rankings, per se. He recruits a certain type of player. Sometimes that player blows up and becomes highly ranked, sometimes they don't, but he doesn't get in recruiting battles for the top 10 players at every position. So when a fan looks at a player that ends up signing with Nebraska, and that player was the "1C" player who is ranked as the 20th best player at his position, we don't think anything of it because we didn't lose a recruiting battle for the #1 DT from California or wherever, to USC or Oregon, or the #1 DB from Georgia to Alabama or Ohio St.

    Don't get me wrong, some of the players that sign with Nebraska have offers from the big boys, but when the dust settles, most of our battles aren't coming down to a head to head with Alabama, Clemson and the like. Again, that is managing expectations.

    None of what I wrote is designed as a negative on Frost or anything like that. It is just a simple observation.
     
  8. SLOHusker

    SLOHusker Sophomore
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    Clemson, among others, tells recruits that if they verbally commit they cannot take any other visits. NU needs to do the same. I would pull the offer of a kid that takes a visit while verbally committed.
     
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  9. NorthwoodHusker

    NorthwoodHusker Blackshirt
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    Mostly agree.
    But, his 2A guys are rated way higher than our older staffs 1A.
    So, he can make it look better than it is because it's better than it was.

    To do that, it tells me this staff is working their arses off.
     
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  10. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Nebraska doesn't have the cache to do that, at this time. Clemson's second or third choice is probably higher ranked than Nebraska's first choice.
     
  11. NorthwoodHusker

    NorthwoodHusker Blackshirt
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    Not always, but often,yes.
    There'll be battles ahead.
     
  12. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Don't get me wrong, Frost has recruited better than his predecessors but he isn't an elite recruiter. I just think he plays into the average Nebraska fan's mentality in that you can win without getting into recruiting battles with the top teams. I just don't agree with that theory.
     
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  13. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Point being that Nebraska simply can't tell a commit that if you take a visit, then we will pull your offer, like Clemson can. Not now anyway
     
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  14. NikkiSixx

    NikkiSixx Graduate Assistant
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    So he's afraid to go head to head, because he knows he doesn't have the cache to do it yet. I think it's ok, it's a bit of a dirty business, this whole recruiting thing. Scott is no choir boy on it either. At times though, I think he tries too hard to be like Tom and then he wants to be liked and accepted as if a player and not the coach. (He will remind you that he can still play)

    In either case, he's done a decent job of recruiting, but that goodwill is running out fast.
     
  15. fyrefightr

    fyrefightr Walk On
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    I remember when Nebraska did do that and it was very frowned upon. I think that went away with Riley
     
  16. NikkiSixx

    NikkiSixx Graduate Assistant
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    I guess why call it a commitment?

    If I get married, can I still bang that ho over there? Sorry, wrong thread :)
     
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  17. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Not sure it is fear but rather choice. He watched Riley fail at trying to get top 5 players to sign at Nebraska. Riley got those players to visit, but always seemed to be on the wrong side of the decision. I simply don't remember Frost trying to even get those players, on a regular basis. The exception being highly ranked players that live close to Lincoln.

    Fear or choice, I don't know for sure, but I think it is just easier to get guys ranked in the top 20 of their position ranking to sign on the dotted line than it is to get guys in the top 1-5.
     
  18. hedonistimpulse

    hedonistimpulse Walk On
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    Nebraska's recruited current Tennessee commit and Florida HS LB Terrence Lewis, the #1 player at his position, heavily and still are because they believe there's interest.

    Omar Manning (Texas) was the #2 overall JUCO player.

    And it's not 1-5, but Wandale Robinson (Kentucky) was the #6 player at his position and Adrian Martinez (California) and Ty Robinson (Arizona) were the #7 players at their positions, as were Turner Corcoran and Nick Henrich, albeit in Kansas and Nebraska, respectively.

    They also secured a visit from #5 ILB Cody Simon (New Jersey) who committed to aOSU in 2019.

    I think that's a pretty good indication that if they believe they can get a big-time kid, they're going for it.

    As noted regarding Riley, he secured a visit from seven top-5 position players during his tenure and received a commitment from one (Lamar Jackson).

    Expanding to the top-10, Riley's staff had visits from nine top-10 position players and secured commitments from two of them (Jackson and John Raridon).
     
    18 hedonistimpulse, May 7, 2020
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  19. drubendall

    drubendall Walk On
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    Maybe we should quit calling them commitments. Let's call them verbal intentions. Until the ink is dry, it means nothing. Kids are gonna flip and schools are still going to try to get kids to flip. If commitments were a real thing I think this would be frowned upon
     
  20. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Thank you for proving my point.

    So basically, Terrence Lewis who is going somewhere else, Cody Simon who is going somewhere else, Corcoran and Henrich, who are close to Lincoln, then Wandale, Martinez and Robinson.

    That to you is a pretty good indication they can get a big-time kid they are going after? Sort of proves exactly what I said, that he doesn't go after the top 5 player, and is content recruiting players not in the top 5.

    Like I said, Riley had more top 5 players visit for one summer camp than Frost has had in 3 years, which is fine, but again proves my point that Frost is great at managing expectations. He has you believing that he can get big time kids he is going after.
     
  21. NikkiSixx

    NikkiSixx Graduate Assistant
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    Scott seems to care about speed over just about anything else. I honestly think that is why he does what he does.

    I would much rather target the top 5 running backs.

    He would rather target some little guy who runs a tenth to a few hundredths of a second faster kind of guy.

    We play in a very physical league too.

    Using even fuzzy math, that doesn't add up very cleanly.
     
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  22. hedonistimpulse

    hedonistimpulse Walk On
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    An ability to close is the point, not a fear of pursuit or extreme discretion as you're wrongly saying.

    Logan Smothers was also the #4 player at his position. So, yeah, just the 9 guys I listed in the Top-7 at their positions with 7 of them committed, two of them being Top-5.

    Considering only 9 Top-10 (7 of which were Top-5) players visited for Riley in total, your point was what exactly? Oh, yeah, your point was this staff staying clear of the Top-5 and the implication of avoiding the big fish with the #6 and #7 players being pushed closer to #20 than Top-5 and they had to be close to Lincoln.

    Cool point, Tuco. Glad my pointing out that 5 guys from non-border states and two guys from border states signing, two in the Top-5, but all in the Top-7 of their positions, plus the staff pursuing two other guys in non-border states, both in the Top-5 at their positions, proves your point that this staff is only going after the Top-20 type players unless they're local. Let me know if I can help you prove anything else, lol.
     
    22 hedonistimpulse, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  23. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Those 9 players all visited on one weekend.

    He doesn't heavily recruit top 10 talent. He just doesn't. You could maybe stretch it to he recruits the highest ranked players he believes he can get to come to Lincoln. But in reality, he recruits a lot of 3 star players that he believes may develop, players with speed, the top players from within the 500 mile radius and a group of top 150-200 players from around the country.

    He offers the elite top players, basically because he has to. But he doesn't go after them hot and heavy, unless they are within the 500 mile radius.

    When Smothers was being recruited and committed to Nebraska, he was a mid to mid high 3 star player, was unranked and, even until the day he signed to Nebraska, didn't have an offer from Auburn or Alabama. He wasn't the number 4 ranked QB in the country when he was being recruited. And Rivals is the only service that even has him in the top 10 DT QBs,
     
  24. hedonistimpulse

    hedonistimpulse Walk On
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    Yes, they made a great evaluation on Smothers. They shouldn't be penalized as recruiters because of it, though.

    Nebraska's signed 20 4-star recruits in the last two classes. And 9 in the transition class. They signed a combined 12 in 2016-2017. That's a solid bump in talent despite the putrid results.

    You can say he doesn't recruit Top-10 talent unless they're local, but he's already gone after 9 guys in the Top-7 of their position rankings, 7 of which were outside the 500-mile radius, and gotten commitments from 7 of the 9, 5 of those 7 being from outside the aforementioned 500-mile radius.

    You can say he focuses on 3-star recruits, but he's had more 4-stars commits in the last two classes than any two-class combination since 2005-2006 and even they had fewer total 4-stars (18 to 20) than the 2019-2020 classes, but a combined 3 5-stars in the '05-'06 classes certainly puts that group over the top.

    What you're saying is literally countering everything the data is saying.
     
    24 hedonistimpulse, May 23, 2020
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  25. Oldie but goodie

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    I think the class this year looks a little weak. Two 4 stars and most of the rest average 3 stars, with not many power 5 offers. I hope things pick up, in more ways than one when they start taking visits.
     
  26. John_J_Rambo

    John_J_Rambo Sophomore
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    no, I think the class will finish exactly as it is memorial day weekend, just like always.

    judging a recruiting class in late May: what very smart people do!
     
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  27. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    No one is necessarily penalizing them on recruiting Smothers. I was just saying that he was a 3 star player when he was recruited and committed. He wasn't the Rivals #4 DT QB that you made him out to be in your post that I replied to.

    So in 3 recruiting cycles he has recruited 9 whole players in the Top 7 of their position rankings? I am not sure that shows what you want it to show.

    You are not comparing apples to apples when you write about 4 star commits in a two class combination....blah blah blah. That doesn't even address what I am talking about. You are just trying to confuse the facts with data that really doesn't show anything.


    In 2019 Nebraska had official visits from 44 players, 29 were 3 star or below, 15 were 4 stars and zero were 5 stars. That is a 2-1 ratio, that shows exactly what I said. Frost recruits mostly 3 star players.

    Those 44 players, a reasonable person would assume, are the players that Nebraska was most heavily recruiting. So of the 15 4 stars, 5 went elsewhere. 11 of the 29 3 star and below went elsewhere. 18 3 stars and 10 4 stars (basically same 2-1 ratio 3 star to 4 star) that Frost recruited and signed in 2019. His first full class. Of the 10 4 stars, 2 were JUCO players, so that leaves 8 incoming freshmen. Even if those 8 were all outside the 500 mile radius, and assuming all 8 of those players were top 10, the number show exactly what I said they show.

    In 2020 class, Nebraska had 50 official visitors, 32 3 star and 18 4 star and zero 5 star.

    Of the 18 4 star players, 8 signed elsewhere, leaving 10. 18 of the 32 went elsewhere leaving 14. I will readily admit that I didn't go name by name down the list, but outside of Corcoran, who came in at 7 at his position, the top ranked recruits Nebraska signed in this 2020 class were not even in the top 10, let alone top 5 of their respective positions.

    So to sum up, 94 visits, 61 3 star or below. 2/3 of the players that the reasonable person would view as the most recruited players for Nebraska over a two year period were 3 star or below.
     
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  28. skull N crossbones

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    I think Frost is looking for specific traits at most positions, which leads to speed over size at the skill positions. I think he wants a bigger receiver on the field at all times but doesn't neccesarily want a whole roster of 6'5" receivers. He wants pure speed and quickness. 6 ft burners are rarely going to be ranked super high but he wants a track guy over a slower 6'3" 4 star. I can see his vision. We just haven't consistently put it together.

    Smothers was exactly what he wanted at qb. Track speed, winner, coaches son and they saw him throw and must have liked him. From what I see Frost is trying to hit it out of the park at qb. Ultra athletic QBs with slight flaws that result in a lower ranking but not in full potential. Martinez was hurt. McCaffrey was short on experience....

    It was easy to get caught up in the Riley recruiting hype. It's just as easy to recognize it was a sham and wasn't going to lead to many productive players.

    I like that Frost has a plan and knows what he wants rather than just going after high ranked guys. Of course it would be nice to close on a few more guys like the kid out of Mn last year. Need to win and that should happen.
     
  29. hedonistimpulse

    hedonistimpulse Walk On
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    Now compare all of your data to Riley. Your entire argument was that Riley recruited bigger fish than Frost has. I didn't agree and showed you why.
     
  30. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    Nope - Here is my entire argument



    Then I wrote that Riley tried to recruit head to head vs the top dogs for top talent and failed. He spent months on the kid from Washington that ended up at Stanford, months on Bookie, months on several top players from California that ended up going elsewhere, the LB at Penn St. Most of the arguments on this board at the time were that we shouldn't be wasting our time trying to recruit those players because we don't have a chance.
     
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  31. hedonistimpulse

    hedonistimpulse Walk On
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    Okay, so this is no longer your point?
     
  32. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    I just answered this.
     
  33. dinglefritz

    dinglefritz College Football Hall of Fame
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    I suspect he gauges interest and if there isn't some reciprocal interest from a kid he knows better than to waste too much time on a kid he has little chance of getting. That's probably a smart move. IF we can string together some wins, I suspect he'll be more aggressive on higher ranked players.

    And yet somehow Callahan lured some of them in....
     
  34. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    As fickle as kids are these days, how long do you wait until you see if there is reciprocal interest? How do you know if you could maybe develop relationships and interest? And you are correct, Callahan did lure some in.
     
  35. dinglefritz

    dinglefritz College Football Hall of Fame
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    Clearly Riley waited too long. Bo didn't even try. I suspect Frost tries for a while but gives up when a kid says "nah, I'm really not interested". The other factor I suspect is that they might not always agree with the national ranking or might think a kid might not be a good fit. We've seen them dig in pretty hard on some really good players when they want. Keyshawne Greene comes to mind.
     
  36. Tuco Salamanca

    Tuco Salamanca Offensive Coordinator
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    No argument from me, like I said before, the average Nebraska fan thinks if we recruit like Wisconsin and Iowa, that Frost will coach them up. Walk ons, underrated players and "hard workers". They think those high ranking guys are all prima donnas and not worth the time, unless they are from the 500 mile radius. I get it, I just don't believe we can win recruiting that way with the offense Frost runs.
     
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  37. dinglefritz

    dinglefritz College Football Hall of Fame
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    I don't think it matters what offense we run. We have to get top flight players if we want to win at the level we all want. Frost's offense more than anything requires speed and IMO an athletic smart QB. I really like what he's done in recruiting thus far and I think it will give us a shot at winning the division if he keeps it up but at some point we're going to have to land more difference makers to win the conference. That or we need Ohio State to lose their head coach and fall off.
     
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  38. jflores

    jflores Defensive Coordinator
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    Its amazing how opinions flip on this board. Wasn't a couple a years ago we were flaming Ferentz/Iowa for doing this and being so stupid.
     

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