Fall camp, Shortsideoption, great stuff
- Thread starter HBK4life
- Start date
Tristan Gebbia (SR high school)
32 passes per game, 356 ypg, 61 TD/11 Int. 5 rushes per game, 4 ypc, 20 ypg. 70% completion.
Adrian Martinez (JR high school)
30 passes per game, 215 ypg, 25 TD/4 Int. 15 rushes per game, 8 ypc, 140 ypg. 60% completion.
McKenzie Milton (last year)
30 passes per game, 310 ypg, 37 TD/9 Int. 8 rushes per game, 6 ypc, 48 ypg. 67% completion.
Vernon Adams (SR year at Oregon)
26 passes per game, 264 ypg, 26 TD/6 Int. 8 rushes per game, 2 ypc, 16 ypg. 65% completion.
Marcus Mariota (JR year at Oregon)
30 passes per game, 297 ypg, 42 TD/4 Int. 9 rushes per game, 5.7 ypc, 51 ypg. 68% completion.
Just for some comparisons.
32 passes per game, 356 ypg, 61 TD/11 Int. 5 rushes per game, 4 ypc, 20 ypg. 70% completion.
Adrian Martinez (JR high school)
30 passes per game, 215 ypg, 25 TD/4 Int. 15 rushes per game, 8 ypc, 140 ypg. 60% completion.
McKenzie Milton (last year)
30 passes per game, 310 ypg, 37 TD/9 Int. 8 rushes per game, 6 ypc, 48 ypg. 67% completion.
Vernon Adams (SR year at Oregon)
26 passes per game, 264 ypg, 26 TD/6 Int. 8 rushes per game, 2 ypc, 16 ypg. 65% completion.
Marcus Mariota (JR year at Oregon)
30 passes per game, 297 ypg, 42 TD/4 Int. 9 rushes per game, 5.7 ypc, 51 ypg. 68% completion.
Just for some comparisons.
Except I did and you didn’t reply to that part of my post
RPO with a passing QB evens out the numbers to 10v10 by removing a defender by putting him in conflict. Numbers don’t have to be 11v11 to be equal.
You also didn't take into account being able to load up to stop a RB when the threat of the run isn't there from the QB.
So now you're actually trying to convince me that a dual-threat QB doesn't offer advantages at the point of attack? Well, I think you're going to have to take your argument on the road to Power5 college campuses all over the nation, because it would appear that many of those college coaches disagree with you.
I don’t think anyone here is a Martinez honk, but I, for one see things this way:
1 Frosts final decision point will be which QB most efficiently can use the talent at his disposal.
2 A running QB is preferred but not essential, according to HCSF.
3 Gebbia never shrunk from the competition and embraced the coaching change from the get go.
4 I would prefer that Martinez win the job because he can make the O more dangerous. But he has to take it from a very capable QB.
1 Frosts final decision point will be which QB most efficiently can use the talent at his disposal.
2 A running QB is preferred but not essential, according to HCSF.
3 Gebbia never shrunk from the competition and embraced the coaching change from the get go.
4 I would prefer that Martinez win the job because he can make the O more dangerous. But he has to take it from a very capable QB.
I literally talked about the bubble screen in my first post, which is one of Frost’s primary weapons (like other RPO coaches) against “loading up to stop a RB when the threat of a run isn’t there from the QB.” More so than the QB run game at UCF, believe it or not. And I said I don’t disagree he wants a DT QB, and never argued they don’t have advantages (where are you getting that?) I’ve simply pointed out there are other ways of getting the same advantage using your own point of more RPO.
Yeah, I think that people keep thinking that somehow Frost will morph the Oregon offense into the Osborne offense of old. I don't ever remember Oregon out physical-ing anyone of substance. It was always about speed and finesse.
It is not irrelevant.
He was not the head coach at Oregon.
He is the head coach at Nebraska.
IF Taylor had a defense that was worth a crap.. I forget the game but we were on the road and Taylor and Co put up 35pts.. oh yeah.. we still lost the game.
I don't think anyone is silly enough to suggest that we are going back to Osborne's offense, but it is interesting that 3rd generation spread offenses utilize the running QB even more than 2nd generation spread offenses.
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...reat-quarterback-spread-option-Malzahn-Briles
Maybe Frost knew he was taking over a program that ran a pro style offense and didnt really know if he had a QB that could run his offense or not and also saw a HS QB he really liked so he went out and recruited him. Then Frost gets to Nebraska and is pleasantly surprised by what he sees in Gebbia and Bunch.
I think Gebbia can be really effective in this offense and that Martinez can be a superstar in this offense, someday. Maybe mentally he just isn't quite there yet as a true freshman.
Once opposing teams focused on just TM it was all over. His upside was blazing straight ahead speed. He never had Crouch's toughness, nor agility.
Oh Gawd......
TMart hardly played his senior year due to injury. Let's look at his junior year (2012) where we had four losses.....
1. UCLA 36 - NU 30
2. Ohio St 63 - NU 38
3. Wisconsin 70 - NU 31
4. Georgia 45 - NU 31
It hardly takes a rocket scientist to see NU's defense was horrible and even with a Crouch, Frazier, Gill or "anybody" else at qb (with toughness, agility, etc) we still almost certainly lose the same amount of games.
NU that year still did beat Wisconsin, Michigan, Northwestern, Michigan St, Penn St, Minnesota & Iowa. TMart threw for 23 TDs and ran for 1019 yards. What the hell more was TMart supposed to do?
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Right because TM didnt contribute to any of those high scores with turnovers.
We were the luckiest team in college football in 2012 to somehow pulled off wins vs Wisconsin, Northwestern & Michigan St. Glad we won, but those wins covered up a lot of Pelini's flaws.
This is what I conveyed earlier. I've mentioned that I'm sure Gebbia can make all the throws, but Martinez checks more boxes as attributes in this offense. If he can't make decisions fast enough though, he isn't going to be on the field. All I'm saying is that I would ultimately want the dual-threat QB on the field vs the pro-style QB, if they are both processing the info equally quickly. Hopefully Martinez will get to that point.
Sure, Bo had his flaws. But relative to our two great losing machines (Clownahan & Smiling Mike) he was V. Lombardi.
If Taylor Martinez doesn't get hurt he is a whole different story. Yes his mechanics are ugly, but he was over 60% and had a lot of good games when he was healthy. We like to knock on him because it was ugly, but we would have won a championship if that kid wouldn't have got hurt.
Um. No. Bo couldn't get out of his own way on defense and the glaring roster holes his recruiting left were not going to let us win "a big one".
I didn't say National. We would have won the Big 12 Title if he doesn't get hurt his Freshman year.
The point is that the most important box is not "dual threat QB". It's a baseline level of mobility and athleticism. If the QB can get what he needs, then it opens up the offense. Is more athleticism better? Yes. But the MOST IMPORTANT attributes are the ability to make quick decisions and the ability to accurately deliver the ball on time. IF both QBs can do these, then the athleticism is 3rd on the list. It's not #1 or #2. It's #3.
The key about being athletic in this offense isn't that the QB can Mike Vick his way to wins. It's that he can create a threat the defense needs to respect enough to either move, hold or slow defenders' decisions. If they have to respect his feet, that's what matters. But if he has great athleticism but can't check boxes 1 and 2, then he's much less useful to Frost than a guy who can check boxes 1 and 2 and is less athletic, yet athletic enough, to run the offense. That's the point.
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Well, you're ignoring how big a threat the qb is running the ball. You really think the opponent's defense isn't going adjust for facing a TMart or Gebbia at qb? C'mon.......
I'm not talking about the defense. I'm talking about in order for Frost to run his offense how he wants to run it, the #1 and #2 criteria, as stated by Scott Frost, is the QB has to be able to correctly make quick decisions and he has to be able deliver accurate throws. Athleticism, if its good enough as determined by Frost, is not #1 or #2.
How the defense adjusts and plays QBs differently is up to them. He is making a decision about who QB can make the offense most successful. If #1 and #2 are more important than #3, again, this is assuming that a baseline requirement for athleticism is met.
SkerzforLife post reinforces what is being said. The QB has to be able to take yards that are given to him. He doesn't have to go Taylor Martinez vs Washington/ K-State 2010.
McKenzie Milton (last year)
30 passes per game, 310 ypg, 37 TD/9 Int. 8 rushes per game, 6 ypc, 48 ypg. 67% completion.
Vernon Adams (SR year at Oregon)
26 passes per game, 264 ypg, 26 TD/6 Int. 8 rushes per game, 2 ypc, 16 ypg. 65% completion.
Marcus Mariota (JR year at Oregon)
30 passes per game, 297 ypg, 42 TD/4 Int. 9 rushes per game, 5.7 ypc, 51 ypg. 68% completion.
At RB there is Bell, Maurice, Tre (if healthy) and good words are being said about a slimmed down Ziggy. Stan, JD, McQuitty, Tyjon, Mike Williams, Stoll etc. provide inviting receiver targets. The game for the QB is how to efficiently use the tools at his disposal.
Quite frankly I think most of us hope that Martinez is able to seize the starting job, as his running abilities add yet another weapon to the offense. But for the QB in Frost's offense, ability to make quick decisions and deliver the ball is greater than the ability for a QB to run.
Quite frankly I think most of us hope that Martinez is able to seize the starting job, as his running abilities add yet another weapon to the offense. But for the QB in Frost's offense, ability to make quick decisions and deliver the ball is greater than the ability for a QB to run.
Everone is wrong - scott frost himself is the only one capable of running his offense
That's like saying the most important abilities of a hunter are to be able to shoot a gun and to walk in the woods. Delivering the ball accurately and making relatively quick decisions are required abilities of pretty much every QB that puts on a uniform. The ability to be able to run the ball effectively are the additional gravy on your open-faced roast beef sandwich that makes it much more tasty. Martinez would be the roast-beef sandwich with additional gravy of this offense.
Not if the bread is a day old and the roast beef is USDA select and not USDA choice. Then the gravy is just a cover up.
So we're locked into contracts with the purveyors of the bread and meats for the next 4 years? That would be a grave disappointment if they couldn't upgrade their product in the next month or so.
I don't think anyone here is disagreeing that if Martinez can do #1 and #2 effectively they wouldn't want him to start over Gebbia. I could have missed some posts, but what I've seen others say jives word for word with what I heard Frost reiterate this morning - effeciency, delivering the ball on time, making quick decisions - about what he needs from his QB. If Martinez can do those things, then his big play ability with his feet are the gravy on top of the sandwich. But if he can do the efficiency part well, his big play ability isn't worth playing him over someone else who can do the efficiency part the way Frost needs to have it done. Gebbia moves well enough to accomplish the purpose of the QB demanding eyes and attention from the defense.
It appears that people have thrown in the towel on a player that is barely getting his feet wet. I think he'll be fine in the long run, and represents more upside to this offense.
Hoosker, no disrespect here, but I don’t see people throwing in the towel on Martinez anywhere here. The only thing I see are people saying decision-making is more important than the ability to run in this offense. If Martinez can be the decision-maker that Frost needs, he is the guy. But he has to be able to be that decision maker. That’s the number one priority. And like you say, his ability to run the football is the gravy on the sandwich.
I do think it begs the question, however, if he is just a little bit lower on the decision-making side of things, does his ability with his legs make up for that getting him the not at starter? In other words, if he and Gebbia are close but he is 1B in terms of decision-making, is that enough for him to get the nod as starter?
And also, I think a lot of people agree that he does have more upside. I’ve seen that posted repeatedly in this thread, that he has a higher ceiling. People agree with that statement.
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