Different Vantage Point on culture and buy-in

[Jhollenbeck41]

So I'm going to beat a dead horse here. Let's take a look at this culture thing from a different perspective. We've heard the rumors on who the players are causing some issues, and some players we don't know about. People blame it on coaching for players not wanting to buy in and do things Frost's way. So I want to pose the question this way, back it up a little bit and let's put some of our players that are rumored into the position of being recruited again out of high school. Let's just say they don't choose to play for Nebraska or Frost out of high school because, again, they don't like the way he does things. That's fine. But are we still blaming that on Frost then? Or are we accepting the fact at that point that some players just don't do well in the 90s level/championship mentality that Frost is trying to create?

Discuss.

 

[headcard]

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

So I'm going to beat a dead horse here. Let's take a look at this culture thing from a different perspective. We've heard the rumors on who the players are causing some issues, and some players we don't know about. People blame it on coaching for players not wanting to buy in and do things Frost's way. So I want to pose the question this way, back it up a little bit and let's put some of our players that are rumored into the position of being recruited again out of high school. Let's just say they don't choose to play for Nebraska or Frost out of high school because, again, they don't like the way he does things. That's fine. But are we still blaming that on Frost then? Or are we accepting the fact at that point that some players just don't do well in the 90s level/championship mentality that Frost is trying to create?

Discuss.

Why do the inferior teams with less talent consistently beat us, again and again and again? Not talking OSU and Wisconsin for this year.

 

[ctlbyr]

Next year frost act of blaming past coaches for teams problems will get old. Year 3 its all on frost

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

Why do the inferior teams with less talent consistently beat us, again and again and again? Not talking OSU and Wisconsin for this year.

They don't.....I believe we lost to Illinois at their place in 2016, don't remember 2017 but we obviously beat them 2018 and 2019. Purdue is the reverse example but still kind of proves the point. We beat them in 2017 and lost both 2018 and 2019. Absolutely smoked Maryland. Two plays cost Indiana, and I don't remember the last time we played. With all due respect, name some more I just can't think of any for some reason. We smoked Northern Illinois FWIW. So your point is not entirely true.

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

Next year frost act of blaming past coaches for teams problems will get old. Year 3 its all on frost

Depending on what happens with a few guys that started this year, Matt Farnok being one of them, you know pending any transfers right now, I mostly agree with you. I'd say 2021 there is no doubt anymore it's all his guys.

 

[egaRdeR]

Why do the inferior teams with less talent consistently beat us, again and again and again? Not talking OSU and Wisconsin for this year.

Can you focus on the question? Seriously, your first post completely changes the topic of the post.

It's like when my wife and I are making a grocery list. I ask if we need apples and she replies "we have lettuce".

FOCUS my man.

 

[NikkiSixx]

Why do the inferior teams with less talent consistently beat us, again and again and again? Not talking OSU and Wisconsin for this year.

I know you know the answer, but the offense has to score more points and you have leadership issues with the guy running the show back there, that now nobody on the team believes in (except Frost).

it's not about culture buy in.. it's about leadership buy in

 

[Jhollenbeck41]

Sooooo back to the original question then.....?

 

[huskrz1]

I don’t care about the recruits that go elsewhere. Who cares really. I will judge his ass but not on that. Rather focus on the players he brings in. Next year this is his team in my opinion. I mean haven’t 20/30 players gone elsewhere since Riley left? Frost replaced those with his players and next year he will have two full recruiting cycles. No more excuses next year and I don’t want the coach throwing players under the bus or even the perception of doing so as that shifts blame and ownership. Don’t want recruits thinking the boss does not support the players 100% which also impacts recruiting. Despite the shit record this past year with a powder-puff schedule a guy like frost should be rolling in more W. Robinson’s every year.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

So I'm going to beat a dead horse here. Let's take a look at this culture thing from a different perspective. We've heard the rumors on who the players are causing some issues, and some players we don't know about. People blame it on coaching for players not wanting to buy in and do things Frost's way. So I want to pose the question this way, back it up a little bit and let's put some of our players that are rumored into the position of being recruited again out of high school. Let's just say they don't choose to play for Nebraska or Frost out of high school because, again, they don't like the way he does things. That's fine. But are we still blaming that on Frost then? Or are we accepting the fact at that point that some players just don't do well in the 90s level/championship mentality that Frost is trying to create?

Discuss.

People on this board and the premium one thought that Jim Tressel was going to get hired after Bo. Speculation on this board is literally nothing, and has no basis of fact. The reality is, the season is over, and people are bored and have nothing else to talk about. They are going to create drama to entertain themselves. If Mike Williams wasn't called for a blindside block(bad call), and we get 15 more yards we beat Iowa, are 6-6, going to a bowl, and nobody is talking about this trash.

 

[Buckman01213]

I know you know the answer, but the offense has to score more points and you have leadership issues with the guy running the show back there, that now nobody on the team believes in (except Frost).

it's not about culture buy in.. it's about leadership buy in

Unless I missed something, when was it more than speculation by people on message boards that nobody on the team believes in AM?

 

[huskrz1]

People on this board and the premium one thought that Jim Tressel was going to get hired after Bo. Speculation on this board is literally nothing, and has no basis of fact. The reality is, the season is over, and people are bored and have nothing else to talk about. They are going to create drama to entertain themselves. If Mike Williams wasn't called for a blindside block(bad call), and we get 15 more yards we beat Iowa, are 6-6, going to a bowl, and nobody is talking about this trash.

Why don’t u go away if u find the board so unappealing - oh you must be one of the trouble starters u are railing bout. True, most would have been more satisfied with the bowl game and extra practices and recruiting possibilities but the team still way under performed this year with a weak-assed schedule so I disagree with your assertion it would be all roses.

 

[mgbreis]

Why don’t u go away if u find the board so unappealing - oh you must be one of the trouble starters u are railing bout. True, most would have been more satisfied with the bowl game and extra practices and recruiting possibilities but the team still way under performed this year with a weak-assed schedule so I disagree with your assertion it would be all roses.

Are you 14? Honestly curious.

 

[Bugeater]

I think Nebraska needs to bring in a guy who knows all about culture:

 

[huskerhomie]

Next year frost act of blaming past coaches for teams problems will get old. Year 3 its all on frost

Well if peeps want to give Frost most of the credit for yr 2 at UCF, shouldnt he get most of the credit for yr 2 at NU?

I mean...

 

[c3o]

Of course he deserves the blame. He needed to fail. Let’s see if he learns. Let’s see what roster he brings out. I think we will be good next year, actually. And I’m not ready to call the schedule anything till next year. The “easy” one we have this year turned out to be pretty good, considering Nebraska deserved every bit of that 5-7 record. We played a good # of bowl teams and what, 5 ranked teams?

 

[huskrz1]

Are you 14? Honestly curious.

More important question is are you gone yet and why not? U must be one of the bored problem starters you so detest.
Back on topic however, I challenged your premise that we should be happy with just a 6-6 record and a bowl game appearance. I consider those low expectations considering when most experts widely expected a BIG10 West championship. Would you like to counter my challenge that you set your expectations way Tua low in my opinion or continue to employ your lowbrow and childish digs.

Well if peeps want to give Frost most of the credit for yr 2 at UCF, shouldnt he get most of the credit for yr 2 at NU?

I mean...

that is a nice one. Not if you are one of the many sunshine-pumpers on this site who routinely attack anyone that makes negative, but seemingly well-founded comments about their coach.

 

[Iroh2]

How do we know the team underperformed? What evidence is there that we should have been better than we were this year? I don’t like the outcome any more than anyone else, but why do we think we should have been better, other than hope/wishing? In theory, we might really have only been good enough to win 3 games and actually won 5? Other than what we wanted the outcome to be, what makes us think the team underperformed? Is it possible they overperformed compared to their true potential?

 

[mgbreis]

More important question is are you gone yet and why not? U must be one of the bored problem starters you so detest.
Back on topic however, I challenged your premise that we should be happy with just a 6-6 record and a bowl game appearance. I consider those low expectations considering when most experts widely expected a BIG10 West championship. Would you like to counter my challenge that you set your expectations way Tua low in my opinion or continue to employ your lowbrow and childish digs.

that is a nice one. Not if you are one of the many sunshine-pumpers on this site who routinely attack anyone that makes negative, but seemingly well-founded comments about their coach.

What?

 

[huskerhomie]

How do we know the team underperformed? What evidence is there that we should have been better than we were this year? I don’t like the outcome any more than anyone else, but why do we think we should have been better, other than hope/wishing? In theory, we might really have only been good enough to win 3 games and actually won 5? Other than what we wanted the outcome to be, what makes us think the team underperformed? Is it possible they overperformed compared to their true potential?

Uhhh because we had higher ranked players overall than a few of the teams we lost to. Pur was missing their number 1 playmaker and their 3rd and 4th string qbs came in and engineered long scoring drives..that shouldnt happen much, yet it did twice to us in one game.

We had a game this yr where we won the tur over battle AND blocked 2 punts..and we lost..how often does that happen?

Frost has underachived both years and we have probably lost I would say conservatively 3-5 games the past two years we should have won.

We should have made a bowl game both years.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

I have said since the whole "buy in" stuff was first brought up, that if Scott Frost has to choose culture or winning a few meaningless games early on. I say meaningless because in the overall scheme of things, if you end up with 4 or 5 wins you aren't going to go bowling anyway.

The point being, if you are going to play players that are better, but haven't bought into your culture, then you are setting your culture back multiple years. Every freshman from 2018 and 2019 class has watched players, who are believed to be malcontents and not buying in, start and play in games. If the message was sent that this is the culture we want and that is the number 1 priority, and you sit some of those malcontents and players that didn't buy in, then you get more immediate buy in. But if you allow the malcontents to continue to start and play, the younger players see that as acceptable behavior or that it really doesn't matter if I buy in 100% because if I am still better than the guy behind me, I am going to play. Additionally, if you recruit players with a history of poor off the field behavior but only punish continued poor behavior minimally, you run the risk of not only losing that player, but players that watched you punish that player minimally. Each season that is allowed to continue, the next class, in this case the 2020 class, sees that and getting rid of the "cancers" is more difficult.

It is just very difficult to change culture and play your best players. The problem is that most coaches have a big ego and want to win, so they sacrifice culture for wins. Fans don't want to deal with 2 and 3 win seasons, and they will bitch and complain about poor seasons.

So, I guess we can blame Riley for the inherited softness, but right now, after two full seasons, any lack of culture on the team is at the feet of Scott Frost and his staff.

 

[husker2612]

How do we know the team underperformed? What evidence is there that we should have been better than we were this year? I don’t like the outcome any more than anyone else, but why do we think we should have been better, other than hope/wishing? In theory, we might really have only been good enough to win 3 games and actually won 5? Other than what we wanted the outcome to be, what makes us think the team underperformed? Is it possible they overperformed compared to their true potential?

No teams knows exactly how they are going to perform until the year is over. It is all based on speculation, previous year results, strength of schedule, and returning players. All in all Nebraska had a lot of experience returning, especially on the D side. Our star QB who lit it up Fresh year, was going to be a Soph. Frost and staff exploded year 2 at UCF. Plus they gained a year of experience in the BIG10. Last year after starting 0-6 we finished 4-2, and appeared to be gaining momentum and turning the corner. Then add in the "easier schedule"
When looking at everything as a whole, there was plenty of reason to be optimistic. It wasn't just neb fans, it was analysts from across the country. I know some of our fans were thinking 11-1 10-2,. Dark horse for BIG title or a playoff spot. That was being unrealistic. The one thing that did change was the SOS, coming in I believe we had the 60ish ranked SOS in the country. We finished with a 23rd ranked SOS. Last year we finish in the 30s. So many are not factoring in that. Our schedule was tougher this year.
I do think we should have been able to win at min 7 games however, we under performed even mild expectations.

 

[Catch50]

So I'm going to beat a dead horse here. Let's take a look at this culture thing from a different perspective. We've heard the rumors on who the players are causing some issues, and some players we don't know about. People blame it on coaching for players not wanting to buy in and do things Frost's way. So I want to pose the question this way, back it up a little bit and let's put some of our players that are rumored into the position of being recruited again out of high school. Let's just say they don't choose to play for Nebraska or Frost out of high school because, again, they don't like the way he does things. That's fine. But are we still blaming that on Frost then? Or are we accepting the fact at that point that some players just don't do well in the 90s level/championship mentality that Frost is trying to create?

Discuss.

The players don't design the playbook or call the plays.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

Why don’t u go away if u find the board so unappealing - oh you must be one of the trouble starters u are railing bout. True, most would have been more satisfied with the bowl game and extra practices and recruiting possibilities but the team still way under performed this year with a weak-assed schedule so I disagree with your assertion it would be all roses.

I have a right to dictate how a free board goes just like any smuck. I enjoy real content and not little girl gossip that has no basis in fact. Even if a board member sat down with an NU player they are likely to get a different response on a different day because the kid is 20 years old and changes his mind depending on what he ate for breakfast. Nobody was talking about this garbage one week ago because we were coming off of a win and had another game coming. We had a predictably bad year...we were down to our #3 qb, one healthy rb, one healthy wr, TEs playing WR, freshman on the oline, freshman on the dline, no starting safeties, missing dts...and no field goal kicker and and HS punter. We continued our poor play, bad bounces, in close games...and we are 3-10 in toss-up games. If we were 10-3 you would be jizzing all over Frost but the product would be exactly the same, just good bounces instead of bad ones.

 

[Catch50]

So I'm going to beat a dead horse here. Let's take a look at this culture thing from a different perspective. We've heard the rumors on who the players are causing some issues, and some players we don't know about. People blame it on coaching for players not wanting to buy in and do things Frost's way. So I want to pose the question this way, back it up a little bit and let's put some of our players that are rumored into the position of being recruited again out of high school. Let's just say they don't choose to play for Nebraska or Frost out of high school because, again, they don't like the way he does things. That's fine. But are we still blaming that on Frost then? Or are we accepting the fact at that point that some players just don't do well in the 90s level/championship mentality that Frost is trying to create?

Discuss.

Players not buying in?

I don't recall that being an issue after spring ball or summer camp. ????

 

[huskrz1]

What?

What?

Raise your expectations loser.....might just be over your head.

 

[Huskerz99]

Players not buying in?

I don't recall that being an issue after spring ball or summer camp. ????

They only don’t buy in when we lose. Duh. I just don’t see how this is so hard. If you don’t want them to wear long sleeves then tell them to take off their long sleeves.

 

[B1G RED RULES]

Uhhh because we had higher ranked players overall than a few of the teams we lost to. Pur was missing their number 1 playmaker and their 3rd and 4th string qbs came in and engineered long scoring drives..that shouldnt happen much, yet it did twice to us in one game.

We had a game this yr where we won the tur over battle AND blocked 2 punts..and we lost..how often does that happen?

Frost has underachived noth years and we have probably lost O would say conservatively 3-5 games the past two years we should have won.

We should have made a bowl game both years.

Don’t get these guys started on our talent. We rank 120th according to some. They will tell you we had a bunch of 4 star players leave or bust. That’s true. But several other programs don’t get many 4 star players to begin with.

 

[spinner4]

I’ve really thought long and hard about what the hell went wrong these last few years and I’ve only came up with one reasonable conclusion. A lot of our players didn’t mesh well with this new staff.

That seems obvious but Scott is a tuff guy. He’s honest, humble and cocky at the same time. Riley would never land those types of kids. And no knock on the kids Riley brought in. They are great too. But if they are similar to Riley and his staff and the culture those guys wanted to build, they aren’t like frost and his guys. And Riley wouldn’t land kids like Frost wanted and probably vice-versa.

other younger coaches that have had early success have been a little goofy. And it’s easy to win players over that way, regardless of then type of players. Guys like PJ Fleck and Orgeron can be goofy and charismatic. Scott really isn’t either. Scott is more like a Swinney. People forget Dabo wasn’t lights out his first couple seasons and Clemson is in a hot bed of talent. He went 6-7 his 3rd year. Lost a lot of close games. Ring a bell? But Scott isn’t as big of a d-bag hothead as Dabo.

my only complaint really is that they didn’t play more youth. We lost anyways. I’d rather have given them experience. That and use a dam time out every now and again. Don’t hold those only until 2 minutes are left in the half. Sometimes games are won on a 3rd Q drive on either side of the ball. It’s nice to have 3 time outs with a minute left when your down but let’s not try to get to that point either.

 

[tick2266]

They don't.....I believe we lost to Illinois at their place in 2016, don't remember 2017 but we obviously beat them 2018 and 2019. Purdue is the reverse example but still kind of proves the point. We beat them in 2017 and lost both 2018 and 2019. Absolutely smoked Maryland. Two plays cost Indiana, and I don't remember the last time we played. With all due respect, name some more I just can't think of any for some reason. We smoked Northern Illinois FWIW. So your point is not entirely true.

Looking strictly at rivals ranking system, Colorado, Iowa, Purdue, Indiana, and Minnesota have less talent. I was unable to locate the numbers for Wisconsin, but they too may have a lower talent ranking.

 

[Catch50]

They only don’t buy in when we lose. Duh. I just don’t see how this is so hard. If you don’t want them to wear long sleeves then tell them to take off their long sleeves.

Or they get accused of not buying in when we lose.

 

[Huskerz99]

Or they get accused of not buying in when we lose.

I wonder what percentage of players believe in him if they did an anonymous poll?

 

[Catch50]

I wonder what percentage of players believe in him if they did an anonymous poll?

I bet 75%. Most players don't have a problem with his style of offense. All college football teams.

It should be noted that there were reports that when AM went under center against OSU for 6-7 plays and they moved the ball, the offense was pumped up.

 

[huskrz1]

Players not buying in?

I don't recall that being an issue after spring ball or summer camp. ????

I don’t recall any issues prior to the season - the team was the best conditioned team we to take the fil

I wonder what percentage of players believe in him if they did an anonymous poll?

oh shit - we paying him 5 big ones to make it work so I hope by the end of next season very few would not be buying into frosty as a coach or leader. I know the contact extension was a sign of faith and commitment to the new ball-coach (yes - skins fan) but was that the right message to send to frosty and is the pressure off him now because he knows he is the chosen son and he is locked and knows we won’t break his contact.....

 

[cecilB]

Why do the inferior teams with less talent consistently beat us, again and again and again? Not talking OSU and Wisconsin for this year.

After seeing the all conference picks, which of our losses were to teams with less talent?

 

[Huskerz99]

I bet 75%. Most players don't have a problem with his style of offense. All college football teams.

It should be noted that there were reports that when AM went under center against OSU for 6-7 plays and they moved the ball, the offense was pumped up.

What percentage believe in him as a leader of young men? Is it less than the percentage that believe he knows offense?
It’s like a professor who gets feedback from their students once the course is finished. I hope Frost can get this from seniors and exiting players and use it to reflect on his weaknesses and strengths.

 

[cecilB]

What percentage believe in him as a leader of young men? Is it less than the percentage that believe he knows offense?
It’s like a professor who gets feedback from their students once the course is finished. I hope Frost can get this from seniors and exiting players and use it to reflect on his weaknesses and strengths.

Yeah, that’s wishful thinking. His public comments put this possibility at about 1%, or less

 

[mgbreis]

Raise your expectations loser.....might just be over your head.

Listen dummy, I'll explain this slowly because I know your lips move when you read: I. Never. Referenced. Any. Expectations. I'm not the poster who referenced 6-6. You confused me with Solana Beach, which is actually fine because unlike you he has an IQ higher than the price of gas. I know this explanation will go over your head and you'll just spew more venom instead acknowledging your stupidity, so again.... are you 14?

 

[Catch50]

What percentage believe in him as a leader of young men? Is it less than the percentage that believe he knows offense?
It’s like a professor who gets feedback from their students once the course is finished. I hope Frost can get this from seniors and exiting players and use it to reflect on his weaknesses and strengths.

I believe other than his chosen offensive system, he is very much respected by the players.