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Defensive Struggles Conversation

leodisflowers

Head Coach
Feb 25, 2011
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North Carolina
What is the cause, how do we fix it? IMO, I think losing the interior D-Line from last year is killing us and need to figure it out in order to try and salvage something. I also think we need to be aggressive as hell. I feel like Chins is so scared to give up big plays that we lack aggression. At this point, move your corners up and dial up all kinds of blitzes. Isn't going to hurt anything because it seems like we play a ton better on D when we are being aggressive and trying to put the pressure on.

CB's - Haven't been bad and still think this is a bit of a strength,
Interior DL - Killing us. Not as bad when aggressive, but killing us
Rush Ends / OLB - A little better, but need to pick up their game. Have some talent there and need to get after it
ILB - Hasn't been good, but I think this has a lot to do with the D-Line play. Need to tackle better
Safety - Buford I like. He struggles at times, but at least plays hard as hell and is making some plays. I think it is time for Farmer to sit and try to get someone else in there
 
I've made a few posts on this but imo:
  1. Need more 3-4 and less Nickel packages this year. Will help with interior DL
  2. Feist and Robinson aren't playing well. Nash, Drew, Wynn need to play more
  3. Sanford in for Farmer will be a help at safety
We are putting a ton of stress on our LBs right now and shouldn't be the case. Especially now that we are starting a true freshman. Chins needs to tweak things and get the ball back to our offense more often. I'm okay with a few big plays given up if we also have more turnovers and negative plays forced.
 
DL has to embrace big boy football for a full 60. Not sure if Dawson can get them there. Every other concern is 100% fixable IMO and I think HCSF knows it. I'm looking for them to turn the corner for our last 6 games. Just in time.
 
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The problem has always been scheme. The problem has always been a terrible DC. the problems last year were somewhat covered up by stellar players making plays despite the coaches but once said players opted out or got hurt, the problems showed up again. The DL is weak, the LBs can't gap fill or cover the flat for shit, and the DBs always give a giant cushion. We can blame the players for fundamental mistakes here and there, but when it happens for 5 straight years... it's time for some of you to come to grips that chinander sucks
 
The problem has always been scheme. The problem has always been a terrible DC. the problems last year were somewhat covered up by stellar players making plays despite the coaches but once said players opted out or got hurt, the problems showed up again. The DL is weak, the LBs can't gap fill or cover the flat for shit, and the DBs always give a giant cushion. We can blame the players for fundamental mistakes here and there, but when it happens for 5 straight years... it's time for some of you to come to grips that chinander sucks
agree. Chinander has been holding this team back. Not sure the answer, and as much as I love Ty Robinson, if he is struggling, Feist is even worse. We need to either get Robinson to turn it up or get someone else in there, Wynn, etc, who will. Ty and Nash are absolute beasts in the weight room. There is no reason they cant hold their own in the interior. Hoping to see some big improvement this weekend and in the coming weeks. we seem to play down to our competition
 
Garrett Nelson blaming Myles Farmer after a ND back gashed us for a 63 yard run was telling - it's not good when our players (the team captain and head cheerleader) don't even know the assignments (and it's never cool to call out a teammate like that).
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“He doesn’t need to jump out to the QB,” Nelson said of Farmer after the game. “He needs to tackle the dive.”

But Farmer, one of the quarterbacks of the defense, actually played the scheme correctly. If he’d pounced on the dive, North Dakota quarterback Tommy Schuster could have kept the ball for perhaps as many yards.

“My responsibility was quarterback,” Farmer said Monday. “It was a little tweak we had to make in our defense, because they were winding the ball all the way back into the hole. It wasn’t supposed to hit like that, but it hit like that.”
 
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What is the cause, how do we fix it? IMO, I think losing the interior D-Line from last year is killing us and need to figure it out in order to try and salvage something. I also think we need to be aggressive as hell. I feel like Chins is so scared to give up big plays that we lack aggression. At this point, move your corners up and dial up all kinds of blitzes. Isn't going to hurt anything because it seems like we play a ton better on D when we are being aggressive and trying to put the pressure on.

CB's - Haven't been bad and still think this is a bit of a strength,
Interior DL - Killing us. Not as bad when aggressive, but killing us
Rush Ends / OLB - A little better, but need to pick up their game. Have some talent there and need to get after it
ILB - Hasn't been good, but I think this has a lot to do with the D-Line play. Need to tackle better
Safety - Buford I like. He struggles at times, but at least plays hard as hell and is making some plays. I think it is time for Farmer to sit and try to get someone else in there
Agree. Interior (would love to see d boogieHave come back) and safety (not sure why not prioritize playing time according to tackling ability).
 
Garrett Nelson blaming Myles Farmer after a ND back gashed us for a 63 yard run was telling - it's not good when our players (the team captain and head cheerleader) don't even know the assignments (and it's never cool to call out a teammate like that).
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“He doesn’t need to jump out to the QB,” Nelson said of Farmer after the game. “He needs to tackle the dive.”

But Farmer, one of the quarterbacks of the defense, actually played the scheme correctly. If he’d pounced on the dive, North Dakota quarterback Tommy Schuster could have kept the ball for perhaps as many yards.

“My responsibility was quarterback,” Farmer said Monday. “It was a little tweak we had to make in our defense, because they were winding the ball all the way back into the hole. It wasn’t supposed to hit like that, but it hit like that.”
Wow - that is a terrible look from Nelson

not good when teammates are calling each other out following a game against the likes of North Dakota
 
Wow - that is a terrible look from Nelson

not good when teammates are calling each other out following a game against the likes of North Dakota
Yeah not good. The whole defense is just a shit show. Chinander has never, ever in his career fielded a top level defense. Even our defense last year, though improved, was just a slightly above average defense. You certainly could not rely on them when it counted. And Nelson is garnering all kinds of praise for his play on the field, but I think it it is only because he is the best player on an awful defense. In 1992-99 he would not have even been on the two deep.
 
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The problem has always been scheme. The problem has always been a terrible DC. the problems last year were somewhat covered up by stellar players making plays despite the coaches but once said players opted out or got hurt, the problems showed up again. The DL is weak, the LBs can't gap fill or cover the flat for shit, and the DBs always give a giant cushion. We can blame the players for fundamental mistakes here and there, but when it happens for 5 straight years... it's time for some of you to come to grips that chinander sucks
Mostly this.

Funny how the answer is always blitz more, like that helps when we are already trying it. If you were watching, that is what really caused some of the problems last week. Blitzing is fine but our history of doing it the last 4+ years is terrible. When we do run a zone blitz, it gets picked up easily and we give plenty of space to operate. Sure, everyone remembers when we bring a safety off the edge and down the line and when Doman was making plays from the edge but those were much fewer in reality but still stand out in our minds.

I harken back to the interview with McBride a few years ago where he seemed very frustrated with what Chins was doing and how it was putting stress on the players with no support. He seemed to catch himself before going too deep into what he was seeing based on TV as he couldn't see the entire field - that was his reason for stopping. He was clearly frustrated with what he saw.

Teams know how to attack Chins D and it will never change. Crossing paterns underneath and to the outside that put pressure on our LB's. Corners are not great in run support, when was the last great tackling DB we had? Our safety play is more prevent, two deep which totally invites the teams to run on us. Teams get RB's and slot receivers isolated on a safety of LB and when the QB sees that their eyes light up. Go back and watch the NW film, the QB knew exactly where to go with the ball every time. If not for their drops it would have been much worse.

A few questions or points:
Who doesn't want more take aways on D? That is like asking a guy if he wants more.... well,
When was the last time you saw our LB's meet the RB in the hole straight up?
Or even behind the line of scrimmage?
Or stringing a play out and cutting in behind the blockers? It just doesn't happen.
Tackling has always been a problem for this team, especially in our secondary.
Watch almost any other team and then watch Nebraska's front 7. We do not appear to be athletic, flexible and able to get off a block. Something is terribly wrong there.
When was the last time you saw a DL come clean through the line?
When was the last time you saw gang tackling either up the middle or to the outside?
When was the last time you saw the DL string a play out to the sideline with waves of players coming to make the tackle?

Putting different players in the same places with the same responsibilities is NOT going to solve the problem, sorry. That is just silly thinking. It is schematic. People complained about Bo's D and how difficult it was, well, that play with all the confusion against SD was a typical example of how difficult it can be to make the right read and right play. A false step here or there and you are a goner.

OK, so where are all of you who were touting Chins as the next HC?
 
Garrett Nelson blaming Myles Farmer after a ND back gashed us for a 63 yard run was telling - it's not good when our players (the team captain and head cheerleader) don't even know the assignments (and it's never cool to call out a teammate like that).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
“He doesn’t need to jump out to the QB,” Nelson said of Farmer after the game. “He needs to tackle the dive.”

But Farmer, one of the quarterbacks of the defense, actually played the scheme correctly. If he’d pounced on the dive, North Dakota quarterback Tommy Schuster could have kept the ball for perhaps as many yards.

“My responsibility was quarterback,” Farmer said Monday. “It was a little tweak we had to make in our defense, because they were winding the ball all the way back into the hole. It wasn’t supposed to hit like that, but it hit like that.”
Both players are probably right. Chins runs unsound defenses that leave players like Farmer to be responsible both the RB and the QB. He also drops players on 3rd and long giving up conversions instead of using pressure. Plays our safeties deep on 3rd down against teams like North Dakota giving up easy conversions.
 
Both players are probably right. Chins runs unsound defenses that leave players like Farmer to be responsible both the RB and the QB. He also drops players on 3rd and long giving up conversions instead of using pressure. Plays our safeties deep on 3rd down against teams like North Dakota giving up easy conversions.

Man defense would have won the NW game.

I hate his scheme


He still hasnt figure out they play conservative football in the BIG
 
chins needs to google "blitz packages" and incorporate into our game plans
qb's are getting too much time against our dl rush
seems like we make every qb we play against look like one of the manning boys
 
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my opinion is chins defensive scheme doesn’t work in the big 10, he should have the realized that after season two, the bend but don’t break philosophy doesn’t work in the big 10. You need to attack play man to man in the secondary, he has to have the record of giving up first downs when it’s third and long.
 
I'll be the odd person who thinks they'll come around. More Drew and Wynn will help. I think Mathis will come around, saw some positive pass rushing signs from him. Like what I've seen from our CBs. Think our LB and Nickels will play better than they have. I expect the tackling to be better. Guys who generally been ok have been missing them, including several that would have been TFLs.
 
agree. Chinander has been holding this team back. Not sure the answer, and as much as I love Ty Robinson, if he is struggling, Feist is even worse. We need to either get Robinson to turn it up or get someone else in there, Wynn, etc, who will. Ty and Nash are absolute beasts in the weight room. There is no reason they cant hold their own in the interior. Hoping to see some big improvement this weekend and in the coming weeks. we seem to play down to our competition
There's no reason for Ty Robinson to be as mediocre as he is. He has the genetic gifts to be a really good football player and it's high time he learn how to use them. There's no reason he shouldn't have been able to step up and fill Daniels shoes. And since we don't have that player that's stepped up, the whole front 7 is struggling. Nelson is the best defensive player on the team tells you all you need to know about the potential of this defense.
 
There's no reason for Ty Robinson to be as mediocre as he is. He has the genetic gifts to be a really good football player and it's high time he learn how to use them. There's no reason he shouldn't have been able to step up and fill Daniels shoes. And since we don't have that player that's stepped up, the whole front 7 is struggling. Nelson is the best defensive player on the team tells you all you need to know about the potential of this defense.


Alabama wanted him. It's the coaching.

NTs should be shorter.
 
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Defense is playing not to lose rather than win. DB's 5-10 yards off, the line playing a read n react defense. There is no attack, just contain. Still gave up over 500 yards to NW. For having a talent advantage against a lot of teams we play like we don't.

It's why tfl's and sacks are so rare.
 
Huskers have never ranked better than 66th nationally in opponent 3rd down conversion rate in the Chins era. Have to heat up the QBs on 3rd down or they will pick you apart.

You can play a conservative pass D and be successful, Iowa does it. Iowa stops the run though, which Chins defenses don't. Chins plays a defense that is leaky against the run and gives the offense easy throws. Worst of both worlds.
 
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Everyone who says the problem is coaching wins the prize…. ding ding ding!!!

I think talent is 25% of the problem, while coaching is 75%.
And any talent problems still go back to those who recruit the talent… so 100% coaching might be more accurate.

I may not be an X and O guy, but after an entire offseason of practice and/or years in the program, for so many players to look utterly confused over and over is an awful indictment.
PLENTY of teams do more with less. Period.
 
Anyone remember the last game where the defense won a game. Last I remember it was the Pelini era.
 
Anyone remember the last game where the defense won a game. Last I remember it was the Pelini era.
They actually played very well against Michigan State last year. The defense had the game won until the punter made a horrible screw up.
 
I wish I really knew, but the group seems hesitant with assignments and doesn't seem to fire off the ball. I don't know if we have the right group figured out right now up front. We better hope we see some better play up front and pretty quick or it's going to be a very long and sad season. We have enough talent to compete but there's just something not right with the boys in the trenches right now. With this being said I put most of the blame on those running the team and I don't need to spell out names, we already know who they are.
 
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Count me in as one who is disgruntled about Robinson and meh about Feist. Please! put Wynn and Drew in more! They're much lower and stout to handle the double teams that are so common in B1G football. It all starts in the middle of the d line.
 
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When a defense which on paper based on testing results has a lot of speed -- and we do -- and when that same defense in a game looks slow, confused, and hesitant, that is coaching. We were told in Frost's first year that Chin's defenses were high risk/reward since they were "attacking" defenses. What bullshit. Soft zone coverage, two deep safeties, and zero creativity in our blitz packages is what we got instead. We are horrible on third downs for two reasons that are related to that. First, on the rare occasion when a team has third and long we sit back and play soft hoping we can get to the QB with a four man rush. Second, teams are usually in third and short against us since their first down yardage is usually around 6-8 yards. Teams know that all you have to do on first down is throw a quick pass to the flat and you are almost guaranteed 7 yards. Then add in missed tackles when we do have a player in position to make a play and the recipe is complete.
 
Mathis has been called a disappointment, but he needs more snaps and has been a solid tackler against the run.
I don't think he has been a disappointment. He had 11 tackles vs. NW and is getting chipped, doubled, etc. He got a sack last week and was getting damn close on others. Is he absolutely killing it? No, but I think he is playing decent and is the least of our struggles.
 
You hear coaches talk about how great some of these players are practicing, but that's practice. You have two type players one is a great practice player but disappears during games. You have players who don't practice that great but show up in games.

I admit when I played I was a great practice player and below average game player and I guess I fooled the coaches who only saw what a great practice player I was. I'm not advocating playing all the poor practice players but I'm all for playing kids who show up during games even when it's a small sample size.

All we heard prior to the season was how great Robinson had progressed and how Feist was worthy of a blackshirt and he would surprise everyone, still waiting. I haven't seen too many on our defense who are worthy of blackshirts unless the coaches are going by practice standards, which they probably are. I'm hoping for a heavy dose of Wynn and Drew and let the others spell them, I think a change is needed.
 
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Very true. I have a daughter who often looks like one of our worst players in practice. Then the game starts and she's the one making all of the plays.
 
I think so much emphasis has been put on fixing the offense, that everyone glazed over the fact that we have had an average or below average D the entire time and maybe a coaching change was needed there 2 years ago. Yes, the Offense has struggled at times with drives, turnovers, putting the D in bad situations, but I feel like we would be winning the division every year if we had a kickass D. The offense has been plenty good. No, the big plays against us dont happen as much, and we dont get blown out as much, or at all, but we DO allow looong, clock eating drives, shitty shitty 3rd down conversion rates, and too many points. Cant get off the field to give our offense another shot at points. Not sure the answer, but just put some redbull in those dudes waterbottles, or something stronger. I want to see some pissed off D tackles.
 
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Mathis has been called a disappointment, but he needs more snaps and has been a solid tackler against the run.
I don't get why people are calling him a disappointment already. Tied for 2nd on the team in tackles and first in sacks. I like the way he diagnoses plays too and think he's only going to get better.
 
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Count me in as one who is disgruntled about Robinson and meh about Feist. Please! put Wynn and Drew in more! They're much lower and stout to handle the double teams that are so common in B1G football. It all starts in the middle of the d line.
Wynn seems to have pass rushing ability and Drew seems like a run stuffer even though Wynn is the bigger of the two. It would be nice if we could ever put all of those abilities in one frame.
 
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