Will the offensive talent around Martinez be better in 2021 than it was in 2018

poundth3rock

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Is anyone going to draft him as a 6'3" 300lb TE? No

That is like listing Johnny Stanton as a 4 star fullback or linebacker. He was a 4 star QB, that was moved to FB.

The point of listing a star rating is that those guys were high level recruits. We have three high level recruits (athlete) starting on o-line

Also, TE and Oline are fairly similar in traits necessary to succesful than Fullback to QB which are not.
 

Tuco Salamanca

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The point of listing a star rating is that those guys were high level recruits. We have three high level recruits (athlete) starting on o-line

Also, TE and Oline are fairly similar in traits necessary to succesful than Fullback to QB which are not.
I repeat, no one, when grading Cam Jurgens as a high school prospect, thought this dude will be a hell of an OLinemen. If I am recruiting a TE I am not projecting him as a center. Most TE that convert to OL are in the 6'5 or taller range, and usually move from TE to OT at the collegiate level.

The point remains, Nebraska doesn't have 3 4 star OL recruits in their projected starting 5
 

poundth3rock

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I repeat, no one, when grading Cam Jurgens as a high school prospect, thought this dude will be a hell of an OLinemen. If I am recruiting a TE I am not projecting him as a center. Most TE that convert to OL are in the 6'5 or taller range, and usually move from TE to OT at the collegiate level.

The point remains, Nebraska doesn't have 3 4 star OL recruits in their projected starting 5

If a guy is athletic enough to be a four star TE and also able to put on the weight to be a legit big ten lineman while also being able to jump 30+ then referring to him as a four star lineman is absolutely reasonable and in no way misleading as to potential of your oline.

Also the comparison of a fullback to a QB to try to make you point is flat our stupid.
 
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NebChicago

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Although I agree with the OPs pragmatic argument for our improvement (it just makes sense) I think the quality of opponents both in the B10W and cross over play is better on average than in previous years. Making for my own uncertainty
 

Tuco Salamanca

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If a guy is athletic enough to be a four star TE and also able to put on the weight to be a legit big ten lineman while also being able to jump 30+ then referring to him as a four star lineman is absolutely reasonable and in no way misleading as to potential of your oline.

Also the comparison of a fullback to a QB to try to make you point is flat our stupid.
Why is it stupid? No one is claiming Johnny boy was a 4 star FB recruit, even though he was a 4 star recruit. I mean it’s all about potential and all right? He is in the league, even though it’s a practice squad, as a FB.

As far as Jurgens goes, he didn’t put on the weight because the plan was to move him to OL from the jump. You are just looking for ways to make your point.
 

poundth3rock

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Although I agree with the OPs pragmatic argument for our improvement (it just makes sense) I think the quality of opponents both in the B10W and cross over play is better on average than in previous years. Making for my own uncertainty

As optimistic as I am this is why i don't predict a records.

OU and OSU are probably almost all but automatic losses for most teams. With our roster you would need a McKenzie Milton type at QB to win a games like that.

Then you look at Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan
Why is it stupid? No one is claiming Johnny boy was a 4 star FB recruit, even though he was a 4 star recruit. I mean it’s all about potential and all right? He is in the league, even though it’s a practice squad, as a FB.

As far as Jurgens goes, he didn’t put on the weight because the plan was to move him to OL from the jump. You are just looking for ways to make your point.

Sorry about the Snapiness. My wife is letting me play warzone and I am getting my ass handed to me by 20 somethings so a bit pissy at the moment .

May have to disagree on this one

I believe Jurgens is absolutely a high level recruit as an offensive lineman and I would bet you he gets drafted. I believe it is comletely fair to group him with Benhart and Corcoran as that level of recruit potential. If we are being honest, Piper a a similar talent as well.
 
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Tuco Salamanca

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As optimistic as I am this is why i don't predict a records.

OU and OSU are probably almost all but automatic losses for most teams. With our roster you would need a McKenzie Milton type at QB to win a games like that.

Then you look at Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan

Sorry about the Snapiness. My wife is letting me play warzone and I am getting my ass handed to me by 20 somethings so a bit pissy at the moment .

May have to disagree on this one

I believe Jurgens is absolutely a high level recruit as an offensive lineman and I would bet you he gets drafted. I believe it is comletely fair to group him with Benhart and Corcoran as that level of recruit potential. If we are being honest, Piper a a similar talent as well.
Dude it's a football message board, I don't usually take it all that seriously, no need to apologize.

I am just saying that if Stanton had stayed around and played fullback at Nebraska, I doubt anyone is saying "we have a 4 star recruit at FB" At Nebraska, he will always be viewed as a QB that didn't pan out, even though he is on an NFL roster as a RB.
 
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My arguement was actually yards and points which where 2nd and 5th in 2018. I indicated that I thought talent would be even better in 2021 and that yards would stay and 2 and points would move to 3 as a result of better defense (offense on field more) and more big plays with wide reciever resulting in PPG closing the gap from 2018. Its long but you can re-read if you need too.

I have looked at it. We simply did not wrack up our PPG and YPG yard because the Michigan, Wisconson and Purdue stretch that was uncompetitive. In fact the PPG and YPG were 450 and 30 overall but 478 and 37 (that would be 2nd) in the last 7 games when team went 4-3 and every game was 1 score and only had one non con to boost those numbers. That was driving the overall PPG-YPG in 2018 not some my mythical garbage time yardage and scoring crap you keep bringing up. We could easily adjust the yardage and points in those games based on what you think they would have been had the game been close but you and I both know that would not have changed the answer based on the impact the last 7 games had once they got the guys playing after the Martinez injury

I think you have a narrative that this goes against a potential conclusion that could be drawn from this and are simply unwilling to even consider anything else. Frost has multiple top 10 offenses as a coordinator. He had the number one scoring offense and won coach of the year honors as a HC at UFC. He statistically had a Top 2 and 5 YPG-PPG offense the one year he had roughly average game ready big ten talent with Martinez. Its perfectly reasonable for an optimistic person to take those things and be very hopeful about offense in 2021 based on talent both will have to work with. I would personally be very suprised if PPG and YPG are not in top 4 in 2021


So forget all your arguments for a second and answer the question I did

1. is the talent in 2018 worse, equal or better
2. what do you expect NU YPG and PPG rank to be for 2021.
I have no idea if the talent is worse, equal, or better. The rb situation is not good. There is some unproven talent at WR, but it is concerning that some of those guys couldn’t get on the filed and show much on last year’s squad. The QB is bad...we know that...why would you expect ANY improvement when we have seen nothing but regression the last two seasons? The OL may be slightly improved but the won’t be a top 2-3 unit in the division. I don’t see how any of this translates into us being a real contender for the west anywhere but on this message board...and the National and local media agree.
 

scarletred

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I have no idea if the talent is worse, equal, or better. The rb situation is not good. There is some unproven talent at WR, but it is concerning that some of those guys couldn’t get on the filed and show much on last year’s squad. The QB is bad...we know that...why would you expect ANY improvement when we have seen nothing but regression the last two seasons? The OL may be slightly improved but the won’t be a top 2-3 unit in the division. I don’t see how any of this translates into us being a real contender for the west anywhere but on this message board...and the National and local media agree.
Who’s saying or running back situation is not good again?.🤔
It not like last year..

Toure wasn’t here last year. Manning took longer than normal for him to adjust do to Covid. Oliver Marten just arrived late in the WR room and Betts did some good things his first year..
Not to mention all the ones coming back now are more athletic and know the offense better than last years group..

Where the offensive line unit is ranked will be known after the season but this potentially will be our best line since Frost arrived and better than Riley’s 3 years of offensive line play..
 

hedonistimpulse

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"we" need to stop including Jurgens star rating when discussing the OL. He was rated as a TE. When he came to Nebraska absolutely no one, who deals with ratings. thought he was moving to the OL.

So Nebraska has two 4 star OL and a 4 star TE playing Center. Thanks.
Rivals actually rated Jurgens as an Athlete as a recruit, not a TE.

 

HominidHusker

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If we can’t get the offensive wheels moving with the pieces we have, the blame falls squarely on the coaches.
I’m nervous/optimistic/measured about the potential, but on paper, we have enough to make it work.

While there’s reason for optimism on the OL, playing a redshirt frosh LT who only has 1 game against Rutgers is not ideal in the B1G. The good news is we technically had at least one other option he quickly surpassed as a true frosh.
 

kkotsch87

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"we" need to stop including Jurgens star rating when discussing the OL. He was rated as a TE. When he came to Nebraska absolutely no one, who deals with ratings. thought he was moving to the OL.

So Nebraska has two 4 star OL and a 4 star TE playing Center. Thanks.
exactly. If Cam was pushing 300 pounds in high school, with his athletic ability, he is easily a 5 star lineman.
 
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kkotsch87

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Why is it stupid? No one is claiming Johnny boy was a 4 star FB recruit, even though he was a 4 star recruit. I mean it’s all about potential and all right? He is in the league, even though it’s a practice squad, as a FB.

As far as Jurgens goes, he didn’t put on the weight because the plan was to move him to OL from the jump. You are just looking for ways to make your point.
I'm not sure how many All American Fullbacks are former quarterbacks. But I can tell you that there are many kids built just like Cam Jurgens in high school that have played O-line in the NFL. Tom Osborne's staff lived off these type of kids. Maybe, Just Maybe that is a major reason why Frost talked him into moving.
 
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poundth3rock

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I'm not sure how many All American Fullbacks are former quarterbacks. But I can tell you that there are many kids built just like Cam Jurgens in high school that have played O-line in the NFL. Tom Osborne's staff lived off these type of kids. Maybe, Just Maybe that is a major reason why Frost talked him into moving.

This is my thought on the matter

Referring to Cam as part of offensive line group that includes 3 four star or better players is in no way misleading to that groups perceived talent as recruits. I would even argue that he was a better offensive line prospect than TE given we now know he carry carry the weight and retain his explosiveness.