was found not guilty of sexual assault.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...r-quintez-cephus-back-lawyers-say/1942557001/
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...r-quintez-cephus-back-lawyers-say/1942557001/
UW accused of "slow walking" Cephus...
- Thread starter kikdakan
- Start date
They are doing their due diligence. Not guilty does not mean the alleged crime or a version of the crime didn’t happen.
Good to see their bar is set higher than “not guilty”
Good to see their bar is set higher than “not guilty”
His high profile teammates wrote a letter to the dean and did a press conference asking him to be reinstated. I am guessing the Wisky admins want nothing more than for this to go away and blow over without him being welcomed back.
Kinda on the kid's side here... falsely accused of rape and he gets acquitted. But if this becomes a huge distraction and ends up drawing any little bit of their focus away from the season, I won't hate it.
Kinda on the kid's side here... falsely accused of rape and he gets acquitted. But if this becomes a huge distraction and ends up drawing any little bit of their focus away from the season, I won't hate it.
OJ was also found not guilty. Not sure if I would let OJ back if he could still play.
Not guilty is not guilty. I'd be suing the school too at this point.
In the NFL? With numbers adjusted for inflation? Oh you bet they would let OJ back in a second. Well, maybe after a few months and the outrage dying down.
Doesn’t matter what the verdict in a court of law is, where the standard is “beyond a reasonable doubt”. In Title IX investigations the standard is a “preponderance of the evidence”.
Preponderance of the Evidence. Information that would persuade a reasonable person that a proposition is more probably true than not true. It is a lower standard of proof than “clear and convincing evidence”.
This is a lower standard than “beyond a reasonable doubt”. When it comes to Title IX sexual discrimination, sexual harassment or sexual assault investigations it does not matter what the verdict was in the court proceedings. In fact with Title IX there does not have to have been any charges filed or a court case.
Here is the link to UW’s Title IX page:
https://compliance.wisc.edu/titleix/
from what I've read about the case... I don't think they could meet a preponderance of the evidence standard either. The kid took the stand and gave his side of the story and the jury only took about 30 minutes to clear him. Either way, it's debatable and Wisky will want this to drag out so the kid has to go somewhere else
Schools are in a tough spot. Let's say you're a school administrator, and a male student has been accused of drugging and raping women on campus. In a fair world, maybe you could take no action until the matter is resolved in the legal system. After all he is innocent until proven guilty. But are you going to risk the safety of the women on campus while a potential serial rapist lives among them? Especially when the legal system can take years to resolve the matter? Even then, with plea bargains, prosecution mistakes, etc. the verdict may not be 100% reliable from an administrative point of view.
The school has little choice but to suspend the male student, or at a minimum, get them off campus with remote or online classes. Let the legal system work, and then make a final decision.
If that's too harsh for you, imagine it was a male teacher accused of molesting children at a preschool. Do you leave them on staff, performing their normal work duties, until the legal system plays out? Even if that takes three years? Even if every parent pulls their child out of school, leaving your reputation destroyed, and your business bankrupt?
Sometimes "innocent until proven guilty" isn't a practical standard when it comes to the person's involvement in activities at your school or place of employment.
The school has little choice but to suspend the male student, or at a minimum, get them off campus with remote or online classes. Let the legal system work, and then make a final decision.
If that's too harsh for you, imagine it was a male teacher accused of molesting children at a preschool. Do you leave them on staff, performing their normal work duties, until the legal system plays out? Even if that takes three years? Even if every parent pulls their child out of school, leaving your reputation destroyed, and your business bankrupt?
Sometimes "innocent until proven guilty" isn't a practical standard when it comes to the person's involvement in activities at your school or place of employment.
Title 9 "courts" are total bullshit. Case after case of ridiculousness with this stuff.
Or what if the male student didn't do anything wrong which is 99% more likely than your scenario. I knew some real jackasses in college but never met anyone that would have drugged and raped multiple women.
When my son was a freshman he went out of town for a weekend early in the school year. He came home Sunday to an email he received Friday late and a letter under his dorm room door. The letter said he had been accused of sexual harassment, assault, and stalking. The letter gave no information/details of what he had actually done or who had accused him. It did say he had a meeting with the Dean in 2 days and his housing would be cancelled in 3 days. While reading the letter there was a knock on the door and a very pissed off person from housing as the letter also said he had to immediately move to a different dorm across campus.He was told to grab one weeks worth of clothes, his school work and get out, bedding would be provided at the new room.
I drove to town and got him into a hotel with me and tried to research what was going on as he had no clue. We received no details until we met with the Dean. Essentially a girl that had a crush on him claimed he assaulted her when they were having a "dance contest" in a dorm room where he twerked in front of her and came into contact with her. She claimed he harassed her by making sexual jokes in mixed company. His RA added to the report that he stalked her because he had asked for her phone number a couple of times and asked her how a date had gone when she returned to the floor. All of the above were done within groups of 5 to 10 other students but he had been singled out.
After meeting with the Dean he could tell this was not a real title IX case and would most likely blow over as no real harm was done but he had to do his investigation and my son would remain kicked out of his dorm room during the investigation. Within a week the Dean told us it was not going anywhere but he still had people to talk to and to be patient. It turned out the accuser and her roommate were refusing to be interviewed. The accuser just wanted him out of her sight so she wouldn't meet with the Dean and her roommate knew it was all garbage but she didn't want to live in an uncomfortable room for the remainder of the year if she crossed her roommate. My son's best friend convinced the roommate to do the right thing and take the meeting.
This process took 3 months, all the while my son was living in a bare bones room, with none of his possessions (he was restricted from the building he originally lived in) with a potential punishment hanging over his head. Ultimately he was found responsible for violating the student code for harassment (unwelcome statements/jokes) and assault (unwelcome touching when he bumped her in the dance). The RA pulled herself out when asked "could he possibly have wanted a phone number to reach you in the event of an emergency?" and her response was "I don't give my number to male residents" and the Dean admonished her for that. His punishment was a letter in his file and he could not move back to his old room because it would have made the accuser uncomfortable but he was no longer restricted from entering the building.
Ultimately this was about as good a result as we could have hoped for but it derailed his first semester, his grades suffered, and has left him pretty jaded. Based on how this was handled I have gotten very familiar with these types of cases around the country and it is eye opening. You can imagine a high profile athlete it is much much worse.False or misconstrued actions are happening ever week and it is destroying male students academic and often times athletic careers.
There is a great website helpsaveoursons.com that details these types of events and every week there are at least a couple cases that are going to court. Guys are standing up for themselves and suing to be reinstated after they have been found not guilty or not charged in the legal system, and they are winning. I imagine Cephus will have a very strong case against Wisconsin if he pursues it.
I drove to town and got him into a hotel with me and tried to research what was going on as he had no clue. We received no details until we met with the Dean. Essentially a girl that had a crush on him claimed he assaulted her when they were having a "dance contest" in a dorm room where he twerked in front of her and came into contact with her. She claimed he harassed her by making sexual jokes in mixed company. His RA added to the report that he stalked her because he had asked for her phone number a couple of times and asked her how a date had gone when she returned to the floor. All of the above were done within groups of 5 to 10 other students but he had been singled out.
After meeting with the Dean he could tell this was not a real title IX case and would most likely blow over as no real harm was done but he had to do his investigation and my son would remain kicked out of his dorm room during the investigation. Within a week the Dean told us it was not going anywhere but he still had people to talk to and to be patient. It turned out the accuser and her roommate were refusing to be interviewed. The accuser just wanted him out of her sight so she wouldn't meet with the Dean and her roommate knew it was all garbage but she didn't want to live in an uncomfortable room for the remainder of the year if she crossed her roommate. My son's best friend convinced the roommate to do the right thing and take the meeting.
This process took 3 months, all the while my son was living in a bare bones room, with none of his possessions (he was restricted from the building he originally lived in) with a potential punishment hanging over his head. Ultimately he was found responsible for violating the student code for harassment (unwelcome statements/jokes) and assault (unwelcome touching when he bumped her in the dance). The RA pulled herself out when asked "could he possibly have wanted a phone number to reach you in the event of an emergency?" and her response was "I don't give my number to male residents" and the Dean admonished her for that. His punishment was a letter in his file and he could not move back to his old room because it would have made the accuser uncomfortable but he was no longer restricted from entering the building.
Ultimately this was about as good a result as we could have hoped for but it derailed his first semester, his grades suffered, and has left him pretty jaded. Based on how this was handled I have gotten very familiar with these types of cases around the country and it is eye opening. You can imagine a high profile athlete it is much much worse.False or misconstrued actions are happening ever week and it is destroying male students academic and often times athletic careers.
There is a great website helpsaveoursons.com that details these types of events and every week there are at least a couple cases that are going to court. Guys are standing up for themselves and suing to be reinstated after they have been found not guilty or not charged in the legal system, and they are winning. I imagine Cephus will have a very strong case against Wisconsin if he pursues it.
This makes me angry just reading it. The bad part is that girl probably just went on like nothing, but in my eyes something should have happened to her. I'm glad I am out of college and don't have to worry about this stuff. College is a scary place for males right now. The days of consensual relations is on the ropes.
That is true but it isn't right. Basically that is saying that the court system ruling doesn't really matter...now anyone can be like "Yeah, he "R'ed" me" and a precedent has been set that the kid accused is gone with the wind.
Girls know the power that they have...Luckily most do not abuse it but there are some that do and it sucks.
Definitely agree with you guys but it isn't much better in the professional domain. Many years ago before the metoo stuff, there was a girl in the ops dept that loved attention. She was notorious with on-the-edge clothing. She was a young tortured soul with acceptance issues but she was married.
When I started working there some co-workers said to steer clear of her. Easy for me, I never "fish" from the company dock, so I was always professionally bland with her. I noticed her demeanor was different depending on whether she was talking to males (wink & a smile) or females (withdrawn & formal). Fast forward 14 months and a few of us were in the parking lot coming back from lunch and laughing it up. The girl walks by on her way out and said "hi" and we all said "hi" with minimal eye contact and then went back to laughing about whatever.
Later that afternoon all three of us were called into HR and the allegation: we made the girl feel uncomfortable, were laughing at her, made sexual comments toward her and she felt threatened. The whole process went on for about a month and it was a shit show. I was pissed and was the first one to be "cleared" after I threatened to sue the shit out of everyone involved. I also had 4 female co-workers come to my defense. The other two guys were cleared 2 weeks later. It was a very shitty process which was designed from the perspective of “you’re guilty as shit.”
The 3 of us were told to "watch what we say around her" although we didn't say anything in her presence. HR and management said they knew her personality type and everything in their investigation led them to feel like her story was probably fabricated because she felt like she was excluded. The shit was fabricated but she kept her job with zero fall-out on her side. Two guys were moved to different buildings and I was moved to different floor in the building.
ZJ- There is a little bit more to the story. The girl had made some self harm statements in the week or two leading up to the accusation and her friends (my son included) contacted the school and she was forced to meet with a mental health person. The mental health professional stated her issues were beyond their capabilities and referred her to someone more qualified. The girl never went, the school never forced it, and the school ignored this in the investigation of my son.
The girl did go on like nothing had happened and continued to bash my son to anyone that would listen to her. Once convinced to tell her story, the roommate moved out, leaving the accuser alone and no one would talk to her the rest of the year once the facts of the story about my son got out. She sat in her room and cried most of the remainder of the year and transferred schools the following year.
It worked out overall as my son kept his friends and life (for the most part) on campus and she suffered. It definitely started him on the wrong foot and put him in a deep academic hole but he is a stronger person now. He is very wary of women and is very careful in interactions but given the climate of today that is probably a good thing.
The girl did go on like nothing had happened and continued to bash my son to anyone that would listen to her. Once convinced to tell her story, the roommate moved out, leaving the accuser alone and no one would talk to her the rest of the year once the facts of the story about my son got out. She sat in her room and cried most of the remainder of the year and transferred schools the following year.
It worked out overall as my son kept his friends and life (for the most part) on campus and she suffered. It definitely started him on the wrong foot and put him in a deep academic hole but he is a stronger person now. He is very wary of women and is very careful in interactions but given the climate of today that is probably a good thing.
Sacrificing liberties for safety leads to neither.
When we undervalue our constitution,it leads to this.
Placing ones rights over another, when both are equal is whats been happening here.
Penalties should be worse for false informations, as its harder or sometimes impossible to prove you're innocent when you're already seen as guilty before anything happens.
Slippery slope folks.
Take into effects of team structure, program deterioration, loss of trust etc.
You can have a job where any violation against you must be reported, and depending on violations, effect your job status, but, its done through the courts,or, you have to be found guilty first, not so here.
When we undervalue our constitution,it leads to this.
Placing ones rights over another, when both are equal is whats been happening here.
Penalties should be worse for false informations, as its harder or sometimes impossible to prove you're innocent when you're already seen as guilty before anything happens.
Slippery slope folks.
Take into effects of team structure, program deterioration, loss of trust etc.
You can have a job where any violation against you must be reported, and depending on violations, effect your job status, but, its done through the courts,or, you have to be found guilty first, not so here.
Bar not necessarily higher, but a different bar altogether — that of a university’s student code of conduct. Students who are deemed to have violated university codes of conduct can be punished by a university regardless of how the criminal justice system addresses an issue. Is the not guilty verdict even relevant? Sure, but students are punished every day for code of conduct violations that would never even result in a criminal charge. Ever heard of a student being criminally charged for cheating on exams? His attorneys are making a noisy bluff.
As for the posts speculating on the facts of this case and posts about other similar cases, there surely are innocent people punished under criminal codes and university codes of conduct. However, we have no idea if UW is being unfair under the rules of student conduct. For example, it is highly unlikely code of conduct violations require proof beyond a reasonable doubt like criminal statutes. Also, UW cannot violate student privacy rights by revealing their findings, but the student’s lawyers can/are saying anything they like.
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So, in order not to lose your liberties and or rights, just make sure the charges ARENT frivolous enough to actually have them?
Then, after having them, and being found not guilty, you lose them to a university?
Comparing frivolous occurrences when it in itself never addresses guilt or innocence vs being found innocent, no, its not the same things, sorry.
Then, after having them, and being found not guilty, you lose them to a university?
Comparing frivolous occurrences when it in itself never addresses guilt or innocence vs being found innocent, no, its not the same things, sorry.
