Sledge

[OzzyLvr]

From listening to people who know OL, ot comes back to a technique thing. No issues with intensity. No clue about S&C stuff.

I actually don’t think he is downright terrible. Our run blocking has improved a bit this season, and somehow Benhart has actually gotten better. But prior to injury, Corcoran looked lost on most plays. I don’t truly believe that falls squarely on TC’s shoulders. Pass blocking has been poor overall, and that usually comes back to technical stuff with hands, knees and feet philosophy.

thanks! And yet, Rhule hired him because of the technique he teaches. He was looking for a disciple of Harry Hiestand and found one on the previous staff. I bet the problem your people have is that they are looking at it from a different lens. Not from the Harry Hiestand lens.

I don't know the difference in technique between Hiestand and anyone else but it's obvious that Rhule does. Just because teacher A teaches a technique different than what teacher B teaches doesn't make it wrong, just different. Do they get the same or better results? That, to me, is the question. TC has looked lost on most plays for years - probably because he's playing out of his true position (most likely). TC, imho, does a better job run blocking than pass blocking by far. If it doesn't fall on TCs shoulders, whose does it fall on? He's looked the same under multiple coaches. IMHO, Piper has improved & Benhart has improved. Nouilli looks pretty solid as does Scott. I'd love for them to have improved more than what it seems but I do believe they are better. TC just hasn't really gotten better but he tries to do what he's asked. I do remember one (I wish it would happen more often) pass play where TC was getting bull rushed and it looked like he was going to get pushed right into HH. Somehow, he plants his foot and holds his ground and HH was able to get the pass off. Different type of rush by the DE that TC had more success with.

If you get a chance, go back & rewatch the offense in the IL & NW games. There are several plays in both games where they are blocking a pin & pull running play but bringing the backside TE along with the backside guard instead of both guards. You'll notice that the pin blocks are done well. The backside guard kicks out the DE and the TE then is left to pick up the LB or S filling in the hole. Unfortunately, almost every time, the TE (mainly 87) misses his block and the RB is dead in the hole for little to no gain. Is that the fault of the OL? Is that the fault of the OL Coach? There was even a play in the NW game where they used 84 instead of the TE - and he missed the block as well. Yet those plays are part of what the "fans" are complaining about. It "looks" like the OL is missing blocks but it was the TE that missed the block. Does the OL miss blocks they shouldn't? Absolutely - all do from time to time.

 

[king_kong_]

thanks! And yet, Rhule hired him because of the technique he teaches. He was looking for a disciple of Harry Hiestand and found one on the previous staff. I bet the problem your people have is that they are looking at it from a different lens. Not from the Harry Hiestand lens.

I don't know the difference in technique between Hiestand and anyone else but it's obvious that Rhule does. Just because teacher A teaches a technique different than what teacher B teaches doesn't make it wrong, just different. Do they get the same or better results? That, to me, is the question. TC has looked lost on most plays for years - probably because he's playing out of his true position (most likely). TC, imho, does a better job run blocking than pass blocking by far. If it doesn't fall on TCs shoulders, whose does it fall on? He's looked the same under multiple coaches. IMHO, Piper has improved & Benhart has improved. Nouilli looks pretty solid as does Scott. I'd love for them to have improved more than what it seems but I do believe they are better. TC just hasn't really gotten better but he tries to do what he's asked. I do remember one (I wish it would happen more often) pass play where TC was getting bull rushed and it looked like he was going to get pushed right into HH. Somehow, he plants his foot and holds his ground and HH was able to get the pass off. Different type of rush by the DE that TC had more success with.

If you get a chance, go back & rewatch the offense in the IL & NW games. There are several plays in both games where they are blocking a pin & pull running play but bringing the backside TE along with the backside guard instead of both guards. You'll notice that the pin blocks are done well. The backside guard kicks out the DE and the TE then is left to pick up the LB or S filling in the hole. Unfortunately, almost every time, the TE (mainly 87) misses his block and the RB is dead in the hole for little to no gain. Is that the fault of the OL? Is that the fault of the OL Coach? There was even a play in the NW game where they used 84 instead of the TE - and he missed the block as well. Yet those plays are part of what the "fans" are complaining about. It "looks" like the OL is missing blocks but it was the TE that missed the block. Does the OL miss blocks they shouldn't? Absolutely - all do from time to time.

we'll find out this offseason whether Rhule retained him because of his coaching ability or because of his nephew

if the former, he'll keep his job. if the latter, he'll be let go

I know where my money's at

 

[TruHusker]

we'll find out this offseason whether Rhule retained him because of his coaching ability or because of his nephew

if the former, he'll keep his job. if the latter, he'll be let go

I know where my money's at

OK, now I have to question this. You make this conditional because of his "coaching ability" when you have clearly stated repeatedly ad nauseum that he was only retained because of his nephew. Which is it or is it both which then makes Rhule look like a fool. You are saying Rhule knows he doesn't have the chops to do the job and was willing to risk that development for the sake of a pipe dream QB?

Further, there are at least two on the staff who have coached the OL, Satterfield and Rhule himself. Its not like he doesn't have some mentors and someone to critique his coaching on staff.

I say all this without prejudice, Rhule is the one that has to live with it. What I do know is Nebraska fans have not been happy with a single OL coach since Tenopir.

 

[king_kong_]

OK, now I have to question this. You make this conditional because of his "coaching ability" when you have clearly stated repeatedly ad nauseum that he was only retained because of his nephew. Which is it or is it both which then makes Rhule look like a fool. You are saying Rhule knows he doesn't have the chops to do the job and was willing to risk that development for the sake of a pipe dream QB?

Further, there are at least two on the staff who have coached the OL, Satterfield and Rhule himself. Its not like he doesn't have some mentors and someone to critique his coaching on staff.

I say all this without prejudice, Rhule is the one that has to live with it. What I do know is Nebraska fans have not been happy with a single OL coach since Tenopir.

Rhule and Satt's experience coaching the OL allowed them the opportunity to retain Raiola in hopes it would help recruit his nephew.

I have been firm on this stance since last Dec.

Rhule is extremely hands on, so I do not believe a year of micromanagement sacrifices much in terms of development.

If Raiola is retained past this season, it will be because of his coaching ability and I will be proven wrong.

 

[Laner2]

Actully enjoying this thread. I don't mind a little heat as long as there's some light too.

 

[maplesyrup95]

thanks! And yet, Rhule hired him because of the technique he teaches. He was looking for a disciple of Harry Hiestand and found one on the previous staff. I bet the problem your people have is that they are looking at it from a different lens. Not from the Harry Hiestand lens.

I don't know the difference in technique between Hiestand and anyone else but it's obvious that Rhule does. Just because teacher A teaches a technique different than what teacher B teaches doesn't make it wrong, just different. Do they get the same or better results? That, to me, is the question. TC has looked lost on most plays for years - probably because he's playing out of his true position (most likely). TC, imho, does a better job run blocking than pass blocking by far. If it doesn't fall on TCs shoulders, whose does it fall on? He's looked the same under multiple coaches. IMHO, Piper has improved & Benhart has improved. Nouilli looks pretty solid as does Scott. I'd love for them to have improved more than what it seems but I do believe they are better. TC just hasn't really gotten better but he tries to do what he's asked. I do remember one (I wish it would happen more often) pass play where TC was getting bull rushed and it looked like he was going to get pushed right into HH. Somehow, he plants his foot and holds his ground and HH was able to get the pass off. Different type of rush by the DE that TC had more success with.

If you get a chance, go back & rewatch the offense in the IL & NW games. There are several plays in both games where they are blocking a pin & pull running play but bringing the backside TE along with the backside guard instead of both guards. You'll notice that the pin blocks are done well. The backside guard kicks out the DE and the TE then is left to pick up the LB or S filling in the hole. Unfortunately, almost every time, the TE (mainly 87) misses his block and the RB is dead in the hole for little to no gain. Is that the fault of the OL? Is that the fault of the OL Coach? There was even a play in the NW game where they used 84 instead of the TE - and he missed the block as well. Yet those plays are part of what the "fans" are complaining about. It "looks" like the OL is missing blocks but it was the TE that missed the block. Does the OL miss blocks they shouldn't? Absolutely - all do from time to time.

I don’t know who to attribute the Corcoran issues to. Because clearly, Benhart has improved. Hard telling if that’s Raiola’s doing or outside coaching.

I am also curious about the Hiestand-Rhule discipling. I will say that just because Raiola learned OL philosophy from the same guy that Rhule did does not necessarily mean that those iterations are the same. Raiola played at Wisconsin and soaked up a lot from his days playing for Alvarez.

I’ll have to watch TE vs OL blocking more closely the last 5 games.

 

[MissoulaHusker]

Rhule and Satt's experience coaching the OL allowed them the opportunity to retain Raiola in hopes it would help recruit his nephew.

I have been firm on this stance since last Dec.

Rhule is extremely hands on, so I do not believe a year of micromanagement sacrifices much in terms of development.

If Raiola is retained past this season, it will be because of his coaching ability and I will be proven wrong.

This is where I have been on this too. Foley also has a lot of experience coaching OL, if I remember correctly. It’s pointless to look for clues in Rhule’s public comments. We know what type he is in that regard — he’s going to be professional and is not going to denigrate staff or players.

But who knows what Rhule thinks privately—maybe only Satterfield.

It will be interesting to see what he does with Raiola because Rhule also strikes me as cutthroat when he needs to be. If Raiola is retained Rhule obviously thinks he will be great in all areas needed (recruiting included). Having a nephew who is the #1-rated HS QB was certainly in the “pro” column for retaining Raiola but I don’t think we know if it was the determining factor.

 

[huskerfan66]

There is a guy who is much more familiar with Raiola's coaching abilities than I am and it just so happens that this same guy makes the decision on whether Raiola will be employed at NU after the season. The oline was asked to do one thing for four years of Frost/Austin, then another thing for Whipple/Raiola and now another very different offensive approach with Rhule/Raiola.

AND if Rhule was so worried about the OL, I would think he'd be helping with that rather than working with the scout team. Maybe that's just me

 

[Laner2]

I don’t know who to attribute the Corcoran issues to. Because clearly, Benhart has improved. Hard telling if that’s Raiola’s doing or outside coaching.

I am also curious about the Hiestand-Rhule discipling. I will say that just because Raiola learned OL philosophy from the same guy that Rhule did does not necessarily mean that those iterations are the same. Raiola played at Wisconsin and soaked up a lot from his days playing for Alvarez.

I’ll have to watch TE vs OL blocking more closely the last 5 games.

I think we're eventually going to find that Corc was playing tackle solely as a sacrifice for the team. He seems to be a natural guard who is playing out of position, based on what I see of his feet.

I know I'm stringing a few "ifs" in here but Ozzy made a great point above that while the Oline recruits under Frost were generally high three and some four star guys, they were trained until one and a half years ago by Greg Austin, who I respect as a former player but not much as an Oline coach. The matter is further compounded, like Ozzy said, by now three different OCs (Frost, Whipple, Satt) who wanted different things out of the line.

Given all this I can understand why the line has performed as it has. Not pleased about it, but can understand why.

 

[JOHNNY N]

Rhule and Satt's experience coaching the OL allowed them the opportunity to retain Raiola in hopes it would help recruit his nephew.

I have been firm on this stance since last Dec.

Rhule is extremely hands on, so I do not believe a year of micromanagement sacrifices much in terms of development.

If Raiola is retained past this season, it will be because of his coaching ability and I will be proven wrong.

Apparently everyone on staff is coaching the oline except Raiola. Lofl. Good one bud.

 

[JOHNNY N]

my issue lies predominantly with his lack of recruiting experience.

Nebraska is not a place for a person who oversees the most important group on offense to learn on the job.

Who is learning on the job?

 

[dinglefritz]

Gotcha

We have King’s word on it🙄

 

[dinglefritz]

OK, now I have to question this. You make this conditional because of his "coaching ability" when you have clearly stated repeatedly ad nauseum that he was only retained because of his nephew. Which is it or is it both which then makes Rhule look like a fool. You are saying Rhule knows he doesn't have the chops to do the job and was willing to risk that development for the sake of a pipe dream QB?

Further, there are at least two on the staff who have coached the OL, Satterfield and Rhule himself. Its not like he doesn't have some mentors and someone to critique his coaching on staff.

I say all this without prejudice, Rhule is the one that has to live with it. What I do know is Nebraska fans have not been happy with a single OL coach since Tenopir.

Exactly. Mic Drop

 

[king_kong_]

Who is learning on the job?

Raiola had never recruited a day in his life prior to coming here

he is learning on the job

unless you are saying he has it mastered now?

 

[king_kong_]

Apparently everyone on staff is coaching the oline except Raiola. Lofl. Good one bud.

anyone who has ever managed a team understands the 80/20 rule.

 

[Yantzeee]

Does anyone remember Mark Pelini and Ryan Reeves shitshow? Barney and Bo both swore Mark was the better of the two, but Mark continued to suck. We criticized Mark like we do Turner. Anyways, Eventually (and I think it was against NW) I think mark got hurt or something but Ryne Reeves came in and the line looked night and day. We went from losing to winning pretty big.

Some people think Mark was playing cause his uncle. maybe so. Could also be he was a practice champ. but some people can’t play well in front of fans and some people play their best in front of fans. I’m really hoping that tomorrow we see a line that we go “why haven’t we been using this unit all year”. And honestly there’s a reasonable chance of that… I think a change will do us good

I miss seeing holes continuously opening up for the backs.Feel like EJ will be explosive if he could just get some space

 

[dinglefritz]

Does anyone remember Mark Pelini and Ryan Reeves shitshow? Barney and Bo both swore Mark was the better of the two, but Mark continued to suck. We criticized Mark like we do Turner. Anyways, Eventually (and I think it was against NW) I think mark got hurt or something but Ryne Reeves came in and the line looked night and day. We went from losing to winning pretty big.

Some people think Mark was playing cause his uncle. maybe so. Could also be he was a practice champ. but some people can’t play well in front of fans and some people play their best in front of fans. I’m really hoping that tomorrow we see a line that we go “why haven’t we been using this unit all year”. And honestly there’s a reasonable chance of that… I think a change will do us good

I miss seeing holes continuously opening up for the backs.Feel like EJ will be explosive if he could just get some space

Hopefully we’ve just been saving redshirts

 

[JOHNNY N]

anyone who has ever managed a team understands the 80/20 rule.

Raiola had never recruited a day in his life prior to coming here

he is learning on the job

unless you are saying he has it mastered now?

He sure seems to be getting a lot out of that group. I'm sure your 80/20 rule applies.

 

[king_kong_]

He sure seems to be getting a lot out of that group. I'm sure your 80/20 rule applies.

numbers say otherwise

essentially the exact same as last year

 

[pascal]

What's your issue with Raiola? Does he teach bad technique? Does he not have intense practices? Does he need to stay out of S&C?

The question and answer is simple, how effective has he been?. You want excellence? Hire it.
Ex.
Tony White. Hire the OL version of White, then you won't have to wonder. Won't need excuses or perennially blame former head coaches.

 

[JOHNNY N]

numbers say otherwise

essentially the exact same as last year

The numbers don't say otherwise. As a matter of fact they say that Donnie is doing a pretty damn good job with that group.

Always facing an 8 man box, sometimes 9, because the qb isn't a passing threat and we're down to 4th string rb.

This can be tough to understand for people who only look at the "numbers" and think that things happen in a vacuum. Don't be afraid of context.

 

[dinglefritz]

The numbers don't say otherwise. As a matter of fact they say that Donnie is doing a pretty damn good job with that group.

Always facing an 8 man box, sometimes 9, because the qb isn't a passing threat and we're down to 4th string rb.

This can be tough to understand for people who only look at the "numbers" and think that things happen in a vacuum. Don't be afraid of context.

And now they’ll bitch when we start 3 back up underclassmen O linemen and they struggle. Emotional irrational illogical fans. 🙄

 

[JOHNNY N]

And now they’ll bitch when we start 3 back up underclassmen O linemen and they struggle. Emotional irrational illogical fans. 🙄

For all I know @king_kong could be right and Rhule is gonna find a new OL coach after the season. I just don't believe the "numbers" are giving a complete picture of what's going on. The offense as a whole has issues that are beyond the control of the OL coach, even if those things effect his group.

 

[dinglefritz]

The question and answer is simple, how effective has he been?. You want excellence? Hire it.
Ex.
Tony White. Hire the OL version of White, then you won't have to wonder. Won't need excuses or perennially blame former head coaches.

It might be that White took over a more talented group than Satterfield. QB is the most important position on your team. Lots of experienced guys and very talented youngsters playing for White. Knock on wood White hasn’t had to deal with the injuries Satt has.

 

[huskerfan66]

It might be that White took over a more talented group than Satterfield. QB is the most important position on your team. Lots of experienced guys and very talented youngsters playing for White. Knock on wood White hasn’t had to deal with the injuries Satt has.

Hey dingle, not wanting to hijack this just a quick timeout, is it snowing up there?? I turned on news channel Nebraska and Wayne state vs augustana fb game was on and field was shoveled to see the lines. I assume it was a live game. Thanks

 

[dinglefritz]

Hey dingle, not wanting to hijack this just a quick timeout, is it snowing up there?? I turned on news channel Nebraska and Wayne state vs augustana fb game was on and field was shoveled to see the lines. I assume it was a live game. Thanks

Yes. About 3” so far.

 

[huskerfan66]

Yes. About 3” so far.

Wow. Good day to be watching fb then 😌