Gonna have to go into detail on that. I've got a couple of pairs from the 80s that I got when I bought my business but they are larger and rarely leave the shop. The smaller ones that I keep in my pouch and use regularly aren't much different in functionality than the older ones. FWIW, I've been in business for 21 years and cycle through tools regularly. If I'm gonna bitch about the quality of something changing over that time it isn't vise-grips, its #2 Phillips screwdrivers. It used to be that a Klein screwdriver would last 3 or 4 years, now its a fraction of that. Greenlee, ideal, Milwaukee, Stanley.....all shit now. Even the frigging 35 dollar insulated screwdrivers I buy are basically trash in a couple of months.
OT - Trying to “buy American”
- Thread starter Lincoln100
- Start date
thats disappointing.
starting in the 80’s i remember business professors claiming how much better it’d be for business to move us manufacturing offshore - labor and taxes would keep costs down AND quality would get better. example used was japan auto manufacturing. they just didnt consider the difference in asian cultures and economies.
the question is would people pay 2-3 times or much more for better quality in certain products and id say, yes.
I would and I pretty much already do because I'm buying 3 or 4 at a shot, knowing that they won't last.
In theory the "buy American" sounds great and would be great for our economy and jobs, etc, etc, I get it and agree....but Americans would eventually go back to buying it cheaper at Walmart and won't care where it's made. Budgets are stretched to thin for most, and salaries aren't keeping up with inflation, and sooner rather than later they're going to forget about what China did to us and buy anything they can for less, regardless of where it is made. Sad, but true I'm afraid. Even today, with China puffing out it's chest and threatening us with a "cold war"...people will forget. I'd be shocked if this fresh new "buy American" lasts even two months after the corona hysteria and current over reaction ends.
True. On certain things and for too many people, its cheap cheap cheap.
I was willing to pay hundreds for All-Clad pots and pans. Made in US and best pans out there imo. Be able to give to one of my kids. But most dont value quality that much and some simply can't afford to.
Also have Wusthoff knives. Would have gone American if there were a good American kitchen knife manufacturer. But again many aren't willing or able to "invest" in such things. Instead its cheap stamped chinesium blades they can buy a new set for $20 in a couple years.
I don't know how much of this throw away get more mentality is our own doing and how much is planned by manufacturers.
Heard a great interview a very long time ago from an exec at an American car company, don't remember which, but he said something I found fascinating. I might get a word or two wrong, but this will be very close..."As a car manufacturer we have to walk a very fine line with the cars we make. We want them to be considered dependable and long lasting, but not make them so long lasting so-as the consumer doesn't need another car for 20 years because then our sales wouldn't be high enough to stay in business".
we buy too much from them.
most of it we don't use or need.
when i look at the junk in my house, i wonder how much will some day end up being pooped out of a 3d printer back here in the US.
may not do a ton for jobs, but it'll provide some.
if not already.
some items (like crazyhole mentioned) will need more craftsmanship and will have a market.
most of it we don't use or need.
when i look at the junk in my house, i wonder how much will some day end up being pooped out of a 3d printer back here in the US.
may not do a ton for jobs, but it'll provide some.
if not already.
some items (like crazyhole mentioned) will need more craftsmanship and will have a market.
China didn't do anything to us to make me buy American. I'm making my purchasing decisions based on quality and duribility. I buy enough Chinese stuff. I'm going to make a concerted effort to buy American made whenever possible.
I'm all for it....but will disagree on what China did to us. They effed us over, and what they did has a lot of peoole not wanting to do biz with them as a result.
Exactly. If anyone thinks it’s not possible to make a washer/dryer/TV/etc that’s lasts until the end of time, then I don’t know what to say.
Thank all the MBAs out there. Such amazing smart people. Business ethics basically tossed out the window the past two decades. That's American companies as well. Probably the saddest example I have seen is German automobiles. They turned their cars into pieces of junk on purpose.
Is this sarcasm and I could not detect? Business majors are the smart people now?
Edit: nevermind...I’m a jack@ss who can’t read
We as Americans have become somewhat lazy though and don't always provide a great product, or upgrade the facilities as time moves forward. On a job I worked on in Alaska we had our executives go visit a steel plant in China to see how their product was as we were going to be able to utilize a waiver for buy America on steel if the price was right in order to build a 200M dollar bridge. The executives were amazed how modern, clean, and quality driven the Chinese plant was. It was leaps and bounds better than any facility in the US. We also did some testing against US steel and it outperformed the US product as well. Point I'm making it once upon a time we tried to be at the cutting edge of everything and make superior products. I feel like a lot of that has gone away.
Too true.
Instead in my experience (and I think ive been lucky with appliances)
--Bearing goes out on 6 or 7 year old front loading washer. 600-700 to fix it. F- that. Just bought a new one. And as the repairman told me, went high efficiency TOP loader. Never buy a front loader again.
--TV. Had for a few years. Died. Thought it was power board. Ordered a new one for $50. Nope. Wasnt it. That leaves main board from trouble shooting. $60-70 for that. Garbage now as Im not sinking more into a TV when I could replace on a black friday deal with something newer and "better".
--Refridgerator have had freezer fan and mainboard go. $400 to fix. Anything more and might as well throw it away and buy new as its not worth it.
Now it sounds like Crazyhole is dealing with planned obselescence even in f-ing screwdrivers. Gotta love the modern way to make money.
Always check the capacitors on expensive electronics that go bad. Fairly cheap and easy fix if you're willing to put in the time to repair. I should add, always make sure they are fully discharged before messing with them.
Pretty sure I looked at the capacitors on the boards. None looked blown. From what I read it was likely the cpu burning out from overheating. Think they cheap out on the heatsink and thermal compound between the sink and cpu.
IMO, there's a huge difference although on the surface unnoticeable. The ones that were stamped with Dewitt ne are better than the ones that don't. Jaws are better and fine tuning the adjustment is better.
It was posted made in China doesn't necessarily equate to junk. That's true. However overtime they tend to not use the same metals and alloys, cut corners and don't machine them as well.
I've been told people are having trouble using fluid in tubes in tires. Valve stems are corroding because they changed the metals used and not compatible with calcium.
Vise grips stamped Petersen Mfg are the best. Later ones made in Dewitt weren't
Last edited:
I'd rather deal with Mexico and create jobs there and on our continent. Relationship with Canada and Mexico are important for national security
Absolutely. A friend who used to do custom hay work clued me in on that for my baler. Huge difference.
false. I sell all the major brands and Milwaukee is not the best unless you are talking about marketing and giving away stuff. Makita and Dewalt have a ton of their tools make here in the US while Milwaukee is not only owned by a Chinese company, every single thing is made in China.
even with that said Milwaukee has a higher price point now due to tariffs.
We more or less live in a growth at all costs society. How's GE supposed to grow if 160 million American households buy a washer and then let 2 generations of Americans after them inherit them? They don't. They need to export. They need things to die. They need a new widget that makes people want a new one long before even a marginal quality item is thrown out long before its useful life has been exhausted.
China is capable of making some of the best stuff on the planet if the company will spec and pay for it. Most don't, it's just another way to cut costs while you are off shoring. And most people won't notice quite honestly.
Everyone keeps trying to blame the investor class, but basically since retirements became unhitched from pensions and into stocks en force in the Reagan era, we all became the "investor class" via 401Ks etc. Anyone who plans to retire anyway. No one is going to retire stuffing money into a bank or hiding it in a mattress.
False as in "my opinion is that Milwaukee isn't the best", or false as in ????????
I mean, if we really want to discuss who makes the best tools in general, there isn't an argument that can be made against Hilti. I buy different brands of tools because each company has individual tools that are better than others, but in general Milwaukee is the way to go if I had to choose just one.
Almost every experienced mechanic I know who frequently uses vice grips hits up garage sales to see if they can find the older ones in good shape. Give or take I have about a 100 different types of vice grips or similar locking pliers and the older vice grips are what I use most frequently. Some older air tools are hard to beat as well but it’s becoming more difficult to rebuild them.
Here's how the major tool companies are affiliated. https://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliations/
I guess you have you opinion and I have mine brought on by a lot of training and breakdowns of tools along with experience.
I also sell Hilti and their quality has gone down hill in recent years but I see their reputation is still there.
Milwaukee top to bottom is NOT the best product and the reason why I have slowly been changing all my tools over from red to the Makita. Right now in fact I would rank Makita and even maybe Dewalt ahead of them since Dewalt has been coming on very strong the last couple years after they fell off.
I used to use Makita pretty exclusively so I'm happy to hear that. I do a wide variety of construction (electrical contractor by trade, but also frame houses, do plumbing, finish carpentry, etc) and still think that they make the best sanders, miter boxes, circular saws, etc. When it comes to cordless tools that I use for electrical work though, its almost entirely Milwaukee. Part of that is the M18 platform has so many tools, but part of it is just that their drills and impacts are light-years better than anyone else. Their sawzalls have kind of gone to crap lately but I pretty much switched over to bandsaws a while ago so it doesn't affect me much.
It's nearly impossible. I'm still pissed that Craftsman sold out to China. I've been trying to find old Craftsman tool sets on eBay or Craiglist so I can find American-made tools. Even stupid overpriced Snap-On is Chinese made now. I think maybe Mac Tools has some lines that are still made in the U.S. It's so frustrating.
There are still some denim jeans and boots made in the U.S., but they are small-batch, hand-made stuff. You'll pay an arm and leg for them. But I'd rather have one pair of American-made jeans that will last, than four pair that will fall apart in my hands.
Postal workers are required to buy union made u.s. goods to wear as uniforms. It's expensive but they last pretty well. And they are pretty much abused.
Craftsman is owned my Stanley-black and Decker that also owns Irwin and Dewalt.
they may be made there but that is who they are owned by and I believe this is a fairly recent acquisition so j would look for them to improve.
If irwin is any indicator, I wouldn't get my hopes up. I keep giving them a shot on blades and bits and keep being disappointed.
I went all in on DeWalt. It still irks me that they put all this Made in the USA patch on the bag and on their tools, but then in small print it talks of "using global sourced materials". What this means is that most of the device is made elsewhere and shipped here where American workers assemble a few pieces to mark it "Made in USA". Lame. But they are well made I just wish the batteries were not so damn expensive.
I also got some snap ring pliers. Made in USA. 100%. And it's also reversible.
I also got some snap ring pliers. Made in USA. 100%. And it's also reversible.
Everyone talks buy American, did you know the the livestock industry had country of origin labels at one time, but they can’t do it anymore so you don’t know what county your meat is from now. Huskerfan 66 probably can explain it better.I went all in on DeWalt. It still irks me that they put all this Made in the USA patch on the bag and on their tools, but then in small print it talks of "using global sourced materials". What this means is that most of the device is made elsewhere and shipped here where American workers assemble a few pieces to mark it "Made in USA". Lame. But they are well made I just wish the batteries were not so damn expensive.
I also got some snap ring pliers. Made in USA. 100%. And it's also reversible.
