Curious if anyone has experience with this with a young kid (K-2nd grade).
If so what’s the protocol.
If so what’s the protocol.
OT: oppositional defiance disorder
- Thread starter NebChicago
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And conversation. If true ODD, then their mind works like a Chinese finger trap. ‘Because I said so’ doesn’t work really well with them. You have to find a different way of communicating to get them to come along.
Or you can whack em. I told my 29 year olds teachers during conference back in grade school to just whack him if he misbehaved. That was the last time my wife wanted me to go to a parent-teacher conference. Man I wish she would have let them whack him. Sigh. Never spanked and was sooooo much fun when he turned 15. sigh.
Their minds don’t work like that honestly. If you have no experience with this kind of child then you have no clue
I swift kick it the ass cured all my issues
It’s a journey. But yes, I’d say a slow evolution through the years and I’m really proud of what he has accomplished and the person he has become.
I understand that. I was being a smart ass. I actually dealt with an Aspergers kid for several years who also had this syndrome.
I get the “old school spanking” humor. But the kid in mind obviously has some shit going on that is way beyond this type of parenting.
Everything you say he says the opposite, every thing he says seems to come from a mean spirited place, every laugh or outburst seems to be a desperate attempt at attention seeking. It’s like the only way he understands attention is to act negatively. Talking with him and the light just does not to be on
Everything you say he says the opposite, every thing he says seems to come from a mean spirited place, every laugh or outburst seems to be a desperate attempt at attention seeking. It’s like the only way he understands attention is to act negatively. Talking with him and the light just does not to be on
My daughter is very defiant. I give her enough freedom to make mistakes, like she doesn't like to wear shoes or jackets so I let her go out without them and get cold. Also I use rewards instead of punishments. For example at dinner she doesn't get desert unless she eats what shes supposed to and she doesn't get toys/allowance/etc unless she keeps her room clean.
Once she refused to eat mashed potatoes so I said that was ok, she was not going to eat until she ate it. She went 1.5 days without eating until she finally ate. It was just as hard on me but you have to remain firm, not go back on your word and pick your battles. If you change your mind and let her win it makes it worse.
Once she refused to eat mashed potatoes so I said that was ok, she was not going to eat until she ate it. She went 1.5 days without eating until she finally ate. It was just as hard on me but you have to remain firm, not go back on your word and pick your battles. If you change your mind and let her win it makes it worse.
One of my favorite sayings is "grandchildren are a grandparent's revenge". Man I might have not had any more kids if I had known the hell #2 was going to put us through. He's doing well now but man.
My son was diagnosed with ODD a few years ago and it seriously takes a lot a lot of Patients... I’ve seen some good information on this thread.
Consistency and patients will be key, rely heavily on a reward system figure out what makes your child tick and what he/ she loves the most... and honestly keep them busy and distracted with other things as much as you can
Consistency and patients will be key, rely heavily on a reward system figure out what makes your child tick and what he/ she loves the most... and honestly keep them busy and distracted with other things as much as you can
Does it usually come hand in hand with autism or being on the spectrum? This kid is diagnosed with ADHD
I would say not necessarily. I get hesitant to get too detailed because there are subsets and what worked for me might not work for you. My son didn’t have ADHD or autism for instance. Talk to different experts, do a lot of online research, share experiences with other parents in this boat. Some trial and error is probably required until you find what works best for your child. As a few others have said, positive reinforcement is effective, consistency is a must and do your best to not get drawn into an emotional conflict. Keeping things calm usually ends up with a better result.
eye contact. Focused attention on them without electronic and other distractions and as you said, immeasurable patience. We're way too distracted from the most important job we have as parents. Kudos to you for making it through. I kind of like the idea that people should have to pass a test before they have kids. I was so naive and had no clue how to deal with kids let alone a kid with ADD like my second one. Fortunately I married a very smart woman.
I have ADHD but I can't really speak to Oppositional Defiant Disorder. I would strongly recommend professional help from people with a specialization working with kids who have those particular difficulties.
With ADHD I have needed a ton of work on organizational skills, I have to build a framework that alerts me at the right time to do time-sensitive tasks. Our concept of how long something will take and when we need to start in order to have it done on time is basically just not there.
I tell people that time for me almost exists only as "right now" and "not now." If you tell me to do something like, "Hey it's gonna be hot later you should go out and get the lawn mowed before it's 90 degrees out there." That means nothing to me really, and what you meant was, "I want the lawn mowed now" but that isn't what you said. You phrased it like a "not now" and my brain struggles to flip that to a "right now" when it's time because I can get so easily distracted and lost in something else I never have that moment where I go, "Oh I should start mowing the lawn now but eh, eff him I'm not gonna." If you tell me, "At 10:15 this morning I want you to go mow the lawn" I can do that.
But again, I have no experience with ODD so you're going to have those elements to work with.
For kids try to avoid "surprising" them in a negative way where possible. Give them a countdown if it's time to turn off the TV or a video game so they can learn to process their feelings of having their hyperfocus broken. My kids haven't been diagnosed with ADHD but since they were little I'd try to let them know if it was say 15 minutes until time to stop doing something they were really enjoying. Then 10, 5, 2, time to go.
The tough thing is to find somebody who is in fact really good at counseling kids with those types of disorders. My spouse found a child psychiatrist to affiliated with a medical school way back when to help us with our middle son. That worked out well until a 15 year old girl friend convinced him that he didn't need meds for his ADD. Things really fell apart for about 3 years after that. He made to college and then figured out pretty quickly that he needed the meds.
Hey, maybe this is what my 13yo has! Sorry, I definitely don't want to make light of anyone's situation. More sympathy actually as what my wife and I have dealt with is likely minor in comparison. He's just always been "difficult". He's a June baby, which means that when he was 4-5 we were trying to decide whether to send him to kindergarten or wait another year. The kindly grandmother-type who had a daycare where he went said, "well, if he isn't going to kindergarten he isn't staying here." He's still as hard headed as anyone I've ever known, but I've learned to deal with him to move him in the direction I want him to go. Which is funny, because I have a bit of a temper and can be very impatient. My wife is as mild and patient as anyone I know.. and yet she and he are constantly pushing each other's buttons. I have to step in to referee! It's a trip and I love the person he is becoming....
Wow Thanks for sharing ya'll. We have a family member going through a divorce, and both spouses are kind of narcissists who don't seem to prioritize their only child, and seem clueless to the gravity of the situation. The kid is very difficult. Is incredibly socially inept, very mad, seems to gravitate towards mean-natured behavior, has cues and ticks that I associate with autism (shaking hands ritually, closing eyes, scream outbursts). But most notably always acts in defiance, disagreement, has no respect for elders, easily escalates minor parental things. We are worried what this may turn in to long term.
The only diagnosis all of us are aware of, or that has been shared is ADHD. Which I don't associate with any of the behaviors. We all are wondering how to bring this up/suggest it. Or if we should? As the family member seems clueless and depressed due to the divorce. One family member feels like ODD is right on diagnosis-wise. After researching it online, it seems like a right on diagnosis to me. But I'm not a pyschiatrist.
Have had some experience with this. Beyond getting professional help which is important, the few things I’ve learned:
1. Positive reinforcement for good behavior
2. Find ways to offer choices as much as possible to give child sense of control. The idea being framing things where no matter what they “choose” it’s an appropriate choice.
3. Don’t give the attention for negative behavior.
4. Consistency
5. Difficult at that age, but trying to teach empathy and understanding how others feel would be one more thing
1. Positive reinforcement for good behavior
2. Find ways to offer choices as much as possible to give child sense of control. The idea being framing things where no matter what they “choose” it’s an appropriate choice.
3. Don’t give the attention for negative behavior.
4. Consistency
5. Difficult at that age, but trying to teach empathy and understanding how others feel would be one more thing
Too be fully honest with you I’m not sure, I suspect my child has at least a mild form of autism, but they have never officially diagnosed him with it....
When I first took my son in I was actually going to get him some help for being very much on the ADHD spectrum, they went through all the forms and did their evals and ended up saying he was on both spectrums for ADHD and also has ODD... I had never heard of ODD up to that point. It really does take a lot of patients and you have to be harder headed then your child on the battles you do pick, the others you can’t let them know that it’s bothering you... if your child is anything like mine they will just look for what pushes your buttons and as soon as they figure it out it’s game over... i can not stress enough how important it is to maintain a strict routine, as well as the importance of keeping them busy with things, if you can keep them busy outside the house in sports or something to drain their energy it’s even better... give them more opportunities to receive positive reinforcement... it’s draining, challenging and difficult.... but you can do it just do what you’re doing and find resources and know that you’re not alone... that was one of my other struggles at first and thinking I was doing something bad and I felt like I was failing as a parent I beat myself up more then anything
No doubt the child has witnessed some of the behaviors he's exhibiting but he definitely needs some help. Sometimes I wonder if it's a chicken or the egg scenario with behaviors. I know from personal experience that dealing with a child with problems can lead to some serious marital stress. Likewise marital stress can lead to serious behavioral problems for kids. I'm certainly no psychologist but having been a scout leader for 30 years I've seen a lot. I acted as the local pharmacy when we were out of town on trips with the kids. I had to keep a lock box to hold their drugs. Obviously the parent who you are related to is probably the most likely one to approach about getting the kid help. Man I'm not a fan of psychologists because I've known some really goofy ones. I would go straight to a child psychiatrist with a good reputation if it were me.
This is excellent advice. You can carefully steer them, but everything has to be their idea. If they get a whiff that's what you're doing or that's what you want they're going to do the opposite.
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ODD, ADHD, or whatever you want to call it now is just some new age BS made up to let parents off the hook for the way their children behave.
The carrot and the stick work best when both are used, and it's universal.
The carrot and the stick work best when both are used, and it's universal.
^ lol. Surprised it took so long for "that guy" to show up.
Well it must be nice sitting up there on your pedestal...
Ill be the first to admit I used to have the same frame of mind, right up to the point of my child being diagnosed with ODD, in fact when they first diagnosed him my remarks to the doctor was oh so it’s a fancy term for kids who don’t wanna listen...
all I will say as a parent that has a child that has ODD and ADHD please refrain from your judgements and comments about the parents, the biggest issue I struggled with was learning how to cope with my feeling like I’m a failing as a parent, but the way a child with ODD functions is different from any other kid, and there are times where it does not matter what you do they will not correct their behavior, trust me, unless you are flat out abusing your child with ODD, they will defy that authority.... it’s people that have your same way of thinking that keeps the negative stigma on mental health and behavioral health issues and why we are and will perpetually be stuck in these archaic ways.
that was a stupid stupid, uneducated comment... so frustrating to read BS like that. As you saying that is basically diminishing the issues my child struggles with on a day to day basis, and it diminishes the struggles that we as parents go through as well by shouldering all the blame, and some times embarrassment, because we feel people like you judging our every move... it diminishes the stress these issues put on a marriage.... one simple idiotic Statement diminishes a lot of serious issues
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you guys get triggered so easily..
I'm sure some kids are harder than others to deal with, and most parents are doing the best that they can, (some are not) but trying to explain every little thing as some sort of 'disorder' is also not healthy. Who would want to label their kid as having a disorder, and what does that do to their psyche? I'm sure that is not the case here, but it is the first time I've heard of ODD, so I am going to roll my eyes a bit. I just wonder what they will come up with next.
I'm sure some kids are harder than others to deal with, and most parents are doing the best that they can, (some are not) but trying to explain every little thing as some sort of 'disorder' is also not healthy. Who would want to label their kid as having a disorder, and what does that do to their psyche? I'm sure that is not the case here, but it is the first time I've heard of ODD, so I am going to roll my eyes a bit. I just wonder what they will come up with next.
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If by easily triggered you mean by idiotic posts that diminishes the every day battle my kid, my family, and myself fight with a behavior disorder, then yes I do get triggered easily... I’d think most parents will triggered by such things
I in no way replied to you directly, it was to the thread. Do not take my posts personally, as they are not meant to be.
It's not only stupid, arrogant, ignorant and unhelpful, it's factually inaccurate. You can show the structural causes and correlations of ADHD on a brain scan, the prefrontal cortex is not the same as in a "normal" or "high functioning" person. Their interactions with the neurotransmitter dopamine are also not like a "normal" brain.
I have ADHD as well as a psychology degree from UNL which has a very good psych department, I know WTF I'm talking about regardless of what the usual collection of board trolls chooses to believe. I'm happy to discuss with OP away from this board if that's more helpful.
The difference between a normal mind and an ADHD mind can be likened to climbing a long staircase. The "normal" person goes up the stairs pretty easily and thinks they know all about what it means to have tired legs and be out of breath. The person with ADHD has to go up those same steps with an 80 lb backpack on. Yeah it's the same staircase and they have just as far to go, but their every step requires more effort.
Understand too that disorders can have up and down cycles. A person with Major Depressive Disorder isn't going to always be depressed. In that same way a person with ADHD will struggle more with it at some times than at others.
I have some days where I don't really struggle. Once in a while I have a day or two where I feel laser sharp and like I can accomplish anything. Then I have others where I've been sitting at my desk for 8 hours and haven't accomplished a damned thing even though I've tried to get started multiple times and it's like pushing a rope to have a three-step thought process. I'll have stretches of multiple weeks where I don't have a day that I really feel sharp, and there's nothing I've been able to identify that causes or prevents it.
Emotional regulation difficulties are an element of ADHD so that can be tied into behaviors that would fall under ODD as well. If this kid is going through a bad time and hasn't been parented very well that could account largely for the behavior problems, or it could be making an existing disorder such as ODD worse.
If the child is not diagnosed with ODD then they need to be diagnosed by a licensed professional specializing in kids with psychological issues.
Put him on ignore, you won't be missing a thing. There are a lot of walking Dunning Kruger cases on this board, all you can do is stop giving them attention.
I will say this, if you do not mean for things to be taken personally then I’d try to avoid taking generalized shots at a behavioral disorder in a thread where multiple people are talking about their kids or family members who have that very disorder... as I said before that very outlook on behavioral and mental disorders is where there is that dark negative stigma hovering and why people refuse to get help and just end up commuting suicide... our society as a whole needs to be more understand that mental and behavior disorders are a really thing and people do need help with them, not more criticizing and negativity.... that’s just my two cents
I understand. My point was that sometimes, these things are taken too far too.
Someone is going to come up with an inability to be truthful disorder, or I'm sorry your honor, I have that inability to pay taxes disorder.. and while I'm making a light joke about those, surely you can see where people could take things too far.
Furthermore, I don't think it's healthy to label 'disorders' onto kids either. It hasn't seemed to hurt TheBeav815 above, but even he says, "If this kid is going through a bad time and hasn't been parented very well that could account largely for the behavior problems, or it could be making an existing disorder such as ODD worse."
Which is kind of what I said in my post.
So while this may not be your situation, there are plenty of others where a child is being labeled with a disorder needlessly when maybe the fault is the parent(s) themselves.
I dated an LCSW, and said the this is the catch-all classification for kids with behavior problems where they can’t find any underlying medical reason. She said it was nicer than just saying, “hey, your kid’s a real prick”.
I’m not sure that was helpful.
I’m not sure that was helpful.
It’s like watching someone try to set a record for the most consecutive uncool posts in a row. Congrats Cal Ripken
