OT- DC commercial plane and Blackhawk collide

[V-Doub]

How could be the pilot or controller error. The plane is literally on final approach to the runway. The plane was where it was supposed ti be the helicopter wasn’t.

Sure looks that way to the untrained eye. I’ll wait for whatever explanation results from the investigation. But it’s hard to imagine a scenario where the black hawk wasn’t the aircraft in the wrong place.

 

[V-Doub]

Have some relatives in the DC area that are often flying for work and such. Checked in on them as it's been awhile since we talked... relieved to hear they are all okay. RIP to all the victims.

My younger sister lives just south of DC in Maryland and uses Reagan international often. They’re closer to DC than Baltimore so it makes sense. Everyone is ok, but it scares you when you 1st hear the news…

 

[schuele]

without a doubt a horrible event, just saying that there are individual events that transpired in a short period of time that could have led to the tragedy. It isn't just as simple as ATC or Blackhawk pilot or commercial pilot error.

Again another story, back in the day when I was active duty I flew on the AWACS planes out of Tinker AFB in Oklahoma, we were conducting a routine sortie out of an island in the Caribbean at night. Our entire mission was to control the air space and monitor air traffic. Typically we did not report to other control towers because we were supposed to be able to monitor air traffic in and around our general area. One night, were were flying and the navigator was informed of a commercial plane that was at the same altitude but a heading that would have been at our 7 -8 o'clock. The commercial plane would have had no indication that we were out there because we didn't report to anyone because we were conducting a mission. Needless to say, there was nearly a mid air collision. We adjusted out altitude to narrowly escape but it was close enough that you could feel the plane shake. Scariest event in my military career. But the error was because an operator in the back of the plane wasn't doing their job. The commercial plane and the ATC center immediately went to the press to blame the government. The plane is very unique looking so it was easy to distinguish, and the pilot was publicly blamed. But none of it was his error. Anyway, long story to show not everything is as it appears in the first 6 hours of an unfortunate event.

Refreshing to have a balanced perspective from someone who actually knows WTF he's talking about. Thank you.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Wow that was a close one for you . Glad it worked out. I was just responding to An OP who has made it pretty clear in a couple of posts that he is blaming everyone except the Chopper pilot . I probably should have used better words in my post .

I used your post because it was most relevant to what I was going to respond to. I wasn't too clear either and probably should have just written a post without replying to anyone specifically.

 

[Big bo fan]

I used your post because it was most relevant to what I was going to respond to. I wasn't too clear either and probably should have just written a post without replying to anyone specifically.

No worries it’s a tragic accident and no matter the outcome of the investigation it won’t bring back 67 people.

 

[Huskers123456]

Sure looks that way to the untrained eye. I’ll wait for whatever explanation results from the investigation. But it’s hard to imagine a scenario where the black hawk wasn’t the aircraft in the wrong place.

Why wait for an investigation when you can just make stuff up right away? Works for this dingle guy. Actually seems to be how he lives his entire life.

 

[V-Doub]

Why wait for an investigation when you can just make stuff up right away? Works for this dingle guy. Actually seems to be how he lives his entire life.

Yeah, it’s easy to formulate a surface opinion on an issue/matter, just don’t get married to that opinion until we have all the facts and information.

 

[Dean Pope]

The plane also switched runways, the ATC asked the plane if they could land on the shorter runway. Not everything is black and white.

Well, that may explain something right there. The plan changed and somebody was not informed or missed the message. That's horrific and inexcusable but if true it does at least explain how in the hell a blackhawk would be flying in front of a landing air strip.

Needless to say. Safety changes will be made. Unfortunately it takes a great tragedy to bring forth regulations and smarter guidelines.

 

[cruelhalo]

The plane also switched runways, the ATC asked the plane if they could land on the shorter runway. Not everything is black and white.

Any comment on the rumors of the Blackhawk pilot being a bit cavalier ducking commercial aircraft?

 

[Spectrumalaska]

Why wait for an investigation when you can just make stuff up right away? Works for this dingle guy. Actually seems to be how he lives his entire life.

Dingle is always on the fritz.
There is almost nothing he says that can or should be believed.

 

[61bigredfan]

It’s a tragedy. Surely no one would make political hay out of this.

 

[dinglefritz]

Wow that was a close one for you . Glad it worked out. I was just responding to An OP who has made it pretty clear in a couple of posts that he is blaming everyone except the Chopper pilot . I probably should have used better words in my post .

I’m just saying we need to wait and see.

 

[dinglefritz]

Why wait for an investigation when you can just make stuff up right away? Works for this dingle guy. Actually seems to be how he lives his entire life.

Exactly what did I make up?

 

[Huskers123456]

It’s a tragedy. Surely no one would make political hay out of this.

Yeah. That would be crazy. I'm sure not even the highest officials in the land would be that stupid.....

 

[Huskers123456]

Exactly what did I make up?

Not getting banned, so you can continue your aw shucks routine acting like you don't know.

 

[dinglefritz]

Ok , but doesn’t change the fact that the airliner would still have priority in this situation. It’s a terrible accident.

It’s okay to discuss this. I’m in DC until tomorrow. I literally landed on that or the runway next to it Tuesday. My brother-in-law is a retired air traffic control supervisor from the Los Angeles area. Mistakes happen especially at congested airports. There are WAY more near misses than are reported. Sad sad deal.

 

[schuele]

I’m just saying we need to wait and see.

Really? You have an odd way of voicing a "wait and see" approach.

I’ll believe it was the chopper pilot’s fault when they prove it. I’m going to believe it was the controller’s or plane’s pilot error that caused this. A controller’s job is extremely difficult and stressful. A momentary mistake can cause something like this.

People are blaming the chopper but my guess is a 6 year chopper pilot is a better pilot than a guy flying basically an ancient commuter plane for an AA subcontractor.

 

[dinglefritz]

Not getting banned, so you can continue your aw shucks routine acting like you don't know.

Nothing but the facts.

 

[dinglefritz]

Really? You have an odd way of voicing a "wait and see" approach.

I said I would believe it’s the chopper pilot’s fault when they prove it. I haven’t seen that proven yet. The audio sounds like confusing controller instructions to me. My point was immediately everyone had convicted the chopper pilot. He was given instructions which maybe didn’t make it clear which plane he should “go behind”. It’s been non-stop coverage of this from local TV affiliates today.

 

[Huskers123456]

Nothing but the facts.

Speculating and telling stories doesn't equal facts.

 

[dinglefritz]

Speculating and telling stories doesn't equal facts.

The fact is that hiring practices can have an affect on the quality of hires.

 

[Huskers123456]

Really? You have an odd way of voicing a "wait and see" approach.

And that doesn't even include the deleted posts.

 

[Huskers123456]

I’m just saying we need to wait and see.

Wait and see, when you jumped on here blaming air traffic controllers and the plane pilot. So classic. You are perfect for DC.

 

[nostromo78]

The fact is that hiring practices can have an affect on the quality of hires.

So you really believe diversity efforts had anything to do with this plane crash? Like seriously? Because it sounds like you do. That is absolutley crazy.

 

[Bruce1981]

Commercial jets take priority in this airspace always. Especially at 400 feet

 

[HBK4life]

 

[61bigredfan]

Yeah. That would be crazy. I'm sure not even the highest officials in the land would be that stupid.....

What did I miss?

 

[schuele]

I said I would believe it’s the chopper pilot’s fault when they prove it. I haven’t seen that proven yet. The audio sounds like confusing controller instructions to me. My point was immediately everyone had convicted the chopper pilot. He was given instructions which maybe didn’t make it clear which plane he should “go behind”. It’s been non-stop coverage of this from local TV affiliates today.

I don't think anyone should blame the helicopter pilot without knowing the facts. But how is that any more irresponsible than disparaging "a guy flying basically an ancient commuter plane for an AA subcontractor" - without any facts whatsoever to suggest that the airline pilot was in error?

Or are people only allowed to wildly speculate about the cause of the crash if they happen to have a relative who's an air traffic controller?

 

[Bruce1981]

There are a tremendous number of political figures who fly in and out of Reagan. One guy on that river bank or on a boat could bring down a plane with some very important people on it. They call it a “training” mission but no doubt they’re providing security and “training” for security threats to the Whitehouse and Capitol.

One question is if the chopper was too high or the plane came in too low. It was very windy last night in DC and wind shear might have affected the plane’s path. Watching the video last night I thought the plane was awfully low. People are blaming the chopper but my guess is a 6 year chopper pilot is a better pilot than a guy flying basically an ancient commuter plane for an AA subcontractor.

Yea.....no. the plane was descending to land which means it got the green light to land from ATC. It was at 400 feet. In no way can any blame be assigned to the pilot of the commercial jet, who ironically is the son of a retired Blackhawk pilot who trained along the same MTR. Military has no rights to do whatever they want in that airspace. It is entirely up to the airport what section they claim and don't claim. Funny you would blame the pilot that has little to no evasive maneuvers to take in that situation.

 

[Dean Pope]

It’s a tragedy. Surely no one would make political hay out of this.

That would be the honorable thing to do so I expect that the politicians will do the opposite.

 

[Dean Pope]

Yea.....no. the plane was descending to land which means it got the green light to land from ATC. It was at 400 feet. In no way can any blame be assigned to the pilot of the commercial jet, who ironically is the son of a retired Blackhawk pilot who trained along the same MTR. Military has no rights to do whatever they want in that airspace. It is entirely up to the airport what section they claim and don't claim. Funny you would blame the pilot that has little to no evasive maneuvers to take in that situation.

Some people have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Husker.Wed.]

without a doubt a horrible event, just saying that there are individual events that transpired in a short period of time that could have led to the tragedy. It isn't just as simple as ATC or Blackhawk pilot or commercial pilot error.

Again another story, back in the day when I was active duty I flew on the AWACS planes out of Tinker AFB in Oklahoma, we were conducting a routine sortie out of an island in the Caribbean at night. Our entire mission was to control the air space and monitor air traffic. Typically we did not report to other control towers because we were supposed to be able to monitor air traffic in and around our general area. One night, were were flying and the navigator was informed of a commercial plane that was at the same altitude but a heading that would have been at our 7 -8 o'clock. The commercial plane would have had no indication that we were out there because we didn't report to anyone because we were conducting a mission. Needless to say, there was nearly a mid air collision. We adjusted out altitude to narrowly escape but it was close enough that you could feel the plane shake. Scariest event in my military career. But the error was because an operator in the back of the plane wasn't doing their job. The commercial plane and the ATC center immediately went to the press to blame the government. The plane is very unique looking so it was easy to distinguish, and the pilot was publicly blamed. But none of it was his error. Anyway, long story to show not everything is as it appears in the first 6 hours of an unfortunate event.

Maybe if the Air Force changed out the 10-second rotation rate AN/APY-2 with a phased array radar like the Navy uses the guys in the back of the plane would have better situational awareness.

 

[Bruce1981]

 

[Husker.Wed.]

Flew many times from SoCal to the DC area to work at Dahlgren or Quantico. I always flew into Richmond when possible. I had to drive a little farther when I got there, but Reagan creeps me out. Not only because of all the air traffic, but also if the pilot can't get airborne instead of sliding into a field the plane goes into the river.

 

[huskerfan66]

Flew many times from SoCal to the DC area to work at Dahlgren or Quantico. I always flew into Richmond when possible. I had to drive a little farther when I got there, but Reagan creeps me out. Not only because of all the air traffic, but also if the pilot can't get airborne instead of sliding into a field the plane goes into the river.

I here you but that drive isn't fun either unless you use the middle

 

[HuskerInCarolina]

I here you but that drive isn't fun either unless you use the middle

For real. There is no section of Virginia 95 that is good.

 

[schuele]

Flew many times from SoCal to the DC area to work at Dahlgren or Quantico. I always flew into Richmond when possible. I had to drive a little farther when I got there, but Reagan creeps me out. Not only because of all the air traffic, but also if the pilot can't get airborne instead of sliding into a field the plane goes into the river.

I don't disagree, but every city on the planet wants a direct flight into Reagan because flying into Dulles or BWI is a pain in the butt. That's one of the reasons Reagan is so congested.

I was actually surprised Wichita had a direct into Reagan.

 

[Bruce1981]

Helicopters have a 200 foot ceiling in this airspace. Pilot was at 350. They were ascending while commercial jet was descending to land.

 

[huskerfan66]

Drip Drip Drip the information keeps slowing revealing itself

 

[RedMyMind]

Sounds like it could be DEI related