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NU - KU basketball
- Thread starter Charlie Marlow
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anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi
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sick? The people bitching in this thread need a reality check. KU gets the cream of the crop every year and then spits out the ones that don't produce in practice. They're deep, tall and athletic. Tough to shoot over and tough to guard. Jordy is a start but Ed is a WAY undersized guy playing in the paint that doesn't have a jump shot. That's tough against guys 4 inches taller than you. We've got the best talent we've had in years, but other than Glynn it's mostly freshmen. I am very excited to watch these kids develop because IMO they are going to be really good as Juniors and Seniors.
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anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi
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The little bit I've seen Horne play he's jacked up some bad shots but other than that I have no idea.
The article on the front page of this site offered this about McVeigh's playing time, which seems logical:
3. A message has been sent to McVeigh
It's no secret that sophomore forward Jack McVeigh has struggled to open the season, and it finally caught up to him on Saturday. McVeigh got the start but played just seven minutes in the first half without taking a single shot. He then was benched to start the second half and did not see the floor the rest of the game. Gill, Taylor, Tshimanga, and freshman Isaiah Roby all saw increased minutes in McVeigh's absence, and there's a chance that could continue over the next couple of games.
Not that it would have changed today's outcome by any means, but why did Morrow only play 24 minutes? He was 7-10 from the field, made both his FTs, and had 7 boards and 2 assists. Granted, 24 minutes is substantial playing time. But given that he's the best inside presence NU has had in a long time, why sit him for 40% of the game?
3. A message has been sent to McVeigh
It's no secret that sophomore forward Jack McVeigh has struggled to open the season, and it finally caught up to him on Saturday. McVeigh got the start but played just seven minutes in the first half without taking a single shot. He then was benched to start the second half and did not see the floor the rest of the game. Gill, Taylor, Tshimanga, and freshman Isaiah Roby all saw increased minutes in McVeigh's absence, and there's a chance that could continue over the next couple of games.
Not that it would have changed today's outcome by any means, but why did Morrow only play 24 minutes? He was 7-10 from the field, made both his FTs, and had 7 boards and 2 assists. Granted, 24 minutes is substantial playing time. But given that he's the best inside presence NU has had in a long time, why sit him for 40% of the game?
Cream of the crop? Not always. They have one of the best back courts in the country with Mason and Graham, who both were not heavily recruited. They were committed to Towson St and Appalachian St before KU started recruiting them and got them to switch. Pretty sure any Power 5 Conference team could have convinced them to switch their commitments from those 2 schools. Bill Self is good at identifying talent for his system and developing it, along with bringing in some highly rated 4-5 Stars.
Not every successful team is full of 4-5 recruits. Heck Creighton is Top 10 and I am not sure if they even have a Top 100 recruit outside of the Freshman Patton yet they have a good coach who recruits and develops players who fit his system. We have numerous Top 100 recruits but none of the pieces of the puzzle seem to fit together. I still can't figure out what Tim Miles System is. Seems to recruit a bunch of tweeners who aren't good outside shooters. This team has no offensive identity.
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anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi
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In Jacks defense, he has taken over Benny Parkers position in the offensive attack this year.
He is the guy that goes and stands in the opposite corner while we have 2 guards take turns trying to play hero ball on the opposite side of the court.
I may well be crazy...but do you really think the guys on this team can compete in the Big 10? I guess time will tell and we'll see where we stand come the end of the season.
The offensive identity thing just burns my ass. We have an offensive identity and unfortunately it's that our guys can't hit shots and the only inside game we really have is Jordy. Ed is just too damned short. He's great around the basket but he gave up 4 inches to just about everybody in KU's bigs....and everybody in KU's lineup can shoot. IF your other guys can't be a threat from 3 though you're just going to struggle. Period. Opposing D's can double Tai and Glynn with virtually no fear that the other guys are going to hurt them.
i thought they played fairly well offensively. if Jacobson could make a bunny, they may have at least made it respectable. everyone at least was aggressive with the ball and attacked the basket. losing white really hurt. pair him with watson and tai and you had something. jordy and ed battled like crazy. id like to see jordy tie his left arm behind his back for a week though...no right hand whatsoever. he doesnt play afraid though.
And yet we're so damn talented!
Help me out here: you regularly lecture everyone here about how they just don't appreciate the talent Miles is bringing into the program. Yet when people say that Morrow is an effective inside threat and he should be utilized more, you scream about how this absolutely isn't true and Morrow is way too small to score inside.
So if Morrow is too small to score inside, why does he do it with such regularity whenever he's given the chance? It would be nice if Morrow was 6'10, but he isn't. So NU can either just concede the paint to every single opponent they play, and keep having "guys who can't hit shots" jack up a whole bunch of shots, or they can try to get the most out their very talented 6'7" power forward who plays his ass off every night.
And if you seriously think that Tshimanga - at least for this season - is more of an inside scoring threat than Morrow, I really don't know what team you've been watching. In a year or two he very well might be, and I hope that's the case. But right now it isn't even close.
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I agree - I thought the offensive execution in this game was better than it usually is. Huskers were just way overmatched on the other end of the floor. Some of the defensive matchups were puzzling, but otherwise this game went about the way anyone would have expected.
Agree with you. If some of the others on the team had half the heart and aggressiveness in the paint we'd be a lot better. Morrow is always going to give up height, but he sure helps himself with his hustle. I was pleased with Jordy's play against KU and saw some of it against Creighton. Could be interesting to see how Jordy and Morrow feed off each other later in the season if Miles doesn't screw it up.
Webster and Morrow have been solid thus far, Watson has been decent but inconsistent, Jacobson and McVeigh are train wrecks, Jordy is coming along, up until today Gill has been a disappointment so hopefully today is a turning point. We lack offensive identity and then they just defer to jacking up 3's while Miles lets it happen.
I haven't "screamed" anything. JMO. Tshimanga long term is IMO going to be more of a threat than Ed against lineups with the kind of size KU has. You wait and see what he does. He just keeps looking more and more comfortable. These kids are talented but for whatever reason, RIGHT NOW they can't hit shots. Every one of those guys with the exception of the transfer Taylor were scorers in high school and AAU ball. I have NO idea why they can't make them now other than that I think they're pressing and just don't release the ball with the idea that it's going in. Shooting is EXTREMELY mental. Morrow can score inside against smaller line ups, but he struggles against bigger defenders. Duh. He's a 6-7 guy that can't shoot a jumper AND is playing the 5 instead of the 4. Have you ever played the game? Love Morrow's motor. Love the want to. Love his moves under the bucket but man he's really at a disadvantage in the paint against bigger guys.
All an identity is is your style of play. Means nothing. You have to score more points than your opponent and if you don't then people who've never played the game say you don't have an identity. IF we suddenly drop 4 or 5 more 3's in a game and start winning some of these then do we have an identity or a different one? Hell no. Means nothing. It's just gobbledygoop. Make the shots. Win the game. AND BTW when you're down by 19 half way through the 2nd half I hope to hell you're jacking up threes cuz that's your only shot.
What bigger defenders has Morrow struggled against this year? And "struggled" compared to what? Compared to throwing up threes at a 25% clip?
And to answer the question so often spewed by someone whose arguments aren't getting them anywhere - I only played high school ball, and I've never claimed to have played at a higher level than that. But I do notice that almost every commentator that's worked an NU game this year - guys who I am guessing played at much higher levels than you did - keep talking about how effective Morrow is inside, and they're consistently puzzled as to why he doesn't get the ball more. Do they lack your intricate understanding of the game too?
And to answer the question so often spewed by someone whose arguments aren't getting them anywhere - I only played high school ball, and I've never claimed to have played at a higher level than that. But I do notice that almost every commentator that's worked an NU game this year - guys who I am guessing played at much higher levels than you did - keep talking about how effective Morrow is inside, and they're consistently puzzled as to why he doesn't get the ball more. Do they lack your intricate understanding of the game too?
Whose fault is that? Who decides the players we are going to try to recruit? Who recruits them?
Our neighbors in Omaha don't seem to have any problems finding players who can shoot and players that can score in the paint. Maybe they just have a better coach, who gets paid almost $1,000,000 less than our coach does. Time for a new coach, this experiment isn't working for the Huskers.
Part of the deal with getting Ed the ball is that he has trouble getting and holding position against bigger guys. You don't force the ball in to a 6-7 (and I'm not sure he's really 6-7) guy with a 6-10 250lber draped all over him IMO. That isn't Ed's game. FOR HIS SIZE Ed IS effective but he's best if he can catch the ball or rebound it really deep so he can use the rim. Another factor is that defenses don't have to respect most of our perimeter players and help on Ed quickly with little fear of our jump shooters. IF we start making 3s it is going to open things up considerably for Ed. But again, the key is WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE 3s IF we are going to play with a 6-7 guy in the 5. HAVE TO. You want to neutralize a size disadvantage? Make 3s and/or have a smaller post player that can step out and knock down jump shots. Right now we can't do either. This is my point in asking the question "have you ever played the game?".
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You can just as easily argue that if you want to make more of those elusive threes, you need some kind of inside presence in your offense. Morrow isn't the ideal inside presence, but he's the best we have and easily the biggest bright spot so far this season. And it's not like getting Morrow more touches is going to prevent this inevitable avalanche of three pointers that are sure to start falling at any moment. If anything, getting Morrow the ball more will open up the perimeter.
So what is our style of play? I'm not clear from your argument if you think we do or do not have an identity or style of play.
Should I assume you have played the game? Jacking up threes halfway through 2nd half seems like a bad way to win the game. Considering when not being able to hit those shots all season is what puts them in that situation in the first place. So if that's not working do you try a different way to score?
And just to be clear, I am not writing off Tshimanga. I'm glad he's on the team and he certainly has potential, but right now he's not a legitimate offensive threat. That's okay, because if a guy that massive was a legitimate offensive threat right out of the gate, he would likely be at Kansas or UCLA or some other blue blood program. So recruit him, develop him, and hope for a big payoff in the future. But right now if NU is going to force its opponents to respect their inside game in any way, shape or form, it's going to happen on the back of Morrow.
Of course I'll be happy to shift gears and just say that these guys suck and we'll never compete in the Big Ten with them on the team, but I don't see much point in that. Just as I don't see much point in repeatedly saying that if we just start making more shots, we'll win more games.
Of course I'll be happy to shift gears and just say that these guys suck and we'll never compete in the Big Ten with them on the team, but I don't see much point in that. Just as I don't see much point in repeatedly saying that if we just start making more shots, we'll win more games.
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Dingle, I really don't get what you have against Morrow. You make it sound like he completely inept in the post which is completely untrue. He has scored against guys who are consistently bigger than him all year. He is the best true post threat we have had for a long, long time. Maybe since Maric. He is only a sophomore and is putting up 10 and 8 per game. Is his size going to hold back his upside? Maybe. Jordy probably has more upside than he does, but nobody on the court is going to out work him. If he develops a consistent jumper from 10-15 feet he will become more dangerous.
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I didn't see the game as I was up on the hill, skiing. I watched the Creighton game and the Huskers shooting was terrible. Living in Eastern Washington I get all the Gonzaga games on TV. They can shoot. It would be nice if the Huskers could put a competitive team on the floor. I think Miles has had his chance and it is time for a change. I have to thank the women. They made my life easier. Right after they finished off the Dawgs I rang our 100 pound bell loud and clear through the cold afternoon air. My Husky neighbors will all say that it was only volleyball, but if the outcome had been reversed they would have been unbearable.
But Kaz, if you're suggesting that Morrow should get more opportunities on the offensive end, it implies that Miles might (gasp!) need to do something differently. Why on Earth would you want build on the one aspect of your team that's much-improved and showing promise so far this season, when you can just roll into Big Ten play hoping and praying that your sub-35% shooters start making a bunch of shots?
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Yeah, why should we give more opportunities to a guy who's only shooting 58% from the floor? I mean, Jordy is the only player we have in the lineup that can be effective against a lineup like KU's. No way Ed could even compete.
We really need to stop believing what we see with our own eyes. Same goes for all those silly analysts who cover NU's games and get paid to comment on them. Somebody investigate their resumes, because they probably never really played.
Very true. I always thought Perry Eliis was 6'8" and about 220. But I was clearly mistaken.- he must have been a 7-footer. Same with Draymond Green. If he wasn't at least 6'11", there's no way he was Big Ten POY.
Barring a complete meltdown in Big Ten play, Miles will get one more year after this. There will be no excuses next year, though, as we will have an experienced roster full of his recruits.
If Miles doesn't work out, we should look at Dane Fife. Lots of Big Ten coaching experience, has been learning under Izzo, but also was a head coach at IPFW and did a good job building that program.
So Ed now is just like Draymond Green and Perry Ellis. Good Lord, I give up. Amazing stupidity. Look I love Ed Morrow and am glad we have him and what he CAN do but his size is a huge limitation on both ends of the floor. He's NOT Charles Barkley where he can just physically move people. He can't step out and shoot a jumper AND he's not good at putting the ball on the floor from the outside in. Love the kid but he has limitations and just throwing the ball in to him more often isn't going to change things. We HAVE to be able to shoot from outside. Period.
No, he's certainly not Perry Ellis or Draymond Green. But he's still NU's best player and most consistent scoring threat.
But far be it for any of us to make the blasphemous suggestion that Tim Miles should do anything different with this team. Just keep everything exactly the same, and hope that "guys who can't make shots" start making shots. Crackerjack analysis, that.
The good news is that there probably will eventually be a game when some shots go in, and the Huskers beat someone. And even if that game ends a lengthy losing streak, you can squeal that you were right all along and that nobody else knows what they are talking about.
But far be it for any of us to make the blasphemous suggestion that Tim Miles should do anything different with this team. Just keep everything exactly the same, and hope that "guys who can't make shots" start making shots. Crackerjack analysis, that.
The good news is that there probably will eventually be a game when some shots go in, and the Huskers beat someone. And even if that game ends a lengthy losing streak, you can squeal that you were right all along and that nobody else knows what they are talking about.
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That remains to be seen. Who knows who will explore the transfer market at years end.
First, Ed is NOT our best player. Glynn Watson is. I might give you that he's our third best player. Second, Tim Miles has forgotten more basketball in the last 10 minutes than you and I have known our entire life. Third. Opposing defenses aren't losing sleep over how to try to stop Ed other than boxing him out. I guarantee you that they are scheming around Glynn. He can shoot long range 3s, score off the bounce and dish at times when they double. He can create offense. Cmon man. You really think getting the ball in to ED in the paint against a couple of 6-10 athletic 250lb guys like KU had was going to change the outcome of that game??????? Would have likely amounted to more blocked shots for KU and more run outs off of them. You make it sound like I'm somehow attacking Ed and that's far from the truth. My point is that you can't rely on him to try to carry the offensive load when he's giving up the size he is to athletic bigs like KU has. If he's open, fine. Throw him the ball but trying to devise your offense to force the ball in to an undersized guy against KU was not gonna change anything. We lost to a top 10 program on their home floor where virtually nobody beats them. Big deal. Move on. Nothing we were going to do scheme wise was going to change the size and shooting disparity in that game.
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I'm not sure how anyone can say Ed Morrow is our "best player and most consistent scoring threat". Tai Webster fits that, followed by Watson, then Morrow. Without a doubt Ed is our best post threat and is fearless down low but let's not get unrealistic trying to prove a point.
IMO, Glynn is our best player but Tai is right there. Depends on the night and what you're looking at.
Of course getting the ball to Morrow more often wasn't going to change the outcome of the KU game, or the UCLA game. I haven't seen anyone here argue that, or argue that those games were winnable no matter the offensive strategy. I'm way more concerned about the games in which Nebraska matches up fairly well talent-wise, especially in conference play. Those are the games that are going to determine whether Miles has a future at NU, and I think he wins more of those games with some kind of post presence, as opposed to relying solely on perimeter shots.
I actually think NU has a chance to put up a pretty decent conference record this year, but not if they have those long stretches like last year where they avoid the paint like quicksand.
I actually think NU has a chance to put up a pretty decent conference record this year, but not if they have those long stretches like last year where they avoid the paint like quicksand.
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