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Nebraska_Reality

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Oct 23, 2019
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I knew antibody tests were not always accurate. That's nothing new.

Antibody tests are used to find out if you have had the virus. The test to find out if you currently have the disease isn't the same thing.
 

John_J_Rambo

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Jan 10, 2020
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Well.....other countries seemed to largely have a handle on this virus. Others seem to have never really had a problem.

Taiwan: Population of 24 million. 449 cases. 7 deaths (1.5% fatality rate; 0.00002% of their population dead).
Instituted mandatory 14-day quarantine for people, including their own citizens, coming into the country. Mandatory masks in public--no exceptions. Fines and social media scorn for those that are caught or photographed not wearing masks in public. NATIONAL response based on policy created in 2003 following the Bird Flu outbreak. Response led by infectious disease experts and epidemiologists, not politicians.

United States: Population of 329.8 million. 4.9 million cases. 162,000 deaths (3.24% fatality rate; 0.048% of our population dead).
Travel ban from China...except for thousands of exceptions. Travel ban from most of Europe...well after 3 million arrivals from Europe had passed through US airports since the outbreak began. No quarantine on people entering the US from overseas. No national response; instead a patchwork of policies crafted by politicians with political implications being the first and foremost consideration...some flat out content to ignore guidance from science. Citizenry full of nut job conspiracy theorists that think they are so important that the government plans to track them with chips in a vaccine or 5G antennas stored in masks (while they still use cell phones, credit cards, and social media). Supporters of maskless protesters blaming largely masked protesters for the spread, and visa versa. Resistance to masks and other measures solely based on the philosophy of "cuz of muh freedum", or the less redneck sounding "it's all about me."

I don't know...seems to me that there's plenty we could have done, and still could now, do differently.
more meaningless stats from a guy who clearly struggles to grasp the term 'apples-to-apples'.

the obesity rate (obesity is the #1 comorbidity with COVID deaths, which is why it's relevant here) in taiwan is 11%. in the US it's 40%.

death count and obesity rate in a country are directly linked. death count and government response are not. this post, like many of your others, makes people dumber.
 

Nebraska_Reality

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Oct 23, 2019
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more meaningless stats from a guy who clearly struggles to grasp the term 'apples-to-apples'.

the obesity rate (obesity is the #1 comorbidity with COVID deaths, which is why it's relevant here) in taiwan is 11%. in the US it's 40%.

death count and obesity rate in a country are directly linked. death count and government response are not. this post, like many of your others, makes people dumber.
True about obesity rates. But look at the % of each country that is infected (0.18% for Taiwan, against 1.48% of the United States...that we know of). That has nothing to do with obesity....or this stat also not an apples to apples comparison?

Let me guess...it's not apples to apples due to cultural differences? The weather? Your two-bit opinion coupled with your desire to watch football?

And if it isn't apples to apples, instead of acting like a jackass and throwing insults, perhaps you can enlighten us as to why the percentage of Taiwan's population that is infected is so much lower than ours. Some proof...you know...the kinds of stuff you always demand from others...would be helpful as well.

Or, you can just move along. Lots of people on here are fed up with your crap as well. Nothing like a guy that runs his mouth, so to speak, from the anonymity of a keyboard.
 

John_J_Rambo

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Jan 10, 2020
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True about obesity rates. But look at the % of each country that is infected (0.18% for Taiwan, against 1.48% of the United States...that we know of). That has nothing to do with obesity....or this stat also not an apples to apples comparison?

Let me guess...it's not apples to apples due to cultural differences? The weather? Your two-bit opinion coupled with your desire to watch football?

And if it isn't apples to apples, instead of acting like a jackass and throwing insults, perhaps you can enlighten us as to why the percentage of Taiwan's population that is infected is so much lower than ours. Some proof...you know...the kinds of stuff you always demand from others...would be helpful as well.

Or, you can just move along. Lots of people on here are fed up with your crap as well. Nothing like a guy that runs his mouth, so to speak, from the anonymity of a keyboard.
no, it's very obviously not. like, hilariously not even close. for statistical reasons.

Taiwan isn't testing nearly the people we are. infection rates in this context, once again, tell us nothing.

you're very much welcome to preface any numbers 'argument' you'd like to make from now on with 'literally nothing else equal' and then go about your business. accuracy tends to be important when trying to be credible.

I very much hope you're not a stats teacher. good lord.
 

Nebraska_Reality

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Oct 23, 2019
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no, it's very obviously not. like, hilariously not even close. for statistical reasons.

Taiwan isn't testing nearly the people we are. infection rates in this context, once again, tell us nothing.

you're very much welcome to preface any numbers 'argument' you'd like to make from now on with 'literally nothing else equal' and then go about your business. accuracy tends to be important when trying to be credible.

I very much hope you're not a stats teacher. good lord.
Does the percentage of tests that come back positive tell us anything?

And no, I do not teach math or stats.
 

John_J_Rambo

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Jan 10, 2020
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Does the percentage of tests that come back positive tell us anything?

And no, I do not teach math or stats.
since they, like the rest of Asia, only test the symptomatic subset of the population, no, it does not.

clearly, you don't. let's go ahead and keep what we don't understand out of discussion on such serious topics. I think you and I both agree we don't need anymore mud in the water.
 

Nebraska_Reality

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Oct 23, 2019
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since they, like the rest of Asia, only test the symptomatic subset of the population, no, it does not.

clearly, you don't. let's go ahead and keep what we don't understand out of discussion on such serious topics. I think you and I both agree we don't need anymore mud in the water.
Help me out here...and I mean this sincerely.....

If a country was only testing people with symptoms, wouldn't a 0.7% percent positive test rate be a pretty good sign....and wouldn't testing asymptomatic people likely turn up a percent positive test rate even lower than that, given that symptomatic people have a 0.7% positive test rate? We talked about obesity rates.....but healthy people still often have the cough, fever, loss of senses, etc.

Again....in all sincerity....what am I missing?
 

John_J_Rambo

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Jan 10, 2020
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Help me out here...and I mean this sincerely.....

If a country was only testing people with symptoms, wouldn't a 0.7% percent positive test rate be a pretty good sign....and wouldn't testing asymptomatic people likely turn up a percent positive test rate even lower than that, given that symptomatic people have a 0.7% positive test rate? We talked about obesity rates.....but healthy people still often have the cough, fever, loss of senses, etc.

Again....in all sincerity....what am I missing?
80%+ of positives are asymptomatic. the amount of tests done here is magnitudes higher. of course the % positives are higher. the environment alone, like deaths, practically dictates the result.

comparing any country to another with such variance in overall health prior to covid is pointless, unless you wish to discuss how we got there in the first place.

it's like asking why a wildfire burned acres of high desert when a fire in a rainforest hardly burned at all.
 
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Nebraska_Reality

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Oct 23, 2019
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80%+ of positives are asymptomatic. the amount of tests done here is magnitudes higher. of course the % positives are higher. the environment alone, like deaths, practically dictates the result.

comparing any country to another with such variance in overall health prior to covid is pointless, unless you wish to discuss how we got there in the first place.

it's like asking why a wildfire burned acres of high desert when a fire in a rainforest hardly burned at all.
OK....fair enough. I was just looking at info on % of asymptomatic positives. I was coming across numbers ranging from 45% to 96%.

Still though.....if a country is only testing symptomatic people (those very likely to be positive), and the percent positive test rate is that low, the country is probably in better shape than the US, even with having unaccounted for cases....but I suppose we have to agree to disagree on that.

Have a nice evening/ early morning.
 

John_J_Rambo

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OK....fair enough. I was just looking at info on % of asymptomatic positives. I was coming across numbers ranging from 45% to 96%.

Still though.....if a country is only testing symptomatic people (those very likely to be positive), and the percent positive test rate is that low, the country is probably in better shape than the US, even with having unaccounted for cases....but I suppose we have to agree to disagree on that.

Have a nice evening/ early morning.
96%!

"yea but still". classic.

guessing that makes you right? or is it a tie? lol.

symptomatic people are less likely to be positive, according, again, to the stats. they are not "very likely to be positive". like you said, just because covid exists doesn't lessen infection rates of other illnesses. and, in case you haven't noticed, covid's symptoms are pretty ubiquitous. those tested are absolutely a self-selecting group, whether they're showing symptoms or not.

places like taiwan don't allow those most likely to test positive (asymptomatic, but expect they've been exposed and/or made to test very frequently in order to work) to actually test, when the US is actively looking for it.

trying to compare results in these environments as if it's even remotely comparable is, statistically, trash math and neither here nor there.
 
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jlb321

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Aug 8, 2014
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80%+ of positives are asymptomatic. the amount of tests done here is magnitudes higher. of course the % positives are higher. the environment alone, like deaths, practically dictates the result.

comparing any country to another with such variance in overall health prior to covid is pointless, unless you wish to discuss how we got there in the first place.

it's like asking why a wildfire burned acres of high desert when a fire in a rainforest hardly burned at all.
If you primarily test people with symptoms your percent positive will be much higher - their pretest probability is higher

If you had to bet a $1000 on which patient was going to test + for COVID would you bet it on someone with fever, muscle aches and shortness of breath or someone with no symptoms

Many hospital systems report % positive in all patients, in pts with COVID symptoms and patients without symptoms. Everyone I have seen is much higher in pts with symptoms.
Interested to see where testing asymptomatic patients leads to higher % positive than testing primarily symptomatic.

here are UCSFs numbers 6.55% w symptoms - 0.57% wo symptoms — 2.4% overall - they are representative of other systems

Testing asymptomatic people drives the overall % positive down by more than half in this case

 
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Nebraska_Reality

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Oct 23, 2019
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96%!

"yea but still". classic.

guessing that makes you right? or is it a tie? lol.

symptomatic people are less likely to be positive, according, again, to the stats. they are not "very likely to be positive". like you said, just because covid exists doesn't lessen infection rates of other illnesses. and, in case you haven't noticed, covid's symptoms are pretty ubiquitous. those tested are absolutely a self-selecting group, whether they're showing symptoms or not.

places like taiwan don't allow those most likely to test positive (asymptomatic, but expect they've been exposed and/or made to test very frequently in order to work) to actually test, when the US is actively looking for it.

trying to compare results in these environments as if it's even remotely comparable is, statistically, trash math and neither here nor there.
OK.....

I'm not saying that Taiwan doesn't have a higher % positive test rate than what they're currently showing, but I'd bet good money that their numbers would still be better than the US if they were testing at the same rate.....but I digress...

Daily Tests per Million People (8/6)
United Arab Emirates- 4,214
Denmark- 3,132
Australia- 2,620
United States- 2,160

Daily Confirmed Cases per Million People (8/6)
United Arab Emirates- 22.24 (0.52%)
Denmark- 16.11 (0.51%)
Australia- 19.14 (0.73%)
United States- 162.96 (7.54%)

So, is it fair to say that the UAE, Denmark and Australia are doing better than the US, or does this comparison have some kind of mitigating factor as well?
 

GBRforLife1

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Feb 18, 2020
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If you primarily test people with symptoms your percent positive will be much higher - their pretest probability is higher

If you had to bet a $1000 on which patient was going to test + for COVID would you bet it on someone with fever, muscle aches and shortness of breath or someone with no symptoms

Many hospital systems report % positive in all patients, in pts with COVID symptoms and patients without symptoms. Everyone I have seen is much higher in pts with symptoms.
Interested to see where testing asymptomatic patients leads to higher % positive than testing primarily symptomatic.

here are UCSFs numbers 6.55% w symptoms - 0.57% wo symptoms — 2.4% overall - they are representative of other systems

Testing asymptomatic people drives the overall % positive down by more than half in this case

10s of millions out of work for barely a half percent. Ridiculous.
 

GBRforLife1

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Feb 18, 2020
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OK.....

I'm not saying that Taiwan doesn't have a higher % positive test rate than what they're currently showing, but I'd bet good money that their numbers would still be better than the US if they were testing at the same rate.....but I digress...

Daily Tests per Million People (8/6)
United Arab Emirates- 4,214
Denmark- 3,132
Australia- 2,620
United States- 2,160

Daily Confirmed Cases per Million People (8/6)
United Arab Emirates- 22.24 (0.52%)
Denmark- 16.11 (0.51%)
Australia- 19.14 (0.73%)
United States- 162.96 (7.54%)

So, is it fair to say that the UAE, Denmark and Australia are doing better than the US, or does this comparison have some kind of mitigating factor as well?
The US is doing around 800,000 tests a day. Can you tell me why Denmark wouldn't do 800,000 tests a day?
 
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May 15, 2018
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My sister-in-law thinks that Democrats are the ones controlling vaccine research, and that if Trump wins, there won't be a vaccine until he's out in 2025. But if Biden wins, there will be a vaccine by the end of the year.

Pretty bold prediction....since it has been stated for a long time that the end of the year will likely be the quickest it would be available.
Tell your sister in-law I've got some priceless sand from the Sandhills to sell her, what a nut case
 

schuele

Athletic Director
Apr 17, 2005
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the obesity rate (obesity is the #1 comorbidity with COVID deaths, which is why it's relevant here) in taiwan is 11%. in the US it's 40%.

death count and obesity rate in a country are directly linked. death count and government response are not. this post, like many of your others, makes people dumber.
I completely agree with you about the obesity rate contributing significantly to the U.S. death and hospitalization count. But do you remember how the last campaign to address obesity was received?

The same blowhards who by Gawd ain't gonna let Lowe's or Walmart tell 'em to wear no face diaper were outraged at the idea that Cletus Jr. should maybe lay off the fast food and get off the sofa once in a while.
 
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dinglefritz

College Football Hall of Fame
Jan 14, 2011
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Does the percentage of tests that come back positive tell us anything?

And no, I do not teach math or stats.
Not really. Statistically there's way too much variation on who is getting tested from country to country. In this country for the most part people who have been in contact with a known positive are told to self isolate and are NOT being tested unless they become symptomatic. Basically other than pro athletes and their support staff, the only people getting tested are symptomatic and have reason to believe they have COVID. That dramatically skews towards giving a higher percentage of positive tests. IMO that is still the right way to do things. That isn't the case everywhere. In some locales in Europe they are doing (or did) wide spread testing of cities. That MIGHT slow spread some but in the end it won't stop it. We will NOT eradicate this through testing. The ONLY way testing works is IF you test the ENTIRE population ALL at once then ELIMINATE carriers. Otherwise testing is of limited value. With all of New York's stringent protocols, they still have community transmission.

In some eastern European countries they're doing exactly like China did. In Romania for instance if you are suspected of having COVID, you're locked up in a "hospital" ward. IF you enter the country, you're quarantined for 2 weeks and the police check you at least daily to make sure you're in your domicile. Yeah. I don't tihnk that will work here. If you break your quarantine you're hauled off to prison.
 
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bingo65

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Jun 18, 2020
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10s of millions out of work for barely a half percent. Ridiculous.
the covid numbers are as low as they are primarily because there are many unemployed people. you seem stuck on highlighting the low virus numbers and high unemployment but refuse to acknowledge its the high unemployment that is a primary reason the virus numbers are as low as they are. Its give and take. its impossible to have everything
 

GBRforLife1

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Feb 18, 2020
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the covid numbers are as low as they are primarily because there are many unemployed people. you seem stuck on highlighting the low virus numbers and high unemployment but refuse to acknowledge its the high unemployment that is a primary reason the virus numbers are as low as they are. Its give and take. its impossible to have everything
You spew a lot of idiocy from this second account, but this might be one for your highlight reel.

Hey guys did you hear we have a vaccine for the wuflu? It's unemployment.
 

John_J_Rambo

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OK.....

I'm not saying that Taiwan doesn't have a higher % positive test rate than what they're currently showing, but I'd bet good money that their numbers would still be better than the US if they were testing at the same rate.....but I digress...

Daily Tests per Million People (8/6)
United Arab Emirates- 4,214
Denmark- 3,132
Australia- 2,620
United States- 2,160

Daily Confirmed Cases per Million People (8/6)
United Arab Emirates- 22.24 (0.52%)
Denmark- 16.11 (0.51%)
Australia- 19.14 (0.73%)
United States- 162.96 (7.54%)

So, is it fair to say that the UAE, Denmark and Australia are doing better than the US, or does this comparison have some kind of mitigating factor as well?
do I have to hold your hand through this again? unless all things are equal (they're not), these comparisons are meaningless.

they've had less deaths, sure. but, once again, since death rate and gov't response don't correlate, you cannot keep cramming this correlation down everyone's throat as causation.

that's it. that's the basis of statistical comparison we all learned when we were 13 years old.

I understand wanting to blame the boogeyman or folks you feel are less intelligent or less responsible than yourself. but we did this to ourselves, one big mac at a time.
 
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Crazyhole

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Jun 4, 2004
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Bizarre but appropriate for the moronic post he responded to.Winking
You might appreciate this one:

A nurse friend of mine works in a hospital that has had several covid patients. They have abandoned the use of HCQ out of fear of qt interval prolongation. I asked what they were doing for treatment and she said they are giving everyone levaquin. I almost fell over laughing.
 
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jeans15

Head Coach
Feb 23, 2011
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Per Fauci under oath other countries shutdown 95% of their country. We only did 50%.. per Fauci

Thats why the numbers are better so to speak.

Anf how we code Covid deaths is different than those nations.
 
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wkato

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Dec 23, 2006
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you think if biden gets elected people will all of a sudden stop testing positive? maybe i'm missing something but i think the doctors have had a lot of pull on how we have responded to this virus. They are the ones preaching preventative measures and caution. The democrats are just parroting what the doctors say they are not inventing the measures themselves. so i m not sure why we are pointing fingers at political parties and not at the source of the recommended measures. The medical community. The dems didn't invent lockdown. the medical community did. by and large almost every doctor i have talked with over 30 years for 8 hours a day 365 days a year has leaned heavily towards republican agenda. why would republicans want to do something to get rid of republican leadership?
...and who funds the medical groups research. Which group of doctors are they questioning. There are opposing doctors being silenced.
 
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gw2kpro

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Dec 2, 2007
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the covid numbers are as low as they are primarily because there are many unemployed people. you seem stuck on highlighting the low virus numbers and high unemployment but refuse to acknowledge its the high unemployment that is a primary reason the virus numbers are as low as they are. Its give and take. its impossible to have everything
 

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