Why argue? When you are right sometimes you just need to ignore that mosquito buzzing in your ear.
Michigan and Harbaugh..
- Thread starter starhusker
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Why argue? When you are right sometimes you just need to ignore that mosquito buzzing in your ear.
Fwiw...
The people who are saying Harbaugh inherited talent are not incorrect. However, he had very raw talent that he and his staff turned around quickly - of particular note a handful of guys who the last staff gave up on (weren't coming close to seeing the field outside of special teams and appeared likely to never have that happen outside of a transfer). In addition, while Michigan has a lot of senior starters he has had to get a lot of the freshman up to speed and ready quickly because of a down swing in recruiting that happened after this year's graduating class. We have had roughly 23 true freshmen play this year and some in key roles including on the lines (our starting LG is a true frosh).
As has been noted (earlier in the thread), while Michigan isn't exactly paying JH peanuts he did leave some money on the table to increase the pool available for assistants. JH certainly should get credit for hiring these guys and setting up a structure for them to work in, however these guys deserve more credit. Their resumes are pretty incredible and without a staff like that it wouldn't have happened as quickly. For example, our DL coach was the DC for UF during Meyer's first NC and the DC of the Baltimore Ravens during their last Super Bowl. And he was willing to take a demotion to work for JH. The guy JH initially hired as the DC in now the HC at Maryland...and when he left JH went out and got the guy who ran the #1 D in the country last year.
Even the times he has gone out and hired "younger" guys he seems to get it right. A key to this, that is starting to surface is he is essentially starting a bullpen of coaches by hiring a bunch of young but experienced (either as uber successful HS HCs or at smaller colleges) to administrative and analyst positions. There is nothing illegal about it and Michigan is not the first to do it. But in true Harbaugh fashion he is taking it to an extreme in numbers.
There is no reason NU can't do it too...it just takes money (gotta pay them) and a good enough relationship between riley and these guys where they are willing to take less authority to learn with hopes of it leading to bigger things. In the two full assistant hires we did make this past off season one did come from the bullpen (a former two time state champion HS HC who had just spent a year on our recruiting staff). The entirety of what JH is doing (giving himself the ability to hire name assistants AND also build a pipeline of young potential coaching talent) is the real difference.
The people who are saying Harbaugh inherited talent are not incorrect. However, he had very raw talent that he and his staff turned around quickly - of particular note a handful of guys who the last staff gave up on (weren't coming close to seeing the field outside of special teams and appeared likely to never have that happen outside of a transfer). In addition, while Michigan has a lot of senior starters he has had to get a lot of the freshman up to speed and ready quickly because of a down swing in recruiting that happened after this year's graduating class. We have had roughly 23 true freshmen play this year and some in key roles including on the lines (our starting LG is a true frosh).
As has been noted (earlier in the thread), while Michigan isn't exactly paying JH peanuts he did leave some money on the table to increase the pool available for assistants. JH certainly should get credit for hiring these guys and setting up a structure for them to work in, however these guys deserve more credit. Their resumes are pretty incredible and without a staff like that it wouldn't have happened as quickly. For example, our DL coach was the DC for UF during Meyer's first NC and the DC of the Baltimore Ravens during their last Super Bowl. And he was willing to take a demotion to work for JH. The guy JH initially hired as the DC in now the HC at Maryland...and when he left JH went out and got the guy who ran the #1 D in the country last year.
Even the times he has gone out and hired "younger" guys he seems to get it right. A key to this, that is starting to surface is he is essentially starting a bullpen of coaches by hiring a bunch of young but experienced (either as uber successful HS HCs or at smaller colleges) to administrative and analyst positions. There is nothing illegal about it and Michigan is not the first to do it. But in true Harbaugh fashion he is taking it to an extreme in numbers.
There is no reason NU can't do it too...it just takes money (gotta pay them) and a good enough relationship between riley and these guys where they are willing to take less authority to learn with hopes of it leading to bigger things. In the two full assistant hires we did make this past off season one did come from the bullpen (a former two time state champion HS HC who had just spent a year on our recruiting staff). The entirety of what JH is doing (giving himself the ability to hire name assistants AND also build a pipeline of young potential coaching talent) is the real difference.
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Appreciate your input here. I`ve always respected Harbaugh because he was the only coach that had the stones to step up and challenge Pete the cheat Carroll.
We are never going to be like Michigan or Ohio State because we neither have the money resources nor immediate fertile recruiting grounds to attract a high profile coach. We don't have a recent winning tradition either.
With that said, we can and should be beating the other teams in our division - namely Wisconsin and Iowa. It amazes that Wisconsin has been through two coaches since Bielma and doesn't seem to miss a beat. They always seem to play harder, and be so much better prepared for games than us. Iowa was the more physical team this year for sure. Nebraska has not been a physical team in 15 years. How did we ever lose this?
With that said, we can and should be beating the other teams in our division - namely Wisconsin and Iowa. It amazes that Wisconsin has been through two coaches since Bielma and doesn't seem to miss a beat. They always seem to play harder, and be so much better prepared for games than us. Iowa was the more physical team this year for sure. Nebraska has not been a physical team in 15 years. How did we ever lose this?
If those are the criteria for a top-notch program, I guess that Texas didn't get the memo
I think Riley is a good coach that will leave this program better than when he got here.. Hopefully handing the reigns off to a coach that truly emulates what Husker fans want so badly. Good physical football. This 1-2 yrs crap is nonsense. I don't think Riley is Meyer, Saban,or Harbaugh, but I think he can get them on the right track (personel wise)if given several yrs. then hopefully find the home run hire for next coach. A Saban or Meyer disciple, or a guy like Brent Venebles that can recruit and has good resume of being with winners
Agree, both Meyer and Harbaugh inherited a pretty darn good roster of players, I think even Saban would have a hard time doing much with Nebraska's roster as it currently sits. Barry Switzer is right about the jimmies and joes not so much the x's and o's.
"The reason Nebraska got Mike Riley was no other big time coach wanted to come here."
Didn't know this, who within the hiring process at NU made you aware of the fact that Riley was hired as Plan B? Thanks in advance.
Didn't know this, who within the hiring process at NU made you aware of the fact that Riley was hired as Plan B? Thanks in advance.
The only way we can get big time recruits to come play here is if we start beating the big boy programs in the league (or at least look competitive) and winning our division on a regular basis. Doesn't matter if Saban, Urban Meyer, or Harbaugh was here. Winning programs attract the best players.
Wetting the bed on Prime Time over and over is embarrassing but I do think Riley has the program headed in the right direction. We need to beat everyone in our division first (especially Wisconsin and Iowa) and then show we can play with Michigan and Ohio State. This is going to take time to build some quality depth.
Ohio State 6-6 the year before Meyer arrived... with a loss to Nebraska. How the hell did Meyer get recruits to come to Ohio State?
Alabama before Saban arrived... 6-7. How the hell did Saban get recruits to come to Alabama? Especially when he lost to Louisiana Monroe his first season?
And with Harbaugh, even though the pickin's are slim, he did turn around a San Diego State University team and Stanford as well... Again, how the hell did he get recruits to come to his school?
Just admit that these three coaches can turn around programs anywhere... It's ok to admit that. I don't dispute that winning programs attract recruits, but it's silly to say they wouldn't come here if one of these coaches were coaching here.
Saban's first year at Alabama the Tide went 7-6. OSU did go 12-0 Meyer's first year in Columbus. Harbaugh turned things around at Stanford, but he didn't do it overnight.: 2007- 4-8, 2008- 5-7, 2009- 8-5, 2010- 12-1. How did they get recruits to come to their schools? Location, location, location. The number of blue chip recruits within the 500 mile radius of any of those schools dwarfs that of NU. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. It's going to be a longer haul at NU for that reason alone. The Huskers have been mediocre for far too long for a 1 or 2 year turnaround. Add in the holes in the roster and the BoBo culture and Riley has a much tougher job than any of the above mentioned coaches at their current schools.
As I recall, Meyer had no interest in coming to NU from Utah because he said it would be too hard to recruit to.
Is Riley the answer? Who knows. Only time will tell, but if you expected NU to be playing for an NC this year, I've got some ocean front property in North Dakota I'd love to sell you.
So you are saying these coaches couldn't recruit here. OK... If you believe that, I don't know what to tell you.
But I do have some ocean property for sale as well, only mine is in Montana... hit me up, then you can diversify your properties and add to your collection.
I will say, your post about Stanford proves my point... with Stanford going 4-8 and then 5-7, why would any top recruit want to go there? I get the power of location, I really do... All I am saying is if you have the right coach (see Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh), he can bring in the recruits. Period.
Edit: And who said anything about playing for an NC this year?
[QUOTE="nordakotahusker, As I recall, Meyer had no interest in coming to NU from Utah because he said it would be too hard to recruit to. [/QUOTE]
According to Meyer, in a 2011 interview with the OWH, this was the reason why he had no interest in NU:
"We actually were contacted by a third party. Not directly. I remember thinking about it. I had such great respect for Solich — he's an Ohio guy who's a good friend of mine — and I didn't agree with everything that went down. He won 10 games that year, right? That was alarming to me. I'm a coach, and whenever I see that happening to a coach, I think there's got to be something behind Door No. 1 to fire him after he won 10 games. I remember having great respect for the school but being concerned about what happened — and why it happened. If 10 games isn't good enough, I'm not sure what is."
According to Meyer, in a 2011 interview with the OWH, this was the reason why he had no interest in NU:
"We actually were contacted by a third party. Not directly. I remember thinking about it. I had such great respect for Solich — he's an Ohio guy who's a good friend of mine — and I didn't agree with everything that went down. He won 10 games that year, right? That was alarming to me. I'm a coach, and whenever I see that happening to a coach, I think there's got to be something behind Door No. 1 to fire him after he won 10 games. I remember having great respect for the school but being concerned about what happened — and why it happened. If 10 games isn't good enough, I'm not sure what is."
[QUOTE="LBremser, post: 3119622, member: 10818"][QUOTE="nordakotahusker, As I recall, Meyer had no interest in coming to NU from Utah because he said it would be too hard to recruit to. [/QUOTE]
According to Meyer, in a 2011 interview with the OWH, this was the reason why he had no interest in NU:
"We actually were contacted by a third party. Not directly. I remember thinking about it. I had such great respect for Solich — he's an Ohio guy who's a good friend of mine — and I didn't agree with everything that went down. He won 10 games that year, right? That was alarming to me. I'm a coach, and whenever I see that happening to a coach, I think there's got to be something behind Door No. 1 to fire him after he won 10 games. I remember having great respect for the school but being concerned about what happened — and why it happened. If 10 games isn't good enough, I'm not sure what is."[/QUOTE]
I've heard and read this before and always thought it was sorta bullshit.
Sometimes when you're presented with an opportunity you don't really want, you latch onto something you might not actually believe in order to justify why you don't take advantage of said opportunity.
According to Meyer, in a 2011 interview with the OWH, this was the reason why he had no interest in NU:
"We actually were contacted by a third party. Not directly. I remember thinking about it. I had such great respect for Solich — he's an Ohio guy who's a good friend of mine — and I didn't agree with everything that went down. He won 10 games that year, right? That was alarming to me. I'm a coach, and whenever I see that happening to a coach, I think there's got to be something behind Door No. 1 to fire him after he won 10 games. I remember having great respect for the school but being concerned about what happened — and why it happened. If 10 games isn't good enough, I'm not sure what is."[/QUOTE]
I've heard and read this before and always thought it was sorta bullshit.
Sometimes when you're presented with an opportunity you don't really want, you latch onto something you might not actually believe in order to justify why you don't take advantage of said opportunity.
Not saying they couldn't recruit here, but saying they wouldn't be recruiting as well as they are at their current schools. They can all obviously recruit well, but they're doing it at places that are, geographically at least, much easier to recruit to than NU. Can't remember the numbers, but a high percentage of recruits choose a school that's relatively close to where they attended high school. It's a huge obstacle.
Let's see, why would any recruit want to go to Stanford? Maybe because its one of the best schools in the country academically? UM has a pretty good reputation in that regard too. Alabama obviously not so much. Harbaugh didn't just show up to Stanford and flip a switch to get results. It took several years.
So 3 coaches could recruit to NU. Don't think any of them are coming. What do you do now? I know money talks, but I don't think NU is going to pony up $10 million plus for a football coach any time soon. Maybe they should.
I realize you didn't say anything about an NC this year. I'm just saying its not going to happen overnight. I think things are heading in the right direction and am willing to have a little patience.
I stand corrected on the reason Meyer had no interest in coming to NU after Solich. My bad.
True enough, but why would Meyer bring it up four years later when everyone had moved on?
Look at where Urban is getting his players from. Each year since he has been there, less and less kids from Ohio. More from Nevada, Texas and Florida. Last I checked neither is close to Columbus and Columbus isn't anymore a tropical oasis than Lincoln.
if you put a product on the field that will get players to the league, top players will come to your school if you recruit them.
if you put a product on the field that will get players to the league, top players will come to your school if you recruit them.
You realize Nebraska is 3-3 against Michigan and Ohio State since joining the Big right?
It
Urban definitely recruits nationally, but in the last 4 classes (2013 - 2016), he has landed 23 4 star recruits (Rivals rankings) from Ohio alone - didn't bother to check the rest of their 500 mile radius. Don't think we'd have to be playing too many walk-ons if there was that kind of talent in Nebraska.
Urban definitely recruits nationally, but in the last 4 classes (2013 - 2016), he has landed 23 4 star recruits (Rivals rankings) from Ohio alone - didn't bother to check the rest of their 500 mile radius. Don't think we'd have to be playing too many walk-ons if there was that kind of talent in Nebraska.
You need to look at trends. Most of those 23 were in year one and year 2. In 2017 class he has almost as many from IMG Academy as he does from Ohio.
The number of 4 stars from Ohio has been pretty consistent over that time frame.
.
2013 - 5
2014 - 7
2015 - 5
2016 - 6
I didn't even look at 2017 as they haven't signed yet and the list could change a lot by February.
I think the bigger point is how many instate players Meyer has turned down. There are 4* players, instate, that 95% of programs would go all out for, that he could of landed if he wanted to and he didn't bother because he thought other players out of state were better...and he is landing those out of state players.
Look at the average star rating in those 2 classes. They ranked 15 and 18 in average star rating. Also look at the 2 classes before those which would be current upperclassmen. Almost all of michigans starters are from those two top 7 classes.
If we would have played both teams every year since joining the Big-10, I think those numbers would be worse. If Meyer and Harbaugh were the coaches during the years we won instead of Interim coach Fickell (OSU) and Hoke the numbers definitely would be worse.
Bottom line is we need to start beating Wisconsin and Iowa each year and we have not proven we can do that yet.
I know they would, but it has nothing to do with the reason Nebraska's recruiting has stunk in the past. The recruiting was garbage because of the lazy clueless staff that resided in Lincoln before Riley and company showed up.
Talent is talent, raw or not.
He inherited some talent, AND he is a great coach and a great recruiter, with a solid staff. Success comes from focusing on all things.
I'm OK with most of what you posted except for one thing, how do you know that no other big time coach wanted to come here? Inside info? Are you an agent for a big time coach? It's pretty impossible to know that unless you have bigtime connections?
Indeed. People keep throwing out "big time coach" as if there 20 guys out there with Natty's to pick from.
Bob Stoops in what, year 17, still got rolled by the same OSU team that rolled us.
Bob Stoops in what, year 17, still got rolled by the same OSU team that rolled us.
And rumor has it, the Oregon is going to spend $10 million and go after someone like Lane Kiffin.
People want to talk about "big boy" moves, but outside of the three or four sure fire guys, everyone else is just throwing money down the drain to say they did something.
I don't even know who CU's coach is, and seems like the best hire a school has made in awhile, outside of UT and Herman. Or maybe Chryst and Wisconsin. However, I don't think Chryst is on everyone's dream sheet 2 years ago as far as NU fans go.
And even McIntyre was a Plan B. Colorado only hired him after Butch Jones used them to leverage more money from Tennessee.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all...just expanding on the topic...
Hoke recruited some players with natural ability. However, he and his staff never developed that talent one bit. At times it even looked like players got worse as in learning bad happens and how to get fat. The point I was trying to make is how quickly Harbaugh and staff turned that around.
It didn't take 2/3 years and we saw improvement game to game. I honestly think that if you took the back half of our roster, talent wise, and gave it to Harbaugh he would beat the front half coached by Hoke if you gave them both half a year to work with them. So yes, talent is talent but talent means little if not developed. And it's not what you say (as a coach) but what you do and prove.
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