Kobe and Mike won 11 championships with the same coach....

[leodisflowers]

Some of these are reasons why I have to put MJ above him. It can be frustrating how passive he is at times. In some of those playoffs series where he didn't have much help, he should've been averaging 40 points because he was by far the best option on the team rather than being satisfied with 30.

But I have to disagree that he isn't as skilled as other players. His skills are more suited towards playmaking rather than pure scoring, but that doesn't make him less skilled. He has the skills to pretty much play and defend any position on the court. Using your size to get to the rack is a skill in and of itself. Refs in general are terrible at calling offensive fouls and every other player takes advantage of that too. Why shouldn't Lebron?

I said, as he should do. For LeBrons size and athleticism he should get 40 about every night as there is no way for anyone in the NBA to match up to him. He should just be able to put his head down and get buckets. Anyway, I think Lebron is awesome as I think he is #2 all time. He just isn't Jordan for me.

 

[JabroniBlvd]

Stats have also been inflated for the past 5+ years...almost like saying Montana never threw for 5,000 yards (in fact never threw for even 4,000) but WOW look at Matt Stafford doing 5k. Westbrook avg a triple double for 3 straight seasons! Harden has been avg 34 ppg for the past 3 seasons on avg! Like cmon people - some of you might need to stick to football.

Mid 90s through 2000s NBA scores were much lower meaning it was harder to inflate stats. MJ and Kobe still put up great numbers.If you watched the doc on MJ and the Bulls some of those playoff scores we will never see today. Not close.

 

[Kleitusbpn]

I’m 51. I see talent. Guys like Durant are freaks. While piston defense was tough, they were slow.

Young Rodman wasn't. And frankly if they called the game like they did when the pistons were Champs it wouldn't matter.

It was a different game. I like watching the modern game on occasion but defense isn't allowed. And the philosophy of "if you're going to get a foul, GET A DAMN FOUL " isnt remotely allowed.

It just depends on how it is reffed. I've said jordan would get 20 from the line in modern basketball. Every game. Because he'd just go straight to the hoop every time and it would be the only way to stop him.

It was the only way then too. Plus they could damn near rip his head off with no consequences. And they did. Detroits "Jordan rules".

Nobody knows how LeBron would react to a fouling strategy because he has never had to deal with it. Not like that anyway. And that's not a bad thing to be honest. But Jordan did have to deal with it and nothing else needs to be said.

 

[huskerhooligansdotcom]

Lol.....Kyrie won that title for Cleveland. He was the man under pressure and Lebron was his Pippen in that finals.

Lebron had the most points, the most assists, the most rebounds, the most steals, and the most blocks of all players in that finals. Kyrie played great and hit the winning shot, sure, but c'mon man

 

[huskerhooligansdotcom]

Young Rodman wasn't. And frankly if they called the game like they did when the pistons were Champs it wouldn't matter.

It was a different game. I like watching the modern game on occasion but defense isn't allowed. And the philosophy of "if you're going to get a foul, GET A DAMN FOUL " isnt remotely allowed.

It just depends on how it is reffed. I've said jordan would get 20 from the line in modern basketball. Every game. Because he'd just go straight to the hoop every time and it would be the only way to stop him.

It was the only way then too. Plus they could damn near rip his head off with no consequences. And they did. Detroits "Jordan rules".

Nobody knows how LeBron would react to a fouling strategy because he has never had to deal with it. Not like that anyway. And that's not a bad thing to be honest. But Jordan did have to deal with it and nothing else needs to be said.

This is a good point. But Lebron is also bigger and stronger than any of those dudes on the pistons. They would foul him like that at their own peril. Who knows how he would have reacted.

 

[Kleitusbpn]

This is a good point. But Lebron is also bigger and stronger than any of those dudes on the pistons. They would foul him like that at their own peril. Who knows how he would have reacted.

Badly. At least at first. He's too used to being coddled. After that who knows. You never really know until it happens (which it obviously won't).

 

[leodisflowers]

Lebron had the most points, the most assists, the most rebounds, the most steals, and the most blocks of all players in that finals. Kyrie played great and hit the winning shot, sure, but c'mon man

You aint wrong.

 

[leodisflowers]

Badly. At least at first. He's too used to being coddled. After that who knows. You never really know until it happens (which it obviously won't).

And those dudes wouldn't give a shit of how Lebron reacted. The Lambeers, Oakleys, Anthony Masons of the world would have thrown punches. I'm not sure how Lebron is as a fighter. Maybe he is decent?

 

[PvilleHuskerTim]

This is a good point. But Lebron is also bigger and stronger than any of those dudes on the pistons. They would foul him like that at their own peril. Who knows how he would have reacted.

History has shown that LeBron would react like a baby.

 

[scarletred]

Dude....

I mean Pete was a top 5 college player ever thats not a bad guy to be behind

Pistol Pete is the youngest player ever to be inducted to the NBA hall of fame... Most likely Kobe Bryant will join him this year..

 

[scarletred]

My list
1) MJ
2) Kareem
3) Wilt
4) Bill Russell
5) Kobe
6) Lebron
7) Tim Duncan
8) Oscar Robinson
9) Magic
10) Bird

There‘s one player your missing that should be ahead of Oscar Roberson maybe even Tim Duncan and that is Julius Erving..

 

[TampaBaySkers]

History has shown that LeBron would react like a baby.

Lebron plays soft. Not saying he couldn’t adjust though.

 

[PvilleHuskerTim]

Pistol Pete is the youngest player ever to be inducted to the NBA hall of fame... Most likely Kobe Bryant will join him this year..

Pete Maravich is the best basketball player of all time. No one before, or after, him could do the things he did.

 

[scarletred]

Pete Maravich is the best basketball player of all time. No one before, or after, him could do the things he did.

He doesn’t get the credit as much as some of the others that are mentioned because he never won a championship.

He was way ahead of his time and all the famous passes have been copied from his accomplishments..

 

[mwulf]

Pistol Pete is the youngest player ever to be inducted to the NBA hall of fame... Most likely Kobe Bryant will join him this year..

Wasnt it just the basketball Hall? I dont think they differentiate between college pro, mens womens etc

 

[scarletred]

Wasnt it just the basketball Hall? I dont think they differentiate between college pro, mens womens etc

Yep!

 

[oldjar07]

Young Rodman wasn't. And frankly if they called the game like they did when the pistons were Champs it wouldn't matter.

It was a different game. I like watching the modern game on occasion but defense isn't allowed. And the philosophy of "if you're going to get a foul, GET A DAMN FOUL " isnt remotely allowed.

It just depends on how it is reffed. I've said jordan would get 20 from the line in modern basketball. Every game. Because he'd just go straight to the hoop every time and it would be the only way to stop him.

It was the only way then too. Plus they could damn near rip his head off with no consequences. And they did. Detroits "Jordan rules".

Nobody knows how LeBron would react to a fouling strategy because he has never had to deal with it. Not like that anyway. And that's not a bad thing to be honest. But Jordan did have to deal with it and nothing else needs to be said.

For as good as Jordan would be offensively in today's NBA, Lebron would gain just as much on the defensive end if he was able to play in MJ's era. Lebron with hand checking allowed would be just about impossible to get around.

 

[Kleitusbpn]

For as good as Jordan would be offensively in today's NBA, Lebron would gain just as much on the defensive end if he was able to play in MJ's era. Lebron with hand checking allowed would be just about impossible to get around.

I have no doubt he'd have been good if he wanted to be. I've never seen that kind of drive from him defensively. You're basically saying he was pippen defensively if he wanted to be. I'm good with that as a potential he obviously has the physical tools.

There were some years where he was pretty not great defensively. And the physical toll was significantly greater on a body playing in that era. Just saying. They destroyed one another back then. All you have to do is pull up the tapes and look at what was called a foul.

Lebron is a great player. Im fine with him in the top 5. He isn't in Jordan's league. Jordan was a finesse player in a physical league. Put him in a finesse league and he eats it alive.

Lebron is a finesse player in a finesse league. It's a whole different ball game.

 

[orclover]

Stats have also been inflated for the past 5+ years...almost like saying Montana never threw for 5,000 yards (in fact never threw for even 4,000) but WOW look at Matt Stafford doing 5k. Westbrook avg a triple double for 3 straight seasons! Harden has been avg 34 ppg for the past 3 seasons on avg! Like cmon people - some of you might need to stick to football.

Mid 90s through 2000s NBA scores were much lower meaning it was harder to inflate stats. MJ and Kobe still put up great numbers.If you watched the doc on MJ and the Bulls some of those playoff scores we will never see today. Not close.

They weren't...there has been a recent inflation of scoring...especially in 2020...but scoring in 90-93 was higher than 14 of Lebron's seasons...and it isn't particularly close. The 90-93 season saw upwards of 106 ppg...between 2003 and 2015...Lebron's heydey, the NBA never eclipsed more than 102 ppg. Lebron's era was actually a relative dead ball era. 2016 to 2020 has seen a spike in scoring, but that didn't make Lebron, but was more a reaction to analytics and the defenses haven't caught up. Lebron had to go through the Pistons, Celtics, Spurs...all of which were known as tough defenses...and he carried an insane load in scoring but also providing scoring opportunities for teammates...he is 8th all time in assists...and will likely finish 3rd. He is third all time in scoring and will likely finish 2nd, with an outside shot at the all time record. He will also finish in the top 10 all time steals. And he will hold every scoring record in the playoffs. Jordan was the best of his era, but the fact he quit twice..means he should be somewhat penalized for having a short career. Lebron's longevity, health, and consistently have to be considered at making him the GOAT...especially if he gets to 4 or 5 championships. The choke job against the Mavericks really hurts Lebron, but I would contend it was as much based on context as anything. Kobe had a game 7 where he was 7 for 22, and 3 horrible games in a losing finals to the pistons where he shot 30% over a 3 game span.

 

[JabroniBlvd]

They weren't...there has been a recent inflation of scoring...especially in 2020...but scoring in 90-93 was higher than 14 of Lebron's seasons...and it isn't particularly close. The 90-93 season saw upwards of 106 ppg...between 2003 and 2015...Lebron's heydey, the NBA never eclipsed more than 102 ppg. Lebron's era was actually a relative dead ball era. 2016 to 2020 has seen a spike in scoring, but that didn't make Lebron, but was more a reaction to analytics and the defenses haven't caught up. Lebron had to go through the Pistons, Celtics, Spurs...all of which were known as tough defenses...and he carried an insane load in scoring but also providing scoring opportunities for teammates...he is 8th all time in assists...and will likely finish 3rd. He is third all time in scoring and will likely finish 2nd, with an outside shot at the all time record. He will also finish in the top 10 all time steals. And he will hold every scoring record in the playoffs. Jordan was the best of his era, but the fact he quit twice..means he should be somewhat penalized for having a short career. Lebron's longevity, health, and consistently have to be considered at making him the GOAT...especially if he gets to 4 or 5 championships. The choke job against the Mavericks really hurts Lebron, but I would contend it was as much based on context as anything. Kobe had a game 7 where he was 7 for 22, and 3 horrible games in a losing finals to the pistons where he shot 30% over a 3 game span.

You must have missed the "mid" 90s part....everyone now a days is putting up ridiculous stats. Butler just had a 40 pt triple double. Doncic was putting up silly numbers - zero % he does that in late 90s and 00's.

Lebron also got swept in 07' and shot 35% FG for the series. Ghosted against the Mavs where he was 3rd leading scorer at 17 ppg. In 15' he shot 39.8% in the Finals...

 

[kakdawg]

Rondo, Howard, Shaq, Ray Allen all wayyyy past their primes. They sound like great names but none of them were close to their peaks.

I laughed when I seen those names. All those guys were on their last legs when they teamed with Bron. Many times when u see things like that someone is trying to paint a narrative that needs some help lol. Not saying that's the case here but seriously...Rondo, Shaq, Howard, Allen...sounds good on paper. Not so much on the floor.


Holla

 

[red scowl]

What did Wade, Bosh, and Kyrie do once they left Lebron? Keep in mind lebron nearly won the finals without Kyrie or the other guy in 2015, won series when kyrie was benched for poor play. I would implore you to research the front office in cleveland in 2007-2009, check out their roster, and their decisions. Every talented seller would be encouraged to leave a failing business for a winning one, but a "basketball player" is considered a traitor for doing the same. Kobe threatened it, Jordan would have done it if his situation was less than perfect. It also made sense in the times, considering the Celtics had done the same the years before, setting the true precedent, and creating a long lasting super team that Lebron would have to beat. Lebron's decisions were brilliant every step of the way. Not sure why it is hard for this board to understand that a basketball player can be intelligent and make intelligent decisions to better their careers...or maybe I do understand

Lebron and nearly won seem forever associated. This is America. Second place is the first loser. He is down the list.

 

[Suhrreal]

Ya'll forget the NBA is an entertainment league first. Competition second, if that. Their job is not to have a fair competition to find the best team in the league, it's to build superstars and narratives. Been this way since I started watching which encompasses the Jordan era. Jordan was a tremendous athlete and competitor, but the NBA helped him out a lot. Anyone that watched all the games back then knows this. That's why he was out there looking roided out of his mind at 35+ winning titles. Now it's Lebron's turn.

And there is no question it's easier to score now than the 90's. Biggest beneficiaries are the shooters. That physical playstyle wreaks havoc on your rhythm as a shooter. Guys like Durant would no doubt still get their buckets due to their physical advantages, but things change a lot when you constantly have a hand or forearm on your hip. Getting your shot off 1v1 is a lot easier now.

As for Lebron hand-checking people on defense, just run him through picks all game long and he will wear out. He is not an endurance athlete (remember when he cramped out of the Finals and sat on the bench as they lost?).