Kobe and Mike won 11 championships with the same coach....

orclover

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Lebron has taken FIVE coaches to the NBA finals. Three of them were later forcibly retired.
 

TampaBaySkers

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Lebron is the perfect athlete. Jordan is the perfect basketball player, and a damn good athlete himself. There's no shame in being #2 behind a player like Jordan. That doesn't make Lebron a joke.
Not sure I’d call LeBron #2 quite yet. 2016 championship was a thing of beauty, but winning it all with super teams doesn’t impress me as much as others. He’s certainly a top 5 player, but not sure I’d put him at #2...yet.
 

PCastro

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Excellent point... Phil Jackson is the greatest ever, followed by Michael and then Kobe. Thanks for the research done on this!
Don’t have a dog in this fight but Jordan did play against a lot of players that could not sniff the nba now. Mark Jackson is one example of a laughable talent compared to now and he was an important piece back then for Knicks/Pacers . Not going to bother to keep naming but the level of play is WAY better now. No offense to us oldies but of all sports basketball talent has improved way more than other sports.
 
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TampaBaySkers

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Don’t have a dog in this fight but Jordan did play against a lot of players that could not sniff the nba now. Mark Jackson is one example of a laughable talent compared to now and he was an important piece back then for Knicks/Pacers . Not going to bother to keep naming but the level of play is WAY better now. No offense to us oldies but of all sports basketball talent has improved way more than other sports.
Not sure I agree. NBA was much more physical back in MJ’s day. Would LeBron get fatigued against a Piston’s defense?
 

timnsun

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Don’t have a dog in this fight but Jordan did play against a lot of players that could not sniff the nba now. Mark Jackson is one example of a laughable talent compared to now and he was an important piece back then for Knicks/Pacers . Not going to bother to keep naming but the level of play is WAY better now. No offense to us oldies but of all sports basketball talent has improved way more than other sports.
Then you would also say the 1995 husker team or the 1971 husker team isn’t the GOAT...

I feel like you have to measure according to era... did MJ dominate more than what LeBron is doing now?
 

GammaxuvirHusker

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Dec 8, 2014
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Don’t have a dog in this fight but Jordan did play against a lot of players that could not sniff the nba now. Mark Jackson is one example of a laughable talent compared to now and he was an important piece back then for Knicks/Pacers . Not going to bother to keep naming but the level of play is WAY better now. No offense to us oldies but of all sports basketball talent has improved way more than other sports.
That's a common misconception, especially the younger you are. There's some truth to that when you're comparing teams from the early days of the league, but I'd say it changed a lot around the 70's. There are plenty of big names from then to now who'd do just fine in the league today.

Jordan is the GOAT. Always will be in my book. LeBron is certainly up there, but let's not overlook such players as Bill Russell, Magic, Kareem, Wilt and Bird.
 
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PCastro

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That's a common misconception, especially the younger you are. There's some truth to that when you're comparing teams from the early days of the league, but I'd say it changed a lot around the 70's. There are plenty of big names from then to now who'd do just fine in the league today.

Jordan is the GOAT. Always will be in my book. LeBron is certainly up there, but let's not overlook such players as Bill Russell, Magic, Kareem, Wilt and Bird.
I’m 51. I see talent. Guys like Durant are freaks. While piston defense was tough, they were slow.
 

PCastro

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Then you would also say the 1995 husker team or the 1971 husker team isn’t the GOAT...

I feel like you have to measure according to era... did MJ dominate more than what LeBron is doing now?
No. I said basketball
 

oldjar07

First Team All-Big Ten
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That's a common misconception, especially the younger you are. There's some truth to that when you're comparing teams from the early days of the league, but I'd say it changed a lot around the 70's. There are plenty of big names from then to now who'd do just fine in the league today.

Jordan is the GOAT. Always will be in my book. LeBron is certainly up there, but let's not overlook such players as Bill Russell, Magic, Kareem, Wilt and Bird.
I'd have to agree with that, just look at the Toronto roster and how guys like Fred VanFleet and Kyle Lowry are giving the league fits, and they hardly look like professional athletes.

They've had some Wilt Chamberlain footage that's come out recently and he'd absolutely dominate the league today, just as he did back then. Maybe not with the same insane stats, but he would dominate nonetheless. I have Michael Jordan, Lebron James, and Wilt Chamberlain as the players who could do whatever they want on a basketball court and dominate anybody.
 
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timnsun

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No. I said basketball
So eras matter for football, but not basketball? If Jordan wouldn’t be as good today because the basketball is better, don’t you think the same is true for football?
 

PCastro

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So eras matter for football, but not basketball? If Jordan wouldn’t be as good today because the basketball is better, don’t you think the same is true for football?
Yes. More athletic young people play basketball vs football now than in the past. That itself makes a huge difference. AAU year round big time competition has pushed limits on the elite player. So it can vary by sport when variables vary by sport
 

timnsun

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Yes. More athletic young people play basketball vs football now than in the past. That itself makes a huge difference. AAU year round big time competition has pushed limits on the elite player. So it can vary by sport when variables vary by sport
Fair enough. We’ll agree to disagree.
 

oldjar07

First Team All-Big Ten
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Not sure I’d call LeBron #2 quite yet. 2016 championship was a thing of beauty, but winning it all with super teams doesn’t impress me as much as others. He’s certainly a top 5 player, but not sure I’d put him at #2...yet.
The vast majority of championships were won by super teams. MJ was on a super team during his championship run. Nearly all the greats played on super teams during their championship years: Shaq, Kobe, Magic, Kareem, Bird, Russell, and MJ.
 

oldjar07

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So eras matter for football, but not basketball? If Jordan wouldn’t be as good today because the basketball is better, don’t you think the same is true for football?
No it's not true for football. Our 90's football teams would be just as dominant today as they were back then. Jordan would also be just as dominant today as he was back then.
 
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JaySker402

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He would get KILLED against a Piston’s defense!
I dont think so actually. I think part of Lebron's schtick is that its a different game today. If he were to have played back then, he is physical enough to have probably held his own. It is just a different mentality today.
 

timnsun

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I dont think so actually. I think part of Lebron's schtick is that its a different game today. If he were to have played back then, he is physical enough to have probably held his own. It is just a different mentality today.
Good point, I suppose he would have to be tougher back then... didn’t really think about that. Thanks!
 

salsa red

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Lebron has killed his legacy. He will be known more for bowing down to china and blm than his athletic achievements. He refuses to say anything bad about china which is committing horrible human right atrocities but hates the police and the USA. The fact he can't condemn a police shooting is terrible.
 

orclover

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Lebron has killed his legacy. He will be known more for bowing down to china and blm than his athletic achievements. He refuses to say anything bad about china which is committing horrible human right atrocities but hates the police and the USA. The fact he can't condemn a police shooting is terrible.
Kobe Bryant sodomized a white girl against her will. Which is worse?
 

orclover

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The vast majority of championships were won by super teams. MJ was on a super team during his championship run. Nearly all the greats played on super teams during their championship years: Shaq, Kobe, Magic, Kareem, Bird, Russell, and MJ.
I think the relative rarity of free agency in the 90s cemented Jordan into being able to rack of championships without interruption. Analytically the teams that Jordan beat for championships were way down on the list of great teams as talent was much more spread out, and great players locked on mediocre teams. Also, in 2020, Pippen would have jumped ship to start a new team after a championship or two, especially cuz M.J was so caustic. If Lebron would have landed on San Antonio he likely has 6+ championships at this point... or if Golden state didn't get Durant, or the Celtics hadn't build a super team themselves.
 
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Lebron has been to the finals 9 times in 10 years. He also carried a bunch of scrubs to the finals while in his first stint with Cleveland... scoring the last 25 points for his team against the Pistons. He led the league in assists for the first time in his career this year, year 17. The dude is simply incredible.
 
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JabroniBlvd

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Lebron first left Cleveland with no titles...fine. Joined Wade and Bosh in Miami...then left back to Cleveland to join Irving...then now left to LA with Davis (LBJ missed the playoffs last year w/o him) who many said was the best player in the NBA...who knows what a few years later from now holds.

It's always easier to leave and join than to stay and win with the same team. Kobe, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Russell, Dirk, Hakeem, West >> for a reason. Stuck around.
 
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oldjar07

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Lebron first left Cleveland with no titles...fine. Joined Wade and Bosh in Miami...then left back to Cleveland to join Irving...then now left to LA with Davis (LBJ missed the playoffs last year w/o him) who many said was the best player in the NBA...who knows what a few years later from now holds.

It's always easier to leave and join than to stay and win with the same team. Kobe, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Russell, Dirk, Hakeem, West >> for a reason. Stuck around.
You're either an idiot or disingenuous, one of the two. I wish he would have stayed in Cleveland, but their front office didn't even attempt to put a good team around him while he was there the first time.

Literally nobody said Anthony Davis was the best player in the NBA. A lot of people had him outside of their top 5. And Davis didn't even join the Lakers until a year after Lebron did. The Lakers missed the playoffs last year because Lebron got injured. The Lakers were on their way to a relatively high seed, but dropped off a cliff once the injury happened.
 

orclover

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Lebron first left Cleveland with no titles...fine. Joined Wade and Bosh in Miami...then left back to Cleveland to join Irving...then now left to LA with Davis (LBJ missed the playoffs last year w/o him) who many said was the best player in the NBA...who knows what a few years later from now holds.

It's always easier to leave and join than to stay and win with the same team. Kobe, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Russell, Dirk, Hakeem, West >> for a reason. Stuck around.
What did Wade, Bosh, and Kyrie do once they left Lebron? Keep in mind lebron nearly won the finals without Kyrie or the other guy in 2015, won series when kyrie was benched for poor play. I would implore you to research the front office in cleveland in 2007-2009, check out their roster, and their decisions. Every talented seller would be encouraged to leave a failing business for a winning one, but a "basketball player" is considered a traitor for doing the same. Kobe threatened it, Jordan would have done it if his situation was less than perfect. It also made sense in the times, considering the Celtics had done the same the years before, setting the true precedent, and creating a long lasting super team that Lebron would have to beat. Lebron's decisions were brilliant every step of the way. Not sure why it is hard for this board to understand that a basketball player can be intelligent and make intelligent decisions to better their careers...or maybe I do understand :)
 
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JabroniBlvd

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You're either an idiot or disingenuous, one of the two. I wish he would have stayed in Cleveland, but their front office didn't even attempt to put a good team around him while he was there the first time.

Literally nobody said Anthony Davis was the best player in the NBA. A lot of people had him outside of their top 5. And Davis didn't even join the Lakers until a year after Lebron did. The Lakers missed the playoffs last year because Lebron got injured. The Lakers were on their way to a relatively high seed, but dropped off a cliff once the injury happened.
Lebron quit on the team once he knew there was no chance of the playoffs - quit lying to yourself. "The first time" yeah he left again because he knew LA was going to get AD or another elite player the following season. Lebron has played with more top talent than anyone we have ever seen probably over a full career. You cannot jump ship 3x and be the greatest. No sir
 

54T

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Wilt never gets enough credit in these “greatest” discussions, IMO. He did things that were never done before, and haven’t been done since. 100 points in a game, 50 rebounds in a game, averaging 50 ppg for an entire season. And did it all while going to bed with 20,000 women ( his estimate). I mean, holy crap.
 

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