Just gonna leave this here.......
- Thread starter TheBeav815
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i hear some of what hes saying, but are mizzou enrollment figures the norm or an outlier? im guessing theyre outpacing other schools. hes not seeing the forest for the trees...
that being said, i know everyone is shitting their collective pants about what sanders says about free college tuition, but my ass and many others benefitted when my state picked up more of the tab than they do today...seemed to have kept tuition/books inflation down, too.
that being said, i know everyone is shitting their collective pants about what sanders says about free college tuition, but my ass and many others benefitted when my state picked up more of the tab than they do today...seemed to have kept tuition/books inflation down, too.
Don't fret, the Bern & Hiltz promised free education & health care!
Reminds of a WW I song:
Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,
And smile, smile, smile,
While you've a lucifer to light your fag,
Smile, boys, that's the style.
What's the use of worrying?
It never was worth while, so
Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,
And smile, smile, smile.
Ps..the Judge nailed it:
Reminds of a WW I song:
Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,
And smile, smile, smile,
While you've a lucifer to light your fag,
Smile, boys, that's the style.
What's the use of worrying?
It never was worth while, so
Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,
And smile, smile, smile.
Ps..the Judge nailed it:
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Hmm, let's take a little gander at the cost of a college education over time (hopefully the pic is big enough).
And since the author of the article liked using FRED for numbers, lets look at real median household income over time (sorry can't link the pic from FRED). So 1985 household income about $50K, 2014 household income about $54K. Not a whole lot here that is hard to figure out.
And since the author of the article liked using FRED for numbers, lets look at real median household income over time (sorry can't link the pic from FRED). So 1985 household income about $50K, 2014 household income about $54K. Not a whole lot here that is hard to figure out.
The reason the cost of college outpaced inflation so much was precisely because the state got in the business of helping everyone pay for it. Bernie's plan would essentially destroy all but the most elite private universities, while giving the state more and more control over what is taught in public universities. While people are entitled to their opinions about the GI Bill (which democratized college education) and government backed student loans, these are two of the primary contributors to the current price of a degree.
Hmm, let's take a little gander at the cost of a college education over time (hopefully the pic is big enough).
And since the author of the article liked using FRED for numbers, lets look at real median household income over time (sorry can't link the pic from FRED). So 1985 household income about $50K, 2014 household income about $54K. Not a whole lot here that is hard to figure out.
This. Right here. A lot of people want to name-call the recent generations of college kids and they have no idea about this chart. Sure, you bootstrapped yourself through college and that's great...but your cost was 1/3 what it is now!
Something has to be done about the cost of college. I'd be curious to see what CC enrollments look like.
So your saying...
also known as: If you like your college, you can keep your college ;-)
Education is useless without the Bible. The Bible was America’s basic text book in all fields. God’s Word, contained in the Bible, has furnished all necessary rules to direct our conduct.
– Noah Webster
– Noah Webster
There is a flip side to that argument though. Sure, government assistance to help pay for college went up but why did that force universities or other schools to take advantage of that assistance to raise the costs way beyond what was needed. It was simply GREED on their part. They decided to raise tuition and fees so they could pocket the money instead of it benefitting students. Why is it that government always gets bashed but big business and other organizations that take advantage of gov't programs to the detriment of those intended to benefit are never called out for their actions?
There's quite a bit to unpack in your post. Colleges and Universities (many of which are government bodies, by the way) respond to the same sorts of supply and demand incentives as any other institution. As the government demonstrated that they were going to pump oceans of money into college education, of course colleges were going to try to gobble it all up. If Mothmonsterman University doesn't increase its tuition in order to fund fancy new student centers, first class student housing and the most up to date science labs they will lose students to competitors who do, because students aren't considering the costs of college, they want the most prestigious degree they can get from the school that provides them with the nicest, cushiest experience. Add to this that pressure to create armies of new administrators in order to secure more funding, make sure that the precious snowflakes don't encounter ideas that challenge their worldview, and give older faculty cushy do nothing jobs on worse than useless committees; and the upward pressures continue.
Then there's the idea that everyone should go to college, which is utter nonsense. Most careers shouldn't require a bachelor's degree but kids are fed this crap about how a person with a degree will make so much more money over their lifetime (this typically reverses cause and effect). This, in turn feeds the ridiculous idea that the Humanities are worthless, because "what kind of job can you get with a History degree?" which is an assault on Western Civilization itself. In a more rational world, people would go to college to train for very specific professions, or for cultivating their intellects, not because they are told they have to.
As for why government gets blamed, it's because it creates the perverse incentives for universities, corporations and individuals to do all sorts of counterproductive things. Furthermore, the programs that benefit universities or corporations were mainly intended to do so. The more large institutions are beholden to the state, the easier they are to control.
I'm a Bernie supporter, but I've always wondered what role sports play in making college free in America. Sure, other countries are able to pull it off, but they don't need 100's of millions propping up unprofitable sports teams like we do here. It's curious what part that will play in determining the feasibility of free college in America.
There's no such thing as free. We will pay for it our whole lives. Cost will go up because colleges will increase prices and govt gets to keep a cut for their noble service. A big problem is worthless classes and also accreditation. Colleges spend millions of dollars a year on that alone. That money has to come from somewhere. This also leads to less competition in the marketplace for those looking to further their education.
There's a reason colleges are liberal. They are salivating over the thought of bernies plan coming true someday.
I also seem to notice that no candidates are talking about cutting government pensions down to only benefitting military in order to help the college kids out. One of the most costly things in our budget. Oh we need to help these poor college students, but don't you dare take from us! Hypocrites.
There's a reason colleges are liberal. They are salivating over the thought of bernies plan coming true someday.
I also seem to notice that no candidates are talking about cutting government pensions down to only benefitting military in order to help the college kids out. One of the most costly things in our budget. Oh we need to help these poor college students, but don't you dare take from us! Hypocrites.
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Change the word "Bible" to "Quran" and "America" to "Middle East" and notice how that sounds like something you would think only a terrorist would say.
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I don't care how u twist it or who u blame. As a parent with kids in college it's depressing. It's sad to know that they will leave college with more debt than my first house cost me. I have three more to go and I can't imagine how bad it will be for them.
Something has to change. These kids are our nations future and our bs political beliefs and capitalist ideals have set them back financially farther than any other generation in American history.
Why?
Something has to change. These kids are our nations future and our bs political beliefs and capitalist ideals have set them back financially farther than any other generation in American history.
Why?
Just curious as to why you this capitalist ideals have set our nation back financially?
There is nothing capitalist about how and why college prices are soaring.
And yes prices are awful.
.....yes there is. Schools got themselves into an arms race to have the nicest dorms, best rec, tastiest cafeteria, etc. for the sake of attracting more customers (aka students) than neighboring schools.
Those of us who went to NU, just compare your dorm experience to the dorms they have now. I lived in Harper in a single room that was probably about 11x11 and it was two desks, two beds, two closets. Communal bathrooms where like 5 of the 8 showers were good enough to use. Now they have suite-style dorms all over the place, everyone has their own bedroom, no more than 4 people share a bathroom, they have a common living room, a full kitchen, the lounges are brand new with flatscreens, etc. You used to have to move off campus and rent an apartment for that.
My time at NU was full of constant renovations and new construction to get the latest and greatest facilities. It's just like it's gotten with football. "Oh, your weight room is 3 years old...yeah I'm not committing here...."
The bigger issue with free college is that the countries that do it, like Germany, have a much smaller percentage of the population that is accepted to college. Only about 30% of the Americans that go to college would accepted under 'the German model.'
So either the US bites off a ridiculously bigger portion or that about 70% of potential students are denied. So that leaves you with a really unrealistic tab to pay or even larger separation of classes. Who do you think can afford tutoring and resume boosting activities to make them 'college worthy?' Neither seem like better options than the current system to me.
My first semester at NU, tuition was $32.50 per credit in 1982.. Adjusted for inflation, that would equal $79.79 in 2016. Presently, the tuition at NU is $219.75, nearly triple the rate of inflation. In order to get at the why of this, one would need a bit of info like change in faculty and administrator salaries compared to inflation, the amount of bonded debt (although I suspect this is serviced by fees), and the change in direct state support compared to inflation.
I think you might find the following: faculty and staff salaries are near the rate of inflation, administrative salaries have outpaced inflation (and their number has increased relative to faculty and staff), and the level of state support has decreased by perhaps half.
I think you might find the following: faculty and staff salaries are near the rate of inflation, administrative salaries have outpaced inflation (and their number has increased relative to faculty and staff), and the level of state support has decreased by perhaps half.
This depends on your definition of "Capitalism". The way most defenders of Capitalism define it is as a (relatively) free market where property rights are respected and people consensually interact with one another. Institutions chasing resources is just as common under any other socioeconomic arrangement as it is under Capitalism (the core attributes of human nature aren't altered). The mere fact that the state has inserted itself so heavily into the funding of college educations means that, like housing and healthcare, higher ed isn't an example of Capitalism, but some sort of weird hampered market abstraction. If it were Capitalist, it would be more like the haircut industry, quality would gradually improve and the price would more or less mirror general inflation.
Reduce and or remove the govt money (free) and the cost would slow and likely turn back toward actual levels of cost. It's less affordable because it is so subsidized the schools now the fighting for money isn't as tough. Loans leave students with debt that is crushing.
Go community college. Do pay as you go. Work your butt off for scholarships and grants. Those won't make college free for all but will get those who go more committed and be able to stay and finish without the crushing debt.
Go community college. Do pay as you go. Work your butt off for scholarships and grants. Those won't make college free for all but will get those who go more committed and be able to stay and finish without the crushing debt.
Just goes to show how much different that Reagan was than the current GOP. The guy they idolize was successful for many reasons, including taking positions that would be scorned in today's GOP.
I'll rephrase that to Today's reality of capitalism. Which has become "I got to get all I can at the cost of I don't care who." It's the reason why 60,000 factories have shut down and moved over seas for cheaper slave like wages since 2001. Why the move? Greater profits. Profits in the Billions instead of Millions etc... . I know its easy to blame the government but the reality is having a chinamen make a product for 65 cents an hour is a lot more appetizing for a company owner then having to pay an American even minimum wage.
Im not talking about today's small business owner im talking about the large corporations who are truly reaping the benefits of capitalism.
Now who was it that said all that was going to happen if NAFTA got passed? What was his name again????OH YEAH!! Ross Perot!!! Who was promptly dismissed as a crackpot. So many dimwits living in this country that cannot grasp this stuff, just as long as they get their free phone, the economy is just fine.
A lot of that difference in wage labor has to do with China's currency valuation. They keep it artificially low, and it's been a problem for a long time.
As to the businesses being evil etc.. some might be that way, but what happens is competitor A shifts manufacturing, then competitor B does it, then competitor C does, and you are then forced to do it too if you want to stay in business.
They need to bring back some tariffs and kill some of the free trade stuff when the trading country is not valuing their currency correctly.
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