So if we had some great four stars and some very mediocre three stars, someone writing a post touting our great four star recruits should be called out for trolling because she didn't mention the three stars that weren't panning out? Got it.
Impact of Riley's 4 star players thus far...
- Thread starter Toms Wife
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Some of you guys buy in way too much about "Jims and Joes over X's and O's" . Someone forgot to tell Wisconsin they should suck.
Honest question, have any of you ever played on a team that had all the talent in the world but couldnt win?
OR vice-versa, played on a team that had zero super stars but won?
I sure have but maybe its me
Honest question, have any of you ever played on a team that had all the talent in the world but couldnt win?
OR vice-versa, played on a team that had zero super stars but won?
I sure have but maybe its me
Which begs the question, is it recruiting or coaching that is the real issue? I say coaching.
I have yet to bring up Bo in this thread. So don't attempt to put words in my mouth.
You're losing hard in this thread and you know it.
The roster management was terrible under Bo. In that aspect, Riley has done a nice job in getting a much better network in place. Tom, this is a ridiculous post. Riley hasn't gotten it done here because of results on the field, not recruiting.
And I am one of those that have jumped off of the Riley train. Not sure what this post accomplishes for you anyway.
And I am one of those that have jumped off of the Riley train. Not sure what this post accomplishes for you anyway.
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You are not following. The guy who recruited the upperclassmen who are starting at a higher rate than Wisky or OSU was Bo Pelini. If our young recruits were so good, they would be starting at a higher rate than OSU or Wisky.
There is no "me" winning or losing. You are free to believe whatever you want no matter what the facts say.
No, only you will be called out for trolling because that's what you do and everyone knows it. Don't act surprised.
If everything being equal in how we have been recruiting (number of 3* / 4* recruits, the number of recruits who have made an impact, etc).... If a poster were super positive (like how you're super negative) on the coaches and their entire recruiting attempts by bringing up only 4-stars, but failed to bring up the failing 3 stars then it wouldn't unnecessary to question said poster. Especially when that poster says; "the facts don't match the narrative." when they themselves are leaving out some facts.
Did you expect anything less from HIM
When posters have said that Riley's recruiting has been better than Bo's, in your mind that means every single one of Riley's recruits (though on true sophomores / freshman at this point) should be starting on this team. If they're not, in your mind, Riley has failed at recruiting.
Please list all of the P5 schools where this is true. You've listed two.
It's because that is who we have played and are chasing. I could have used Illinois who has a ton of true freshmen playing. But we aren't trying to be like Illinois.
No, someone with an Agenda, who says Riley isn’t a good recruiter, and uses as proof a the number of 4 star busts or non contributors but ignores the 3 star contributors, that’s the one who should be called out.
You can’t say Riley sucks at recruiting and ignore more than half of his recruits. That’s agenda driven.
I'd say we are pretty much arguing about rounding error when comparing Riley and Pelini recruits. Some nice football players in each group. Bo had some difference makers over the years, but too many holes in the roster at the end of his tenure. Given that Riley has only had two classes that are solely his, the value of comparing is questionable.
Chances are Riley will not get a multi-year cycle to have a full team of his recruits. The hybrid class of 2015 are RS sophomores and juniors. I count 15 of the 22 starters as Pelini recruits. Regardless, the talent that we have on the roster now is comparable to the talent of Nine Win Pelini. The 2017 team has not consistently played to the level of its talent. Maybe that changes in the latter half of the season. But maybe not.
Chances are Riley will not get a multi-year cycle to have a full team of his recruits. The hybrid class of 2015 are RS sophomores and juniors. I count 15 of the 22 starters as Pelini recruits. Regardless, the talent that we have on the roster now is comparable to the talent of Nine Win Pelini. The 2017 team has not consistently played to the level of its talent. Maybe that changes in the latter half of the season. But maybe not.
Conversely, you can't highlight Riley as a really good recruiter when his highest rated recruits haven't shown us a whole lot.
He's pretty much a wash with Bo.
There's more to recruiting than who you sign (star-wise) and who contributes their first 2 years.
Bo actually recruited good RBs, WRs and DBs. We ended up finding out that Bo did not recruit QB's (other than Martinez), OL or DL very well. In the beginning it was very solid, and even towards the middle/end it looked like Bo recruited good Dlinemen, but then it all fell apart and depth was crap. Oline wasn't bad in the beginning either, but
As of now, that is why I think Riley is a really good recruiter because we are building depth at all positions and you have to take that into consideration. Maybe Riley's classes fall apart or never contribute and become busts (like our 2011 class) and I'm wrong about Riley's recruiting.
Bo actually recruited good RBs, WRs and DBs. We ended up finding out that Bo did not recruit QB's (other than Martinez), OL or DL very well. In the beginning it was very solid, and even towards the middle/end it looked like Bo recruited good Dlinemen, but then it all fell apart and depth was crap. Oline wasn't bad in the beginning either, but
As of now, that is why I think Riley is a really good recruiter because we are building depth at all positions and you have to take that into consideration. Maybe Riley's classes fall apart or never contribute and become busts (like our 2011 class) and I'm wrong about Riley's recruiting.
So it’s fair to judge recruiting according to four star recruits only… Got it.
The top 20 teams disagree with you. As do the playoffs and NC teams. Numbers don’t lie.
Is this a serious post about Lavonte David being a backup to Sean Fisher?!
Sean Fischer was at best a part-time starter until his senior year in 2012.
Lavonte David was Nebraska’s leading tackler in both 2010 (152) and 2011 (133) and finished his career as Nebraska’s 4th leading all-time tackler with 285 tackles in only two years. Sean Fisher is not credited with a single tackle in 2010 and 24 tackles in 2011. Lavonte David started 14 games in 2010 and 13 games in 2011.
Sean Fisher did not start a single game in 2010 and started 4 games in 2011 at a linebacker position other than the one that Lavonte started at.
Lavonte David was first team All-Big 12 and first team All-American in 2010 and first team All-Big 10 and first team All-American in 2011.
In 2012, when Sean Fisher started 5 games and had 48 total tackles at Nebraska, Lavonte David was named to the All-Rookie team in the NFL and lead his team in tackles with 139.
Lavonte David was a backup until Sean Fisher got hurt?!
Sorry, this was a reply to a coachDubs post earlier in this thread stating that Lavonte David was a backup until Fisher was injured.
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Several years ago NU was on par in terms of talent with the likes of tOSU and Ped St. Those programs went up and NU experienced a slight downward trajectory. The program has a ways to go to get to parity with the top of the league. And that does not take into account getting players developed to be able to fully take advantage of their talent. Frankly, it is difficult to determine the difference between basic football talent and being "coached up".
Sorry, this was supposed to be a reply to a coachDubs post earlier in this thread.
Do you have the numbers on that? I'd be curious to see them. I could do the research, which I am too lazy to do, so I am not asking you to do it.
I'm just curious, I would like to see the lists of players and their offers, I don't really follow recruiting.
But, of course, offers are self reported so I am not sure it's verifiable unless somebody is gonna look into visits taken which would be more telling.
I saw it in another thread, when I have a chance I will cut and paste it. May take me a bit...
Didn't Bo leave us with a bunch of 4 star offensive linemen and two NFL Defensive linemen?
Not fact checked, but this is what I saw...
Roberts - OKLA, Clemson, PSU
Alexander - Mich, Miami, ND, Wiscy
Thomas - Alabama, FSU, Mich
Daniels - Mich, FLA, USC
Dismuke - LSU, Mich, Wiscy
Butler - Clemson, Mich, Miami
Jefferson - OKLA, Miami, TCU
D. Thomas - Mich, a&m, Arkansas
Raridon - OKLA, Wiscy, Stanford
Jaimes - Texas, TCU, Baylor
Rafdal - Auburn, Louisville, Maryland
Lindsey - Bama, OSU, PSU, Mich
Miles - LSU, MSU, BC
Gebbia - Bama, Miami, Washington
Roberts - OKLA, Clemson, PSU
Alexander - Mich, Miami, ND, Wiscy
Thomas - Alabama, FSU, Mich
Daniels - Mich, FLA, USC
Dismuke - LSU, Mich, Wiscy
Butler - Clemson, Mich, Miami
Jefferson - OKLA, Miami, TCU
D. Thomas - Mich, a&m, Arkansas
Raridon - OKLA, Wiscy, Stanford
Jaimes - Texas, TCU, Baylor
Rafdal - Auburn, Louisville, Maryland
Lindsey - Bama, OSU, PSU, Mich
Miles - LSU, MSU, BC
Gebbia - Bama, Miami, Washington
You're not understanding the point the OP is trying to get across. This same exact argument of the amount of 4 star busts was used against Bo to say he had bad recruiting classes. Yes, Bo had a lot of 4 star busts, but he also had some very good 3 star players who earned playing time above the 4 star guys. It's funny that the same posters bashing Bo on the number of 4 star busts are now defending Riley for the same thing.
This is the exact same agenda driven argument used against Bo for much of his time here.
Riley's 4-stars are true sophomores and most (all?) are still in the program. There is a difference between the two.
Now you could end up being correct if Riley's 4-stars don't pan out, but we won't know for sure for 2-3 more years.
I agree it isn't his problem.
I've said he does a good job getting people to look here. I think he has found good recruiting assistants. I think he and his recruiting guy (forget his name) are really selling NU well. I think he loves NU. He's obviously better than Pelini.
But as mentioned above, Pelini shouldn't be the benchmark. Also, the recruiting results just aren't there, and there have been highly ranked kids who haven't made it here. He will never win enough to have top 15 classes.
So, while recruiting isn't his problem, it also is not a reason to keep him around as some are saying. That makes zero sense to me.
I really think Pelini is still affecting people and blinding them from the truth, just as Callahan did to all the "Pelini 9 wins!" People.
It doesn't have to be Pelini.
And it doesn't have to be Riley.
Did you read these articles? Fisher broke his leg in August during Fall camp before a game was played in 2010. There are no depth charts during Fall camp, that is when depth charts are developed. Lavonte David started every game in 2010 and 2011. He was never a backup. You cannot be a backup until the games are played.
With Mike Riley at the helm - sometimes you just do know. When you see Matt Campbell’s player development in year 2 at ISU versus year 3 of Riley and his perennial history, sometimes you just know.
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