Hammer is dropped on the Gophers

[Pennsyhusker]

Ah the she was asking for it defense.

I think I will let it play out before making controversial and uninformed opinions on what might have happened and who might have said no and might have been drunk.

And as for my opinions being "uninformed"... Yes, you are right, I do not know the particular facts of this case. It may turn out that these guys are simple scum bags who got what they deserved. But my opinions on the topic of how to deal with accusations of sexual assault at college campus parties are certainly not uninformed. I have years of experience in dealing with that. And it is just a plain fact, whether you like it or not, that college administrators are completely under the boot of a noxious PC ideology and that ideology fuels all kinds of nasty results for young men. The Duke Lacrosse team is a case in point.

I have seen young men reduced to shaking tears when their lives are ruined by spurious allegations. I have also seen young women devastated by sexual assaults. It is a very serious situation where young lives are at stake. On both sides. But all too often decisions are made for ideological reasons and not the facts.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

Whatever dude. The second line of your post was "it's not a crime if she consented" followed by a detailed outline on how to blame the female for being raped. Then a small blurb about if it's true.

i stand by my opinion. Feel free to disagree as vehemently as you want.

Ttfn.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Whatever dude. The second line of your post was "it's not a crime if she consented" followed by a detailed outline on how to blame the female for being raped. Then a small blurb about if it's true.

i stand by my opinion. Feel free to disagree as whemently as you want.

Ttfn.

She was not raped if she consented. That is a fact. That is most likely why the police did not bring charges. And my "detailed outline"was about how being drunk at a party with other drunk people is not a solid basis for bringing accusations of rape unless you were passed out or said no. If you were drunk and said yes to sex with other drunk people you cannot then reasonably bring charges of sexual assault.

I don't care if you want to stand by your opinion. If you think a woman who consents to sex can still claim rape then your opinion is based on some legal standard I am not familiar with. When I sat in on cases like this I often believed, personally, that the young men in question were turds who took advantage of some poor young girl. But I still had to render judgements based on the facts before me. And the law is quite clear, both criminal law and most university ethical codes of student conduct: if you consent to sex while drunk you might be in some real sense a victim of men taking advantage of you. But, whether we like it or not, you cannot sustain a rape charge if you said yes.

But maybe she did NOT consent. That is the part we do not know. And maybe the police did not bring charges simply because there were no witnesses and it was her word against their's. In that case the University does have an obligation to look into it further, beyond the legal burden of proof, to see what the preponderance of evidence is. And they may have done that in this case. We may find out she did say no and they believed her. In that case the suspensions are probably justified.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Ok. Truce. I like your posts Tuco and do not want to pick a fight. I (obviously) have strong feelings about these kinds of cases based on some rather traumatic episodes I had to deal with where young lives, both male and female, were ruined. And my University's administration usually just made matters worse and really mucked things up for us when we were just trying to be fair to everyone. So maybe I am just a little too sensitive about not taking the word of University administrators (like at Minnesota) when things like this happen. Maybe I am overreacting.
Have a nice day

 

[newAD]

Your assumption is that the only reason to suspend them is for a crime they committed, may not have been a crime but may have been major ethics violations or team rules, etc. NU has sent several guys packing for "Team Rules" violations and that is where the University is coming and down while indicating again last night after the players action and statement that their decision to suspend the players was consistent with University policy. Thos policies have been updated and hardened greatly in the last year, I live in the Twin Cities and UofM has an absolutely horrible track record for preventing or prosecuting alleged sexual assaults and even worse actual rapes on campus. Until a few months ago when they finally got a conviction they had 1,000 cases of alleged sexual assault over the last 5 years and ZERO convictions. When they finally got the conviction the local media finally uncovered the problem in it's full and ugly "glory" and the pressure is now on UM admin and athletic staff as several allegations pointed at athletes, to make drastic changes and no tolerance policies are now in place. You also need to remember that the previous AD was fired for sexeual harrassment so the new AD has no wiggle room when it comes to this type of activity. And they are strongly hinting that everyone would be appalled if they new what he U's investigation found but that due to privacy laws and policies they can't tell us what they found.

And common guys lets be real here lining up to have sex with a drunk coed is just plain wrong whether she is resisting or not.

No I'm not assuming that. I've been involved in dozens of administrative investigations. I'm probably more qualified to conduct one than anyone the U of Minn has doing them. There's legal and there's administrative/internal or whatever you want to call it. Been there done that on both sides.

How does a University prevent sexual assaults?

1000 cases? Were those all forced penetration type cases, or were the majority of them alleged groping/touching cases? Forced/Unwelcome penetration cases are hard enough to prove. Groping/touching cases, even harder. He touched me! No I didn't! Any witnesses? Any video? As to a conviction for the penetration cases in a large amount of cases it comes down to one person's word vs the other and medical evidence that indicates yes, there was sexual contact, but no, it can't be prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was forced, unwelcome, etc, etc.

Your reasons as to why the U of M has to take this seriously, are also reasons they could be over reacting, and fearing the upcoming Title XIIII investigation.

Oh, and I take sexual assault VERY seriously. I worked overnights at a time that we had a serial burglar-rapist running around. One night I was specifically patrolling waiting for him to strike. I was just blocks away when he got his last victim. I was first on the scene and saw a woman who had just been forcibly raped and had the $#*% beat out of her. That sticks with you. She was a very strong woman mentally and emotionally, and because of that, the sick bastard is in prison.

I've also responded to hundreds of cases at hospitals where a person claims to be a sexual assault victim. So they are not even at the scene of the alleged assault, and time has passed, and the suspect may or may not be at the location of the alleged assault. There's a lot of reasons prosecution and conviction rates for those cases are low.

It's quite possible we'd all be appalled by some of these guys behavior if your last sentence is true. You say guys lining up to take advantage of a drunk co-ed is wrong. I'd agree. If that is true, I'm under the belief that if that it was four of them, as I'm under the impression that four were suspects that were investigated but not charged. I'm trying to figure out how it got to 10? Are you telling me it was ten guys waiting around to take turns? I'm not saying that isn't possible, but seems pretty far fetched. I can't even imagine how many times in college I was at some house/apartment where someone was having sex in another part of the room. Would that make me responsible for their actions?

 

[Pennsyhusker]

No I'm not assuming that. I've been involved in dozens of administrative investigations. I'm probably more qualified to conduct one than anyone the U of Minn has doing them. There's legal and there's administrative/internal or whatever you want to call it. Been there done that on both sides.

How does a University prevent sexual assaults?

1000 cases? Were those all forced penetration type cases, or were the majority of them alleged groping/touching cases? Forced/Unwelcome penetration cases are hard enough to prove. Groping/touching cases, even harder. He touched me! No I didn't! Any witnesses? Any video? As to a conviction for the penetration cases in a large amount of cases it comes down to one person's word vs the other and medical evidence that indicates yes, there was sexual contact, but no, it can't be prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was forced, unwelcome, etc, etc.

Your reasons as to why the U of M has to take this seriously, are also reasons they could be over reacting, and fearing the upcoming Title XIIII investigation.

Oh, and I take sexual assault VERY seriously. I worked overnights at a time that we had a serial burglar-rapist running around. One night I was specifically patrolling waiting for him to strike. I was just blocks away when he got his last victim. I was first on the scene and saw a woman who had just been forcibly raped and had the $#*% beat out of her. That sticks with you. She was a very strong woman mentally and emotionally, and because of that, the sick bastard is in prison.

I've also responded to hundreds of cases at hospitals where a person claims to be a sexual assault victim. So they are not even at the scene of the alleged assault, and time has passed, and the suspect may or may not be at the location of the alleged assault. There's a lot of reasons prosecution and conviction rates for those cases are low.

It's quite possible we'd all be appalled by some of these guys behavior if your last sentence is true. You say guys lining up to take advantage of a drunk co-ed is wrong. I'd agree. If that is true, I'm under the belief that if that it was four of them, as I'm under the impression that four were suspects that were investigated but not charged. I'm trying to figure out how it got to 10? Are you telling me it was ten guys waiting around to take turns? I'm not saying that isn't possible, but seems pretty far fetched. I can't even imagine how many times in college I was at some house/apartment where someone was having sex in another part of the room. Would that make me responsible for their actions?

This. Very well said. These are tough cases.

 

[Truehuskerfan]

I'm not going to get into an argument about this because I(or really anybody else) don't know the facts here, however there are plenty of stories about cases where students(not necessarily athletes) have had their academic careers and reputations ruined by unjust charges and proceedings from these university boards(which are rightfully classified as "kangaroo courts"). So it would not surprise me if this was such a situation. I would also note that the university administration doesn't seem to be handling this too well. They said that Tracy Claeys was involved in the decision to suspend the players, something which the players say they don't believe and while he has not publicly denied it, he is supporting the players in their boycott-which would be rather odd if he was involved in the disciplinary decision. He also may not want to directly deny that since his job status has been considered precarious ever since the beginning of the year since he was essentially an interim coach that was given the permanent job as a way to sort of audition for the job long term. But if they said he was involved in the disciplinary decision and it comes out that he wasn't, then the administration flat-out lied which would call into question everything else they are doing to handle this.

 

[redwine65]

Please do not put words into my mouth. It is most definitely NOT the "she was asking for it" defense. It was a comment about how damn difficult it is to adjudicate culpable liability, criminal or otherwise, in these situations. I was simply shedding light, based on my years of experience in dealing with these cases, on why it is not as black and white as some people think, just because she was drunk and a bunch of guys had sex with her. Like it or not, the "I was drunk and even though I said yes to sex I did not mean it" argument is equally flawed as a basis for getting people arrested or kicked out of school. It is a very messy situation when you mix booze and young people at a college party and shit goes down. That is my point.

And as for waiting until all the facts are known... I agree. As I explicitly stated at the end of my post if you cared to really read it. I posted what I posted in order to point out that in a PC fueled and politically charged campus ideological environment these days, there is often a rush to judgment when it comes to dealing with young men. I am NOT saying these guys are innocent nor am I saying she deserved it. I am merely saying that just because she made accusations it doesn't necessarily mean they have merit.

the guilty party should pay heavy fines for using tax payer money for lawyers and judges.

 

[timnsun]

the guilty party should pay heavy fines for using tax payer money for lawyers and judges.

Sure they should, but Pennsy has been asking the question, "How do you prove who the guilty party is?" That's a good question...

 

[Nit777]

Duke lacrosse tought us not to judge to quickly.

Why have so many judged Penn State so quickly?

Please name one fact proven by any sort of due process other than Sandusky conviction.

Media is as right here as they were with Duke Lacrosse and the recent pres election, which means pretty much wrong from top to bottom.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Sure they should, but Pennsy has been asking the question, "How do you prove who the guilty party is?" That's a good question...

Thank you. That is really all I am saying. You cannot just take things at face value. Believe it or not, young women do, in fact, sometimes make false accusations. I saw that many times. So you have to deal with the facts before you and not react emotionally. And usually these cases are very, very sad for all involved because it is almost impossible to determine in the vast majority of cases who the guilty parties are and what, exactly, they are guilty of.

Look, rape is real. And it DOES happen all too often on our campuses. I do have sympathy for the female victims of sexual abuse because the burden of proof is always on them to prove their case because in this country the accused are innocent until proven guilty. But what do they have to do to "prove" their case? Well, they need to establish some kind of evidence that there was in fact sexual intercourse. That would entail getting witnesses (not always easy) and/or getting medical evidence. But if a condom was used that is also not always easy. If it was a violent rape you may find evidence of vaginal trauma. But that requires that a young woman, often still drunk and now traumatized, find her way to an emergency room. Most don't, sadly. You then need to establish evidence, that even if there was sex, that it was not consensual. That is, absent a direct witness to you saying "NO", the really hard part. Finally, if you want to say you were extremely drunk to the point of being almost incapacitated, you once again need to have a trip to the emergency room to get a blood test. Hard to do if you are that drunk unless you have good friends who are also not drunk to drive you there or call a cab.

So in reality, absent some good eye witnesses who are willing to testify, it is really, really hard to adjudicate these cases. And usually what happens, given how hard it is for the young women to make their case, is that it devolves into her word against his or theirs. And a lot of young women, sadly, know that therefore nothing will come of it so they just don't bring the charges at all.

 

[Nebraska Fan]

Please do not put words into my mouth. It is most definitely NOT the "she was asking for it" defense. It was a comment about how damn difficult it is to adjudicate culpable liability, criminal or otherwise, in these situations. I was simply shedding light, based on my years of experience in dealing with these cases, on why it is not as black and white as some people think, just because she was drunk and a bunch of guys had sex with her. Like it or not, the "I was drunk and even though I said yes to sex I did not mean it" argument is equally flawed as a basis for getting people arrested or kicked out of school. It is a very messy situation when you mix booze and young people at a college party and shit goes down. That is my point.

And as for waiting until all the facts are known... I agree. As I explicitly stated at the end of my post if you cared to really read it. I posted what I posted in order to point out that in a PC fueled and politically charged campus ideological environment these days, there is often a rush to judgment when it comes to dealing with young men. I am NOT saying these guys are innocent nor am I saying she deserved it. I am merely saying that just because she made accusations it doesn't necessarily mean they have merit.

all the facts .... will never be known by design.

 

[GBRhuskers]

from antoine winfield sr. :

Ask for a release, get it granted then transfer to Nebraska. I wish we went after him last year, he had a pretty good season for Minnesota as a true freshmen.

 

[oldjar07]

Ah the she was asking for it defense.

I think I will let it play out before making controversial and uninformed opinions on what might have happened and who might have said no and might have been drunk.

If all else fails, pull out the strawman argument. In this case she was literally asking for it, so she was giving consent. Having consent is not a defense? I don't even know how people can have sex anymore as not even consent is a defense against sexual assault.

 

[kikdakan]

according to this tweet, gophers expected to play; really, if your a gopher fan, how could you care?

 

[dockentwo]

Whatever dude. The second line of your post was "it's not a crime if she consented" followed by a detailed outline on how to blame the female for being raped. Then a small blurb about if it's true.

i stand by my opinion. Feel free to disagree as vehemently as you want.

Ttfn.

I personally have talked to women who were drugged or bought extra drinks when they had been served heavy pours. Words can be spoken or questions asked that get a nod - they are not mentally there. When they find out what happened to them; they may just hide - or police advise as to chances of a good outcome - meaning do you want to be in the press and have them still walk ? the thing about being gang raped; they have more witnesses, these are rapist, what do you think they will say?

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

If all else fails, pull out the strawman argument. In this case she was literally asking for it, so she was giving consent. Having consent is not a defense? I don't even know how people can have sex anymore as not even consent is a defense against sexual assault.

Were you there? What number in line were you?

 

[huskerfan1414]

Our society is teaching kids that its ok to have as much sex as you want as long as its "safe". The pc crowd shuns religious teachings of abstinence and quite frankly we need to be teaching kids that instead of how to use condoms and birth control...honestly this is what you get. Sounds like she agreed to bang two guys and two more took a turn. Its just horrible all the way around. Sex is not consequence free, ever. Im not saying she asked ro be assaulted but we should absolutely be teaching guys and gals to avoid these situations all together. Its disgusting to me that people will have consensual sex with multiple people at a party when others are there, anyway. We meed to stop treating young people like wild animals who cant comtrol themselves and start teaching abstinence or at least more respect for sex. Its not something you do just for fun, that de values it and we wonder why we have such an immoral society. I know even if we teach it different sex will still obviously happen but hopefully people will learn to have more respect for themselves and not treat their and others bodies as pieces of meat.
I know my opinion wont be popular and ill be seen as lame but honestly its getting out of hand and our young people have zero respect for sex and i believe we are seeing the results of that mentality.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

I personally have talked to women who were drugged or bought extra drinks when they had been served heavy pours. Words can be spoken or questions asked that get a nod - they are not mentally there. When they find out what happened to them; they may just hide - or police advise as to chances of a good outcome - meaning do you want to be in the press and have them still walk ? the thing about being gang raped; they have more witnesses, these are rapist, what do you think they will say?

I once had a case before my committee where the young woman was given a sedative drug in her drink and then was raped. Fortunately she had a friend with her at the party who found her nude on a bed and passed out. She took her to a hospital where blood tests proved she was drugged. Her rapist was arrested. But that is the difficult thing... proving that you were drugged by getting a blood test in time. Otherwise the asshole(s) walk.

 

[scarletred]

What blows me away about this, what kind of women with any respect for hereself has sex with 10 men and doesn't blink twice till after the fact..

Obvious she had way too much to drink and wasn't in the right frame of mind...

The B1G should just say if you do not participate in the Holoiday bowl your conference bowl allotment will not be granted to the university.

 

[huskerfan1414]

What blows me away about this, what kind of women with any respect for hereself has sex with 10 men and doesn't blink twice till after the fact..

Obvious she had way too much to drink and wasn't in the right frame of mind...

The B1G should just say if you do not participate in the Holoiday bowl your conference bowl allotment will not be granted to the university.

From what i gather she agreed to have sex with two and two more jumped in. The others didnt participate. But they were there. Thats why they are mad they were suspended.
Awful to me that three people would want to have sex together in the first place, especially with multiple people around.
Oh but kids will be kids and cant control themselves, right. Its just fun and games.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

What blows me away about this, what kind of women with any respect for hereself has sex with 10 men and doesn't blink twice till after the fact..

Obvious she had way too much to drink and wasn't in the right frame of mind...

The B1G should just say if you do not participate in the Holoiday bowl your conference bowl allotment will not be granted to the university.

Yes but even if she was drunk there still might be a case against the guys involved. If she was extremely, seriously drunk and clearly exhibiting signs of being in that state, AND the men involved were relatively sober, then a University is within its rights to invoke its code of student conduct to expel them, even if they cannot be legally charged with rape.

Man, I am glad I don't do those decisions anymore. I am telling you it is always a freaking mess of misinformation, witness vs. counter witness, he said-she said, campus politics, vulnerable kids vs. predator kids... etc... It can be a real shit fest. Let's hope the University of Minnesota made the right call here

 

[scarletred]

From what i gather she agreed to have sex with two and two more jumped in. The others didnt participate. But they were there. Thats why they are mad they were suspended.
Awful to me that three people would want to have sex together in the first place, especially with multiple people around.
Oh but kids will be kids and cant control themselves, right. Its just fun and games.

Agreed, they were thinking with the wrong head so to speak...

Comes down to morals and some of the younger generation in this instance didn't have any.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

From what i gather she agreed to have sex with two and two more jumped in. The others didnt participate. But they were there. Thats why they are mad they were suspended.
Awful to me that three people would want to have sex together in the first place, especially with multiple people around.
Oh but kids will be kids and cant control themselves, right. Its just fun and games.

Interesting. What exactly does it mean when you say "two more jumped in"? Did they have her consent to jump in? Or did she just let it happen without giving explicit consent? If the latter, according to most modern university codes of student conduct, the men are guilty of sexual assault. And the others who stood by and watched are guilty of being complicit. In most codes of student conduct these days the woman must explicitly say "yes" to a request for sex or else the presumption is she is being coerced and the men are guilty of some level of assault

 

[huskerfan1414]

Agreed, they were thinking with the wrong head so to speak...

Comes down to morals and some of the younger generation in this instance didn't have any.

But where are they gonna get it? Highest divorce rate ever, most babies being born out of wedlock or with single parent homes ever, school handing out birth control , even morning after pills in NYC without parents consent, a culture that tells them sex is just a game and as long as your safe have at it because you cant control yourselves, anything goes if it feels good do it. Abort the baby if you get pregnant, porn is a normal part of life...No wonder stuff like this happens, its the adults that need blamed.
And people think the church is backwards...
Even if there was no rape, this night would have had lasting effects on all involved mentally, emotionally, and psychologically.

 

[huskerfan1414]

Interesting. What exactly does it mean when you say "two more jumped in"? Did they have her consent to jump in? Or did she just let it happen without giving explicit consent? If the latter, according to most modern university codes of student conduct, the men are guilty of sexual assault. And the others who stood by and watched are guilty of being complicit. In most codes of student conduct these days the woman must explicitly say "yes" to a request for sex or else the presumption is she is being coerced and the men are guilty of some level of assault

Ill try to find the original article that i read about this.

 

[Metalfan]

Boycott's don't last long in most things. Players back at practice

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...otball-team-ends-boycott-prepare-holiday-bowl

 

[huskerfan1414]

Interesting. What exactly does it mean when you say "two more jumped in"? Did they have her consent to jump in? Or did she just let it happen without giving explicit consent? If the latter, according to most modern university codes of student conduct, the men are guilty of sexual assault. And the others who stood by and watched are guilty of being complicit. In most codes of student conduct these days the woman must explicitly say "yes" to a request for sex or else the presumption is she is being coerced and the men are guilty of some level of assault

This is not the article i saw but these are tweets from people with the official court story with highlights.
Sounds like there is a video so the sex did happen. Whether or not it was rape is the discussion, but her testimony sounds pretty awful. http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/12/minnesota-football-boycott-suspension-teammates

 

[huskerfan1414]

Boycott's don't last long in most things. Players back at practice

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...otball-team-ends-boycott-prepare-holiday-bowl

Methinks they got the full story of the link i posted above and had a change of heart. Thats fine, they proved they can think logically and decided there was enough in question to suspend their teammates.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

This is not the article i saw but these are tweets from people with the official court story with highlights.
Sounds like there is a video so the sex did happen. Whether or not it was rape is the discussion, but her testimony sounds pretty awful. http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/12/minnesota-football-boycott-suspension-teammates

Wow that is disgusting. The fact that there was a video of it is damning. I cannot believe, after reading all of that, that criminal charges were never brought against any of the young men. She may not have been able to "prove" that she did not give consent to the gang sex acts, and by her own admission her memory of the event is blurred and sketchy. Still... it would seem there was enough evidence there to at least warrant a charge of illegally taping a sexual encounter.

 

[RedSea]

The signals sent now are all over the place. On one side people promoting the idea that morality doesn't apply to sexual relations at all, and then on the other people scrutinizing every interaction to try and find an "assault" or "harassment" so that they can confirm theories about evil males or the like. Harvard, Princeton and now Wash U have all suspended whole male minor sport teams this fall for just writing sexually oriented things about womens teams at their own schools. Probably noteworthy that those are "elite" schools academically, expect this to spread by elite wannabe places. And on the other hand, there are way to many cases of the sort that cause the MN problem.

 

[oldjar07]

Were you there? What number in line were you?

What the heck is your problem? I'd never lay a finger on a woman without her consent.

Young men's lives are ruined by this sort of thing all the time. They don't get the sort of emotional support that the alleged victims get. Even if they are completely innocent, they'll spend the rest of their lives treated like rapists.

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

What the heck is your problem? I'd never lay a finger on a woman without her consent.

Young men's lives are ruined by this sort of thing all the time. They don't get the sort of emotional support that the alleged victims get. Even if they are completely innocent, they'll spend the rest of their lives treated like rapists.

You stated she was "literally asking for it". Spoken as fact. If you weren't there how do you know what she consented to?

 

[Tuco Salamanca]

If all else fails, pull out the strawman argument. In this case she was literally asking for it, so she was giving consent. Having consent is not a defense? I don't even know how people can have sex anymore as not even consent is a defense against sexual assault.

What does this mean then?

 

[Pennsyhusker]

I would just ask if oldjar has read the 80 page report? Because it is pretty damning for the football players involved in this incident. No, the female does not come across as a saint. But neither does she come across as someone who was "asking for it". Read the report. It is eye opening.

 

[oldjar07]

I would just ask if oldjar has read the 80 page report? Because it is pretty damning for the football players involved in this incident. No, the female does not come across as a saint. But neither does she come across as someone who was "asking for it". Read the report. It is eye opening.

I wasn't talking about this specific case and neither were you when tuco quoted your original post. You made a general argument about consent, and tuco took it as you saying she consented in the Minnesota case.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

I wasn't talking about this specific case and neither were you when tuco quoted your original post. You made a general argument about consent, and tuco took it as you saying she consented in the Minnesota case.

Ok. Understood. Thanks for the clarification. Sorry if I misunderstood

 

[oldjar07]

I would just ask if oldjar has read the 80 page report? Because it is pretty damning for the football players involved in this incident. No, the female does not come across as a saint. But neither does she come across as someone who was "asking for it". Read the report. It is eye opening.

I read the article. And it could easily be a case that she regretted to consenting to the event. What girl is going to admit that she let multiple men have sex with her? She has a reason to lie about giving consent to the act. Still no proof either way on whether she gave consent or not.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

I read the article. And it could easily be a case that she regretted to consenting to the event. What girl is going to admit that she let multiple men have sex with her? She has a reason to lie about giving consent to the act. Still no proof either way on whether she gave consent or not.

The incident would probably have never been known by anyone who was not there had the female not pressed charges. So if she was embarrassed that she had sex with ten men, why would she make it public? Maybe she knew it was going to spread around campus via the gossip wagon and decided to make charges? Who knows?

But the men involved should be ashamed of themselves. I think Minnesota made the right call

 

[RedSea]

I read the article. And it could easily be a case that she regretted to consenting to the event. What girl is going to admit that she let multiple men have sex with her? She has a reason to lie about giving consent to the act. Still no proof either way on whether she gave consent or not.

It "could" be that she consented throughout, but at best it isn't clear, especially after the encounter with the first two guys. Even if you find consent with the first two - and it sounds to me like she did, unless she was even more drunk than she said -, after that she was cornered in a room and other guys kept coming in, and I didn't see anything indicating that she asked for more guys to come in, or that there was a lot of discussion about whether she wanted to do anything with the others. Sounded to me like she was probably sexually assaulted after the first two at least.