Funny little Big 12 dreamers. Living in KC, I of course listen to the local

[mkbrkloster]

I'm not finding the article that I wanted, but there is some of it here:
http://espn.go.com/college-football...ncaa-conference-realignments-begin-take-shape
and
http://maryland.247sports.com/Bolt/...-Big-Ten-Payment-Ever-in-Rookie-Year-43637545

Basically, he blamed our deal on a lack of leverage and a small tv market etc. I'm not buying that.. to say that the Maryland athletics tv market is bigger than ours. Sure, there may be more tv sets in that area, but I highly doubt one could say with a straight face that there will be more viewers on any given Saturday to watch a Maryland football game vs. a Nebraska football game.

He's trying to explain or justify why our deal was as low as it was saying he was negotiating from a weak position.

If I can find the more recent article, I will post it, but he says basically that the reason we got the deal we did is because things were different back then in 2010 and again that we were negotiating from a weak position. You can believe what you like, but I'm positive it was Harvey that was the weak position, and not Nebraska football, our brand, or our leverage position.

Some key quotes:
"For this past year, the school received about $16 million from the Big Ten, whereas other Big Ten schools received about $27.5 million each. Nebraska received $15.4 million the year before. At the same time, Nebraska's former conference colleagues in the Big 12 saw an average of $21 million. "

"At the time we entered the Big Ten there was a realistic possibility that Nebraska would be without a conference. It isn't as though we came with a lot of leverage," he said, noting that at the time the Big 12 was on the verge of implosion. "We didn't bring a lot of TV sets or people. We brought a strong athletic tradition. We brought a strong academic tradition."

"Maryland was in a position of financial despair -- but also, bargaining leverage-- when it joined the Big Ten in 2012, as illustrated by a Omaha.com report contrasting Maryland's initial conference payout to Nebraska's shares.

Maryland received $36.1 million from the conference in 2014-2015, its rookie season in the conference -- $4 million more than the league's longstanding members,nearly twice as much as Nebraska and the highest payout any school's ever receiver from the conference, per the report. Some of that discrepancy is due to the front-loaded deal the school received to ease the burden of its $31 million payout to the ACC, along with a portion of the $20-to-$30 million travel subsidy the conference agreed to provide. Maryland's $24.5 million base payment was still 33 percent more than the Cornhuskers received in the fourth season as Big Ten members and $14 million more than fellow newcomer Rutgers received, the reports says."

“There was a considerable difference in negotiating leverage between Nebraska and Maryland,” Nebraska Chancellor Harvey Perlman told the site. “While we brought a better athletic reputation, they brought considerably more financial opportunity for the conference — opportunity that Nebraska will share in the years ahead.”
"

In order to say that we got a crappy deal, you would have to say that our negotiation position was stronger than the deal we got. Most importantly, the Big 12 was imploding, and we had only one option to jump to, the BIG. The ACC was very strong, relatively speaking, when Maryland jumped. Maryland could have stayed (in fact it was a shock when they didn't), we couldn't. Desperation = poor leverage. TV sets? Small state, small surrounding states. Granted everyone in the small state is already a fan. We Husker fans still go to the games, watch on TV, and buy gear even when we stink. That also means we're kind of peaked out...up-side isn't much higher than where we are. Maryland TV sets is the exact opposite, if they can ever turn their program around.

Maybe it was a bad deal, maybe it wasn't. People much smarter at this than you and I deemed it wasn't for the situation at the time.

Again, I'll say, we didn't make this deal for the first 4 years, we made it for the next 25. If you had to bet your house on which conference would be stronger over the next 25 years (which is exactly what we did), which one would you go with?

 

[NU 71 72 74]

I believe the real money to be made in the Big 10 is R&D. Football is just a side bet. The benefits to moving to the Big 10 are way beyond athletics.

BINGO !!!! On target. Congrats !

.02

and, Go Cats !!

 

[timnsun]

Nebraska will never be good again.

Thanks for joining us and making yourself look like an idiot. Try to stay on topic here. Will Nebraska ever return to the Big 12? If you can't weigh in on this question, don't weigh in.

Moron.

 

[NikkiSixx]

In order to say that we got a crappy deal, you would have to say that our negotiation position was stronger than the deal we got. Most importantly, the Big 12 was imploding, and we had only one option to jump to, the BIG. The ACC was very strong, relatively speaking, when Maryland jumped. Maryland could have stayed (in fact it was a shock when they didn't), we couldn't. Desperation = poor leverage. TV sets? Small state, small surrounding states. Granted everyone in the small state is already a fan. We Husker fans still go to the games, watch on TV, and buy gear even when we stink. That also means we're kind of peaked out...up-side isn't much higher than where we are. Maryland TV sets is the exact opposite, if they can ever turn their program around.

Maybe it was a bad deal, maybe it wasn't. People much smarter at this than you and I deemed it wasn't for the situation at the time.

Again, I'll say, we didn't make this deal for the first 4 years, we made it for the next 25. If you had to bet your house on which conference would be stronger over the next 25 years (which is exactly what we did), which one would you go with?

Our negotiating position was indeed stronger than what HP was saying. That was just his excuse for the way things turned out. Truth be told, negotiating against Jim Delany is not ever going to be easy.

What I do think people have a hard time understanding is I think the real break even point is much further down the road than people think.

We have not been making as much had we been in the Big 12 these past four years, so we are taking home less money than had we stayed. Add to that, we got no negotiated stipend for the increased travel expenditures.

Now I do believe research grants have exploded, so from the academic side, the University is likely in much better shape.

My point is more so from the football side of things. After we start getting our full share next year, with the increased travel and smaller payments we could be in the neighborhood of needing to re-coup 50 million dollars before we actually break even. I'm taking a guestimate that will be another 5-7 years. A lot can change on the landscape between now and then and the next contract negotiation comes up in six years, so those continued high payouts are not guaranteed.

Given the odds and enough time, it probably will benefit the football program eventually from a monetary standpoint, but then one has to wonder if the other aspects of conference change, loss of tradition and identity have been worth it from a productivity standpoint.

 

[mkbrkloster]

Our negotiating position was indeed stronger than what HP was saying. That was just his excuse for the way things turned out. Truth be told, negotiating against Jim Delany is not ever going to be easy.

What I do think people have a hard time understanding is I think the real break even point is much further down the road than people think.

We have not been making as much had we been in the Big 12 these past four years, so we are taking home less money than had we stayed. Add to that, we got no negotiated stipend for the increased travel expenditures.

Now I do believe research grants have exploded, so from the academic side, the University is likely in much better shape.

My point is more so from the football side of things. After we start getting our full share next year, with the increased travel and smaller payments we could be in the neighborhood of needing to re-coup 50 million dollars before we actually break even. I'm taking a guestimate that will be another 5-7 years. A lot can change on the landscape between now and then and the next contract negotiation comes up in six years, so those continued high payouts are not guaranteed.

Given the odds and enough time, it probably will benefit the football program eventually from a monetary standpoint, but then one has to wonder if the other aspects of conference change, loss of tradition and identity have been worth it from a productivity standpoint.

What we were leaving was imploding at the time, so the loss of tradition and identity was seemingly a non-factor. You are right, academic benefits far outweigh Big 12.

So, just to be clear, if you had to bet your house on the BIG for Big 12 in 25 years, which would you bet on? That's what we did, and we chose BIG. Not sure I know anyone that wouldn't have, including evidently you. Seems to me you are hung up over our deal in the short term. The last 4 years payout is irrelevant with that view (or even the next 5-7), which is the correct vision to have in a decision like this.

 

[iclone]

Bingo. Our membership in the CIC drives hundreds of millions of research dollars to NU (from an $8 billion annual pool), far exceeding the financial impact of joining the conference for athletics.

This never gets discussed when people talk about conference realignment, even by smart men like Snyder, but no sane NU President would ever steer us away from the B1G willingly.

http://www.aau.edu/about/default.aspx?id=16710

 

[timnsun]

http://www.aau.edu/about/default.aspx?id=16710

What is the purpose of this? Again, like i shared with the other moron on the board, stick to the thread... are we going back to the Big 12 or not? You seem to have an incredibly difficult time understanding the topic here.

Obviously trolling will get you a one way ticket out of here...

 

[WillieK]

For me again personally - I miss my trips to Lincoln & Columbia for games!! Some of my best buds in Wichita are Nebraska fans!! Frankly it just sucks from a fan perspective...I understand the money & hatred for Texas!! But most of you guys have to hate the travel for away games in the Big 10 and I will say it again - Nebraska was part of the original Big 6/8...you can't just erase 80+ years of history overnight but I guess that can change overtime. Again - all of this realignment and $ now in college football has changed the landscape, some ways for the worst in my opinion. Goodluck this fall!!! WK

 

[iclone]

What is the purpose of this? Again, like i shared with the other moron on the board, stick to the thread... are we going back to the Big 12 or not? You seem to have an incredibly difficult time understanding the topic here.

Obviously trolling will get you a one way ticket out of here...

Obviously a part of the academic discussion.

 

[WillieK]

For me again personally - I miss my trips to Lincoln & Columbia for games!! Some of my best buds in Wichita are Nebraska fans!! Frankly it just sucks from a fan perspective...I understand the money & hatred for Texas!! But most of you guys have to hate the travel for your away games in the Big 10 & I will say it again, Nebraska was part of the original Big 6/8...you can't erase 80+ years of history overnight but I guess that can change overtime. Again, all of this realignment and the $ now in college football has changed the landscape, some ways for the worst in my opinion. Goodluck this fall!!! WK

 

[timnsun]

Obviously a part of the academic discussion.

You think you're smart, huh?

Yeah, you're right, we are no longer AAU members... But guess what? We are in the B1G anyway, making tons of money (research and sports related) in this conference. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that the money is far better than anything the Big 12 could offer... Nebraska is in the best possible place and will not entertain a return to the Big 12. Which is what this thread is about.

I guess you're not as smart as you think...

Edit: not to mention prestige... B1G has more prestige than the Big 12 every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[nwualum]

I will admit the first year or two, I still watched a lot of big XII football games, especially for the prior big 8 members. However, that has dropped dramatically in all sports. I pretty much watch big 10 whenever I can, and will only watch a big XII game if there is nothing much else on. I really don't even care or think about those old schools anymore.

 

[otismotis08]

Was it Keitzman??? It had to have been. I stopped listening to KC sports radio about 2 years ago. I just can't do it. Especially Keitzman. He's has an NU hate boner for years. He knows the minute old man Snyder leaves, KSU is toast and when the Power 5 goes to the Power 4, KSU most likely doesn't have a seat at the table. That next TV contract that guarantees us nearly double what Big 12 teams are making, guarantees we're never going back. Screw 'em. I'll drink a toast to the day the Big 12 dies nd I can look at my KU and KSU friends and say, " You made your bed...."

Must have been Keitzman. He has always been jealous of NU's success.

 

[aged_wolverine]

A couple of idiot posters in this thread.


As full members of the conference, that means equals shares of the network. The same network the other members were forced to pay start up costs on, and dealt with lowered income for several years due to it. Quit being a bitch, and realize we done hit the mother load with this last contract....of which Neb gets their full share starting next yr.

So suck it up cupcake. Neb isn't facing anything the original schools didn't deal with. We built this conference. We built the network. Waiting a few yrs to be a fully vested and equal member of this collection is small potatoes vs the big picture. Schools like OSU and Michigan have the same 1 vote you get. Even more so, we are the oldest of the P5s. Stability isn't something that grows on trees.


As for the so called other "Michigan" poster stating Neb will never be good....I would say they have a better road than teams in the East. They go thru Iowa, Wiscy, and NW to try for a shot at championship game. We have the Bucks, Sparty, and PSU to face yearly.

 

[TFrazier]

Must have been Keitzman. He has always been jealous of NU's success.

He is adamant that Nebraska would beg to come back to the Big 12. He is so clueless.

 

[TheLiberalHunter]

A couple of idiot posters in this thread.


As full members of the conference, that means equals shares of the network. The same network the other members were forced to pay start up costs on, and dealt with lowered income for several years due to it. Quit being a bitch, and realize we done hit the mother load with this last contract....of which Neb gets their full share starting next yr.

So suck it up cupcake. Neb isn't facing anything the original schools didn't deal with. We built this conference. We built the network. Waiting a few yrs to be a fully vested and equal member of this collection is small potatoes vs the big picture. Schools like OSU and Michigan have the same 1 vote you get. Even more so, we are the oldest of the P5s. Stability isn't something that grows on trees.


As for the so called other "Michigan" poster stating Neb will never be good....I would say they have a better road than teams in the East. They go thru Iowa, Wiscy, and NW to try for a shot at championship game. We have the Bucks, Sparty, and PSU to face yearly.

Well said Old Man Logan(if you get that)

 

[TFrazier]

Discussing it on 810 AM out of KC right now.

 

[sandiegohawk]

To this day, I could still watch a KU-OU football game and be fairly entertained, but I can't really watch Minnesota-Illinois or Purdue-Maryland...hard to watch.

Last year in Lawrence was OU 62 Kansas 7. Attendance was 26,667

As much as Minnesota-Illinois doesn't excite me either at least it is fairly competitive and there are fans in the stands. Last year it was 32-23 with 49,976 in attendance. I don't think I could watch OU-KU for more than 5 minutes.

Maryland and Purdue have not played each other as of yet in the Big Ten so it would be hard to watch that one.

 

[Larry Hagman's Liver]

http://www.aau.edu/about/default.aspx?id=16710

https://web.archive.org/web/20100612155233/http://www.isutobig10.com/

 

[Larry Hagman's Liver]

Obviously a part of the academic discussion.

Well, if you're looking to advance the academic discussion, I'll share some content I've posted previously on this forum...

Nebraska is the only Big Ten school that isn't a member of the AAU (although, fortunately, we still were when Perlman and Osborne brokered our move to the B1G in 2010, because the absence of AAU membership alone could have sunk the deal). On the contrary, NU is a member of the Big Ten's academic consortium, the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC), along with the other 13 Big Ten schools and the University of Chicago, a former conference member.

Not being an AAU member is somewhat embarrassing, although the AAU doesn't count agricultural research dollars towards their grant requirements, which significantly hurt NU. We also don't count the research money that goes to the NU Medical Center, although other schools centralize medical research in their applications. There was some speculation that getting booted out of the AAU was political on the part of schools that didn't like us leaving the Big XII or weren't in favor of us entering the B1G, but it is what it is.

However, our membership in the CIC is what's truly important. That affiliation alone drives hundreds of millions of research dollars to NU (from an aforementioned $8 billion annual pool), far exceeding the unmatched athletic riches that come with being a B1G institution.

After all, it's no wonder ISU was looking to get out of the confines of the Big Xii gimp trunk in the basement of UT's pawn shop in Austin. Otherwise, and it deserves posting again, your namesake wouldn't have launched this pathetic, desperate, embarrassment of a website back in 2010...

https://web.archive.org/web/20100612155233/http://www.isutobig10.com/

Seriously, this is the website equivalent of...

 

[Captain Nick]

Seriously!?!

Iowa State has a football program?!?

 

[Husker.Wed.]

Our negotiating position was indeed stronger than what HP was saying. That was just his excuse for the way things turned out. Truth be told, negotiating against Jim Delany is not ever going to be easy.

What I do think people have a hard time understanding is I think the real break even point is much further down the road than people think.

We have not been making as much had we been in the Big 12 these past four years, so we are taking home less money than had we stayed. Add to that, we got no negotiated stipend for the increased travel expenditures.

Now I do believe research grants have exploded, so from the academic side, the University is likely in much better shape.

My point is more so from the football side of things. After we start getting our full share next year, with the increased travel and smaller payments we could be in the neighborhood of needing to re-coup 50 million dollars before we actually break even. I'm taking a guestimate that will be another 5-7 years. A lot can change on the landscape between now and then and the next contract negotiation comes up in six years, so those continued high payouts are not guaranteed.

Given the odds and enough time, it probably will benefit the football program eventually from a monetary standpoint, but then one has to wonder if the other aspects of conference change, loss of tradition and identity have been worth it from a productivity standpoint.

All I know is when I make a financial deal, be it buying a car or negotiating work on my house or making an investment, I judge whether it was a good deal by how I feel the next day, next week, next year and so on. When NU cut the B1G deal I was ecstatic and got the first good nights sleep I had in a couple weeks since the B12 looked like it was going to disband. I felt good a year later about it and I still feel good now. Whether or not Harvey could have gotten a few mil more or travel costs is not even on my radar. The other B1G teams aren't going anywhere. However, if we were still in the B12, I would always be sweating UT and OU might go somewhere else, leaving us to join the Mountain West or reform the Missouri Valley Conference.

 

[NikkiSixx]

What we were leaving was imploding at the time, so the loss of tradition and identity was seemingly a non-factor. You are right, academic benefits far outweigh Big 12.

So, just to be clear, if you had to bet your house on the BIG for Big 12 in 25 years, which would you bet on? That's what we did, and we chose BIG. Not sure I know anyone that wouldn't have, including evidently you. Seems to me you are hung up over our deal in the short term. The last 4 years payout is irrelevant with that view (or even the next 5-7), which is the correct vision to have in a decision like this.

If you are looking at things purely from a financial standpoint, then I agree. Hindsight is much easier than foresight, but I still think ultimately, the move to this conference does not benefit the performance of the football team. It will be as if Nebraska took the money and in return settled for mediocrity. I don't expect everyone to agree with that, it's just where I think we are, and in the future, others may look back and see it this way too.

All I know is when I make a financial deal, be it buying a car or negotiating work on my house or making an investment, I judge whether it was a good deal by how I feel the next day, next week, next year and so on. When NU cut the B1G deal I was ecstatic and got the first good nights sleep I had in a couple weeks since the B12 looked like it was going to disband. I felt good a year later about it and I still feel good now. Whether or not Harvey could have gotten a few mil more or travel costs is not even on my radar. The other B1G teams aren't going anywhere. However, if we were still in the B12, I would always be sweating UT and OU might go somewhere else, leaving us to join the Mountain West or reform the Missouri Valley Conference.

That method of judging a decision, while unorthodox, is something I understand. People can and do make decisions using their gut instinct, even in lieu of facts that don't always support their decision. Often, I will pretend that the deal or purchase I am considering has already happened and re-frame the decision as in the past so that I can ask myself how I feel about it now, after the fact. It has saved me from purchasing things I don't need many times.

 

[OldTownPepe]

I personally miss Nebraska...I am an old Big 8 guy & yes, I'm a K-State guy but you can't loose schools like Nebraska & TX A&M AND replace them with a Cincinnati & Memphis, are you freakin kidding me!!! So I take N back in a heartbeat!!!! I understand the hatred for Texas but you guys don't fit in the Big 10 in my opinion. I think the decision was based on resentment, spite & short-term thinking...you guys will always be second fiddle in the Big 10 to Ohio State & Michigan in football! I think other teams in the Big 12 are getting tired of Texas' BS...where is Texas going to go??? Expansion was an unamious decision...so I'm hoping Snyder's comments have some traction & two of the former schools do come back...and I HOPE one of those schools is Nebraska, probably just wishful thinking on my part!

Short-term thinking? Nebraska's decision to join the Big Ten demonstrates the polar opposite. What rock have you been under for the past five years? When the Huskers joined the B1G after 2010, I thought they were the best fit for the conference of any team in the country. As far as playing second fiddle to Ohio State and Michigan, I didn't see either one of them in the divisional or conference championship games last year, and that statement shows a lack of awareness of how much the B1G has changed in the last few decades. Wisconsin and Michigan State have been dominant along with OSU the past six years, and Nebraska and Iowa have played for a conference championship where Michigan hasn't even been close. This isn't the 70's any more, and it's more fantasy than wishful thinking that Nebraska would ever return to the Big XII.

 

[BoroKnight]

Nebraska might fit better with the Big 12 for a host of reasons, but I'm sure at the end of the day they are not seriously thinking of going back. All things being equal (meaning the Power 5 form their own division and the pot is divided equally among all of them) they might prefer playing those schools, but all things are not equal and they can do the math just fine in Lincoln.

 

[tpmcg]

if we'd have shown a little better in the b1g since arriving, maybe there's less talk about the past. i've looked back occasionally, but less as time goes on.

 

[OkeyDokeyNU]

Obviously a part of the academic discussion.

The fact that you see only the white or black in this is obvious. Nebraska was ousted from the aau for personal and political reasons. Do a smidgen more research, and you will discover the truth. Iowa State of all schools should be very concerned. You still account for ag research to remain in the aau, while nebraska was penalized for it.

And don't get me started on med. research. ISU can not hold a candle to UNMC - also not accounted for in the aau's determination.

 

[iclone]

The fact that you see only the white or black in this is obvious. Nebraska was ousted from the aau for personal and political reasons. Do a smidgen more research, and you will discover the truth. Iowa State of all schools should be very concerned. You still account for ag research to remain in the aau, while nebraska was penalized for it.

And don't get me started on med. research. ISU can not hold a candle to UNMC - also not accounted for in the aau's determination.

Why is agriculture unimportant?

 

[gw2kpro]

Except to attempt to attract attention to their radio programs, is there any evidence anywhere that even remotely points to Nebraska being slightly interested in returning to the Big 12?

 

[timnsun]

Why is agriculture unimportant?

the counterpoint from okeydokey is this... If Nebraska used the agriculture research dollars we would still be in the AAU. If the standard becomes more uniform and Iowa state becomes penalized for agricultural research we will see how short your stay will be in the AAU.

 

[OkeyDokeyNU]

the counterpoint from okeydokey is this... If Nebraska used the agriculture research dollars we would still be in the AAU. If the standard becomes more uniform and Iowa state becomes penalized for agricultural research we will see how short your stay will be in the AAU.

Thanks for the assist. I have an idea, I post inflammatory things, and you answer for them. Pretty sweet gig for me.

 

[Charlie Marlow]

 

[HailHailToMichigan]

Thanks for joining us and making yourself look like an idiot. Try to stay on topic here. Will Nebraska ever return to the Big 12? If you can't weigh in on this question, don't weigh in.

Moron.

Triggered.

 

[timnsun]

Triggered.

Might have been more appropriate to say "Trolled."

 

[Alum-Ni]

Absolutely Nebraska is making more money in Big 10-4. Huskers do not have a fan base that could support and make financially viable Tier 3 programming of their own like the Longhorn Network which would allow them to match or exceed.

But this narrative that it was Texas alone that made life miserable in the old Big 12 is false. Texas, Nebraska, OU and A&M all opposed revenue sharing and getting along.

Not true. Back in the Big 12 days, Nebraska was exploring implementing its own network. It's partially where Texas got the idea of a Longhorn Network.

 

[hookem]

sports radio stations during my drive time. They are discussing which former teams want back in the Big 12. According to them NU is at the top of the list.

I wouldn't read too much in to this. I don't know of a single person who thinks there's anything to this. It's just radio fodder and someone trying to get clicks. Not even worth talking about.