not true I knew they had started but your post was " Starter who transferred" not previous starter it was "starter" nevermind its not worth the dispute especially since I agree with the point you were trying to make
Attrition and the walkon program
- Thread starter jedimasterjed
- Start date
well if that is your stance then I expect in the future every time you post about something you like about this staff please post something you do not like
Seriously, give it a rest. It doesn't matter if they were a previous starter or not. Both started games, multiple ones at that, and transferred. Under Pelini. Period.
Did Grim start before he transferred? No.
Did Talan start before he transferred? No.
Did Stevenson start before he transferred? By your theory, no.
Did Thurston start before he transferred? By your theory, no.
But for some reason, you're obsessed in defending the Pelini list, while ignoring the facts.
here we go again the Bo card pops out - as I stated I agree with your position, there is no dispute here other than the wording you used. Kids leave programs all the time it happens with all coaches and all programs. In fact look at the 1992 recruiting class arguably one of the best classes ever produced at NU - 46% of that class never contributed on the field - attrition is common and healthy if handled properly
You're missing the point here. I'm not talking about balanced meaning every time you say something good you need to say something bad and vice versa. Balanced here means that if you're going to criticize Riley for having players leave under his watch, then to give a balanced view of the situation, it needs to be pointed out that Bo certainly had his share of players leave under his watch too. If you're going to criticize Riley, then you need to criticize Bo too-or better yet maybe just leave it alone altogether and accept that players leave programs all the time and there's nothing particularly unusual about who and how many leave here under any coach.
There's no Bo card, what is wrong with you? Seriously. He's the most recent Nebraska head coach not named Mike Riley. He's the freshest in everyone's mind.
I stated it happens everywhere and the other poster acted like it's only happened under Riley. I can post the Callahan ones too. My mind might be a little rusty to list Solich and Osborne guys that left.
Why haven't you quoted the other poster about Grim, Talan, Stevenson & Thurston?
Why in the heck does anyone make a point by comparing the current staff to a previous staff who was FIRED why not compare Riley to a successful coach. A poster can believe Riley needs to do a better job at keeping players here and there is some evidence that is true, Valentine leaving for one. What Pelini did makes no friggin difference as he was fired for non-performance. I agree players leave and it is common, however I disagree that it should not be something that is looked at close. As a coach you need to make sure the reasons for leaving do not involve issues that can be fixed. I wonder if Valentine would have come back if he knew Hughes was being replaced before he made the decision
This last year Alabama had players leave... LSU has a guy transferring now... I'm sure most other schools are dealing with some kind of transfer issues... The point is there are some who want to blame Riley for this, as if it only happens here.
If some want to blame Riley for this, I guess that's fine. I may not agree, but hey, this is a message board. We won't all agree.
And for the record, I often respect dissenting opinions... Where I start bristling is when I start to see a narrative build against the coaching staff before I believe is necessary. You know where I stand... I believe the coaches deserve a chance that is longer than just one season to decide. He's obviously gonna get that... But some seem as if they don't want that or can't wait for that... To me that's frustrating.
It would be one thing if the coaches said we aren't gonna change things... But that's not what's being said by the coaches. I know, we have to see the changes on the field too... Hopefully we do.
The post by nebcountry above clearly implied that what was happening now was unprecedented. There was no context behind it, and when he was presented with a list of all the players that transfered under Pelini, instead of just admitting that he was wrong by suggesting that the players transferring out was unprecedented, he tries to imply(wrongly) that the players transferring out now are important players and the ones who transferred out under Pelini were "buried on the depth chart". He had no intention whatsoever of a fair discussion of the issue, he had one sole intention-to try to smear Riley. I'm sure that doesn't bother you one bit because you've never been on board with him, and no matter how much you try to hide behind the "I hope he's successful" line, sincere or not(I'll assume it is), you don't have a problem with it because he's confirming what you already believe.
I think Pelini is a fair comparison, because we know that there are still some people out there who think he should still be here, and he is the most recent ex-coach and the easiest to compile names of players who transfered under him for the sake of comparison. But if you don't think Pelini is a fair comparison because he isn't the standard we should be looking for(maybe the only thing we agree on), then who should he be compared to? Callahan? Solich? Are they the standards we should be looking for? Should he be compared to Osborne-as if he isn't as good in that area as a 3 time National Championship winning coach, then he isn't good enough? For that matter, Osborne had his share of players leave too. And so do other coaches around the country. It's something that happens, and unless you really have evidence that what is happening now under Riley is unprecedented, then it's not an argument that should even be brought up.
It has now become obvious to me that SR used this thread for another opportunity to 1) take another dig at coach Riley and 2) close his eyes and ears at what happened with Pelini. As if it doesn't matter, just because he's not here anymore.
Are there really 52 cards in a deck?
how about using a current successful coach as a comparison - Take D'Antonio at MSU
Lets compare whether NU has an attrition problem - Clearly MSU is a program on the right track currently
So look at the 2012 recruiting classes and how many of those players are on the roster right now. I realize some were Juco but I think the numbers are still a fair comparison
MSU - has an attrition rate of 35% that means 65% of the 2012 class is on their roster - NU on the other hand has an attrition rate of 65% meaning only 35% of those players are still here.
Based on this short sample I would say NU has a problem. Now you bet many of those left under Pelini, however if Riley continues to turn players over at the same rate then we still have the same problem. I think all programs have attrition however I also believe the attrition at NU has been and is still higher than a successful program woud like to see
Except 1 class is not an adequate sample size.
That's like using 1 day to determine how much rain a location will receive in a week or month.
That's like using 1 day to determine how much rain a location will receive in a week or month.
Why can't the season begin TOMORROW!!!
Can't you see that many folks are getting warmed up for the coming season? They haven't got their pitchforking and tarring down yet. Maybe with some more reps they will be first team by next Saturday... unless Riley drives them off.
Talk about misleading, just stop. How the heck do you blame Riley for 3 guys transferring before he was the head coach at Nebraska?
17 guys in the class of 2012
3 exhausted eligibility
3 transferred under previous staff (Pelini); Brown, Afalava, Curry
1 declared early to NFL; Valentine (NFL draft isn't considered attrition)
1 kicked off for PED (Alexander) after he was suspended for 1 full year by Pelini
1 expelled by the University
1 transferred under current staff (Riley); Thurston
That means there's 10 guys remaining from the 2012 class; 17 minus 3 exhausted minus 3 that already transferred under previous staff minus 1 declared early to NFL. Of the 10 remaining in this "study", 6 are still here; Cotton, Armstrong, Westerkamp, Rose-Ivey, Moore & Whitaker.
6 of 10 remaining is 60%. The number is actually better than that as Moss and Alexander had issues prior to Riley taking charge. Removing each of them brings it to 6 of 8 still here for 75%. But, I'll keep them in the number as it's coach Riley's fault that LeRoy Alexander couldn't put down the needle and Avery Moss showed his penis multiple times; under Pelini as well.
25 guys in the 2014 class.
5 guys never made it through fall camp under Pelini; Willis, King, Irons, Stewart, Harrison
4 guys have transferred under Riley; Walton, Bush, Keels, Mosley
1 exhausted eligibility; Cockrell
That means 15 are still here. 15 of 19 (5 xfers, 1 exhausted) is 79% still in Lincoln. And of the 15 that are still here; 9 are projected starters next Saturday while a 10th (Foster) was projected till a season ending injury.
It's no coincidence you attempted to mislead with the 2012 class, instead of looking at the 2014 class. It doesn't fit your agenda, that's extremely clear.
5 guys never made it through fall camp under Pelini; Willis, King, Irons, Stewart, Harrison
4 guys have transferred under Riley; Walton, Bush, Keels, Mosley
1 exhausted eligibility; Cockrell
That means 15 are still here. 15 of 19 (5 xfers, 1 exhausted) is 79% still in Lincoln. And of the 15 that are still here; 9 are projected starters next Saturday while a 10th (Foster) was projected till a season ending injury.
It's no coincidence you attempted to mislead with the 2012 class, instead of looking at the 2014 class. It doesn't fit your agenda, that's extremely clear.
Geez take off the tin foil hat. I am not blaming Riley I am simply stating I believe we have a problem with attrition. I used 2012 as those players would now be seniors. I used MSU as they recruit similar to us and they have been successful. I believe players leaving early still hurt. If you are Alabama or OSU and a guy leaves as a junior you have a bunch of 4 and 5 star players you replace him with. That is not the case at NU or MSU. I think Pelini had to much attrition and too small of classes. We really do not know how Riley will be, but I think he has lost kids already and if it continues at a pace like the last coach he has a real problem
That is very true and a good point. Again it does not change the fact we have lost a lot of players. If MSU is starting a guy who has been in their system 4 to 5 years and we are starting a soph guess who normally wins. I am hoping Riley will build an atmosphere where players stick around as opposed to the toxic atmosphere Pelini had
You are an abrasive little guy aren't you? You have literally responded with an insult on each point. I try to be reasonable and explain my thoughts so you could see my position whether you agreed with it or not but now I see you are just looking to fight and hurl more insults so I say let's let this discussion end its going nowhere
I think we're saying that we don't have a problem with attrition any more than any other program. What we have a problem with is poor roster management and recruiting by the previous staff. If that bothers you bringing up the last staff maybe it's because you have bias against our current staff and no amount of facts will satisfy your disdain. I think you're going to have to let a couple more seasons play out before you can pass judgement on Riley & Co. Or perhaps you already have your mind made up.
More gold from you. You claim there's insults, which hasn't happened, while calling me "little guy". I can handle that so you won't see me complaining.
Deflection is definitely something you like.
You're not interested in discussion, otherwise you would've cleared the air a long time ago. You're interested in starting something you can't finish, claim others are misleading all while misleading a position in the process. At the same time, you'll get your petty digs at Coach Riley while completely ignoring the facts.
I'll rest easy knowing I presented some good, hard, factual data to this thread only to watch you face the wind and piss in it. It's on me for not catching what you were doing sooner. That won't happen again, all can be assured.
Players leaving programs happens EVERYWHERE. The board doesn't change though. If someone is critical of Riley someone else will immediately bring up Bo. A. I don't think Riley is losing anymore players than most other coaches B. For the 888th time. Who cares about Bo? He has left the building! Riley had a bad year last year with the exception of the Spartans and the Bruins. Let's all hope he has a better year this year.
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