Worst offensive line play in a looooooong time...

[Pennsyhusker]

True freshman that maybe is more athletic versus a sophomore or junior that has been in the system for 2 years now, that is the question. It appears that what defenses are throwing at them are tough enough for an older guy to mentally handle. Maybe you could get by with one freshman but man 2 would be self defeating. I guess I have to trust that they are putting the guys our there that they believe give them the best chance to win. The opposition has been able to confuse our O line, QB and RBs at times with their blitz packages so I'm not sure many true freshman could handle it mentally. Personally IF I thought burning a redshirt or two would be the difference in even one win, I would do it in a heartbeat. The stakes are high when you get to 6-0.

Unless the freshman is clearly beyond his years in physical and mental development, throwing him in the game against Wisky would probably be a disaster. Once again, I am not advocating burning redshirts. I merely raised the issue because Riley did which got my mind pondering possible solutions to our current mess along the offensive line. And the bottom line, sadly, is that there are no solutions. We just need to find a way now to score points as best we can, despite a hobbled line.

 

[spinner4]

I would say that Coach Cav has to shoulder a little bit of the blame for this. He has been pretty set on only playing a limited number of guys on the line. This doesn't allow there to be much depth built up. Supposedly going in to this season Foster was one of our best on the O Line. I am not sure he hardly played last year.

This is 100% correct. I feel like everyone of our coaches has adjusted to the team and its needs except Coach Cav. I don't think he can handle change. I don't think he can handle the job.

So many wrongly state that Melt only used 5 guys on the title teams. That is wrong. People always bring up the 1994 team and how we only used 5 guys. First of all, that's wrong. That only really happen in the Orange Bowl. Easily anyone can see (when re-watching the games) the 1994 team used seven guys in the rotation. Steve Ott and Bill Humphrey (I believe it's Humphrey that backed up center) played as subs and not just mop up duty. And that was a loaded line with Vets on it that were healthy enough to play only 5.

And when Melt talked about only using a few guys to kind of back Coach Cav's philosophy, he never said I only had 5 guys. He always said, I used a small amount or just a few guys too, etc.

If Coach Cav can't handle working with more than 5 guys, then that's a problem. A) either replace Bruce Read with an Assistant O-Line Coach or B) Find a different O-line coach who can handle working with more that 5 guys.

This line is too beat-up and young to work with only 5 guys and its not going to get better. They are not going to get healthy if they cant rest.

 

[inWV]

This is 100% correct. I feel like everyone of our coaches has adjusted to the team and its needs except Coach Cav. I don't think he can handle change. I don't think he can handle the job.

So many wrongly state that Melt only used 5 guys on the title teams. That is wrong. People always bring up the 1994 team and how we only used 5 guys. First of all, that's wrong. That only really happen in the Orange Bowl. Easily anyone can see (when re-watching the games) the 1994 team used seven guys in the rotation. Steve Ott and Bill Humphrey (I believe it's Humphrey that backed up center) played as subs and not just mop up duty. And that was a loaded line with Vets on it that were healthy enough to play only 5.

And when Melt talked about only using a few guys to kind of back Coach Cav's philosophy, he never said I only had 5 guys. He always said, I used a small amount or just a few guys too, etc.

If Coach Cav can't handle working with more than 5 guys, then that's a problem. A) either replace Bruce Read with an Assistant O-Line Coach or B) Find a different O-line coach who can handle working with more that 5 guys.

This line is too beat-up and young to work with only 5 guys and its not going to get better. They are not going to get healthy if they cant rest.

Who's Melt? I doubt Cav is that slavishly devoted to his process that he would tank games in order to stay true to "his ways". And I doubt Riley would green light that. I suspect it's more of an issue of enough experienced, game plan ready guys. Conrad has played a bit and Whitaker has been mentioned as next man up-ish. We have three starters in some stage of ankle rehab. The RS frosh apparently aren't ready to play yet and if they are not, it would be idiotic to talk about burning red shirts on the the true frosh. I think this is a case of where there is no option of "in case of emergency, break this glass and play these tackles".
We lost Foster, Farmer ganked an ankle early and our two startiong tackles are gimped. That's 4/5 of our planned starting line. That goes way past contingency planning.

 

[timnsun]

Who's Melt? I doubt Cav is that slavishly devoted to his process that he would tank games in order to stay true to "his ways". And I doubt Riley would green light that. I suspect it's more of an issue of enough experienced, game plan ready guys. Conrad has played a bit and Whitaker has been mentioned as next man up-ish. We have three starters in some stage of ankle rehab. The RS frosh apparently aren't ready to play yet and if they are not, it would be idiotic to talk about burning red shirts on the the true frosh. I think this is a case of where there is no option of "in case of emergency, break this glass and play these tackles".
We lost Foster, Farmer ganked an ankle early and our two startiong tackles are gimped. That's 4/5 of our planned starting line. That goes way past contingency planning.

Good point... 4/5 of our starting line... That mean's he has started 9 players, correct? I wonder, if there weren't any injuries, would he only play 5 every game? Maybe some of the other 4 would see more time in the game if everyone was healthy. Maybe the back ups to the back ups simply aren't anywhere close to being ready.

At the same time, it does appear at times that the starters are very close either... I don't know what the answer is. Maybe Cav needs to play more players, maybe not. Glad I'm not having to make that decision.

 

[Pennsyhusker]

Good point... 4/5 of our starting line... That mean's he has started 9 players, correct? I wonder, if there weren't any injuries, would he only play 5 every game? Maybe some of the other 4 would see more time in the game if everyone was healthy. Maybe the back ups to the back ups simply aren't anywhere close to being ready.

At the same time, it does appear at times that the starters are very close either... I don't know what the answer is. Maybe Cav needs to play more players, maybe not. Glad I'm not having to make that decision.

Milt really liked coach Cav. That is all I need to know

 

[spinner4]

Who's Melt? I doubt Cav is that slavishly devoted to his process that he would tank games in order to stay true to "his ways". And I doubt Riley would green light that. I suspect it's more of an issue of enough experienced, game plan ready guys. Conrad has played a bit and Whitaker has been mentioned as next man up-ish. We have three starters in some stage of ankle rehab. The RS frosh apparently aren't ready to play yet and if they are not, it would be idiotic to talk about burning red shirts on the the true frosh. I think this is a case of where there is no option of "in case of emergency, break this glass and play these tackles".
We lost Foster, Farmer ganked an ankle early and our two startiong tackles are gimped. That's 4/5 of our planned starting line. That goes way past contingency planning.

If your best case at defending coach Cav is my type-o of "melt" vs "milt", then notch that up a win, big fella.

And never did I state that he would tank games my friend. Believe or not but there are people that truly believe that their way is the right way and any other alternative is completely wrong and would cause even worse outcomes. And so they are unwilling to try something new. (See Bo). Coach Cav has been on the record as saying his way is using 5 guys. And before you get me on a ticky-tac technicality, I'm paraphrasing. And yes this was his MO last year, MO thus far this year, & his MO all thru his career. Regardless of injuries. And let's be honest, he's had a pretty unsuccessful coaching history.

And again, I'm saying this guy needs to improve. But I'm sure your right. It's all the players fault.

 

[spinner4]

Milt really liked coach Cav. That is all I need to know

And Tom really liked Bo & Barney Cotton.

And that's all I'm going to say about this topic anymore. It will all work its way out. Hopefully Coach Cav improves and gets it together and I come back next year and eat crow about his coaching. I hope that really happens

 

[GBRhuskers]

Here's what Milton actually stated:

"We did it the same way (as Cavanaugh)," Tenopir said. "We just got ahead in so many games where we had the luxury of playing other kids."

But go watch the 1995 Orange Bowl against Miami, he tells you. "We didn't sub in that baby. We played those five guys the whole length of that ballgame." If it's a tight game, when it comes to your top group, "you better leave their butts in there."

"I remember in '97, we went through almost that entire year with six players, and luckily didn't get anyone hurt or banged up," said Tenopir, sharp as can be in naming off his former players. "Matt Hoskinson was our swing guy. And then later in the year, Adam Julch came along, I rolled him in there a little bit."

But he relied mostly on his top five: Fred Pollack and Eric Anderson at the tackles, Jon Zatechza and Aaron Taylor at the guards, and Josh Heskew at center. Those starters, to Tenopir's recollection, played at least 90 percent of most every game.

"We've always tried to play the best five," Tenopir said. "You don't put kids in just to worry about next year."

http://journalstar.com/sports/huske...cial&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share

 

[StrongArm517]

If you take a minute to remember,,, coach Cav switched up the lineup midseason last year..
we saw a big jump in production after that.

 

[inWV]

Going with the five, with Conrad and Whitaker in reserve and prepped to fill at more than one psn.
http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=211248906

 

[spinner4]

Here's what Milton actually stated:

"We did it the same way (as Cavanaugh)," Tenopir said. "We just got ahead in so many games where we had the luxury of playing other kids."

But go watch the 1995 Orange Bowl against Miami, he tells you. "We didn't sub in that baby. We played those five guys the whole length of that ballgame." If it's a tight game, when it comes to your top group, "you better leave their butts in there."

"I remember in '97, we went through almost that entire year with six players, and luckily didn't get anyone hurt or banged up," said Tenopir, sharp as can be in naming off his former players. "Matt Hoskinson was our swing guy. And then later in the year, Adam Julch came along, I rolled him in there a little bit."

But he relied mostly on his top five: Fred Pollack and Eric Anderson at the tackles, Jon Zatechza and Aaron Taylor at the guards, and Josh Heskew at center. Those starters, to Tenopir's recollection, played at least 90 percent of most every game.

"We've always tried to play the best five," Tenopir said. "You don't put kids in just to worry about next year."

http://journalstar.com/sports/huske...cial&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share

GBRhuskers it's also very difficult to compare Milt to Cav especially when comparing the rotation. that lines talent and health allowed them to run 6 to 7 guys. The current line doesn't appear to be allowing that health or talent wise. Also note Milt only says the orange bowl is when they ran 5. The swing man Ott was hurt.

It's like MLB managers would love to have only 5 SPs all year. Things worked out for the Cubs this year and that's what they did. However the Indians had injuries, had guys who weren't pitching well and have used 9 to 10 guys. You don't pitch a guy whose arms tired, you don't pitch guys who are getting rocked, just because you want to stick with the same 5 all year.

All I'm saying the rest of the staff is no longer on the excuse game. They make adjustments. Their units aren't a problem every week. Even the D-line plays above the O-lines level. No more excuses on Cav. Get it done or be done. great leaders overcome obstacles

 

[TheBeav815]

GBRhuskers it's also very difficult to compare Milt to Cav especially when comparing the rotation. that lines talent and health allowed them to run 6 to 7 guys. The current line doesn't appear to be allowing that health or talent wise. Also note Milt only says the orange bowl is when they ran 5. The swing man Ott was hurt.

It's like MLB managers would love to have only 5 SPs all year. Things worked out for the Cubs this year and that's what they did. However the Indians had injuries, had guys who weren't pitching well and have used 9 to 10 guys. You don't pitch a guy whose arms tired, you don't pitch guys who are getting rocked, just because you want to stick with the same 5 all year.

All I'm saying the rest of the staff is no longer on the excuse game. They make adjustments. Their units aren't a problem every week. Even the D-line plays above the O-lines level. No more excuses on Cav. Get it done or be done. great leaders overcome obstacles

He's pretty consistently said that he doesn't think they have the horses to play more than they do. The fact that some guys got PT late in the year last year does not necessarily make him a liar. You never know when the light is gonna come on for a kid.

Hard to say what's better between a guy who knows what to do but is playing on 1 & 1/2 legs or a healthy guy who is going to totally eff up a few plays.

 

[GBRhuskers]

GBRhuskers it's also very difficult to compare

To be clear, I only interjected with coach Tenopir's quotes and not my opinion.

 

[inWV]

He's pretty consistently said that he doesn't think they have the horses to play more than they do. The fact that some guys got PT late in the year last year does not necessarily make him a liar. You never know when the light is gonna come on for a kid.

Hard to say what's better between a guy who knows what to do but is playing on 1 & 1/2 legs or a healthy guy who is going to totally eff up a few plays.

This. A hurt guy that is assignment sound and will battle all game, but not be as effective has he could be vs. a young guy who will generally get owned during the game and possibly out and out blow a few assignments and possibly expose TA to injury.
If anything, criticize the coaches for not having at least one of the RS frosh ready to step in and pull their weight. Gaylord is listed 3 on the depth chart at tackle. The kid is 6-6 and 300. Is he just not ready to play snaps in the B1G?

 

[dinglefritz]

And Tom really liked Bo & Barney Cotton.

And that's all I'm going to say about this topic anymore. It will all work its way out. Hopefully Coach Cav improves and gets it together and I come back next year and eat crow about his coaching. I hope that really happens

Ummmm no. Tom really liked Barney. Tom defended his hiring decision but don't mix that up with a great fondness for Bo. Bo turned out to be a giant pain in the ass for Tom. IMO, much of Tom's defense of Bo had to do with a reluctance to admit an error AND the knowledge that if Bo went his staff went including Ron, Barney, Garrison, Ross and Jeff.

 

[dinglefritz]

Unless the freshman is clearly beyond his years in physical and mental development, throwing him in the game against Wisky would probably be a disaster. Once again, I am not advocating burning redshirts. I merely raised the issue because Riley did which got my mind pondering possible solutions to our current mess along the offensive line. And the bottom line, sadly, is that there are no solutions. We just need to find a way now to score points as best we can, despite a hobbled line.

Well obviously throwing him in at Wisconsin would potentially be problematic unless he's really ready to roll. Throwing him in late against Purdue to get his feet wet first would have been preferable. Unfortunately the guy most ready to go plays guard. Where we're really hurting is tackle and Farniok isn't ready. Close but not there from what I've heard.

 

[dockentwo]

I'm not sure what you mean by this… I'm just about as positive as they come, and I'm ecstatic that the team won today. It was just a tough day for the Oline. Do you disagree?

I don't know you ; but you are in my top five favorite posters for sure - and always bring it. When I see you posting; I know its a good thing and can be very informative. Keep posting. Tough day for the O-line is right and now after the Purdue game; it seems we need to be more successful vs teams selling out to stop the run and blitz. We do show a lot of run blocking talent; especially over the last ten games or so. The issue is walking wounded; then we end up disrupted and TA can also get out of sync. Coach P on the D-line, believes in rotation. I think we will see more o-line improvement with health / and Langs and HCMR are doing a little more directing in the O-line pit. GBR

 

[spinner4]

Ummmm no. Tom really liked Barney. Tom defended his hiring decision but don't mix that up with a great fondness for Bo. Bo turned out to be a giant pain in the ass for Tom. IMO, much of Tom's defense of Bo had to do with a reluctance to admit an error AND the knowledge that if Bo went his staff went including Ron, Barney, Garrison, Ross and Jeff.

Please provide evidence that Tom didn't like Bo. Or is it you opinion that he didn't like Bo? Which would be something very strange to have an opinion on unless your personal BFFs with both and that's your crew.

A lot has been said about Cav. Good and bad. But nothing good has yet to be proven. The former Husker who should be starting at center right now has a lot to say about him and nothing good. His product on the field is terrible. But so many of you defend him and criticize our players. I don't do that. I criticize the coach. He's the one getting paid. He's the grown ass man with life experience. So many on this board get their panties in a bunch the minute you criticize a coach, but are ok with bashing 20 year olds. GTFO. I'm totally on board with the whole Mike Gundy "leave the players out of it, come after the coaches" mindset. This isn't the NFL. If someone needs to be held accountable, it's the coaches..

Say Coach Cav didn't have the horses this year, why the hell didn't he recruit Juco lineman?

 

[HuskerNorm]

Please provide evidence that Tom didn't like Bo. Or is it you opinion that he didn't like Bo? Which would be something very strange to have an opinion on unless your personal BFFs with both and that's your crew.

Below are comments from Tom Osborne on Bo. Reading between the lines make it relatively clear that Tom Osborne does not think Bo Pelini is a man with good character.

Evidence Tom didn't like Bo:

..“I took a chance on Bo Pelini,” Osborne said. “Bo won a lot of games, but I didn’t really know probably enough about his character, and some of those things jumped up and bit him and bit the program...."

...“There were a lot of good things about him, but he didn’t relate well to the press, and in many cases did not relate well to the fans,” Osborne said. “And so those were the things that were not as good. So, end result I think that it didn’t work out as well as I had hoped.

“So these things are the things that always make hirings hard.”

 

[timnsun]

Please provide evidence that Tom didn't like Bo. Or is it you opinion that he didn't like Bo? Which would be something very strange to have an opinion on unless your personal BFFs with both and that's your crew.

A lot has been said about Cav. Good and bad. But nothing good has yet to be proven. The former Husker who should be starting at center right now has a lot to say about him and nothing good. His product on the field is terrible. But so many of you defend him and criticize our players. I don't do that. I criticize the coach. He's the one getting paid. He's the grown ass man with life experience. So many on this board get their panties in a bunch the minute you criticize a coach, but are ok with bashing 20 year olds. GTFO. I'm totally on board with the whole Mike Gundy "leave the players out of it, come after the coaches" mindset. This isn't the NFL. If someone needs to be held accountable, it's the coaches..

Say Coach Cav didn't have the horses this year, why the hell didn't he recruit Juco lineman?

Several thoughts come to mind why he didn't recruit JC linemen...

First, Thurston was still on the team when the class was signed. That's one more body with ample experience that we would have had today.

Second, before the injuries, we were ok numbers wise... The injuries have obviously made it more difficult to field a solid starting line.

Third, we recruited some outstanding freshmen so that long term, we will be better. Recruiting for our future means the coaches expect to be here at least a little while, and that they are building something.

And finally, maybe he did recruit some Jucos but they never came...

Just some thoughts as to why.

 

[Huskers_Rule]

These boys are struggling.... worse than against Illinois

How many times would Tanner have been sacked the past two games? TA is saving a lot of plays with his legs yet also caused him to lose trust in his line so he sometimes bails early anticipating a break down.

Every time I hear how few sacks we give up I think that's on TA not the oline.

 

[GBRhuskers]

How many times would Tanner have been sacked the past two games? TA is saving a lot of plays with his legs yet also caused him to lose trust in his line so he sometimes bails early anticipating a break down.

Well, one has to assume the "statue QB's" can step up in the pocket, while they're an accurate throwing threat, plus they can also read defenses. All of the three mentioned is something Tommy struggles with. Yes, Tommy's legs have helped the OL immensely, but they've also hurt (in the passing game).

A QB doesn't have to be a "dual threat QB" to be effective in the run, or even scrambling, game.

 

[spinner4]

Below are comments from Tom Osborne on Bo. Reading between the lines make it relatively clear that Tom Osborne does not think Bo Pelini is a man with good character.

Evidence Tom didn't like Bo:

..“I took a chance on Bo Pelini,” Osborne said. “Bo won a lot of games, but I didn’t really know probably enough about his character, and some of those things jumped up and bit him and bit the program...."

...“There were a lot of good things about him, but he didn’t relate well to the press, and in many cases did not relate well to the fans,” Osborne said. “And so those were the things that were not as good. So, end result I think that it didn’t work out as well as I had hoped.

“So these things are the things that always make hirings hard.”

Reading between the lines is an assumption. Nothing more

 

[spinner4]

Several thoughts come to mind why he didn't recruit JC linemen...

First, Thurston was still on the team when the class was signed. That's one more body with ample experience that we would have had today.

Second, before the injuries, we were ok numbers wise... The injuries have obviously made it more difficult to field a solid starting line.

Third, we recruited some outstanding freshmen so that long term, we will be better. Recruiting for our future means the coaches expect to be here at least a little while, and that they are building something.

And finally, maybe he did recruit some Jucos but they never came...

Just some thoughts as to why.

Excuses excuses excuses. #'s were ok but not now with injuries? So chalking this one up to "bad luck" I guess? We haven't had but 1 season ending injury, Foster, who wasn't good enough to play last year. So your saying coach Cav counting that as depth then? A guy who hadn't played was make or break for this roster on being deep?

Where do you work Timnsun? Are you allowed excuses every year at your job? This doesn't start in Lincoln for coach Cav. I'm really done with this subject

And You know me. We went back and forth on Riley and Banker last year. Now this year, I'm on team Riley 100%. Either Cav gets the job done quickly or see ya. That's how it works. He can't make excuses for 5 years or whatever. That's a joke. Situations in coaching are never ideal. Coaches always have to overcome issues with rosters. Unless your Bama. Good ones manage, bad ones make excuses

 

[timnsun]

Excuses excuses excuses. #'s were ok but not now with injuries? So chalking this one up to "bad luck" I guess? We haven't had but 1 season ending injury, Foster, who wasn't good enough to play last year. So your saying coach Cav counting that as depth then? A guy who hadn't played was make or break for this roster on being deep?

Where do you work Timnsun? Are you allowed excuses every year at your job? This doesn't start in Lincoln for coach Cav. I'm really done with this subject

And You know me. We went back and forth on Riley and Banker last year. Now this year, I'm on team Riley 100%. Either Cav gets the job done quickly or see ya. That's how it works. He can't make excuses for 5 years or whatever. That's a joke. Situations in coaching are never ideal. Coaches always have to overcome issues with rosters. Unless your Bama. Good ones manage, bad ones make excuses

We've had our spats, for sure, and I have seen you in a much more positive light towards these coaches.

It wasn't my intention to start something, and I apologize if that's how it came across. You had asked why, so I simply stated some possible reasons, no matter how feeble they may have been. For whatever reason, we didn't go the Juco route. I do believe there was a reason though. To me what makes the most sense is that they are building for the future, not for right now. If so, it's fair to question that strategy. Either that or they thought the redshirted players would be farther along than they are. Now, if they expected the redshirts to be contributing this year and they aren't, that could easily be placed at Cav's feet. He is the one who is supposed to get them ready.

But the reality is, I have no clue why we didn't bring in any Juco talent. What I was offering were some possible reasons why we didn't go that route, but again, I really have no clue.

No ill will in this thread your way... Hopefully we're good.