Steph Curry

[Soda Popinski]

Without being too abrasive, saying "bring back the handcheck" is one of the dumber things you could say. It's like saying, "let DBs contact WRs all over the field and we'll see how good they are." That's not the point of the game, and kudos to the NBA for emphasizing freedom of movement. Basketball is meant to be a finesse sport. There is physicality in the game, sometimes more than there should be, but seeing one of the most skilled players to ever play the game and say, "let him get held, pushed, knocked down, and generally the crap knocked out of him, then tell me he's a great player," is sort of silly when we're talking a sport that, at it's best, is a showcase of skill, athleticism, and finesse.

Basketball is and always will be a finesse sport. The hand check and defensive 3 second rules have turned it into an individual sport instead of a team sport. Nobody runs an offense anymore, it's dribble-drive and kick out. If that's what you want to watch, that's great. Nielsen ratings since '96 have steadily dropped, so I would say few people agree with you.

 

[ThrowBones92]

Is it really the dumber things you can say? Just because you disagree? Laughable... I'd like to see DBs get all over receivers as well. So I guess because I disagree what you said is incredibly dumb and being a great means you need to able to overcome physicality of the game. Good day

I said it was one of the dumber things you could say because a handcheck is a foul. It has always been a foul. They chose to start enforcing it more strictly, but it's always been a foul. So basically what you said was, "let him get fouled by defenders without it being called, and then we will see how good he is." But that's why its a foul in the rule book in the first place. And the NBA realized how bad it was for the game and got rid of it. It shouldn't be a part of basketball, but you want to use it as a measuring stick for greatness in the sport?

 

[ThrowBones92]

Basketball is and always will be a finesse sport. The hand check and defensive 3 second rules have turned it into an individual sport instead of a team sport. Nobody runs an offense anymore, it's dribble-drive and kick out. If that's what you want to watch, that's great. Nielsen ratings since '96 have steadily dropped, so I would say few people agree with you.

Are you saying the Nielsen ratings drop is directly correlated to the hand check being removed from the game and the defensive 3 seconds rule being implemented? I believe there are other factors in play here other than the hand check and defensive 3 seconds rule.

Do you hate the restricted area too?

When you say nobody runs an offense, I think all NBA coaches, assistants, and players would disagree with you. Your understanding of what makes an offense and theirs is likely different. The game has evolved. teams have analytics now that allow them to understand how to take advantage of matchups and they game plan to isolate these advantages. The offenses they run aren't simply about creating open looks or getting the ball in a specific player's hands. They're about getting to specific spots on the floor to create high percentage matchups and looks.

The NBA used to be a post players league, and I'm not just talking about the Center position. Anyone who could play with their back to the basked in the LDB is a post player. Jordan was a great post player. He created a ton of offense in the post. Offenses by and large ran sets through the post. This is not the case anymore. It runs through the guard play on the perimeter and at the elbows. Naturally, to protect the game, the rules need to evolve with the way the game has changed. I think they have done this pretty well.

I think defensive three seconds is great for the game, because it forces teams to understand how to defend and rotate. If you don't know how to do this, you will get exposed. What's more team-oriented than pushing offensive players to your help, and off-ball defenders rotating to defend a teammate's player who has been beaten? Given the size and athleticism on the court, its necessary to keep the game from being bogged down. With these rules in place, we have the opportunity to see some of the best team basketball from Golden State the League has seen in a very long time.

The NBA is a stars/players league. It has been about the individuals for a very long time.

 

[jeans15]

I hate all the pick and roll in the league now. Not enough player movement for my liking. That's why it's hard for me to watch the lower level teams. Can't stand watching bad basketball. It's to frustrating. Even more frustrating than us not running the ball. lol ..I kid.

 

[Soda Popinski]

Are you saying the Nielsen ratings drop is directly correlated to the hand check being removed from the game and the defensive 3 seconds rule being implemented? I believe there are other factors in play here other than the hand check and defensive 3 seconds rule.

Do you hate the restricted area too?

When you say nobody runs an offense, I think all NBA coaches, assistants, and players would disagree with you. Your understanding of what makes an offense and theirs is likely different. The game has evolved. teams have analytics now that allow them to understand how to take advantage of matchups and they game plan to isolate these advantages. The offenses they run aren't simply about creating open looks or getting the ball in a specific player's hands. They're about getting to specific spots on the floor to create high percentage matchups and looks.

The NBA used to be a post players league, and I'm not just talking about the Center position. Anyone who could play with their back to the basked in the LDB is a post player. Jordan was a great post player. He created a ton of offense in the post. Offenses by and large ran sets through the post. This is not the case anymore. It runs through the guard play on the perimeter and at the elbows. Naturally, to protect the game, the rules need to evolve with the way the game has changed. I think they have done this pretty well.

I think defensive three seconds is great for the game, because it forces teams to understand how to defend and rotate. If you don't know how to do this, you will get exposed. What's more team-oriented than pushing offensive players to your help, and off-ball defenders rotating to defend a teammate's player who has been beaten? Given the size and athleticism on the court, its necessary to keep the game from being bogged down. With these rules in place, we have the opportunity to see some of the best team basketball from Golden State the League has seen in a very long time.

The NBA is a stars/players league. It has been about the individuals for a very long time.

IMO those two rule changes have been direct contributing factors to the overall watchability of NBA basketball. We definitely agree on a few things. When I say "run an offense" I guess I mean something that involves both guards and forwards contributing and getting touches. That doesn't mean setting picks and dribbling until you find a favorable matchup.

Also, when you say it has been an individual game for a long time, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The mid-90's seem to be the end of team basketball in the NBA for whatever reason. I have no problem if that's your thing, great. I try and try to watch (maybe it would be easier if we had a team closer) but I keep getting disappointed by the product. Regardless of how many shots Curry makes, I'm bored by guys dribbling, making a quick move and shooting a trey. There is no complexity or team dynamic; it's not interesting to me and the viewership numbers agree.

 

[jteten]

Lotta good ol days talk going on around here. The league is currently populated with more dynamic athletes than ever in the history of the league. The only aspect of the game that has likely taken a hit is the effectiveness of big men in the paint, but for every Ewing and Olajuwan from back in the the day, there is now a Dirk, Cousins, Towns, or Anthony Davis. Big men that can handle the ball, get up and down the floor, and pull from deep. I love the NBA now, just as much as I did in the 80s and 90s. Times change, the game changes. The NFL has went from a running league to a passing league. MLB has evolved as well. If we have watched more of the same year after year, just like any business, the interest would go stagnant.

 

[ThrowBones92]

IMO those two rule changes have been direct contributing factors to the overall watchability of NBA basketball. We definitely agree on a few things. When I say "run an offense" I guess I mean something that involves both guards and forwards contributing and getting touches. That doesn't mean setting picks and dribbling until you find a favorable matchup.

Also, when you say it has been an individual game for a long time, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The mid-90's seem to be the end of team basketball in the NBA for whatever reason. I have no problem if that's your thing, great. I try and try to watch (maybe it would be easier if we had a team closer) but I keep getting disappointed by the product. Regardless of how many shots Curry makes, I'm bored by guys dribbling, making a quick move and shooting a trey. There is no complexity or team dynamic; it's not interesting to me and the viewership numbers agree.

Fair enough, my friend. The things you do not like about the game are similar to the things I do not have a taste for as well. I do not enjoy watching a number of the teams in the league for that reason. I will say my biggest issue is that the regular season is so long that there is very little emphasis on winning individual games until we hit mid-March. That's 4 months of somewhat meaningless outcomes. I watched the Bulls play the Nets in Chicago before Christmas. They didn't play that well, but they could have executed at the end of the game and probably back-doored their way into a win, given how bad the Nets are. But they made bad decisions (like not getting McDermott more touches) and tried to win the game with selfish play. Not appetizing.

I do like to watch the pick and roll when executed well. I think it's a beautiful play set and there are a number of options you can run off of it. Maybe because I loved watching the NBA when Stockton and Malone could pick and roll you all night long and no one could figure out how to stop them. IMO, the problem is all of the players in the league who do not know how to move without the ball. The pick and roll can get you quick buckets and open looks, but it can also get you into your offensive set if the other three players move with intent. I like to see how the defense adjusts to the pick and roll and how offensive players not involved in the pick and roll move to expose the adjustments. Unfortunately, many players don't seem to understand how to do this. Many of them could use more time in college before jumping to the league to learn how to play in some of these offenses.

With that said, I do look forward to May and June. The Playoffs seem to sort out the teams that can play together offensively and get defensive stops from those who cannot.

 

[huskerfan830]

I hate all the pick and roll in the league now. Not enough player movement for my liking. That's why it's hard for me to watch the lower level teams. Can't stand watching bad basketball. It's to frustrating. Even more frustrating than us not running the ball. lol ..I kid.

You hate the pick and roll in ball now because it's not enough movement? Uhhh...... Ok

 

[jeans15]

You hate the pick and roll in ball now because it's not enough movement? Uhhh...... Ok

Not enough people touching the basketball on that play for me. A pick and a shot usually.

It's fine when it's not the primary option on the play. Using the roll man as a facilitator for the backside shot. Or for the lay up if the backside Zone isn't set.

To me it makes it predictable where the shot is going to come from. Also it brings in an extra defender into the play. Teams would be better playing it one on one at times.

It also depends on where the pick is set on the court and what angle on the defender they set the pick.

You never saw Jordan running a pick and roll at the end of games.

 

[tone1017]

Golden state is averaging the most assists per game in 30 years while also getting considerably fewer possessions per game. They have one of the most advanced, beautiful styles of basketball of all time playing against the most sophisticated defenses ever. Sure, every team in this era is not great offensively, the same as any other era. The glory days you remember include a few teams, it's not the 24th best team of that time and the elite of today are as good or better in terms of offensive efficiency and ball movement as any other era.

 

[jeans15]

Golden state is averaging the most assists per game in 30 years while also getting considerably fewer possessions per game. They have one of the most advanced, beautiful styles of basketball of all time playing against the most sophisticated defenses ever. Sure, every team in this era is not great offensively, the same as any other era. The glory days you remember include a few teams, it's not the 24th best team of that time and the elite of today are as good or better in terms of offensive efficiency and ball movement as any other era.

Spurs 2014 and GS yes. Rest of the league does not move the ball like that no way. Not consistenttly at least.

Even the Spurs struggle with it at times, because of new pieces. But the rest of the league is average in terms of consistent good ball movement.

I do think the league is as dynamic at the guard position as its ever been.

I'm also a big fan of the triangle offense.