So that's where he learned to chuck it out there and hope for a catch or penalty. That was a Favre specialty.
Shatel nails it...
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So that's where he learned to chuck it out there and hope for a catch or penalty. That was a Favre specialty.
I was going to say the same thing, and I'm a huge Green Bay fan. The picture with Favre answers a lot of questions haha.
There is a formula that works here. We have seen it work here. Past coaches and players have tried and tried to give the secrets of that fairly simple recipe, but nobody listens. People want to do it their own way. No one should be surprised then that people are going to point to the formula for success every time they fail trying to do it their way. Heck, people are pointing to others in the league having success using our old formula, and yet still there is disbelief that it could work again. Excuses and apologists abound.
Here's the problem. The AD didn't hire David Shaw,Kirk Ferentz or Paul Chryst. If the Oregon AD fires Helfrich and hires Shaw, guess what, the offense won't be anything similar to what they run now. Fans who would get pissed at Shaw because he isn't running "Oregon" offense, are directing their anger in the wrong direction.
If your family wants you to use your annual bonus on a swimming pool and you buy a Porsche, the family shouldn't be pissed at the Porsche because they can't swim in it.
Riley and Langsdorf run their offense, they teach their OLine to block differently than you would like. If, when they are coaching the players they brought in to play, don't get the job done, then bitching at Riley makes sense.
The goal of the OLine is to control the LOS, there are multiple ways to control the LOS. Just because you don't like how Mike Leach coaches offense, doesn't mean his OLine doesn't control the LOS. His teams put up huge offensive numbers, mostly through the air, in less than optimal weather conditions.
This team and program isn't not winning titles because of the offense. The thing the schools you mentioned have in common is defense and not style of offense. As much as you think Alabama is like Wisconsin, they used to be, but now they have smaller OLinemen (relative to what they had before Kiffin) , run a lot of 11 personnel with an RPO QB. The common denominator? Defense
Nebraska's identity has always been offense, Osborne's offense was very effective but Nebraska didn't win national titles until they shored up the defense. Plain and simple.
Why do I feel like we agree....lol
I just think we need to be lean more run than pass. That means you have to practice running more than throwing.
But our QB needs to be able to run a little....Otherwise that gets shutdown against good defenses......we changed college football because of mobile Qbs...hell the blackshirts of the 90s were clowned by Qbs that were mobile....but yes they have to be at least a 60% passer to make us dangerous.
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I disagree. There's a reason coaches like Jim Harbaugh can walk in and have him teams show improve almost instantly. Call it coaching, culture, physical mentality, discipline. All of that is worked on and instilled at practice. How you practice, how you involve the players, mistakes that are allowed to slip by uncorrected, et al.
I believe nothing ever stays the same. You either get better or you get worse. Growth mindset means you can improve. Fixed mindset means you are what you are and that's all you ever will be. Some teams practice better than others and show improvement from the start of the year. Look at Northwestern and Iowa.
Often times, posters on here site a lack of depth and fear of injury for reasons that practices are "soft". Other programs do not eliminate all contact due to fear of injury, but rather cut back on it and shorten certain segments as the year goes on. That's what makes all of the difference. It's a common error coaches make at all levels. You cannot work on fundamentals in the spring and preseason and then basically forget about it. There will be slippage. There will be inconsistency.
Jim Harbaugh is an elite coach, there's not many elite coaches in college football.
When Harbaugh took over, he had the most ESPN top 300 players of any team in the college. More than Alabama, more than Ohio State, more than Florida State; name the school and Michigan had more. It all starts with the Jimmy's and Joe's. If for one second you think Harbaugh would start a Dylan Utter, Ross Dzuris, Sam Hahn, Cole Conrad [although he improved and possibly has a chance], Corey Whitaker, David Knevel, Sam Cotton, Tre Foster, etc and have success, or a "physical offensive mindset", we can stop the discussion right now. I believe Harbaugh is an elite coach too.
Nebraska "showed improvement" last year, but not this. I'm not of the belief Northwestern "showed improvement" like you say. Iowa did, without a doubt from me but no way you'll convince me Northwestern did. This same "improved Northwestern team" struggled with Minnesota, losing by 17 points.
You assume practices are "soft". You also assume other "physical practicing teams" have the same depth issues as Nebraska. It's a simple question, do you want Gates, Foster and Farmer in "tougher practices" knowing if 1 goes down, or re-aggregates an injury, we're back to where we were 4 weeks ago? There's nobody behind them, literally. Do you want Oz in "tougher practices"? Do you want Newby in "tougher practices"? Do you want Alonzo Moore, who was pretty much week to week if he was playing or not in "tougher practices", when he can't even practice more than twice a week in the first place? Do you want Brandon Reilly in "tougher practices"? Westerkamp, DPE, and Morgan sure don't have a problem being physical in "soft practices". Why is that? Because they have a mindset, just like Gates, Foster and to a lesser extent Farmer, that's why. Insert Cethan Carter as well.
More physical practices will not make Dylan Utter better. Same with a half dozen other starters, or major contributors, as I posted earlier in this thread.
Too many of you are taking one games results and act is if the solution is to have "tougher practices". Why wasn't this stated after the Wisconsin game, in 2015 or 2016? Why wasn't this said after the Iowa game in 2015? I know a reason to why, but I look forward to your response.
Nails it?
Wisconsin yes... Iowa No
I'm sorry, but Nebraska will never settle for this... Shatel seems to have a short memory about Iowa
2006 Big Ten –8th 6 7
2007 Big Ten –5th 6 6
2008 Big Ten –4th 9 4
2009 Big Ten –2nd 11 2
2010 Big Ten –4th 8 5
2011 Big Ten Legends 4th 7 6
2012 Big Ten Legends 6th 4 8
2013 Big Ten Legends T–4th 8 5
2014 Big Ten West 4th 7 6
2015 Big Ten West 1st 12 2
2016 Big Ten West 8 4
It is much more simple then Shatel claims.
1. Get Dominate interior players on both sides of the ball
2. Get Top notch athletes to surround them
3. Get a Quarterback that is consistent and smart with the ball
4. Shut up a let these coaches do what they do
5. That means STFU about a new coach until Riley gets his 3 more years. We should see drastic improvements in 2 years when his players are seasoned
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Seems to work okay in Green Bay...most of the time. If it works there, then it can work here.
I don't think it comes down to smashmouth practices to create smashmouth football. Now, you have to have times of physicality in practice. But, from my own experience, the "play how you practice" thing was more about execution and technique and not about physically beating the crap out of yourselves in practice. Physicality in practice is a symptom of players who play with that mindset. You can hold the dogs off all week and unleash them on Saturday and you can get just as physical of play as you would if you let your team tackle to the ground all week.
It comes down to mental tenacity. Iowa wanted to beat the crap out of Nebraska and it showed. There were a few teams we felt that way about when I played, and we played a much more physical, nasty style against those teams because we HATED them for myriad reasons. Nebraska players don't resent Iowa players like I think some of the Iowa players may resent Nebraska. Iowa recruits a lot of local talent (and they do very well with it) while Nebraska's roster is made up of mainly players from all over the country. Doesn't it make sense that the local boys want to show the team made up of "national recruits" that they are better than them? It's the type of feeling that is strong and organic and is not easy to artificially create. It's a genuine disdain for the other team, and I think Iowa has it for Nebraska while Nebraska does not feel it for Iowa. And it needs to change.
The problem I see for Nebraska is that it's not even about the scoreboard and getting tired of buttkickings. Iowa does not get a lot of highly touted recruits. They obviously can play football, otherwise you wouldn't get what they have consistently gotten the last decade. But I strongly believe that they feel they have to prove themselves against the blue blood programs every year, and I think it's a big benefit for their program. Nebraska rarely plays like it feels like it is out to prove something to someone. We had a certain fight about us against Wisconsin after a few weeks of analysts joking about us, and that was refreshing to watch. Players were zoned in vs Wisconsin and it showed, especially on defense.
One other thing - may have been mentioned, but given the lack of depth, if we beat the crap out of each other in practice this year, we wouldn't have anyone left to practice or play given the self-imposed probation Pelini put us on with his roster and scholarship management.
Agreed. When I was in college Boyd's program was unique and made the difference. Now all of his early coaches that worked under him run physical strong-tough-practices and workouts to be tough while retaining speed, flexibility and injury prevention. And they do not look gassed in the first quarter.
I'm simply stating what I think Nebraska needs to do to be successful again. Whether that is with Riley or another coach is irrelevant in my post.
I guess what I'm saying is...if Riley keeps with his philosophy, we won't be winning championships. Go ahead and disagree, that's fine.
Teams like Stanford have given us the blueprint.
Oregon also gave the blueprint. But neither team had the defense to win the title.
I'm SilentCommit and I approved this message.
Count me among the group that thought Nebraska would walk into the B1G and dominate. What have I learned, besides the fact that I'm an assumptive idiot?
- To compete and win in this conference you must have quality depth. It doesn't matter if Purdue and Illinois are on the schedule - your team will be littered with injuries by mid-October.
- Your team must have an identity. Anyone watching should be able to say "this is what Team X does".
- No matter what your offense is, if you can't run the ball in crunch time, you are going to lose games.
Have no illusions: Mike Riley understands all of that, I'm certain.
Never said physical practices were the entire answer. It's bigger than that. Elite coaches take what they have and make them better. As I said before, attention to detail, not overlooking mistakes in practice, there are lots of ways to improve the way they practice. Being more physical is obviously one of them. We have some physical individuals. I see us as more of a finesse team though.
You point out the obvious that we've got guys with talent limitations and there is a lack of depth in key areas. As for "soft" practices, I know what I see on the field. NU football is not consistently more physical than our opponent (insert excuse here). We make too many mental errors-- pre-snap, lack of discipline type, mental toughness type stuff like arguing on the field/showing up teammates after yielding a TD , lack of effort when things aren't going well. That's all systemic. One can either say we've got to do better or sit back and make excuses.
Not one of the elite coaches took over a poor roster such as Nebraska and turned it and round in two years. If you believe different, spell it out in detail as I'm all eyes to read who, when and how. My mind is open to learn something so educate us all how Harbaugh, Meyer and Saban had nothing. I'm a fan of Fisher as well as Swinney too, to a lesser extent though. I think the best you'll be able to do is Stoops, 15 years ago or whatever it was.
You see a finesse team as we have a bunch of guys that are either soft or shouldn't be playing at Nebraska. I've named them, you've yet to respond to any of that, but want all focus on Riley not being Harbaugh [hasn't won anything with his physical teams], Meyer or Saban. Mike isn't at their level, just like 95% of college head coaches aren't at their level.
We weren't as physical as Wisconsin, in 2015 or 2016? We weren't as physical as Iowa in 2015? [2016 is obvious]. It's an overblown topic, based on [possible] speculation about Mark Banker's comments last Friday.
Maybe Banker said it for a reason, outside of what a handful of you think.
I've stated we have to do better, all asepcts from coaches and players, and just repeated it again. By acknowledging that, more than once, doesn't mean one can't acknowledge everything else that is just as important. But instead, I read from you it's "excuses".
The REASON THAT HARBAUGH HAD ALMOST IMMEDIATE SUCCESS AT MICHIGAN IS THAT MICHIGAN HAD BEEN RECRUITING VERY WELL AS IN TOP 10 CLASSES FOR SEVERAL YEARS BEFORE HE GOT THERE. I said it when he was hired. All they needed was a QB and he managed to find one and coach him up. It wasn't the practices. It WAS THE PLAYERS he puts on the field. As Barry Switzer said "it isn't the Xs and Os, its the Jimmies and Joes". Michigans has as much interior line talent as anybody in the country. Harbaugh is a very good coach but he AIN'T COMIN TO NU so get over it. IMO we finally got that kind of talent in our O line class. Hopefully it pays off soon.
I won't open the link because I guarantee that this is Shatel's latest in the "water is wet" trope that he has been on for years.
The Nebraska media largely played mittens with the last staff for 7 years and they turn around here and mislead the fans in such nasty ways.
We won't be great again until we have a great defensive line again. Pretty much all of the best teams dominate on the defensive front. It's sad how the last staff could not use Suh's success to recruit top defensive linemen. You'd think 5-star DTs would have been lining up after developing the most dominant DT in college football history. Unfortunately, the current staff has not been recruiting well at this position either.
I thought that for quite a few years. How in the hell did Pelini not turn that into the best defense in Blackshirt history? I plan on giving Parrella some leeway on his first signing class.
I don't even want Harbaugh as head coach. I just cited him as an example. Yes, Michigan had a lot of talent on board. Harbaugh did a lot more with that talent than the previous coach. Talent makes a huge difference. I believe that as much or more than you do. Where we disagree is the value of practices. I feel that there should be more full speed drills or even some scrimmaging throughout the season.
Global Warming apparently is destroying Football in Nebraska.
Seems to have been a number of prolific Offenses in cold area. 70s Vikings, Buffalo Bills, 80s Bengals.
Weather is an excuse. I can't really remember the last weather affected game in Lincoln...maybe 91 OU in the rain? There was a CU game in the 90s that was in a freezing rain. That's about all I can remember.
Hell, heat seems to be a bigger issue in our home games ...oh Lord...the Warming is real!
I agree. This all comes from Osborne switching offenses in the mid to late 70's and his opinion that running option was a better way to go.
There is just as much full speed and scrimmaging done in Lincoln as there is done at other places. You have bought into the hype that "physical football" is only a mindset. It isn't. You can have our offensive linemen come to practice and hit a cement wall as hard as they can for hours and it wouldn't make them any more physical. It all comes back to talent.
When a talented kid plays with a degree of violence, then you have a special player. As for the complaints about physical practices, the recently passed Uncle Milty stated that Cav's group periods in practice were more rugged than those when he coached.
This year we played one senior at center, one senior replacement at right guard, and a RS junior and RS sophomore at RT. Our best linemen were Gates, Farmer and Foster, all guys in their third year in the program. We played the bulk of the season with six guys. It seems the only guy who didn't experience significant injury was Conrad. The "depth" was Whitaker and some RS frosh.
Going forward, we will get to see whether the guys Cav and Riley have recruited are a true step up in talent. The value of the MASH unit approach we were forced into was that it forced seasoning onto some relatively young guys. Gates, Farmer and Foster have sufficient talent to be part of a solid offensive line. Maybe in another year Knevel and Conrad are more than servicable. What we need is for some of the younger guys to realize that the time is now to make a push to start. Few people knew who Spencer Long was until a week or so before he started his first game. Turns out Spencer had plenty of talent. He also had smarts and a willingness to work. It's not about being "physical", it's about working hard in the offseason and being detailed in practice. I would hope that of the group that includes Barnett, Brokop, Decker, Farniok, Gaylord, Raridon and Wilson, we might find another Spencer Long.
Jaw, so what is it, then? What separates the great from the average? It's not all talent. I have seen Nebraska struggle with physical teams for a long time. I can remember Bo's team, most notably his offensive line, getting whipped by South Carolina's defensive front in the bowl game. Was that only talent? At some point, culture needs to take over. Guys like Gates, Foster, the talented ones with cache/respect on the team need to be the ring leaders in practice, the enforcers in practice and on game day. It's just too inconsistent, you see it every year in the wins and losses. Ups and downs, every year a new excuse. Well, this team just wanted it more....
What I am happy to see with Riley's staff is that the transfer of responsibility back towards the players. There is a chance for the culture to get right but it's going to be getting the right type of players, not just talented ones, to make the leap. I am interested to see Bo's guys finally gone because I think the psycho "father" coddled them in a way. He took all the blame all the time. It's time for a new era, I am cheering Riley on to get the right guys to begin a new culture of Nebraska football
Call me impatient (or something else), but this program is moving way too slow. Other programs hit the reset button, make big-time hires, and recruit like the wind. Some succeed pretty quickly, others take longer or have to hit reset again.
It seems like we're taking baby steps and by the time we learn if we're really making progress, other factors will change.
It seems like we're taking baby steps and by the time we learn if we're really making progress, other factors will change.
It is a little disheartening to see Penn State playing for a conference title just a few years after heavy sanctions. Then again, Bo's recruiting was like a self-imposed sanction.
I think several points have to be answered, in gory detail by those that want "physical practices".
Damon hit on one of them this week with Sipple. First off, are Iowa's practices more physical than NU's? Word is they aren't, so then where does that leave us on our theory of OL play?
The second one might be, even if Riley just said, hey you know, TO knocked the crap out of his guys and they walked through Saturday, let me take that blue print and make that happen....how exactly does he do that in 2016?
A few short weeks ago the "give me more physical practices guy" was "burn the shirts on four true frosh OL" guy because we had barely enough walking wounded to even dress on Saturday.
So Sun-Thursday, who exactly was going to be participating in any Riley led blood bath?
The answer is no one. We had no one. We could barely suit up for the show. People can tell all the stories they want of Harbaugh and Stoops and Saban and Carroll, but there's one common denominator that's being over looked when we talk about 1v1's and physical play in practice....they had loaded rosters full of guys able to do that. We literally do not.
I fully expect the line situation to get better in the coming seasons, but you can't just miraculously pull 15 dudes out of thin air to beat up on each other. Its going to take a little time, which isn't the case at many other position groups where you can get a decent transfer RB to be productive for you and "fix" the position almost immediately.
Damon hit on one of them this week with Sipple. First off, are Iowa's practices more physical than NU's? Word is they aren't, so then where does that leave us on our theory of OL play?
The second one might be, even if Riley just said, hey you know, TO knocked the crap out of his guys and they walked through Saturday, let me take that blue print and make that happen....how exactly does he do that in 2016?
A few short weeks ago the "give me more physical practices guy" was "burn the shirts on four true frosh OL" guy because we had barely enough walking wounded to even dress on Saturday.
So Sun-Thursday, who exactly was going to be participating in any Riley led blood bath?
The answer is no one. We had no one. We could barely suit up for the show. People can tell all the stories they want of Harbaugh and Stoops and Saban and Carroll, but there's one common denominator that's being over looked when we talk about 1v1's and physical play in practice....they had loaded rosters full of guys able to do that. We literally do not.
I fully expect the line situation to get better in the coming seasons, but you can't just miraculously pull 15 dudes out of thin air to beat up on each other. Its going to take a little time, which isn't the case at many other position groups where you can get a decent transfer RB to be productive for you and "fix" the position almost immediately.
If our chief problem is the lines, it will be a decently long rebuild regardless. You have to recruit the kid (and we seem to have a fair number of touted recruits in the pipeline) and then usually redshirt them, bulk them up, etc. Then you roll out a bunch of young guys who generally do ok, but get their lunch eaten by 23 year old men on occasion.
Before you have a "pipeline" if you are building one from basically scratch, it can be Year 3 or 4 essentially before the talent matures enough to play at a consistent level we expect. Next year is Year 3, and most of our talented players will be coming off redshirt, so its takes awhile to be sure.
I honestly don't see a quick fix for the OL/DL, unless folks think we should just quit recruiting some other position group and hope that 3,4,5 JUCO transfers on the OL are just absolute studs for us.
This is it. You have to swing for the fences each year recruiting. There will be some recruiting misses and you won't know which ones those will be until after Year 2 in the program. There will be some like Gates who you feel will play some good ball for you. After four years, you have 15-16 kids in the room. Some of those kids turn out to be practice players. But there should be a 2-deep in there somewhere of some quality. Our problem now, as it seems for other positions during the Pelini era, is too many recruiting misses.
I've always felt like this too. I find myself jealous of schools like Washington that hire Peterson and 1-2 years later are in the National Championship picture.
Yah but we aren't realistic about our chances with these guys.
Meyer said flat out he wasn't coming here for what we did to Solich, whether people believe it was BS or not. He also has ties to Ohio, which means he probably wasn't leaning this way at any future point in time anyway. Harbaugh is a Michigan legacy. Peterson did an interview with SI where he said he was going to be veeeeeeerrrry choosy about his next landing spot and he basically was keeping his eye in the NW. There were several behind the scenes rumors that he was contacted and not interested. Saban isn't leaving Bama for us.
That leaves exactly who as a home run hire for us, among the "been there, done that" coaches? No one. Which was Zatechka's point on several occasions.
The one "home run" coach we had a real run at was Tom Herman if we were willing to go the coordinator route again.
Good points @jflores. Its just a tough pill to swallow watching these other teams rise from the ashes. Even PSU is staring to put it together. Hoping for the best with Riley. I like him a lot.
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