I think our collective obsession with football is ultimately what drives a lot of these decisions, but there is a dollar value associated with each win and loss. College football is big business. In that respect, if any employee provides as much value to the bottom line as we perceive Keith Williams does then the particular business wouldn't matter that much. The reality is that most of us are replaceable at our respective jobs while Williams is much harder to replace.
POLL: Coach Williams, would you retain him?
- Thread starter GBRhuskers
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I think our collective obsession with football is ultimately what drives a lot of these decisions, but there is a dollar value associated with each win and loss. College football is big business. In that respect, if any employee provides as much value to the bottom line as we perceive Keith Williams does then the particular business wouldn't matter that much. The reality is that most of us are replaceable at our respective jobs while Williams is much harder to replace.
If only you were right. I could provide lists here. Ever hear of pre-trial diversion programs ? I have never used an illegal drug; the economy would shut down if they could suddenly jail any that had - where would they put them? There are surely many more than the present prison population ( mart-jane is legal or decriminalized because the legislators gave up and got tired of seeing their own kids and grandkids going to jail. What a world. ).
So the poll presently is running about 20% to fire him ( clap the silver spoons ). Of the 10% undecided and 70% deciding for retention; I would guess at least 70% are judging him with the humanity of saving the man and dealing with the disease - NOT just focused on the football portion. GBR
Doesn't matter if it's football or the real world. Obviously there are exceptions (ie school bus drivers as an example) but IF you do your job well, you'll get a second chance and depending on your type of skills you may get multiple chances. I know some employers that pick up employees from jail that have had multiple DUIs. Good employees. Bad off time decision makers. At least he knows they'll be at wor.k
Nope, to be completely honest, for me it's for football. I'm willing to bet if this happened at any of the traditional powerhouse programs (Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan) they would retain them. If any coach adds that much value to winning on Saturday they would keep them around. Too many people here riding high horses, then they will complain when we don't win like the other blue blood programs around the nation. If he needs help, get it for him, but don't condemn him or you will be looking at him from another sideline somewhere down the road. [/QUOTE]
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Exactly. I know a guy that is a construction superintendent that is good at his job. Shows up, gets stuff done, doesn't complain. One night, he was using a company truck that he shouldn't have been (suspended license), got in a hit in run, while drunk.
So, drunk hit and run on a suspended license in a company vehicle that he should not was not allowed to use - still kept his job. Why? Because good employees get second (and third) chances.
IMO this is a double edged sword. If MR kicks him to the curb it could send a message that he has zero tollerence & will get rid of any player. How will that set with parents. Isn't the coach supposed to be like a parent to these kids. On the flip side he could retain him to show support & say "Hey, I will support all aspects of my TEAM and do my best to help in all aspects". It's a dicey situation and there will be people on both sides of this equation.. IMO, I would keep him, have hard line restrictions
.... or because he had pictures of his boss with two hookers and a quarter pound of coke.
I think parents would be able to distinguish between discipline against a coach (who is a staff member and role model) and disciple of a student/athlete. Also, zero tolerance might be viewed as a very reasonable standard for 3rd offense DUI. If you can tolerate three drunk driving offenses, what message does that send?
If he had the best sales numbers in the region, Best Buy might keep him too, or they could fire him and let him sell refrigerators at Sears-- their call. Either way, the man has to have a job.
Keith Williams coaches football. It's what he does. He's one of the best position coaches in the game and also one of the best recruiters. Schools are swimming in money right now. If NU fired him, Jim Harbaugh would hire him in a heartbeat and get him two personal chauffeurs.
Gary Pinkel of Misery
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...s-says-failed-miserably-role-model-dwi-arrest
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...s-says-failed-miserably-role-model-dwi-arrest
Well the boss is my dad, so I sure hope not....
I hope they keep him. And I care about him as a person and his "problem" just about as much as he cares about me and my problems...close to zero.
I do root for the football team though. He's a dang good coach. As long as his players still respect him and he's still able to get results on the field and recruiting, I want him around.
I do root for the football team though. He's a dang good coach. As long as his players still respect him and he's still able to get results on the field and recruiting, I want him around.
Not only that, but you arguably have more control over Williams' future actions by keeping him on staff with conditions. It gives the AD/HC the power to make him get a driver, to make him go to meetings, to do whatever is needed.
Let's say he does have a problem with drinking. Do you think a guy who gets fired from a great job, goes from the top of the world to the bottom of the barrel literally overnight just might be at risk for a self-destructive binge? I sure do. I'm not the world's foremost expert but it seems to me that the people who try to find their solutions at the bottom of a bottle usually do not become less likely to drink when their life gets worse.
If everyone who ever screwed up was blackballed forever, none of us would have jobs. It's serious what he did, and I hope he never does it again. I think your best shot at making sure that happens is by keeping him around and giving him structure to succeed in that area.
This is basically entirely motivated by football rooting interests. If this happened to that OSU wr coach we're all such big fans of every single one of us would be calling for his head. None of us would say, "well if they kept him on staff it'd help rehabilitate....blah blah blah." It's fine, but it is what it is.
I wasn't the least bit outraged when this happened and I'm still not, and I hope he is retained, and will go so far as to say if you want him fired then go root for another team. We've all got our flaws, and my glass house is way to big and nice and furnished just the way I like it for me to risk tossing a rock his way and breaking it. Jeff
Absolutely not true. I would not call for anyone's head for a DUI unless something catastrophic happened (death or dismemberment). Otherwise, you could not be more off base.
I'm not gonna tell you I'd be sad if OSU fired him, but in general I want people to get the help they need when they need it. If he's a positive mentor for the young men he coaches and he's helping them be better people, then let them do as they see fit for the equivalent offense.
Competition is definitely part of it. If Williams sucked as a coach and a recruiter would I hope as much he stayed on staff? Probably not. But that's more to do with job performance than personal life. When they let Hughes go I felt bad for him that it had to happen, but I was glad they were addressing an underperforming area. But I wasn't rooting for his life off the field to go badly because I didn't like the job he did coaching D-line.
I picked "no".
Is Keith Williams going to be an asset or liability in the future? Nobody can say for certain. I see it as a guaranteed liability in the short term.
I'm guessing that people are forgetting that fall camp is going and our season is starting in less than 3 weeks. Only the most positive of spins is gonna say that Keith Williams getting drunk, running into a car, and getting arrested in fall camp is a "good" thing and that he's acting in a way that puts the team and program first.
3 DUI's. Not one DUI, not just one singular momentary lapse of judgement. The popularized "read between the lines" scenario is going this way, Keith Williams has only drank liquor 3 times in his adult life and through happenstance of bad luck he got arrested...every...single...time. Well, I'll give you an A+ for wishful thinking if you want to believe that.
I don't hate Keith Williams. I don't hate people with addictions, even though that doesn't apply to Keith Williams because he's only drank 3 times in his adult life. If he has some demons he can't deal with in an unaltered state, he clearly needs to get help. He can get that help whether he's with the program or no longer with the program.
What do you expect of a coach for OUR University of Nebraska? I expect them to be responsible, good role models, and that they conduct themselves in a manner that reflects well on OUR University of Nebraska. That's not Keith Williams.
Is Keith Williams going to be an asset or liability in the future? Nobody can say for certain. I see it as a guaranteed liability in the short term.
I'm guessing that people are forgetting that fall camp is going and our season is starting in less than 3 weeks. Only the most positive of spins is gonna say that Keith Williams getting drunk, running into a car, and getting arrested in fall camp is a "good" thing and that he's acting in a way that puts the team and program first.
3 DUI's. Not one DUI, not just one singular momentary lapse of judgement. The popularized "read between the lines" scenario is going this way, Keith Williams has only drank liquor 3 times in his adult life and through happenstance of bad luck he got arrested...every...single...time. Well, I'll give you an A+ for wishful thinking if you want to believe that.
I don't hate Keith Williams. I don't hate people with addictions, even though that doesn't apply to Keith Williams because he's only drank 3 times in his adult life. If he has some demons he can't deal with in an unaltered state, he clearly needs to get help. He can get that help whether he's with the program or no longer with the program.
What do you expect of a coach for OUR University of Nebraska? I expect them to be responsible, good role models, and that they conduct themselves in a manner that reflects well on OUR University of Nebraska. That's not Keith Williams.
Expand on that no vote. You're talking about the short term cost, complete this sentence for me: "By keeping Keith Williams on staff, Nebraska will stand to lose ____________"
I'm not talking about games, obviously. But they lose what? Respect? Recruits? Something else?
Don't know where anybody here has said he has only drank 3 times in his life, even reading between the lines... So stop acting as if people have been suggesting that. I know full well you are using sarcasm, but it only works if others have suggested that, which has not happened.
I don't have a problem with your last paragraph. If you think he should be gone, I can't argue against that. He screwed up and may have to pay the price for that. But I think you have gone overboard suggesting that some posters believe he has only gotten drunk 3 times in your life. If you believe some posters believe that, well, I'll give you an A+ for wishful thinking.
Curious if anyone feels different now that they have had some time to digest things?
I would change my vote from Undecided to No.
The more I think about it, and using Mike's own words, what is the right thing to do, not only for KW, but also the University, and I think that is to let him go and move on.
I would change my vote from Undecided to No.
The more I think about it, and using Mike's own words, what is the right thing to do, not only for KW, but also the University, and I think that is to let him go and move on.
I never thought I would miss debating the merits of TA based on a 3/8 w/ 2 ints 7-on-7 performance in early August but here we are.
I voted keep him, but frankly I'm fine with either outcome. Since he didn't hurt anyone we have the luxury of trying to help him while retaining the benefit of his coaching prowess.
On the other hand it was his 3rd DUI, and he's a risk to himself and others moving forward that UNL doesn't have to take. It will take a very real commitment from him to be able to un-hyprocritically be a mentor again.
Yep, glad I'm not making the call.
On the other hand it was his 3rd DUI, and he's a risk to himself and others moving forward that UNL doesn't have to take. It will take a very real commitment from him to be able to un-hyprocritically be a mentor again.
Yep, glad I'm not making the call.
His level if recruiting could be affected by this incident. If the university does not set boundaries that are reasonable but have real meaning, it is condoning an act that is detrimental to Williams and Nebraska. He needs help. He should be required to address the problem before active contact with the team or recruits. This would demonstrate the what the University really stands for.
At the end of the day, this decision will come down to the impact on the University and the football program. This isn't about caring about the individual, nor is it about having morals simply because it's the right thing to do. Star performers have always and will always get longer leashes. And I see no problem with that. The people who don't like to hear that are those who are not star performers.
He will be retained unless the University sees longer term damaging impact based on this decision, and I don't see that as realistic.
He will be retained unless the University sees longer term damaging impact based on this decision, and I don't see that as realistic.
99% of the vitriol directed toward the OSU coach would be based on rooting interests, because there would be none and there is already a bit of a rivalry in place, meaning that very few would give the guy the benefit of the doubt. (As I'm sure many OSU fans are doing to KW right now.) Using that as an example doesn't at all suggest we'd be 'objective' in that case and we cannot be here.
That said, it's also disingenuous to insist that people are incapable of looking at an issue objectively. I have no trouble acknowledging that my interest in the team has an effect on the outcome I hope for, but that doesn't make me incapable of reserving judgment, or exercising caution when doing so, and letting and trusting those who are closer to the situation to make the best decision. That has been my stance throughout, and the stance of many others. I don't see how that is clouded by rooting interests at all. Sure, a very few have said something to the effect of 'no big deal, winning trumps all.' And quite a few more have said he should be fired, no exceptions. But between these two extremes there have been a lot of thoughtful and concerned comments that take the gravity of the situation into account.
I strongly disagree that Nebraska should move on. Coach needs help, and has represented this University in the greatest ways during his time in Lincoln - outside of the other night in Lincoln. I will understand if he's let go, but there's no way I can get behind just moving on. We're better than that.
Come on, you really can't "move on"...don't you think that is just a bit over the top and I am not talking about the great Sly Stallone movie of the same name.
Are you also still "mourning" the loss of SF?
I have no idea how you meant it as you didn't specify. You were short and to the point which allows an open interpretation. It seemed clear to me what you meant hence the response.
If you want to talk about the loss of Sam Foltz, feel free to bump that thread and tag me in whatever you want to discuss.
You said you can't "get behind just moving on" if the coach is retained.
I am guessing that you can and will, don't you think? Just seems sort of dramatic. I am sure you will be just fine.
If the University moves on, with no support offered to help him, I won't move on. I will voice my concern of the decision with as many people as I can within the system. That's how I've operated for a number or years and it's not going to change.
There's nothing "dramatic" regarding sharing an opinion that the University should offer as much assistance as possible to help him.
So, you are going to email people at the University about it? You will try and schedule meetings with them so you can voice your concern?
That's a fair opinion.. I agree that he needs help, but I differ in how you define helping him. The best thing in my opinion is to fire him. If you retain him, you run the risk of enabling him. Everyone is different, but the tough love side of me says you do him no long term favors by letting him keep his job. It's ok to have a different opinion on it.
What I mean by helping him and not moving on doesn't involve retaining him. I would help him regardless if he's retained or let go. Help and not move on as in, give him all the support that's needed for him to better himself. Regardless if he's kept at Nebraska. All bets are off if he so chooses to decline it and accept a position elsewhere.
Your different opinion comment is strange, considering the misunderstanding.
Yep, cause losing a job never caused someone to have a drinking problem or increase their drinking.
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