Pats-Broncos

[19Football19]

I'll wait until you can come up with a coherent argument that doesn't beg the question. No thanks.

It wasn't cold. Get over it. Brady has already had the red carpet treatment being with BB. I guess you flip that coin and make the ideal situation for every game??? Brady shouldn't have lost to Miami. Yes THE Miami dolphins. Or was it too warm? He completed one call of 12 yards to Gronk. Just win that game and you have home field. Miami???? I'll wait

 

[CC_Lemming]

Maybe he freezes up when he plays the Manning's late in the playoffs or the Super Bowl. Whatever the reason, both Manning's have had enough success against him in crunch time you cannot just automatically declare Brady the winner if the temp dropped. I don't see how that could possible make Denver's defense worse, which was in his business all dang day. Temp wouldn't have changed that...and aren't you the same guy who just said "All this talk about conspiracies, refs, holding, intentional grounding and what not is so asinine and only detracts from how great the game was" and now you're saying you just needed better (ie-worse) weather and you automatically know Denver would have lost? Perhaps Brady would have gotten beat up even worse with worse weather. Brady is lucky the weather was decent, favored him and his offense if you ask me.

No, no, and resoundingly no. I never used the weather as an excuse for the loss, and thus never used it or intended it to detract from the game that was played.

Your bringing in Eli is completely besides the point and irrelevant. We are talking about Peyton's performance in adverse conditions and Brady's performance in adverse conditions.

Feel free to research Brady's record in such conditions if you like, I don't have time to reproduce them. So you can either take me at my word or not, it is uncontroversial that Brady is great in bad conditions and Peyton, on the other hand, is not.

That is what I based my judgment off of, not the defenses ability or inability to get to Brady in adverse conditions. Again, a different point, but one that is directly relevant, since it responds to the initial premise.

My point was that Manning could not have thrown the ball all that effectively if there were a blizzard yesterday. As a prediction, that claim is by definition defeasible.

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

"by definition feasible" is a lot different than automatically declaring Brady the winner if weather was worse. You just said you could automatically declare him the winner, that you know he would have won. Now you're saying it's at least feasible. I still say he'd have gotten his ass kicked even worse if the weather was worse. Manning threw for a whopping 176 yards, so it isn't like that was going to dip that much. I am betting Brady's stats would have been affected a lot more.

 

[CC_Lemming]

"by definition feasible" is a lot different than automatically declaring Brady the winner if weather was worse. You just said you could automatically declare him the winner, that you know he would have won. Now you're saying it's at least feasible. I still say he'd have gotten his ass kicked even worse if the weather was worse. Manning threw for a whopping 176 yards, so it isn't like that was going to dip that much. I am betting Brady's stats would have been affected a lot more.

By pointing out the prediction is by its nature defeasible I'm giving you or anyone the floor to disagree with it. You're right, it's different than what I initially said, but it's only a lot different if you're assuming I take myself to be God and know the outcome of contingent things before they occur. (I don't.) I made that claim in a discussion where someone claimed Manning is way better, so I made a strong claim that supported the opposite.

My point was that Manning plays poorly in bad conditions, Brady plays great, and from that alone I predict they would have lost. Of course that neglects a bunch of other factors, and you're justified in thinking the weather could have made Denver's D more effective. But - and this is my point - if you look at Brady's performance in bad weather, I don't know why anyone would draw that inference. (The natural inference to draw is that, unless Brady has only played bad defenses in crappy weather (possible, but I'm not aware of his), is that it affects a defense more than Brady.)

So we are only going to have a legitimate disagreement, from where I stand, if you present facts that show a) Brady is not good in bad weather, b) Peyton is better than I am giving him credit for in bad weather, or, as we now seem to be heading, c) reasons for thinking a good defense would neutralize Brady more than the bad weather would neutralize a good defense.

 

[CC_Lemming]

http://nypost.com/2015/01/24/the-stats-when-conditions-get-bad-brady-doesnt-get-worse/

Here is an article. It resoundingly backs up my basic premise that Brady is great in bad weather, and Peyton not. Unfortunately for me, and while I didn't double-check, it seems Brady only played one really good defense in cold weather and beat them (based off my memory, the Jets in 2010). So, as far as I'm concerned, you're free to believe that the Broncos would have pressured Brady every bit as much and he still would have struggled.

 

[HuskerRick]

It was a great game. All this talk about conspiracies, refs, holding, intentional grounding and what not is so asinine and only detracts from how great the game was. I say that as a die hard Patriots fan. Obviously disappointed in the outcome, but it was one of the best games I've seen in years. Well coached and executed, great defense against a great offense. The Broncos D had the upper hand and forced critical mistakes. That and a missed extra point were the difference in the game. The refs played a minimal role (outside ruling the lateral a fumble), and that is a large part of what made it so great. Brady, as usual, said as much in his post-game press conference. I know its popular to tear him down at every opportunity, but he gave all the credit to the Broncos defense, their ability to generate pressure, and credit to Peyton and the offense for capitalizing at critical moments - as he should have.

Wasn't asinine by the way, good games are ruined, when refs let a team play outside the rules, that's what is truly asinine.