OT: Tesla legislation in Nebraska

[saluno22]

Deregulate as much as possible, dealers included, but Tesla receices massive govt subsidies, credits, and mandates. Tesla only exists because of the government subsidies. They should all be cancelled. Including all subsidies for wind power, solar, oil, nat gas, and coal.

And subsidies for crops and land?

Let's not ignore the subsidies the oil, gas, and coal industries receive.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/10/6/16428458/us-energy-subsidies

Edit: I'm not saying I want to pay $8/gallon or more for gas. Just pointing out that costs have been made more "manageable" to consumers by distributing much of its cost across tax payers to give a lower apparent cost at the pump. The problem I have is when people act like the fossil fuel industry hasn't been propped up and instead say that alternative energy sectors are unfairly aided by government assistance.

 

[TribecaHusker]

I wouldn't worry about it, Tesla will be going bankrupt real soon. Then those cars will be worthless.

Noteworthy dumb post. Suspect you would have said the same about the lightbulb a century ago. News to you: the globe isn’t flat!

 

[TribecaHusker]

Deregulate as much as possible, dealers included, but Tesla receices massive govt subsidies, credits, and mandates. Tesla only exists because of the government subsidies. They should all be cancelled. Including all subsidies for wind power, solar, oil, nat gas, and coal.

Yes, let’s turn our lives over to the oil companies. Maybe we can fire oil barrels to the space station to eliminate it’s “subsidized” reliance on solar power.

 

[Baxter48]

Let's not ignore the subsidies the oil, gas, and coal industries receive.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/10/6/16428458/us-energy-subsidies

Edit: I'm not saying I want to pay $8/gallon or more for gas. Just pointing out that costs have been made more "manageable" to consumers by distributing much of its cost across tax payers to give a lower apparent cost at the pump. The problem I have is when people act like the fossil fuel industry hasn't been propped up and instead say that alternative energy sectors are unfairly aided by government assistance.

Really what isn't subsidized except religions, television networks, airlines,agricultural,public schools,auto industry, telephone and of course Obamacare. Look at small town America who isn't effected by some type of government funding!!! Even the bigger cities I venture to say we'd all be surprised

 

[hddude55]

Any chance of returning to the original subject before the thread is locked?

 

[litespeedhuskerfan]

Interesting this discussion would come up, I was just having it with my son who is about to buy his first car. Normally, I'm all for gov't staying out of this kind of thing, the list of bad investments that left tax payers on the hook is endless, our gov't sucks at picking winners, BUT...We're dealing with a finite power source in coal and oil. There's only so much of it, and if we wait long enough, there won't be enough time to develop something to replace it, and we're addicted to our power now. I'm hopeful the gov't gets something, and hopefully everything, back, if and or when Tesla turns profitable. If that's the case, then we need to bite this bullet, if it isn't the case, I can still make the argument we need to bite this bullet.

 

[Jimmy Frank]

Jesus is God the Son, so therefore could make whatever He wanted, so therefore no need for money. He was asked for money once and told Peter??? to look for a fish and open its mouth and there was a gold coin, I believe it was for a tithe???

God is not against profit, but he is against scales with false weights, in other words cheating.

So he’s not a fan of the SEC then.

 

[Kleitusbpn]

And subsidies for crops and land?

...are a misnomer. If you want higher prices and fairly significantly higher prices at that, feel free to remove crop subsidies.

They basically gave farmers security in return for lower prices. Removing the subidies would roil the markets and 2007/2008 would happen every several years instead of occasionally and the average price due to that volatility would be much higher.

 

[saluno22]

...are a misnomer. If you want higher prices and fairly significantly higher prices at that, feel free to remove crop subsidies.

They basically gave farmers security in return for lower prices. Removing the subidies would roil the markets and 2007/2008 would happen every several years instead of occasionally and the average price due to that volatility would be much higher.

I think most consumers are for lower (or at least stable) prices, but many find frustration when subsidies are exploited at a corporate level to foster monopolies, duopolies, etc., and create a barrier to entry for newer companies. Not saying right or wrong, it's just the way it is. This isn't limited to only farming, but it is a great example.

I'll have to look up the exact episodes later if I have time, but there are a few podcasts out there that discuss this as it relates to the Commerce Clause in the Constitution. I want to say this is what to look for...
- Radiolab Presents: More Perfect "One Nation, Under Money"
- What Trump Can Teach Us About Con Law "The Commerce Clause". There's also an interesting one in this series called "The Spending Clause" that talks about the degree to which the federal government can coerce state governments (for example, raising the minimum drinking age and withholding highway funding for states that don't comply).
- There might be a Planet Money episode as well.

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

And subsidies for crops and land?

get rid of ethanol subsidies and for crops.

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

I don't own a Tesla - but even if the company went bankrupt, why would the cars suddenly be worthless?

I don't own a Hummer or a Saab either - but if I did, i could still drive them even though the companies are no longer around.

Unlike Hummer and Saab, only Tesla can service these cars, not locally trained dealers and shops.

 

[schuele]

Unlike Hummer and Saab, only Tesla can service these cars, not locally trained dealers and shops.

So if Tesla goes bankrupt, will the people who are trained in servicing a Tesla disappear off the face of the Earth, or will they just be forbidden from working on a Tesla ever again?

 

[jay-cheese]

Nebraska needs to get its %#@ together on this. If other existing dealers want to sell online direct than do (oh wait, they already do...). Just the last gasps of change before the old model finally gets updated....

GBR

 

[Baxter48]

Unlike Hummer and Saab, only Tesla can service these cars, not locally trained dealers and shops.

Another thing to look at is EMS in case of a accident your talking about a whole new ballgame if the fire department isn't trained properly on electric cars they could not only endanger themselves but also the occupants in the car

 

[cornhustler]

globe isn’t flat

 

[saluno22]

Another thing to look at is EMS in case of a accident your talking about a whole new ballgame if the fire department isn't trained properly on electric cars they could not only endanger themselves but also the occupants in the car

I don't know if there is a car equivalent for electric vehicles, but there are code requirements for rapid shutdown and other readily-available disconnect means when photovoltaic panels are installed on buildings for this very reason.

 

[Bugeater]

UNL cutting $9.2 million across the school operating spectrum and someone’s worried about Tesla? Sheesh.

 

[Baxter48]

Looks like real and spectacular

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

Another thing to look at is EMS in case of a accident your talking about a whole new ballgame if the fire department isn't trained properly on electric cars they could not only endanger themselves but also the occupants in the car

Yep, just a small collision will these Teslas into missle launchers, the batteries exploding projectiles. Even a lite fender bender will make one think of getting a whole new battery pack replacement, which is another $35k.

 

[ExxHusker]

Yep, just a small collision will these Teslas into missle launchers, the batteries exploding projectiles. Even a lite fender bender will make one think of getting a whole new battery pack replacement, which is another $35k.

I haven’t seen any data that indicates small collisions result in needing to replace the cars. Of course whether it is a tank full of mogas or fully charged battery there is risk. But everything I have seen indicates the Tesla is safer than ICE’s.

I do know that the general population isn’t as knowledgeable about EV’s and the risks. The Tesla has a high voltage system and a standard low voltage system. The high voltage system is something that First Responders need to be trained to deal with for sure.

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

I haven’t seen any data that indicates small collisions result in needing to replace the cars. Of course whether it is a tank full of mogas or fully charged battery there is risk. But everything I have seen indicates the Tesla is safer than ICE’s.

I do know that the general population isn’t as knowledgeable about EV’s and the risks. The Tesla has a high voltage system and a standard low voltage system. The high voltage system is something that First Responders need to be trained to deal with for sure.

Here's an article, it took 35 fireman to respond to just one Tesla crash into a highway side rail.

https://electrek.co/2017/10/18/tesla-model-s-fire-high-speed-crash-video-impressive-operation/

 

[ExxHusker]

Interesting video. High speed crash into concrete barrier and she “somehow walked away”. Wasn’t a small fender bender.

But high voltage batteries are different than gasoline no doubt.

 

[hddude55]

Any reason you guys who want remake the world can't start threads for that purpose? This thread is to get views on Nebraska allowing direct sales of Teslas in Nebraska. If I didn't know better I'd think some of you were car dealers trying to change the subject

 

[little a]

Any reason you guys who want remake the world can't start threads for that purpose? This thread is to get views on Nebraska allowing direct sales of Teslas in Nebraska. If I didn't know better I'd think some of you were car dealers trying to change the subject

We haven’t even talked about the biggest threat to humanity....... AI. I just read the book “Our last invention” by James Barrat, basically we’re all f$cked

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

Interesting video. High speed crash into concrete barrier and she “somehow walked away”. Wasn’t a small fender bender.

But high voltage batteries are different than gasoline no doubt.

"She walked away" so the crash wasn't that bad, but the car is a major problem after any collision.

 

[redfanusa]

You can't throw a stone without hitting a Tesla in Austin. They are safe, well-built cars, and I have never heard anything about their batteries exploding or anything else (unlike gasoline, which actually is flammable). Most hybrid vehicles require first responders to have appropriate training, as the wheels can unexpectedly move.

The "Big Three" automakers had no problem selling dealerships to anybody with cash over the last 100 years. It's not Tesla's fault everyone hates that business model. GM or Ford can buy back the dealerships and move to a direct-sales model any time they like.

If I had the cash I'd trade in my Toyota for a Tesla Model X in a heartbeat. Combined with a Tesla solar roof in Texas, I could be totally off the grid.

 

[gw2kpro]

Tesla isn't going to go under. That dude just prints money.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-in-flamethrowers-in-four-days-idUSKBN1FL544

Just made $10 million on the side in 4 days by getting people to pay $500 a pop prepurchasing "flamethrowers" -- er -- weedburners

 

[WestCoastCornhusker2]

Tesla isn't going to go under. That dude just prints money.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-in-flamethrowers-in-four-days-idUSKBN1FL544

Just made $10 million on the side in 4 days by getting people to pay $500 a pop prepurchasing "flamethrowers" -- er -- weedburners

$10 million in revenue not profits, any ways his companies have never made more than a dime. Instead, they burn billions.

 

[NikkiSixx]

I'm all for deregulation. Let the true open market decide the winners and losers based on their merits, not what some lawmaker or judge deems legitimate.

I never saw many Teslas in Omaha, but down here in West Palm Beach, they are all over the place.

 

[f00tball_fan]

Whoever thinks capitalism means free is an idiot...capitalism means competition, and inevitably conflict between parties leads to a victor that is stronger than when the conflict began and is more likely to win the next conflict, therefore becoming stronger. That is why capitalism ALWAYS lead to monopolies, and then a government system has to come in and past antitrust and monopoly laws to control capitalism.

You need to go back to economics 101.

Capitalism almost NEVER leads to monopolies. The only true monopoly is one backed by the force of government.

And in a case where capitalism creates a monopoly, the only thing it would mean under the principles of capitalism is that it is providing a superior product at a superior price.

 

[f00tball_fan]

I would appreciate opinions on allowing Tesla in Nebraska or not — and also am interested to hear if anyone has reached out to his/her legislator to express an opinion. I don’t think we can possibly do justice to a broader debate of our economic and political systems. Of course you are free to take this thread anywhere you choose.

I don't understand who would support "not allowing" Tesla in Nebraska. Or anywhere.

If the market wants Tesla in Nebraska then Tesla should be in Nebraska.

 

[f00tball_fan]

I never said anything about deists or the founding of America. It was funny to me he used a bread analogy, given Jesus gave away all the bread he had and more, for free. Under the tenents of capitalism (supply and demand) Jesus should have been charging through the nose.

Capitalism is an economic system, not a guide for how to live your personal life.

 

[Bugeater]

Alright, we’ll take the Kia’s and the Hyundai’s, but we don’t want the Tesla’s.

 

[NikkiSixx]

Something I want to point out. (haven't read all the replies)

Generally, in any market there are usually 2 dominant, sometimes 3 main players in any given industry.

Ford, Chevy, Dodge (truck market)
AT&T, Verizon, Sprint (cellular)
Burger King, McDonalds, Wendy's (you get the idea)

What I have described is just the American market. There are big players across the globe, where this 2-3 company thing is repeated in Asia, Europe, Latin America, etc.

So with globalization, these big players are all in a race to become one of the big 2-3 in a given industry, Globally.

I'm not saying Tesla will be one of the major car manufacturers, but locking out an American company like Tesla is the worst kind of thing we could do to support companies here at home.

If we start thinking about things from a global perspective, I'd rather support Tesla, who has meaningful jobs here in this country over the local dealership network that provides some service jobs, but doesn't actually add value to anything we do as a nation.

 

[Solana Beach Husker]

Many states including NE ban direct sales of motor vehicles. Auto dealers typically argue they provide a better sales and service experience. I think most customers would laugh at that argument, which explains why so many of us use independent mechanics post-warranty and buy with Web pricing.

But they also often argue that they will go away and local economies will be ruined, and therefore need to be protected from direct sales competition. Certainly Amazon has caused a lot of stores and malls to be stressed if not flat out closed. So should state legislators have blocked Amazon from selling in their states?

Of course I think we’d pretty naive if we didn’t understand the bans are mostly pure power politics - money talks, loudly.

I honestly don't think the lobbying is from auto-dealers...I actually think it comes more directly from automakers. New automobile prices would plummet in a direct sale environment, which would kill the auto-industry, at least kill their profits. Forcing dealerships to sell new cars at a certain price, while giving almost nothing to dealers for new sales is a real boon for the auto-makers. Auto-dealers kill price competition because auto-makers have leverage on where their new cars go, and without new shiny cars, a dealer becomes another weird wally.

 

[hddude55]

I honestly don't think the lobbying is from auto-dealers...I actually think it comes more directly from automakers. New automobile prices would plummet in a direct sale environment, which would kill the auto-industry, at least kill their profits. Forcing dealerships to sell new cars at a certain price, while giving almost nothing to dealers for new sales is a real boon for the auto-makers. Auto-dealers kill price competition because auto-makers have leverage on where their new cars go, and without new shiny cars, a dealer becomes another weird wally.[/QUOT

I’ve seen reports in various states of opposition from both manufacturers and state auto dealer organizations. For example, in my state the AZ Automobile Dealers Assn sued to block Tesla and I believe GM has worked hard to keep them out of Michigan.

 

[Nebraskakid555]

In another thread here about the experience of buying cars from dealerships, I mentioned the fact I own a couple Teslas and am admittedly a fan of their cars and their direct sales model. Here in AZ ,Tesla’s two “stores” are both in Scottsdale courtesy of one judge’s ruling allowing them there. However, there is also a service and car delivery site in Tempe. But the car dealers’ deep pockets have done a good job of blocking state legislation to fully open up the state.

I noticed a bill is about to be introduced in the Nebraska Legislature to allow Tesla in Nebraska (if it hasn’t already been introduced). Tesla will face huge opposition from the powerful lobbyists for car dealers. I realize lots of you work for dealerships, have family that do so or want to protect a perceived threat to your local economies. But what I am simply interested in learning is whether you support the current ban, and either way, whether or not you have made your opinion known to your state legislator. If it matters to you, you should let them know although I realize your voice may not carry the weight of lobbyist money — that’s just our system.

Huge dlrship in Portland, Ore, with plenty of charging systems , at stores, eating establishments, etc. Plenty of Tesla's
being driven. No problems.

 

[CameronKrazie86]

$10 million in revenue not profits, any ways his companies have never made more than a dime. Instead, they burn billions.

You seem bitter. Was it actually your Tesla Roadster on the SpaceX rocket or something?